(Topic ID: 68804)

Big Thank YOU to RICK and PLANITARY PINBALL for the MM REMAKE


By musketd

5 years ago



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  • 173 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Incognito
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There are 173 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 5 years ago

I can't quote on my phone but wanted to point out how important words are when used and when left out.

I KNOW this was not PPS intent in his post but I thought it was funny reading "if the project were to fall apart for any reason,we are doing what we can do to keep the customer getting stuck with the tab."

that just doesn't sound very reassuring!

#152 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It must have something to do with the shipper. I contacted my distrib and he had never heard of this before.

Could be. Could also be the credit card company.

Either way, it sucks but a lot of states are cracking down on use tax to bring in more revenue. Someone buying a NIB pinball machine from out of state is a perfect target.

#153 5 years ago

I'm sure anything I say will be pulled in all directions. We know most of the details from the 'bad' situations with people holding money, etc. We are pulling in all of the deposits which we have in one bank account. We are also working with a well capitalized company. In addition, we are intent on keeping any of our distributors aligned on the deposits, the retail price (as best we can influence that), etc. That is what was meant.

#154 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I'm sure anything I say will be pulled in all directions. We know most of the details from the 'bad' situations with people holding money, etc. We are pulling in all of the deposits which we have in one bank account. We are also working with a well capitalized company. In addition, we are intent on keeping any of our distributors aligned on the deposits, the retail price (as best we can influence that), etc. That is what was meant.

Rick you are your partner have such a solid reputation in this industry that I don't think anyone is even questioning this aspect of the remake. But if you really wanted to keep things above-board setting a project "drop dead" date and sticking to it would go a long way toward rinsing any bad tastes out of folk's mouths from the first (and still ongoing) debacle which was MMR #1. Basically, if we haven't delivered MMR #2 Serial #0001 by X date the project is cancelled and the monies are returned.

#155 5 years ago

And why on earth would that be a good thing ... that would insure that nothing happens as committments for parts, etc happens in waves, so we go spend $1M and if the project lags by a week because a supplier provides a part that is made wrong and it delays things, then we just throw the money and just cancel the project ... I don't think there is a sour taste in many's mouths and if there is then they are better off purchasing in the secondary market after it is built and then the sour taste will not be there. If people want to go along with this product we are by no means forcing them to do so.

#156 5 years ago

also, we are trying to underpromise and overdeliver as opposed to the other way around

#157 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Also, we are trying to underpromise and overdeliver as opposed to the other way around.

This is always the best way to do business.

#158 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

And why on earth would that be a good thing ... that would insure that nothing happens as committments for parts, etc happens in waves, so we go spend $1M and if the project lags by a week because a supplier provides a part that is made wrong and it delays things, then we just throw the money and just cancel the project ... I don't think there is a sour taste in many's mouths and if there is then they are better off purchasing in the secondary market after it is built and then the sour taste will not be there. If people want to go along with this product we are by no means forcing them to do so.

Fair enough. In the post I quoted before it seemed like you were looking for ways to appear transparent. I only offered a humble suggestion.

So then your project could technically drag out for an extended period of years before the first machine is produced?

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Fair enough. In the post I quoted before it seemed like you were looking for ways to appear transparent. I only offered a humble suggestion.
So then your project could technically drag out for an extended period of years before the first machine is produced?

This kind of speculation just stirs the pot. There are well over 1,000 people committed to purchase who aren't concerned about that scenario. ANYTHING can happen, but I prefer to be a glass-half-full kinda guy...

#160 5 years ago

Technically the world may end, technically anything can happen. I think anyone trying to get something done is not really focused on the negative scenarios, so it's not really constructive.

I'm pretty agressive and impatient about getting things done, I think this is probably the quality that people can appreciate ...

#161 5 years ago
Quoted from Triumvirat73:

This kind of speculation just stirs the pot. There are well over 1,000 people committed to purchase who aren't concerned about that scenario. ANYTHING can happen, but I prefer to be a glass-half-full kinda guy...

Your counterparts 7 years ago felt the same way

Quoted from Triumvirat73:

This kind of speculation just stirs the pot. There are well over 1,000 people committed to purchase who aren't concerned about that scenario. ANYTHING can happen, but I prefer to be a glass-half-full kinda guy...

I'm not stirring any pots, I'm just mentioning if there are any provisions in this project for the highly unlikely event of a failure. Rick has been very firm and careful to distance himself from the past debacle and I can understand why he would want to do that, but the best way to truly differentiate what you are doing from "that guy" would be to say something up front to the effect of "My project will not drag on for 7 years with no product delivery". Or "If we haven't shipped the first game by January 1st, 2016 then I will offer refunds to anyone wanting out". As it stands it is another open-ended project which have had a mixed history of success in the past.

If you have a deposit with Wayne still today you can call him up and ask for a refund on it. Of all the terms of this new deal I found it curious that there is a really limited period of time folks on the buying side of the equation can ask for a refund (up until WMS approval), but there is no reciprocal provision for failure to deliver the goods in a timely manner.

#162 5 years ago

Right now all deposits are refundable. At some point they won't be, but it appears that point is when the games are starting to enter production or at least parts are being ordered in quantity. Once the games are entering production, there are a lot less unknowns regarding the release.

It's dumb to have a drop dead date on the project. Once the game has been finalized, the delays won't be years, weeks at the worst unless they messed something up bad. And up until then, you just ask for your money back.

Technically though, you are right. Anything can happen at any time, but based on your train of thought, this project might not be something for you.

Quoted from viper001:

I'm not stirring any pots, I'm just mentioning if there are any provisions in this project for the highly unlikely event of a failure. Rick has been very firm and careful to distance himself from the past debacle and I can understand why he would want to do that, but the best way to truly differentiate what you are doing from "that guy" would be to say something up front to the effect of "My project will not drag on for 7 years with no product delivery". Or "If we haven't shipped the first game by January 1st, 2016 then I will offer refunds to anyone wanting out". As it stands it is another open-ended project which have had a mixed history of success in the past.

If you have a deposit with Wayne still today you can call him up and ask for a refund on it. Of all the terms of this new deal I found it curious that there is a really limited period of time folks on the buying side of the equation can ask for a refund (up until WMS approval), but there is no reciprocal provision for failure to deliver the goods in a timely manner.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

It's dumb to have a drop dead date on the project.

If the project is assumed to be the success that everyone is expecting, how could having this be "dumb"? It costs nothing. Delays nothing. Could be padded sufficiently to allow for reasonable production delays. And all it would do is lend additional credibility to this project over the previous failure. And by your reasoning would never have to be activated anyway...

#164 5 years ago

What if after all the pads, the project just needed one week past the date? No matter what date was picked, it would be arbitrary. As long as people can get their money back until everything is set and potential delays are minimized, is that a bad thing? I'm asking sincerely.

Once the game is approved, the parts are lined up, the line is set and everything is ready to go, barring incompetence, it's hard to imagine any delays that would put them much past the 3 month window given.

Right now, the minimum goal is to ship 1 game by June 30th at the latest.

Quoted from viper001:

If the project is assumed to be the success that everyone is expecting, how could having this be "dumb"? It costs nothing. Delays nothing. Could be padded sufficiently to allow for reasonable production delays. And all it would do is lend additional credibility to this project over the previous failure. And by your reasoning would never have to be activated anyway...

#165 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

What if after all the pads, the project just needed one week past the date? No matter what date was picked, it would be arbitrary. As long as people can get their money back until everything is set

Re-check the terms of the agreement. Deposits are only refundable until WMS gives their approval. Not when parts have been ordered, or production started, or anything else you assumed further up. The last guy came to the table with WMS approval, and also managed to order a great many parts, but there was never any further movement to actually start production.

But to answer your question, in the event of a week delay, Rick could state that and give folks the option to stay or drop. If that really were the scenario I would guess most folks would stay. But wouldn't that kind of communication and honesty be welcome? Would your enjoyment of receiving the game be diminished if the guy that built it had given such a guarantee while it was being built?

#166 5 years ago

Why even debate him. Orders are in and all is well. He can buy one or not. Preorder or if he has doubts but one when they are in regular production as they will keep being made . It's that simple.

#167 5 years ago

No one has more "Luck" than the Colts!

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#168 5 years ago
Quoted from Triumvirat73:

This kind of speculation just stirs the pot. There are well over 1,000 people committed to purchase who aren't concerned about that scenario. ANYTHING can happen, but I prefer to be a glass-half-full kinda guy...

Agreed. More importantly; we're not being asked to bankroll it getting off the ground. I have zero concerns on completion. PPS has already leveraged their own money and are not asking for a dime more than the deposit until 2 weeks before delivery. Non issue for me.

#169 5 years ago

What was said was the deposit is fully refundable up thru WMS approval at which time the parts would be started to be converting into games. Additionally it was stated that if the project were to be cancelled for any reason that people would get their deposits back. I think again, if you are unhappy with any aspect I'd much prefer that instead of trying to engineer how we run this project that you simply ignore it ...

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

What was said was the deposit is fully refundable up thru WMS approval at which time the parts would be started to be converting into games. Additionally it was stated that if the project were to be cancelled for any reason that people would get their deposits back. I think again, if you are unhappy with any aspect I'd much prefer that instead of trying to engineer how we run this project that you simply ignore it ...

amen.

#171 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

and if the project were to fall apart for any reason, we are doing what we can do to keep the customer getting stuck with the tab.

Is a word missing here?

#172 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Is a word missing here?

Nope, those words are there on purpose.

#173 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Is a word missing here?

Wasn't that already addressed?

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There are 173 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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