disappointed for the following reasons:

69 day count down was an intended hype builder and no real explosion. It is like the BJ with no completion, a let down that leaves you frustrated.

8500 price tag and a no real info that could not have been revealed at the onset besides that they have the license finally. They obviously used us and the email gathering as a way to measure how much they can charge. "He look guys we got 1000 emails, I think we can charge 8500 instead of the 7500 we originally planned"

Asking for large chunks on money now with NOTHING to show for it and NO incentive to do so other than to get you game earlier (even that has not been stated with the non-existent contract). This preorder stuff is BS and is BAD for everyone but the people getting the cash to hold for 2 years. On top of that it is somewhat insulting as at this point is comes off somewhat like saying "Yeah, we know you are an obsessive group and the license alone is enough to convince you to give us your $$$, suckers"

Don't get me wrong... I love the theme. I love that more new pinball is on the horizon. I love that people are following their dreams. I love that they have some experience in programming with the PROC bride 2.0.

I don't care for the crazy price tag and taking pre-orders for vaporware and nothing to even show for it.
No one should be giving these guys $$$ without a hard contract and some security that you will actually get your $$$ back if you want to bail.

I am sorry, but if Predator can do it with $250 deposit and nothing more AND Ben Heck can do it for nothing down, then other non-established companies should be able to do the same thing. Also worth mention that the DP should already have WAY more in their bankroll and with the established facility than either Predator or AMH has had at onset of their respective projects.

STOP funding your startup companies with our preorder $$$ and STOP asking ridiculous prices on top of it.

Seems like there's several examples of people doing with 2 year preorders though as well, JJP and JPOP.. The latter doing it with 10k games so not without precedence. People aren't all up in arms about those as destroying the hobby. I understand frustration though (maybe they are just the last straw in this trend, or that more people like this theme than the others so more disappointed).

I do wonder why there's almost no incentives out there to get a lot of preorders going right now to gauge serious interest. That seems as much a misstep as not having any details other than $$ right now. Let's hope info starts flowing out soon.. Well before April (next payment) or I and others will prob pull out and may sink the ship

Well, we've seen with Ster Trek how flexible we can be when it comes to changing our minds. I'm confident that Dutch Pinball will deliver a great game and once more details are known more and more people will appreciate it.

I have faith that DP can make an amazing machine, but the price is just too far out of reach. I know there are plenty that can afford it and I am happy for them as I am sure the machine will be awesome. For the rest of us, I hope we have one somewhat local we can play.

I have been told by the patrons at the place I operate games that they would LOVE a Big Lebowski pin, but I can't see it making 2x-3x as much as the machines I have now to justify the price tag. When I ask them would they rather have me put a BL or Hobbit in a year or more from now, or would they rather me put 2-3 other good pins in now. They all say they would rather have more pins now.

I'd put pins in today that can make money today.

Right. I don't have my pins at this location to really 'make' money, I have them there so there is a decent place for people to play around here. The money they make helps subsidize my hobby and in turn helps put more machines there for people to enjoy.

Anyways, back on topic. With the look and polish of the BoP 2.0 software and animations, and also the production quality of this 'viral' campaign, I am excited to see what this pin is going to look right. I am expecting it to look awesome.

On another movie related note, I can't wait for Rounders 2 with Robert De Niro playing the villain!! Entire staff is back!

The Big Labowski? It's not even a very good movie!?

There I said it!

are you kidding me, Rounders was awesome! I hadn't heard they were doing a Rounders 2. I wonder how many stacks of high society he has this time.

Pay that man his money! my Russian voice sucks!

And Stern is loving this instead of competition keeping prices in check it is a race to see who can bend us over the furthest.
I think in my case the hobby has just run it's course and I am done buying pinballs I will just play what I have and watch the show.
This game with tax and shipping will be close to 10K that is just stupid money for a toy.

"Well that's just like, uh, your opinion, man."

Jared, for the record, I wish you had been right about the STLE projector having been a projection onto the glass, not the playfield, and had been stone cold wrong about this one. LOL.

You realize that people changed their minds on Star Trek due to the fact that many were actually able to play it *before* buying it?

People may change their minds on TBL too...after they can see and play one. But that might be a tall order. It isn't like they are going to be cranking these out in numbers that will make them widely accessible.

You dont get it? Come on....

You let a big fanbase wait for 60 fucking days. And then all you show is the price and the team and a date of arrival years away.

All negatives. Again a pin not made for pin fans but for a few millionaires.

Off course this is a mayor let down. I expected less greed, less hype and more information from my fellow dutchmen.

I guess I was in the camp that was hoping for more, but I can't say I was really expecting more.

The conspiracy theories about all 12 of them taking our money and starting a new life is a little absurd, I just don't see 12 respected members of the community running off with the funds. Would I feel great about forking over 1k to hold a spot in line? No, but that's why I haven't done it, no real reason to complain if you haven't put your money out there.

This is about my favorite theme ever, but for me, I need to see more than a theme. I like what they did with BOP 2.0, but there was no playfield design in that project. I'm certainly not saying that I don't think they're capable, but I haven't preordered anything with the name Ritchie or Nordman stamped on it, I just prefer to see gameplay (the most important part of any game, imo) before I'll commit money.

I will say that their marketing has been great, and they seem to really 'get' this license. It looks promising, and I'll be sure to follow their progress.

This does NOT explain the price in Europe.
In comparison, Predator was listed by Ministry of Pinball at 4495 euros (including VAT) and Nemo at 4300 + VAT. The later comes with an LCD. (I dont recall if a price was announced for Full Throttle?).

7500 euros is what some people have decided to pay for STLE. Even if too high, at least they got their pin within weeks.
"Thanks" to JJP, MMr and Stern LEs we have now the 7500-8000 euros price tag as a commonly accepted basis.
"Thanks" to JJP and MMr, this insane prepayment schedule is becoming the norm.

Sorry, out of it.

From one Dutch guy to another: what a load of crap. With this point of view you can throw out all new pins right away.
You can't expect a revolutionary pin with innovative features for a $3k or $4K pricetag, that's totally unreal. I'm assuming that these guys will go beyond a standard DMD based pinball machine, so think "WOZ": a color display, multi color LED's and multiple toys and such a package can't be done for "Stern Pro" prices.

I think it's a daring undertaking and I respect it. The way they communicated it may be a bit unfortunate, but I think we should give these guys a chance to make this happen.

I think plungermaster expected to get a free example because he is dutch.

But as the dutch say : If you don't have any money than you could better collect beerbottlecaps :p

And what's this fanbase? All your base are belong to us?

This is an exiting title with a unexciting price. By the time I pay import/taxes/brokerage fees this title will end up costing me 12K. There isn't a pinball machine thats been produced that commands this type of money. I wish these guys luck as I have a small place in my heart for the Dutch but its a tough pill to swallow. I am curious how many MMR customers are thinking of jumping ship to get this title? Me personally, I would rather buy pins that are on this continent. I could buy a pin for what I will pay for shipping and other fees for TBL. I guess for now my money stays in my pocket

Personally I would have picked a licence with a wider appeal than TBL for my first pinball machine to manufacture. I am not knocking TBL but cant see it selling in huge numbers.

We Americans also have a saying "Never buy a pig in a poke".

You say a load of crap, and then you come with zero statements i made which would be crap. Instead of that of you come up with arguments i never talked about.

1. I did not expect a revolutionary pin
2. I did not expect 3k
3. I dont care what you assume, i want to know what statement i made is crap. You failed to explain.

I talked about the hype and 60 days waiting, for nothing. That is bull shit. I read nothing about this in your review about my comment.

You say i talk crap, but you cant explain why.

Maybe it does make sense then.

Yeah.... + monkey + facepalm.

I LOVE this campaign (not a fan of half naked women part). Best movie- have it in our personal collection. Not likely to make it into Tim's collection however. But as for me, nobody f***s with the Jesus so maybe I will buy it!

I think DP should do a Max Factor pinball once TBL is finished.

Hear, hear!

Boy, I bet you patted yourself on your back for coming up with "Borebowski" eh? Anyone who would find that funny obviously has a terrible sense of humor. Then again, that's already proven by the fact that you don't like The Big Lebowski movie.

Tool.

By the way, I'll be making a Fargo pin and am now taking pre-orders. Other than telling you the name of the game, I have absolutely nothing to show you, but feel free to start sending me thousand dollar payments ASAP.

Thanks!

That is not Sam Elliot. Barely even sounds like him.

You're supposed to make people wait two months before you show them nothing.

Oh crap, you're right... DAMMIT!

Because everybody and their mother hasn't been in the business for decades. Stern has been and look at some of the garbage they churn out. Half the time with unfinished/never will be finished code.

You also have to roll a bloody wood chipper through expo first to get the buzz going.

Agreed but how great would it be if the programmers made it possible for end-users to upload their own music MP3? Then put "suggested songs" for certain modes. Couldn't be too hard....

Man, I am so so glad Stern doesn't have their cost-cutting, unfinished code hands anywhere near this.

While I'm not happy with the price, this is going to bring a TON of new people into the hobby. These are going to be in bowling alleys, bars and movie theaters all across the country. It's a timeless yet modern theme. What's the shelf life of something like Avatar, Pirates of the Caribbean or something similar? A year maybe. This movie 10x more popular now than the day it was released.

Here we go with that old gag again.

99% of anybody who says "I like that Lebowski machine. Let's get one!" is gonna be O-U-T when they discover the price.

Hell, pretty much all outsiders look like a possum in the headlights when they discover that "cheap" machines are $2k+.

Yep, people are shocked to hear the prices...hell, I'm starting to get shocked.

I mean it will get them trying and playing a pinball machine. Some of which have probably never even tried one before. More people into the hobby is always a good thing, even if it only leads them to pick up a cheaper machine.

One thing I'm interested in finding out...

Just because you have the rights to name "The Big Lebowski", doesn't mean you have rights to use the likeness of the actors(See Back To The Future pin for an example)

I wonder how that's going to work out...

Given that they are donating $25 a order to Jeff Bridges favorite charity I assume they either are getting or expecting support by talent vs back to future situation

A whopping $25 per machine.

Say they do get Bridges. You still have about 6 other characters, all of which are top-line talent. John Goodman, Julianne Moore, John Tutorro, Steve Buscemi, Phillip Seymour Hoffman etc. These aren't low priced actors.

I'm the opposite: I'm glad it's not Stern handling this title. I would not want to see TBL as a generic layout with cheap toys and generic rules (and an obsolescent DMD). Much happier to see some cutting edge and dedicated effort, rather than just another title cranked out on the production line. I'll be happy if it's more WOZ than ST. but it's gotta have a bowling alley at least as good as the one in the Flinstones!

The lack of a legit designer concerns me a bit. We'll see!

Fair enough that $25 is chump change, but they didn't have to do it all so.

The beauty of this movie though it is dialog GOLD.. Even adapted to pinball. You don't need a lot of voice work. They seem to have a passable Sam elitot like voice already which can narrate the game.. Might be all they need

I'm speaking specifically to the artwork though which is 50% of the game to me. A drawing of any of those actors that is "off" is going to be really lame. I hope to god they get rights to the actors likenesses. It does seem highly unlikely though.

I've seen plenty of Lebowski merch with all the principle actors likenesses. So I'm guessing that will be part of the license.

I'm sure there may be a region/area where there are actually "more people getting into the hobby" but it certainly isn't anywhere near me. The one local arcade to me is closing in a week or two, and they only had 2 pins. There's not a single machine on route within a 2 hour drive of me, so I'd have to go to Nashville or Atlanta to play a pin that isn't at my house, my mom's house, or Fatsquatch's house... and honestly from the looks of things I really don't know if he's going to be in the hobby that much longer. There's a retail shop in town, but the cheapest machine on his floor is going to be an EM for $2000+. (I just checked their website and a STTNG is $8995, the cheapest is $1695 for Trident.)

I invite friends over who think the machines are cool, but if they ask how much they are and I actually tell them what I paid, they immediately dismiss ever having one. In fact, they get really big eyes and this look of "you're insane" when they look around the room and mentally add up the cost of machines in my basement. And that's before I 'pop the hood' and show them inside the cabinet, and tell them that in the last 1.5 years of owning them I've gotten quite good at fixing them since something is bound to mess up occasionally with so many moving parts. Higher prices just means that I'm going to be buying less, or probably none at all. And that's a shame, since we as a family went from 1 antique pin in the basement to 10 pins in less than 2 years, and now we're basically priced out of the hobby already. And since we're not going to be able to afford anything else, the 10 we have aren't going to go anywhere since we'd never be able to afford to replace them, so they're out of the market completely instead of being able to sell/swap and try different machines like so many people have done in the past. There will be no "cheaper machines" to be had, meaning anyone that would like to be in the hobby isn't going to be able to afford the price to get one.

Uh? That was my favorite part!!. Wish I had been closer!
( Excuse my French )

Given the price I would consider myself fortunate if we find this pin on location somewhere. Usual price is 2 euros for 5 games. Do the maths assuming you get 60% of the cash and pay the pin VAT free (6240 euros): 26000 plays. Of course it has some resale value but I am not counting maintenance.

Given that I have rarely seen anyone but me playing pins on location anymore, that arcades are closing and the few Ops who survive put old games on location, chances are slim one would take the risk.