(Topic ID: 222689)

Big Strike contact board damage

By MT45

5 years ago


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  • 25 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Mopar
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Big Strike Hot Line Change relay (resized).jpg
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Big Strike 1 pt DU2 (resized).jpg
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#1 5 years ago

See pic of my Big Strike score reel contact board. This is the “1’s” reel board. It looks like it has arcing to the point it has removed some Bakelite material around the contact areas. Can I just drip some epoxy in there to fill it in to provide a smooth surface for the 2 reel contacts to ride on?

It looks like the previous owner decided that liberal doses of WD40 would help the reels turn a little better and I am methodically pulling every component out and cleaning them.

Also the B-26, 800 coil on that reel was melted solid inside. Got new ones coming and wondering if this board issue might have been genesis of problem or if it was simply a stuck switch

Thx in advance

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#2 5 years ago

The board on the 1 pt score reel on Big Strike is used to fire the change relay:
Big Strike 1 pt DU (resized).jpgBig Strike 1 pt DU (resized).jpg
The odd numbers fire the relay and a 500 ohm resistor added probably to reduce arcing on the score reel board. If you look closely at your board it looks like every other position has overheated which likely corresponds to the odd numbers. Rather than arcing I suspect that your board got dirty (between the WD40 and all the grime it probably attracted) which increased the resistance between the board and the rotating contacts which generated the heat that toasted the fiberglass.

Quoted from MT45:

Can I just drip some epoxy in there to fill it in to provide a smooth surface for the 2 reel contacts to ride on?

It's worth a try. If it doesn't work well score reels aren't hard to find.

Quoted from MT45:

Also the B-26, 800 coil on that reel was melted solid inside. Got new ones coming and wondering if this board issue might have been genesis of problem or if it was simply a stuck switch

I doubt the board cooked your coil. It could have been the end of stroke switch on the 1 pt score reel which would have held the 1 pt relay on. How does your 1 pt relay coil look?

#3 5 years ago

Also, for those unfamiliar, Big Strike/Hot Line may be the first use of a dot matrix display in pinball. If you haven't seen it there's an animated GIF on ipdb at: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1245/Williams_1966_Hot_Line_Animated_Rollover_Button_Letter_Sequence.gif. Another excellent Steve Kordek innovation.

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Also, for those unfamiliar, Big Strike/Hot Line may be the first use of a dot matrix display in pinball. If you haven't seen it there's an animated GIF on ipdb at: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1245/Williams_1966_Hot_Line_Animated_Rollover_Button_Letter_Sequence.gif. Another excellent Steve Kordek innovation.

That is freakin COOL!
Thank you again Mr Kordek!

Thanks for the gif link!

#5 5 years ago

Is the 500 ohm resistor intact and good?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

See pic of my Big Strike score reel contact board. This is the “1’s” reel board. It looks like it has arcing to the point it has removed some Bakelite material around the contact areas. Can I just drip some epoxy in there to fill it in to provide a smooth surface for the 2 reel contacts to ride on?
It looks like the previous owner decided that liberal doses of WD40 would help the reels turn a little better and I am methodically pulling every component out and cleaning them.
Also the B-26, 800 coil on that reel was melted solid inside. Got new ones coming and wondering if this board issue might have been genesis of problem or if it was simply a stuck switch
Thx in advance [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Bakelite looks burnt up for sure. I don't think it runs high enough voltage to be a problem, but make sure it isn't full of tons of carbon soot making it conductive before coating over it.

Crazy how that burnt up like that.
Best wishes on the repair

#7 5 years ago

The object of these two games is to complete all the letters of HOT LINE. At the start of the game the display shows an H. As you roll over the white buttons the lights below them go out. Once all the lights are out the H light at the bottom of the playfield turns on to show that you've earned it, and then the display shows an O. The process repeats for each letter.

#8 5 years ago

Something is nagging me a little about one of your photos:
Big Strike 1 pt DU2 (resized).jpgBig Strike 1 pt DU2 (resized).jpg
If you follow the copper traces from the contact pads around the spindle out to the edge of the board you can see that the 3, 5, 7 and 9 pads have all been comparably overheated. The number 1 pad however looks just fine. That doesn't make sense. I wonder if there's any continuity between the number 1 pad and the 3, 5, 7, and 9 pads which should all be shorted together to the blue-orange wire.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Something is nagging me a little about one of your photos:
[quoted image]
If you follow the copper traces from the contact pads around the spindle out to the edge of the board you can see that the 3, 5, 7 and 9 pads have all been comparably overheated. The number 1 pad however looks just fine. That doesn't make sense. I wonder if there's any continuity between the number 1 pad and the 3, 5, 7, and 9 pads which should all be shorted together to the blue-orange wire.

Sherlock Holmes has got nothing on you! I did notice as I was cleaning that the orange-blue wire to #1 terminal on the board is broken free from its solder pad. Not sure if I did that removing it or what but that might explain it not being burnt? Of course I will solder it back up when my coils come in. Will also check that 500 ohm resistor too ....

BTW, I used 1,000 grit sandpaper to polish up those copper contact faces on the board. This pic was taken before that.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

I did notice as I was cleaning that the orange-blue wire to #1 terminal on the board is broken free from its solder pad.

That happened sometime before the burning started. That means that the Change relay and 500 ohm resistor never drew current through the #1 pad so it never overheated.

It will be good to check the resistor too as dr_nybble suggested. If its value has dropped significantly that could explain or contribute to the overheating too.

#11 5 years ago

Alright all. I’ve made some progress:

Soldered in 2 new coils
Cleaned 2 total of 4 reel sets
Checked continuity on that burnt board (appropriate)
Dripped epoxy into the burnt cavities of the board
Checked 500 ohm resistor on change relay (looks good, see pic)

Let me know what you see on that relay pic

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#12 5 years ago

Also a couple of 10 second videos of before and after cleaning the score reel components.

Before ... look at how thick the oil/WD40 is sitting right on the reel!

After cleaning

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Let me know what you see on that relay pic

Dunno. Do we get a hint?

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

That happened sometime before the burning started. That means that the Change relay and 500 ohm resistor never drew current through the #1 pad so it never overheated.
It will be good to check the resistor too as dr_nybble suggested. If its value has dropped significantly that could explain or contribute to the overheating too.

Sorry, I was not very clear.

No hint. I was wondering if you all saw anything odd or "wrong" in the pic. Sounds like i might need to cut that resistor out from the circuit and test with my multimeter?
No problem, if so. Ill do that and report back
Thx

#15 5 years ago

Can you fine sandpaper those coper pads down so they are totally clean on that disc? Shouldn't have any marks left...if you can.

#16 5 years ago

It could use a bit of a cleaning . Since the coil and resistor are wired in parallel you would need to desolder one leg of the resistor to get an accurate resistance measurement. According to https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html the resistance of the coil is 14.2 ohms which would dominate the measurement of the two in parallel. For reference a 14.2 ohm resistor in parallel with a 500 ohm resistor has an equivalent resistance of 13.8 ohms. Given the variability in actual coil resistance and the resistance between your meter probes and the circuit you couldn't make a meaningful measurement of the resistors's resistance without disconnecting it from the coil.

Your photos don't show any signs of damage so I'd be surprised if you find it's resistance is far from the 500 specified on the schematic.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Can you fine sandpaper those coper pads down so they are totally clean on that disc? Shouldn't have any marks left...if you can.

I can, no problem. They got as shiny as they are by me lightly sanding them already, so it wont be too hard to touch up those dark spots. I mainly sanded them because after dripping epoxy into the cracks, I used a razor blade to level it and couldnt avoid smearing a very thin film of epoxy over the face of the contacts. The sanding quickly removed it.

Quoted from MarkG:

It could use a bit of a cleaning

No kidding .... this thing is filthy everywhere!
I will go ahead and desolder that resistor to get an accurate measurement.

#18 5 years ago

Awesome! Yeah, I would try cleaning all those contact points and the big ring in middle all pretty before teflon lube.

Make sure points on all the fingers are clean and mating well as well

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

That is freakin COOL!
Thank you again Mr Kordek!
Thanks for the gif link!

I own Hot Line, which is the replay version. One of the games of my teen years. You can complete a letter three ways. Rolling over the buttons, going down the inside outlanes, when they are lit (once you get to a certain point you can't do that any longer) or lighting the A/B which opens a return gate to the shooter lane. If the ball goes back into the shooter lane, there's a rollover switch there that will score the current letter and advance the sequence.

Once you complete the I, the outside outlanes light alternately light for special. If you complete the N, it lights another special, and if you complete E you get another replay (or two, it is selectable).

Fabulous game. I restored mine completely, new bgresto backglass on it and it's so much fun.

#20 5 years ago

Here's a neat factoid for anyone who's interested in EM game design. Compare the Change relays on Big Strike (add a ball) and Hot Line (replay):
Big Strike Hot Line Change relay (resized).jpgBig Strike Hot Line Change relay (resized).jpg
Both games toggle the Change relay for each 1pt scored but they do it in different ways. Hot Line drives the Change relay from the Match unit, which is advanced by the 1pt relay, and has no resistor in parallel with the relay coil. Big Strike drives the Change relay from the 1pt Score Reel and adds a resistor in parallel to the Change relay coil. Why the difference?

Big Strike is an add a ball game with no match unit which explains why they had to use the Score Reel instead. The extra resistor is probably there to reduce the arching on the relatively light weight contacts on the Score Reel contact board. The contacts on Hot Line's Match unit stepper are heavier duty in comparison and don't require the extra protection from arcing.

#21 5 years ago

More progress and still some issues. All score reels, mechs, coil sleeves, switches were cleaned, 2 new coils installed. Bad contact board epoxied, cleaned. See previous posts above on how greasy/sticky they were. So bad in fact that during game play there is NO way at least 2 of them would turn! But, still my Score motor continues to run so ....

I unplugged the Jones plugs at the head to isolate the issue and score motor continues to run so ...

Am I right to assume the issue is in the cabinet?

Also, see pic of one of the relay coils. Cracked winding mounts. Got one on order. When I checked it after score motor had run for about 30 secs it was warm/hot

Here’s a bit more info on game operation right now. Plug it in. Lights up. Open coin door and at bottom in middle is one switch. Close that switch and the score motor starts running. No game will start

Thx for any advice on the “next” thing to check!
D08E1BF5-D8BD-4962-A5F0-082196FB01A0 (resized).jpegD08E1BF5-D8BD-4962-A5F0-082196FB01A0 (resized).jpeg

#22 5 years ago

Checking all relays that lead to the score motor and found this broken switch blade stuck down behind a relay. I looked and found it fell off one of the pop bumpers above.

It looked like it was making contact across multiple switches. Got it removed but score motor continues to run! I did slide a business card into the motor stop switch to test that but that did not stop it.

I also checked lots of relays but did not yet find any that were either latched open or single switches stuck closed.

Still wondering if its that relay coil in the above pics

IMG_2257 (resized).JPGIMG_2257 (resized).JPG
#23 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

but score motor continues to run! I did slide a business card into the motor stop switch to test that but that did not stop it.

Are any of these relays energized? If not do the same to these switches

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png
4 months later
#24 5 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Also, for those unfamiliar, Big Strike/Hot Line may be the first use of a dot matrix display in pinball. If you haven't seen it there's an animated GIF on ipdb at: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1245/Williams_1966_Hot_Line_Animated_Rollover_Button_Letter_Sequence.gif. Another excellent Steve Kordek innovation.

It took me a year of owning the game to realize that it was spelling out Hot Line. Just thought they were random patterns.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballryan:

It took me a year of owning the game to realize that it was spelling out Hot Line.

Pretty cool. Never knew! Does Big Strike function the same way? I haven't gone through that one yet..

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