It's not easy but I've done it. Score doesn't really top out too high in this game I think that was 3.8 million or so. That's with extra balls on though.

That reminds me, I have to fix the extra ball bug on this game.... both the one lamp not blinking on the next ball if you didn't collect it, and collecting one killing both.

Bonus X depends on the base bonus in the cards, so really, you'd have to reset the base bonus.

Yes, that can be done pretty easily although I think that would make the game REALLY hard.

What format do you need the roms in? 2x2732, 4x2716, 1x512? (What mpu do you have in the game?)

I'll send you a new file that should work on that setup. Just to be safe I'll send both 2732 images although u2 might end up being exactly the same as the one you have.

Chuck is only testing the bonus resetting each ball, not anything with the extra ball yet.

The extra ball bug is that it starts out blinking, if you won't collect it, it's still lit on the next ball, it's just not blinking. It's because stern never took into account restoring the blinking lamps like Williams did. Also, when you collect one extra ball, even though you did 2 separate things to earn 2 different extra balls, both possibilities turn off. It's minor to be sure, but minimally the blinking one should still blink (I think they both blink, the left lane one lamp is out on my BG and I never got around to fixing it, but I'll double check it when I get around to fixing it)

After Chuck's testing will probably add a dip switch option for the bonus wipe/no bonus wipe. I don't think I'd run mine that way, but more options for tournament directors never hurt (or for people that want an extra challenge).

You mean the 25k bonus on the drop banks indicating you got all 3 drop numbers on all cards? I consider that a perk of completing the banks for later on. The bingo cards are where you're supposed to keep track of what you need. That leads me to believe that Chuck might find a bug in the romset I sent him because I forgot about the pink lights.... oops.

A 3rd round could happen by making the extra bonus blink but I'd have to add an extra variable somewhere to keep track of that since the blinking gets cleared. That shouldn't be too hard either, as long as there's an extra free lamp somewhere to exploit (there probably is, BG being an earlier stern mpu200 it's not 'full up' like some later ones are).

Bonus countdown would take forever though, and something would have to be done for the sound, it would get too fast and high otherwise. Maybe something like eight ball deluxe does, where instead of counting each rack off, you combine any racks over 1 by just doubling/tripling the score given? (i.e. each number is 2k, each 5k line would score 10k, but with the same duration and sound effect ramping).

I thought of giving a secondary bonus as well of spelling big game might be interesting.... maybe all cards twice and big game twice lights 5x instead of topping out at 3x?

Chuck check spam Emailed you on Friday morning.

So you'd like the pink lights for 25k bonus on drop banks to stay on even with the bonus erased? I'm thinking they might stay on but then turn off as you hit a drop for the first time because pretty sure it turns them off after each target hit and only turns them back on if warranted. Happens so fast in the code you won't notice a flicker or anything.

Yeah, I think the 25k should stay as well, as a [further] reward for getting the whole card.

Maybe a compromise could be, complete the card, great. You get the extra 27k times 3x for the completed card, BUT the next ball, the completed card extra bonus turns off. Kind of like how 9 ball does it with the 77k super bonus only getting collected once, IIRC.

I use the pink light to know I've completed a card as well, but I also trap up and look to see what individual #'s I need.

Another fun variation would be to have all 3 cards lit at once, something that does not happen in either set of dips for this option. (I always though the light one card at a time option was kind of boring, I like the variant they included stock)

3 cards at once would be once in a very long sequence (like every 15 times changed or so). Rare enough to take notice, not often enough to take advantage.

This is just like a planning meeting that Stern had/should have had 40 years ago... spitballing ideas. I like the ideas as options to kill all bonus, kill just the extra bonus, leave the 25k in any case, fix the extra ball issue. Already in the roms out in the field for several years now is an option to collect the 5k per line bonus on all balls, not just balls >=2, and make the background sound dip match the manual.

I just remembered another one that needs to be addressed, especially for tournaments - sometimes it takes a long while for the players' scores to get put back on the display, between the hstd and the animated 1.2.3.4.5.6.7 7777777 flashing. It seems prudent to swap the 777 sequence timing with the show scores timing instead, right now it's hstd and 777 heavy.

An official free play dip switch would be nice as well. My rom mods should be easy to recognize as I always put the version # in the match display at bootup. Stern put a 17 there on their later games for some reason (Lightning and Dragonfist def., don't remember noticing on the others). I wonder if that had any significance? They specifically set the match seed to #$17.

I also set the max credits to 99 and repurpose those dips for the options. Dip 19 is going to be my go-to dip for freeplay on/off.

That's an interesting variation, never saw that one before. Does it just appear 35 or does it click the credits up one at a time with the sound effect as well? Any extra hardware in there, Tom Callahan/repair connection (retired) used to sell a kit that watched the coin lockout solenoid and when it was on to take coins, would just electronically flip the coin switches to avoid rom changes (I don't think he was impressed by rom hacks based on the way he described them).

Alltek has been pretty much a "no custom" from day one. He's got some stuff that's on ipdb and the freeplay bally of course, but doesn't support people burning their own version of his combo rom.... would void your warranty I suppose.

You have eprom burner? I am getting very low of eproms so have to keep all I have to cycle into my own games. You'd think that 30 of each type would be enough but I go through a LOT of development roms and I'm not into the erase one to burn one type of thing (I have an eraser that does 40 at once)

Chuck everything is possible... I have the source code 80% commented for this game, and the parts that aren't aren't the ones needed to be changed, anyway.

Ever play free fall? Stern made it so you can change the lit line yourself with the flippers, but that was really confusing on mine so I turned that feature off. Shatzing is dangerous on mine you really risk the up and over. The lane behind the GA could work.

An interesting variation might be just to have the cards rotate via time. Now, that would be kind of trippy.... and if you ran over anything that also advanced the sequence, it would throw you off enough. Would encourage more selective shot making.

After I posted that I thought to be even more evil you could have drops reset based on time, and you lose your card progress you would have gotten.... but that's probably TOO evil. I can see the posts now - "big game drops reset when they shouldn't on my new machine - HELP!"

It should if I understand the way the multiprocessing engine works correctly. The value changing routine via time would be its own background thread.

I'm tempted to try this just to see if it works. It will enhance my understanding of the background os that's for sure.

Here is what I plan on rolling into the mod rom:

1) Max credits now 99 to free up dip switches for mods on/off
2) dip 19 is now freeplay on/off
3) extra 5k/line selectable for any ball 1,2,3,4,5
4) background sound dip 8 changed to match manual (on=bg on, off=bg off)
5) extra ball blinking will blink on next ball as well
6) timed card selection, lit cards move automatically on an interval. Change card still changes card.
7) All bonus removal (harsh!!)
8] only extra bonus removal (less harsh!!)
9) lane behind left standups will move card/can also light XYZ instead for short timer
10) switch test will show all closed switches similar to Williams' games instead of only the lowest numbered switch
11) a couple of factory hacks have been streamlined into the code (nothing noticeable to end user.... but it looks like they had issues getting the top saucer to clear when they were in development because they specifically check for re-entrancy!!)
12) 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 display during attract shortened drastically, scores from last game will show longer

Anything I missed? Any other suggestions? Maybe 5x if you get 3x from the cards AND complete big game?

Beta testers wanted, get your eprom burners ready! Get an eprom burner/eraser if you don't already have one. You'll need 2732 eproms as well unless your big game is jumpered for 2716s.... in which case I'd recommend you jumper it for 2x2732. If you have a newer weebly board with the 512 socket the software can be provided in that image as well.

Ah, That's right, the spinners are tied to the cards. I didn't think of that one. Maybe pause it while the spinner is going? (it's not like you're hitting drops on a spinner rip anyway). I don't like the idea of NOT getting your full spinner value. I've already implemented something like this in Meteor where the spinner will finish whatever it's doing if you happen to drain during a nice spinner rip (if you don't, the spinner could carry into the next player).

Stern themselves did this on Dragonfist and possibly other games after they realized they were blessed with the best spinners in the business.

I'm running out of dip switches... there will be a compromise on 5 ball games for the 5/k line bonus, you can only set it to balls 2, 3, 4, 5 (as factory). 3 ball can be set to 1, 2, 3. If there was any audit space free in the nvram I could put it up there like bally did with their later -35 games and you could set it to whatever.... but there's not and I'd rather not cut a swath through nvram just yet. That can get dicey.

I planned on having the lane behind the targets be the only thing that lights all 3, and it will just turn it off after some arbitrary time. I hadn't thought of the possible interaction of that with the other timed function if enabled, but I certainly will now. My intention was to light all 3 cards temporarily, and if you hit a change card.... too bad. The normal timed move won't happen until the all 3 card routines run out, if both are set to be enabled.... otherwise, you might get a really short timeout on the full 3 cards. I'm thinking you won't have time to hit one or 2 targets while it's lit, and if you think you're cradling up, you're mistaken. It's a pretty powerful thing to be able to light 3 numbers at once and I don't want it to become "the thing" like so many other games end up with. Gotta maintain balance.

And the hits just keep coming....

Is it fair that earned extra balls get wiped if you tilt???

That's getting pulled out.

Believe it or not, that's actually easy to implement. You just do something called blitting where you swap the info on the display for the info you want. I implemented this on my firepower system 7 rom by not only counting the # of spins (and the score) in the next player display, I also added a playfield multiplier that shows in the ball in play window. The same technique can be applied to big game.

It's been ages, but I think I did this with the old Lost Vegas conversion as well I know I was showing the bonus countup/down at ball end on another display.

I wouldn't scrape the backglass for this feature though, and there's no room to save the high # of spins like DF does. It would just be some silly eye candy.

It could probably go in the p4 display unless p4 is playing, then it could go in the p3 display. The score is already preserved so why not??

Or it could go in the ball in play display or the credit display (credit display might be confusing, though). The actual ball in play and credits are stored separately from the display ram. Big Game has 6-7 extra timed thread stacks available to add background stuff like this (the spinner would have to be on a timeout unless re-triggered, which is exactly how dragonfist does it). Only thing that might be confusing is if you managed to get both spinners going at the same time, would have to implement some kind of priority system there. Would be using the display ram itself to keep track of the spins, when the timeout expires, put the ball in play back there.

You need to get a hold of a cheap burner so these ideas can be implemented on your machine(s) without going to the rom burner guys.... $10/chip will add up fast when testing beta software. I sometimes go through 8-9 versions a session when there's either a nasty bug or some little tweaks to be done.

Eraser is about $20 on amazon, the burner is about $40, and the chips are 2-3 bucks apiece. Software runs on windows. Sadly the good version of the burner I use the TL866cs has been replaced with the TL866II which does NOT do chips that need >16 volts to program. Ideally, you would have a weebly board with the 512 socket in it, as the 866II can burn those, the chips are cheap, and there's only only chip to change. (I have ZIF sockets in all my games because I'm always swapping roms in and out, but for occasional swaps, that's optional)

Spinner counters are implemented. Although unlikely, if you happen to get the right spinner and the left spinner simultaneously, (the right first), the right will count until the left is hit, then the left takes over. The left spinner stock already has a timeout built into it to wait until the spinner stops for a bit (because of the saucer scoring) so the right can take over again if you happen to hit it that quick. The # of spins will stay up on the ball in play display for a short while so you can glance at it and then go back to the ball in play.

The software is moving along nicely, only have to implement a dip setting for the remove all bonus option, and add the all switch test in.

While I was at it, I implemented a solenoid saver for the drop banks - if any of the drop banks are completely up it doesn't bother to fire the solenoid before launching the ball (similar to eight ball deluxe on a single player game not bothering to reset the 7 bank between balls).

Changelog information:
big game

modified software v04

Changes from stock roms:

1)
Left and right spinner counts will 'blit' to ball
in play display. The left spinner has priority in
the case of both spinning at once. The high spin
count is not saved in any way due to nvram memory
limitations. The ball in play will return to the
display after a short interval.

2)
The extra ball blinking control normally switches
to a solid lamp on the next ball if not collected.

This now will blink on the next ball instead.

3)
The attract mode 7 digit countup has been sped up
slightly and the player score display will show
for a much longer period of time to make recording
of scores easier in a tournament situation.

4)
Tilting no longer removes earned extra balls.

5)
No more 'tilt test' in attract mode. (Previously
tilt would 'work' during attract mode)

6)
Built-in switch test will display ALL closed
switches, not just the lowest numbered one, to assist
in finding switch matrix issues. All closed switches
will show one at a time and each run through will end
with a zero flashing in the ball in play display to
indicate that the entire switch matrix has been scanned.

7)
On ball launch the drop banks are polled to see if
any targets are down and if none are, the drop reset
is skipped.

Changes related to DIP switches:

Background sound dip #8 changed to match manual.

Dip 8 on=background sound on
Dip 8 off=background sound off

Max credits always 99. Dips 18 and 19 repurposed.

Dip 19 is now freeplay on/off.

Dip 18 now controls a temporary lighting of all
3 cards once you roll over the lane behind the GA
standup targets. After a short time, the lit cards
will return to their previous state.

Dip 24, previously unused

On=Automatically change lit bingo cards per pattern
set by Dip 23 after a short time interval. Change
cards on playfield will still change the cards.
Off=No change from stock.

Dips 25/26 for max lines function changed.

On 5 ball play, manual description matches mod, you can
select balls 2,3,4, or 5 for the 5k/line bonus.

On 3 ball play, set dips the same way as for 5 ball
but subtract one, so you can set 5k/line bonus
on balls 1, 2, or 3. (i.e. set to '2' to get '1'
on 3 ball play)

Dips 15-16 HSTD credits now repurposed.

Dip 16 is HSTD award

On=award 3 replays
Off=novelty mode (HSTD still recorded, but no replays)

Dip 15 is now a bonus removal setting.

On=Remove all bonus ball to ball
Off=Leave bonus ball to ball (stock)

Dip 14, previously unused

On=Remove reserve bonus on next ball, if lit
Off=Reserve bonus carries ball to ball (stock)

Thoughts from watching the stream.... If people do not consider the credit display sacrosanct, I can very easily have the left spinner counter populate the credit display, and the right spinner counter populate the ball in play display.

I did indeed spot the bug where the timer fuzzed out for the card changes. Speculative that it was caused by the lack of thread space to run (the game can only process so many switches, and the timed routines are seen by the OS as virtual switches.... so it probably just discarded them. Physical switches take precedence in processing, and I think the columns are processed 0-4, then the virtual columns 5-7.) The thread itself is responsible for resetting its own timer, so if it expired and never ran, it would never try again (until the next ball, where the timer gets an initial setting by the ball launch routines.)

I think the timer for the triple card lighting is almost exactly what I was going for - it's a carrot for fast react flippers to try and get the triple, vs. the hold and shoot people. I will make it very slightly longer in the next rev so you have a chance to at least get something, but it'll help train you in getting that shot off quickly. Almost all the code I write for games includes some variant of this fast react rule somewhere.

Now, the bugs that you didn't spot but I did:
[1]
Triple was lit and left spinner rip into the saucer, triple expired as it should and turned the card to its previous value, but then it changed back into a triple. I think something might have overflowed into that timer and it's very possible the stock code uses the spinner display timer but doesn't have a routine attached to it (the saucer timer would be the suspect here). Not an issue since I can use another timer instead (there's about 8 free timers in big game). (The saucer uses a timer but there's no virtual switch code attached to it.)

The saucer should actually pause until all the spins are completed. This didn't happen... the saucer would score while the spinner was lazily spinning a couple times at the end. This is stock behavior, though, since a counter wasn't envisioned here. I was watching the spinner count and the score very carefully a couple times to make sure the spinner score was adding in unison with the counter - there's no way it really couldn't because the spinner code is literally now:

spinner entry->count the spin->determine if score is 200/2k (lamp lit) and score it.

[2]
The bonus resetting on the next ball, shows all your bonus then clears it as it launches the ball. It should be a little cleaner and not even show what you HAD. It's sloppy the way it ended up.

[3]
Reported as a bug but can't actually be one - the lack of lighting on the 3x lamp. Proven when you went into lamp test and it wasn't lighting.... the lamp test portion of the code just lights every single lamp. Also, when you earned the 3x and it paid it out, the code knew the 3x was lit since that's actually how the game knows to score 3x, just from the status of the lamp. There's no separate counter for this, so your lamp/led, socket, etc. is in play here.

[4]
Spins stayed on display after a quick drain until next ball start. Spins disappeared after a quick drain on last ball to match display.

[5]
There is a possibility that the bingo line bonus is NOT working as intended. Can you double check this? Dips 25 and 26 should be off.

I was pretty concerned something was wrong with the free play/credit display as you kept getting credits, however looks like you have your replay levels set to 30k, 40k, 50k with your knocker disconnected. Thankfully the 99 credits stuck as the "max" and didn't rollover to 00 which is what used to happen with sloppy coding. However, not a bug since I watched your score carefully to see the 30k start (most people set it to 10k when they do this)

[6]
You drained once with the triple cards lit - next ball, the triple card was still lit (but changed immediately on entry into the top lanes). This was actually pretty lucky you didn't get a random result as the card counter likely was set to an invalid value. This might also be related to the saucer triple re-light, if it turns out to not be the timer (which I'm almost positive it can't be but have to double check.) Although, the 'next value' in the card sequence is where I stuck the triple card data, so if the counter overflowed from 7 to 8 (it should never beit might have pulled the data from there. I'll double check that as well.

[7]
Not a bug and you didn't mention it, but the match display at bootup shows the version # of the software. '04' in your case. Ed's game has '05', and the next revision will be '06'. I skip the decades (10, 20, etc.) so it's not confused with the match display. I do this on all my software mods.

Planned updates:

5x is already in play, Ed Owens has that for his greyhound conversion game. His rom also has the triple card timer doubled but that's going to be nerfed in rev 6, I'm going to change the triple factor from $60 to $65 or maybe $70. He's testing this rev 5 this weekend.

Rev 6 will have the 5x if it's working and the following changes and possibly others:

1) spinner sanity re: drains/game over.
2) bonus display next ball fix
3) slightly longer triple timer
4) switches that change the cards will also reset the auto card timer (actually, it will just increase it a few ticks, this will both delay the NEXT card change very slightly, and also take care of the bug you ran into, at least if it happens again, the next card change will start the sequence again).
5) triple lit quirks will be quashed
6) Saucer and outhole will wait for spinner(s) to finish before counting bonus/big game letters.
7) Game over will wait until spinner to finish (should be taken care of by the outhole routine until you tilted)

Speaking of tilt, what happened when you tested it with the spinner display? Did it leave it and just time it out? I can see a timeout sanity check needing to be added for the spinner display - it's the same type of timed virtual switch that the card change is, and if it gets missed.... you got a very strange # on the display (at least until the next ball or spinner rip)

You had the Z card once lit with X as the pattern and it gave me a goofy idea to make the bonus multiplier match the card symbol - you got X on X, you got Y on Y, Z on Z.... it would have been neat in 1980 if they had actually done if this way. The way it's done stock is fine though so I'm not going to change that.

Finally, last mod will be
Game will autodetect if its running on a Weebly board, and if so will add top spin counts to the high score table, and possibly add in either a 'low score to date' (I have this on my night rider and it's hilarious to reset it before a party and award someone the low man of the night award), or keep track of 4 high scores. There's not a lot of room left in the rom to do this though unless I also take advantage of the expanded rom on that board - but then Andrew can't ship an extended rom variant with his board since I think the combo rom only can switch in 2x2732 sized images.

I agree, but you do need time to glance at the spinner count which is why it holds it for a couple seconds after the last spin before going back to the normal ball in play.

With a fair amount of rewriting I can wrangle 4 free ram locations that currently are utilized improperly (they are what would be considered a blinking of an unseen lamp which is used as a flag in the game.... i.e. they are meaningless and would never be populated.) I'm actually very surprised that with ram being extremely precious in this era of game that they didn't rework it way back when.... the fix is literally only a couple bytes..... BUT it has to be done in several routines.

I'd use 2 of these bytes to handle the spinner count instead of the actual display ram, that way it could change the display back and forth from the spinner to the ball in play instead of waiting until the end. I kind of like that way it is now, but I also like programming challenges, so I might look into this, but only after I fix the notes from above.

Works fine on Andrews you just have to combine the rom differently.

Alltek is a different story - they don't share the format of their eprom. I asked a couple years ago and was told no. That's not to say it's too hard to figure out, but it voids the warranty.

Since there's only one display available for spins, I made a decision that if the right is the only one going, that's going to show, but the left being the more important shot that will take priority.

What you can do for the videos is run a video while you are playing and if you run into an issue clip that portion out or about 30 seconds on either side of it for review. Basically what was new on v5 was the 5x scoring and the much longer timeout (since re-shortened) of the triple card lighting. Erik has the v6 replacement which rolled all the small things I noticed from his video into the fixes. Most of them were really preferences of mine to make the results be more polished.

Originally I was only going to do a one off spinner count rom for Cotton I had no idea people were so into that. Probably should add it to other Stern games like meteor, stars, and nine ball.

To do so would require a software clock which currently doesn't exist as it does in other makers' games (williams). I'd have to look at what Bally did with Vector to get the timing going. This might fall into the category of 'the juice isn't worth the squeeze' though - for instance, because the credit display is derived from 2 separate bytes of ram, to put the counter on the left display was an extra several steps of processing on each and every spin, so I decided to just leave it the way it is. It did tell me I need to juice my spinner up a little as I was getting between 20-30 on each instead of the 35-45 that Chuck got on his. Time to clean the spinner wires... it's probably been at least 15 years since I did it last.

You can always change that plastic post to the thinner bobbin type if you need more room for the bracket.

I shoehorned a cut down williams lane guide from a firepower underneath there a long time ago and I forget what I used on the left side, another random williams lane guide. I should be in for a set of whatever you come up with so that it doesn't look so hacky. (It works great.... when I had the originals in there you could trap a ball under the upper flipper and tilt and then the game was dead..... the mean things we used to do as kids to break games on location....)

They look nice I think I should finally replace my hacked in Williams lane guides with something better. My originals weren't busted, oddly, but I didn't like the way they worked - I think you should be able to let the upper flipper rest on the ball next to the guide and the natural spring return should push it out (otherwise, you could catch the ball under the flipper and tilt and not be able to get the ball out on location)

Over the next couple days the new version of the big game code will be posted to:
http://tsqmadness.com/games/roms/index.aspx

Thanks to Coyote for hosting files so people can get these easily.

See if there's anything on the cabinet flipper buttons shorting them out. Sometimes a sneak short gets in there from metal dust.

The modified romset that was discussed a couple pages ago is posted at:
https://sites.google.com/site/allentownpinball/galaxy-asm/biggame7d.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/big-game-club-the-safari-has-started/page/21#post-5572519

91 is really good, and from your stream a while back, you were getting in the 40-50 range. I was getting about 40 so I cleaned and lubed mine and I almost get that. Slam tilt just streamed it the other day and he needs to fix his spinners because most of the time he was getting between 5-12.

I turned over my Meteor counter in testing. It was 2 rips but >100 spins.... sweet.
I had a double rip on Dragonfist too that ended up being 112 spins.... probably due to the proximity of the spinner to the very strong flippers.
I've gotten 60-80 regularly on flight 2000, but that's both spinners adding vs. the priority system in big game, which there's not enough timers on flight to implement.

Is that with the latest mod version 7d? I'd added code to specifically check the spinner timers, like later games (stock) do.

Grab some video if you can I'll have to see it in action. Did the spinner count stay on the display when the ball drained?

ok, it was 'one level removed' from where I thought it was. Can you burn roms yourself? I can't test the fix right now because all the stuff that's involved with the f2k testing is blocking access to the biggame - if you can burn, PM your email and I'll send you a beta to try out.

Basically, the outhole routine was turning off the active game flag, which the spinners test to see if they should even score. So I reversed the order of that happening, don't let the active game flag get cleared until the scoring events are finished.

NP - I'll see if I can get over to mine at some point.

I just got >100 between 2 monster spins on F2k this morning. I'll have to play more Meteor as I know that spinner screams as well. Working on getting a secondary camera so I can make videos with both the playfield and the BG showing.

The spinner can't score after the outhole routine starts to run. Later stern games take this into account. Stern software is pretty player friendly with this and the tilt through. If you got to the next ball with spinner still spinning it would start to score on that player while the ball was launching.

Your buddy should be able to erase them and reburn them.

https://sites.google.com/site/allentownpinball/galaxy-asm/biggame7d.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

$300 game for me

Manual's description of background sound on/off is wrong - opposite of what described, unless you have modified software in it, where it is corrected or always on.

If you're going to do it, do the whole guide - the proto 'look' doesn't really matter to me but seems like people want the no hop guide part.

chuckwurt do you have the proper flipper bats on your game - those look like the fatter Bally profile ones - one of the symptoms - flipper hop!

Otherwise pull that guide fill it and drill it then reinstall. Flipper hop is eminently fixable relatively easily.

Sometimes you have to move the flipper mech in the PF which is the most involved it'll end up being, but flipper hop sucks and is worth pursuing fixes.

I know it's not a popular option for most people, but I make both flippers on all my double flipper games go at the same time. Most say I'm risking popping the solenoid fuse but it hasn't happened yet and I'm avoiding the lag present otherwise.

The acid test for any type of machine mechanical rebuild is have children 5-9 over after you rebuild stuff so they can flap the flippers as fast as they can while the ball is no where near it. Best test ever. You get lots of 4 player games started that are abandoned on ball 2

Depends on what I'm doing with the game (full rebuild/pf swap) - usually I just adjust the moving blade to always be closed. The correct orientation would have been to have them adjusted REALLY closely, which most people don't do. The original intention I believe was to prevent the sagging voltage and stress on the solenoid bridge - and with most people having upgraded those beyond the 8amp original, I think it's ok.

I think it's done the way it is so that game downtime in the field is reduced by erring on the side of less load is better. Too bad they didn't apply that to lamp connections!

Usually what happens is they sit there or flip as fast as possible to 'get it over with'. It can really help your game!

That gives me an idea for a software mod on it - only do it on the last ball of the game instead of after every ball.

I didn't overly dislike the game when I owned it - I just didn't have it as a 'go to' game - and the main reason was the lack of being able to collect the locks vs. banking them in. The rest of the game was good for sure especially the collection of the grid at the correct times, but by far it was the least played game in the gameroom for many years before I decided to sell it. I realized the only time I played it was before parties to make sure it worked.

The bagatelle only on the last ball. It's been several years since I've played/had one so maybe that is too radical.

Lightning screams out for a no-relock during multiball as well. It really was the worst part of all the multiball stern games - especially the ones where the ball lands in the locks by chance more than anything.

I got REALLY good at the bagatelle (even getting the flip down to hit B and C, lighting it correctly first of course.) Weak players would generally have no idea what to do in the bagatelle and just flip away until another ball pops up in the shooter lane. (Maybe not 'weak' - more 'casual' i.e. the ones who think there's no rules to the game).

Tournament players probably would like it because hey, let's light the spinner and hit it over and over again, ignoring the rest of the playfield. I consistently beat tournament players who think there's only one viable strategy on stern games.

They put a crazy amount of stuff in the game that's for sure, narrow body with 4 3 banks and a ton of lamps right near them.

Big Game is the game that they changed from gen 1 to gen 2..... have gotten different games with either installed.

Unless you turn the bonus resetting off. I know you like that rule since you requested it IIRC - I still have mine set to carry bonus over so in theory it should be easier to complete 2x cards, but rarely in practice does this happen.

There was definitely something added to reset the timer, although looking at the code for it, it's "possible" but highly unlikely that enough of the change card hits could make the timer "00" which would stop it moving. But, that same code would then add 3 to the timer which would start it again on the next hit of a change card.

I didn't record which revision this was added to, but D was the last posted one. I need to put E into my machine to test the spinner timeout issue mistake I made (the game is supposed to wait for spinners to stop before counting bonus/ending ball, but the coding error cleared it before testing it....) in earlier versions, and also to double test the replay setting backwards with slam switch feature. Then it will get posted. Maybe this weekend if I can get the 3-4 machines out from in front of BG.

Big Game version 8 slight update:
https://sites.google.com/site/allentownpinball/galaxy-asm/BIGGAME-V8.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

This adds a correction to the auto card change counter to ensure it cannot timeout and never change
Also, a correction to the order of operations of the spinner timeout and the outhole, so that a spinning spinner will finish before the outhole routine runs.
Also, you can now hold the slam switch in during replay level setting to go backwards by 10k instead of forwards when pressing the credit button.

Other changes listed in previous messages here as well as in the readme including in the download.

https://sites.google.com/site/allentownpinball/galaxy-asm/BIGGAME-V8.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

The latest code, if you don't have it. V08 on the match display on bootup.

yes, it's included in the zip file. Likely there will be at least one more revision now that I have a way to count the spinners individually relatively easily, and I'd like to add the saving of the high spins.

Yes 5x is in the rules now. I forget if it's selectable though. I thought I made most of the options that way.
I'll watch the video tomorrow and see what happens with the special.

update, 5x is permanent, no dip for that one. There's a dearth of dips available for mods I watched the very short clip you posted and then went into the main stream and at 14:20, the outlane special doesn't look lit nor does it look like you had enough of the cards completed for it to be so.

the 20:00 mark post doesn't even have you at the machine. If you can correct time stamps on either please update. I looked at the coding for the special payouts and it's not something I actually touched.

Just tested it and it's paying the 100k. Try with glass off. Make sure your dips are working as well - I've had boards where the dips just didn't do anything because they were either shorted or damaged inside.

Makes me want to implement the dip switch test I wrote for something a long time ago but the lack of 8 digits displays stopped me.

It will tag into the dips that control the special limits for sure. If you have set to 1/ball or 1/game for instance. I don't think you can eliminate that though, it's a hard limit on the dips. No dips left to change that.

I didn't see the special lit at the 14:20 drain though was it somewhere else?

Also if this is relevant - the special score gets adds to the score queue, NOT scored immediately, so if there's lots of 'other' stuff happening when you hit the special, it will delay until the score queues get serviced.

There's nothing in the special code that cuts out on high scoring games. (or anywhere else....)

That column also has the cabinet switches.

Coin door and cabinet wiring is on that column as well. Start a game and disconnect the cabinet connector j3 see if the spinners work then.

If it's the flat style plate that's stock, the PF is recessed to allow that. Big Game is the game that part of the run is the gen1 flat style and the latter part is the gen2 offset plates.

At least that's how I remember it! Been a LLLOOONG time since I've dealth with gen1 plates, I always replace those with the offset style.

Both. Early ones had gen 1 and they switched to gen 2 midway through the run.

You can put them in there there's a mix of parts you have to use I forget what i used as I did this upgrade about fifteen years ago.

All the Stern Gen 1 games I've taken apart seem to have them. The Gen 2, no.

Put a secondary high voltage flipper switch in place on the cabinet for each side, and then remove (or just bend out of the way) the secondary end of stroke. You'd have to run a separate wire for the flipper switch. The issue is going to be the separation through the flipper relay, right now it's one circuit for each side, and that needs to become 2. The relay needs 4 separate circuits to do this.

I'm curious as to why you want to do this since Big Game isn't multiball staging seems like it wouldn't be used much. I know williams did it on single ball games like Alien Poker and Pokerino, but I think their dual flipper setup was a way to incorporate the extra flipper(s) without adding an extra end of stroke to activate the 'other' flipper like bally/stern did. Just a bonus that you could stage as well.

Adding the ability to stage is just going to enable players that can do it to play even longer. I'd just make it scissor and forget it.

You can pull posts and adjust the ball guides to funnel the balls out to reduce ball time.

Yep pull em out....

It's the insulation in the wire breaking down you have to cut back far enough where it's not coating the wires.

You'll have to scrape it off the wire strands when you put a new connector on. It's a pita to deal with. You can sometimes see it on each wire strand.

It's better than alkaline damage creeping up the wire at least.

never worry about a socket/bulb again
not sure where you're pricing yopps but they are less than a socket and led bulb - 50 in cool white are $45.00.

The biggest advantage for me on LEDs is the heat savings parties used to get over ninety but now with mostly LEDs temp stays twenty degrees cooler.

The best thing to do with this is to disassemble your existing stack and the new switches, and swap the blades over. That way your spacing and lifters are correct.

You can also wire them up to use a single EOS and just parallel it. The original purpose of that double stack is to let the double stack flipper activate first, then activate the next flipper to reduce stress on the bridge rectifiers. Since most people now have 35amp bridges on their rectifier boards vs. the original 8amp ones, not as needed. Also Stern games specifically spec out larger fuses on the solenoid circuit to handle the extra flippers, and I feel response time is better with parallel wiring.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/9/97/Stern-parts-catalog-1981.pdf

See page 29 for the flipper parts which does show the secondary switch if you still want the original part numbers. I find swapping the blades over easier than trying to source the 'correct' parts (which are just someone somewhere's attempt to duplicate the original stuff.) At this point I usually just make my own using parts from pinball resource when I need new switches, yeah, it doesn't look 'original' - but it works great and is much cheaper than buying something already made up.

The solenoid wiring gets paralleled from that flipper with the double stack to the next one down so that the secondary EOS switch (which actually closes at the first flipper's full stroke) is not used to switch the voltage to that lower solenoid. Then you just use one normally closed EOS switch on each flipper in that chain.

It's actually the equivalent of having that secondary normally open switch closed all the time, so you can keep the switch and wiring intact and just jumper that switch closed all the time. This is the way gottlieb did it on their multi flipper games and it works just fine. For multiball games I'd say stick with the staged flipper setup as you can do more flipper tricks, but for single ball games I want the instant response.

The manual for the sound is backwards but has been corrected on some replacement roms which are included on some boards.

You shouldn't. The roughest I'd use is a pencil eraser. Anything else will take off the gold plating. If the gold plating is gone (likely) you will get the symptoms you're describing, clean, works, stops working, clean, works, stops, etc.

Replace a minimum the switch contacts with new (pinball resource has them they are easy to install) or replace the entire blade, or the entire switch.

Like that pesky gold plating?

You must have the dullest file or the lightest touch. I reserve my ignition points file for the high voltage tungsten contacts.

Are we talking file or burnishing tool? (Although bally etc back in the day recommended nothing abrasive at all.)

Someone way back when (RGP) said the pencil eraser was too harsh when I pointed out that I used that occasionally.

How does a business card leave anything behind??

They're probably burnishing tools then.

Difficult and risky, maybe if it's the last letter to go to the next level. I know a lot of people play the game specifically to collect the letters in the saucer, but I actually try and complete the cards. With the new old-style software you do need to spell big game to get 5x if you are installing that. (Not the arduino one, the one that goes onto eproms on the original board).

I do like games that give you more than one path for success.

ok, so pins 1-4 are all grounds. Pin 5 is +230v. So your display voltage regulator + acted on the ground for the switched lamps. Pin 11 is the GI bus, you put that in 12, which is the solenoid +43 volts. This combination is likely what caused a lot of things to blow up.

I would start fresh and treat this as a unknown condition project you've just acquired, with the power up procedure on pinwiki..... Nothing plugged in to any boards except j2 on the rectifier board, get that solid. Connect only the solenoid driver board after that's solid. Then move onto the mpu. Leave the lamp driver and sound boards for last.

Having a retro chip tester would help with the mpu chips but most are probably toast.

break in the hold winding from vibration

If it's the power feed wire end it doesn't matter the last coil in the chain only gets one because it's not feeding another coil.

The pins are just short pins like under the slings, but shorter.

I figured blue arrow based on how he described it. the green arrow ones attach to the posts.

Oh and Coyote the upper flippers should have a piece of metal there so the ball can't drain on a bottom flipper cradle. I've never seen a ball bounce up and get stuck where you had it otherwise, but I replaced my broken metal pieces with cut down williams system 6 lane guides so I have a solid barrier top and bottom.

Galaxy
Ali
Hot hand
Dracula
Wild fyre
Flight 2000
Split second

I think Dragon meant the only hw game he had was big game. Big game is good best imo and I have mine right next to flight.

Running v12 code....
https://tsqmadness.com/slochar/ZIP/

This is what changed between v8 and the later ones

; v9

; may,sept 2021 additional commenting

; 2021.09.02 add sound commands in/big game has a hybrid between later games and earlier games for setting timers directly
; 2021.09.15 change solenoid test to reflect timing
; 2021.09.22 andrew reported stuck outhole switch causes solenoid fuse to blow as banks keep resetting

; v11

; added revamped routines to save space in 7 digit display crawl
; changed some routines to save space (extra ball/special blinker carryovers)

; v12//2023.12.15

; BUG: Background sound when set to off would still play it until first scoring, where it would then kill itself
; added additional background sound dip check within sound routines to really quash background - missed first times around

The main change is the solenoid test had too long of a dwell time so could blow your solenoid fuse, and the background sound bug. Stock routines checked it in 2 locations and I'd only ever changed one and no one noticed for a couple years (probably because we all have bg sound ON, and the bug was noticed by someone who wanted background sound OFF).

That depends on how the existing routine is written. I think they've got something in there to prevent it from re-scoring the big game letters since it doesn't do that.... if it's a reactionary routine might be able to be changed to have a delay between tries. I think the plastic is just too low there to act as a ball guide and a saucer kicker just isn't a precision device - I might try making a stacked plastic for the area to raise up the artwork plastic and have a ball guide like cottonm4 did, if there's room. That should solve the power robbing problem.

Until Andrew gets v12 in the combo board there's going to be an idiosyncrasy with the background sound. Never noticed in many rounds of testing on my game, Andrew's game, and chuckwurt 's game (who suggested most of the rules changes).

It's me missing a second check for the dip setting re: the background sound starting when it shouldn't. v12 should fix this. Does it not? IIRC barakandl tested the updated v12 rom and it was ok. I have yet to get to my machine to put it in though (emergency rearrangement of pins in basement last month prevents me getting to many games....)

http://tsqmadness.com/slochar/ZIP/

latest versions always there. I don't post the direct links to the file as the filenames themselves will change over time as new releases are put up and the older ones replaced that way there won't be a dead link.

Also, it will show on bootup the version number in the match display, so you can test your machine directly without taking out rom chips. If it doesn't show the version number there it's not one of my rom mods.

That's what I did as well got mine a couple months ago but be a while before I get to it have two other swaps to finish up.

The eight ball swap is going on eleven years should really finish that one.

I have several pfs torn down as well just for cleaning and rebuilding.... need to get back to those too.....