(Updated with video)Big Indian Won’t Reset or Start a Game

(Topic ID: 226611)

(Updated with video)Big Indian Won’t Reset or Start a Game


By jdoz2

43 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 minutes ago by jdoz2
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Pinball (resized).png
Pinball (resized).png
Pinball (resized).png
Pinball (resized).png
D0D0B7B9-324A-4492-9C94-9C4D671E89AA (resized).jpeg

#1 43 days ago

I’ve made a little bit of progress on this game but I’m stumped by this issue.

When I push the start button:
- V pulls in
- Hold relay holds (R)
- PB2 pulls in

If I push the start button PB3 pulls in and the start button again pulls in PB4. After that the start button does nothing which makes sense.

Could any of the Gottlieb EM Gurus point me in the right direction? I can take a photo of any part of the schematic if it helps.
D0D0B7B9-324A-4492-9C94-9C4D671E89AA (resized).jpeg

#2 43 days ago

Your thread topic says it "won't start a game". If the playfield isn't active, inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).png
#3 43 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Your thread topic says it "won't start a game". If the playfield isn't active, inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.
[quoted image]

I guess saying it won’t reset is more accurate. Thanks I’ll check that out

#4 43 days ago

Checked that path and it’s doing the same thing.

#5 42 days ago

What do you mean by "won't start a game"?

#6 42 days ago

When you push the start button, it does what I mentioned in my original post and that’s it. It doesn’t go through the reset cycle, doesn’t kick a ball out, no pf switches or solenoid power.

#7 42 days ago

If the Replay Button (V) relay activates and the Start (S) relay doesn't, inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).png
#8 41 days ago

I’ve done a quick check and nothing seems out of place. I’ll keep checking and report back

1 month later
#9 9 days ago

I’ve gone through the whole thing again and I’m still at the same place. Hopefully the video can clearly show what’s going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=jwLMR8r2dRI

#10 9 days ago

The video won't play for me. That said, is the score motor rotating? If not, is the service plug for it unplugged or in the "off" position? Are wires connected to both tabs on the motor coil winding?

Can you slightly rotate it with power on (Game over does not matter); does the motor continue by itself for a bit and then stop? If not, troubleshoot and figure out why. Standard electrical troubleshooting techniques apply here.

#11 9 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

The video won't play for me. That said, is the score motor rotating? If not, is the service plug for it unplugged or in the "off" position? Are wires connected to both tabs on the motor coil winding?
Can you slightly rotate it with power on (Game over does not matter); does the motor continue by itself for a bit and then stop? If not, troubleshoot and figure out why. Standard electrical troubleshooting techniques apply here.

Sorry, I’ll take a look at the video to see if i can get it to play.

Yes the score motor turns when I push then replay button and when it’s turned.

#12 9 days ago

Video should work now, sorry

#13 9 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Replay Button (V) relay activates and the Start (S) relay doesn't, inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.
[quoted image]

Does the Replay Button (V) relay activate?
Does the Start (S) relay activate?

#14 9 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Does the Replay Button (V) relay activate?
Does the Start (S) relay activate?

Yes to both. It’s doing the same thing as described in my original post.

#15 8 days ago

Here's the reset sequence from the Big Indian manual. How far does it get?

Pinball (resized).png
#16 8 days ago

If you set the coin adj for 1 credit start game , does the s relay pull in when you coin up the machine?

#17 8 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here's the reset sequence from the Big Indian manual. How far does it get?
[quoted image]

It gets to #4. The sb relay never pulls in but it looks like the play meter tries to rotate but never makes a full rotation.

#18 7 days ago

Hi jdoz2
theory later --- look here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=257&picno=30529 - the huge bank of relays - it is called the Control-Bank. See (in the ipdb-picture) that some of the relays are moved / actuated / dropped. DANGER - there is 110 VAC / 24 VAC / 6 VAC in the pin - Current can kill You. Please toggle off Your pin AND UNPLUG the Main Power Cord. Now hold the plunger of the Control-Bank and move it (in the ipdb-picture) back, towards the Score-Motor. See how all the relays are moved / resetted.
Now hands off, plug in the main power cord - stare at the Control-Bank while You toggle the main power switch. When we toggle-on a fully running Big Indian: The QB-Game-Over-Relay plunges / actuates (in the Control-Bank) - AND the ZB-First-Ball-Relay plunges / actuates (in the Control-Bank) --- what do these relays do in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

P.S. Watching Your video - I am not certain - thats why I ask about the two Relays.

#19 7 days ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi jdoz2
theory later --- look here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=257&picno=30529 - the huge bank of relays - it is called the Control-Bank. See (in the ipdb-picture) that some of the relays are moved / actuated / dropped. DANGER - there is 110 VAC / 24 VAC / 6 VAC in the pin - Current can kill You. Please toggle off Your pin AND UNPLUG the Main Power Cord. Now hold the plunger of the Control-Bank and move it (in the ipdb-picture) back, towards the Score-Motor. See how all the relays are moved / resetted.
Now hands off, plug in the main power cord - stare at the Control-Bank while You toggle the main power switch. When we toggle-on a fully running Big Indian: The QB-Game-Over-Relay plunges / actuates (in the Control-Bank) - AND the ZB-First-Ball-Relay plunges / actuates (in the Control-Bank) --- what do these relays do in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf
P.S. Watching Your video - I am not certain - thats why I ask about the two Relays.

Thanks for the detailed instructions that helps a lot. When I follow your procedure only the QB actuates

#20 7 days ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

It gets to #4. The sb relay never pulls in but it looks like the play meter tries to rotate but never makes a full rotation.

Try disconnecting the play meter. It could be shorted inside.
Then inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).png
#21 7 days ago

Hi jdoz2
look at this video http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#axrelayvideo ONLY look at time 00:48 to 00:56. The man (Clay) does MANUALLY actuate / plunge relays on the Control-Bank.
Please toggle-off AND UNPLUG the main power cord. Do reset the Control-Bank. THEN (fumble a bit, do like Clay): MAKE the ZB-First-Ball-Relay plunge / actuate. Then plug-in, toggle-on - the pin actuates the QB-Relay - NOW You have both relays plunged - then press the Credit Button / Start Button - is the SB1-Relay (in the Control-Bank) nice / friendly - does it plunge / actuate --- and the Start-up of a new game begins ? Greetings Rolf

#22 7 days ago

Ok, I followed your directions.

When I do that and turn the game back on, QB AND LB actuate. If I press the replay button SB actuates and the score motor keeps spinning.

#23 7 days ago

Hi jdoz2
good - some progress. Look at the Operatings Instrucions HowardR shows in post-15. We have the Work-Around on the not written 0. - Plugging-in and toggling-on makes the QB- and the ZB-Relay to actuate (if not already actuated in the game before). Then (in the Operating Instructions) the 1. works - and the 2. works and the 3. works and the 4. works --- we are on 5.

I always like to see the pin resetting the Score-Drums on all 4 players. You may have all the Score-Drums at Zero (?). Please toggle-off / unplug the 110VAC line cord (Safety Reasons), open the Backbox, take out the 100-points-Score-Drum of player-1 - manually put some points on the drum. The same on 100-points-Score-Drum of player-2, -3, -4. Have the 110VAC main power cord still unplugged - do the work-around (post-21) - plug-in, toggle-on, press the Credit-Button --- wait a bit. Does then the Z2-Reset-Relay pull-in, stays pulling and with the help of the turning motor - do the Score-Drums of player-3 and -4 reset (step forward) ? THEN Z2-Relay quits pulling, Z1-Relay pulls-in, stays pulling and with the help of the turning motor - do the Score-Drums of player-1 and -2 reset ?

IF (if, if) the Z2-Relay does not pull-in - just the motor is running: Wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stick - gently press the armature on Z2-Relay (while the motor is running) - do the Score-Drums reset ? Once again: NEVER touch bare metal / soldered-on wires in the pin with naked / non-insulated hands - current can kill You. Greetings Rolf

#24 18 hours ago

Sorry it took so long to do this.

So I followed your procedure and the z2 engages and tries resetting the score reels. After some tweaking the 3rd and 4th players reset and then the 1st and 2nd player resets.

The reset bank then actuates and then the game shows player 1, ball 1.

Seems like we are close! Thanks again for helping me through this.

#25 30 minutes ago

Hi jdoz2
great - You could fix some Reset-Problems. I rewiew - You toggle off the pin and unplug the main power cord. You manually make the ZB-Relay in the Control-Bank to plunge, You manually put some points on some Score-Drums. You plug-in, toggle-on, press the Credit-Button --- the pin starts up and does Start-up / Resetting procedure. See the JPG in post-15: Your pin does the 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6. By now do not try the "7." - procede with 8. You wear rubber gloves (Safety Reasons), You have lifted the playfield so You can watch the O-Ball-Return-Relay. Manually close the Outhole-Switch below the Outhole (Gottlieb calls this switch "Ball-Return-Switch") --- the O-Relay should pull-in, the motor should turn - then the Outhole-Kicker (Gottlieb: Ball-Return-Coil) should kick. If the pin does nothing when You manually close the Outhole-Switch: Manually activate the O-Relay - what happens ?
By the way - here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=257&picno=7435 we see the Bonus-Ladder - none of the Bonus-Lights should be lit (this pin starts with ZERO Bonus) - in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

#26 2 minutes ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi jdoz2
great - You could fix some Reset-Problems. I rewiew - You toggle off the pin and unplug the main power cord. You manually make the ZB-Relay in the Control-Bank to plunge, You manually put some points on some Score-Drums. You plug-in, toggle-on, press the Credit-Button --- the pin starts up and does Start-up / Resetting procedure. See the JPG in post-15: Your pin does the 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6. By now do not try the "7." - procede with 8. You wear rubber gloves (Safety Reasons), You have lifted the playfield so You can watch the O-Ball-Return-Relay. Manually close the Outhole-Switch below the Outhole (Gottlieb calls this switch "Ball-Return-Switch") --- the O-Relay should pull-in, the motor should turn - then the Outhole-Kicker (Gottlieb: Ball-Return-Coil) should kick. If the pin does nothing when You manually close the Outhole-Switch: Manually activate the O-Relay - what happens ?
By the way - here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=257&picno=7435 we see the Bonus-Ladder - none of the Bonus-Lights should be lit (this pin starts with ZERO Bonus) - in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

I’ll put the playfield back in later today and report back. Thanks!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 149.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 189.00
Displays
Boston Pinball Company
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 34.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
From: $ 9.99
$ 50.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Just 3D Mods
€ 4.99
Flipper Parts
Multigame
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 129.00
Electronics
Iron Transfer LLC
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 12.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 18.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 35.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 9.95
Apparel - Unisex
Pinball Wheezer
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 35.00
$ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
From: $ 185.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Flip N Out Pinball
$ 59.00
$ 27.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside