(Topic ID: 235245)

Big Guns Troll Problems

By Icebear1372

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Icebear1372
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


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#1 1 year ago

Hello Everyone,
I am having a challenge with Big Guns. The trolls are not resetting at the start of the game and once they they are knocked down.
When I go into the service menu and have it check the trolls they pop right back up. Any thoughts?

#2 1 year ago

Have you done a switch test? Maybe it's not detecting when they're down.

#3 1 year ago

When you knock down the drops they are supposed to stay down until you hit the troll or the loop behind them.

But they should reset at the start of each ball too.

#4 1 year ago

I did not run a switch test yet. I will do that when I get home. Part of me was thinking about removing the drop targets and do a good deep cleaning of all the mechanisms.

#5 1 year ago

I'm no expert, but I filmed this when I cleaned my BG drop target assemblies. Maybe it'll be of some assistance for you.

#6 1 year ago

So I preformed a switch test and none of the switches had problems. So I reset the drop targets and did a switch edge test. Durring the switch edge test, none of the drop target switches activated. I cleaned all the switches just to be safe and still no luck.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Icebear1372:

So I preformed a switch test and none of the switches had problems. So I reset the drop targets and did a switch edge test. Durring the switch edge test, none of the drop target switches activated. I cleaned all the switches just to be safe and still no luck.

Okay assuming you checked all the connections on both, I don't think it's likely that all the optos went out at the same time, maybe it's something with the switch matrix. According to the manual all the drop targets are on the same column. Two other switches are as well that you can test to see if they're still working, the left and right return switches, that will confirm if this problem is a problem with the column.

#8 1 year ago

Yes the left and right return switches are still working.

#9 1 year ago

Okay that makes it a bit more tricky if the whole column isn't out. How about a manual test of the switch matrix, just to be sure, though. Remove the connectors 1J8 and 1J10, then if you short 1J8-3 & 1J10-7 it should register as the bottom drop target on the left side. Also have you tried reseating cables on the the interconnect board?

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#10 1 year ago

I have tried resetting the board connections with no luck. Can you tell me the best way to short 1J8-3 & 1J10-7? I just no not want to cause any further damage.

#11 1 year ago

If there's room you can get an alligator clip cable on both sides and just short the pins together. To be exactly like the circuit is normally you can also get a 1N4004(or any non-zener diode should work, but that's the one used on a couple of switches I know like the cannons) diode to put in between em like in this diagram.

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#12 1 year ago

So today before I could short out the pins as suggested. I turned on the game and am now getting an error related to the trolls. Adjust switches 17, 18, 19, and 20. I also noticed that the wires on the right molex conection appear to have the insullation stripped off.

When I short the pins on the board, it does register points and make the troll noise.

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#13 1 year ago

Okay, you're probably getting the adjustment error because those switches haven't been activated in a certain number of games. If they're registering fine on the board then we can at least rule that out. Back to the playfield, your connectors might be bad. If you have a meter you should test for continuity on the connections for the left and right drop targets, especially with the green-orange wire on both of em. If that wire isn't making a good connection then it would cause the all the associated switches to not register.

#14 1 year ago

Okay I spent some time on the puzzle of getting the trolls to work this evening. So far what I have have done is the following:
Replaced the Molex connectors on the drop target boards as well as 1J8 on the main board.
Checked continuity of the green and orange wire the from the drop targets up to the main board.
Verified that the when I jump a wire from 1J8-3 to any of the 1J10 pin that the switch registers.

After that the trolls can be reset with the solenoid test, but it does not score them when they are knocked down or reset them afterwards.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Icebear1372:

but it does not score them when they are knocked down or reset them afterwards.

So when they are knocked down, all three, if you hit the stand up behind them nothing happens?

What about if you hit the bonus advance loop? Does the bonus advance loop light up after all three are down?

#16 1 year ago

Nope the bonus loop does not light up and the trolls also do not score or pop back up for the next ball.
I was also reading up on system 11 optical problems and the article stated that system 11 b opticals boards should have a processing chip on the as them It stated that the optical processor was removed from from the main board ad added to the board attached to the drop targets. One of their suggestions for problems was to replace this chip. However when I removed the drop targets, I found this board which does not have the chip attached.

This is the article that referenced the optical boards.


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#17 1 year ago

Huh, now this is getting confusing. You've checked the MPU, the interconnect board, and the connectors and none of them seem to be causing it.

On the drop target behavior, on my machine, running ROM L-8, the drop targets reset at the beginning of each ball regardless of whether or not they've been knocked down. What ROM are you running? The problem could potentially be a case of bit-rot and your ROM has become slightly corrupted.

#18 1 year ago

I had a similar issue on both my Space Station and Taxi which, I believe, use the same opto board. The problem was that the boards simply weren't getting power. The supply is a separate connector J2 that gets loose because there are only two pins holding it together. If the board doesn't get power then none of the drops will register.

#19 1 year ago

Okay I am beginning to wonder if when I fixed one problem it perhaps led to another. When I originally started I had power going to the trolls drop target board. Now this morning when I checked with the voltage meter I an getting less than 1 volt of power coming to the the optic boards. So I went back and checked all the fuses and attempted to follow the grey and yellow wire back up to the board and am unable to locate the wire.
I also removed and checked all the fuses for continuity and they are all good.

#20 1 year ago

The roms are below

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#21 1 year ago

Looks like you have the L-A ROM installed. I had the L-A rom installed in mine but recently swapped it over to L-8, but forgot if the the drop targets reset each time. Just loaded the L-A version up in Visual Pinball and looks like with this software the drop targets only reset if they've been knocked down.

L-A had a few changes that I think were intended to make Big Guns last longer on route/make the game easier, I switched mine back to L-8 cause in the L-A version of the game the locked balls don't drain at the end of each game and locks are preserved from game to game.

#22 1 year ago

Back to the power issue, here's the schematic from the manual. The board should be getting +12V.

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#23 1 year ago

SUCCESS! The pin on the power board was barely hanging on. Replaced the pin and re-flowed the remaining pins and the trolls are alive. Thank you everyone!

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