(Topic ID: 346558)

Big Fan of IM - Will I like Turtles?

By Retro4Life

8 months ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Retro4Life
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 8 months ago

I was hoping to get some feedback from the community on a potential TMNT premium purchase. I currently have a small lineup of four pins. My favorite is still my first pin which was IM-VE. Even after adding a GZ prem and Foo pro to my lineup IM makes me smile. I think I like the simplicity, low scoring, and fast ball times of IM vs a game like GZ. Don't get me wrong, both Foo and GZ are great fun and more favored by my wife, but there is just something inherent about IM that keeps me hitting that start button just one more time.

Is it fair to say that if I like IM gameplay, then I "should" like TMNT since they are both Borg designs? Obviously, it's purely subjective, but this will be a relative "blind" buy and obviously even while on sale, these things aren't cheap. Does anyone here own or have owned both that can provide some insight? It seems TMNT is one of the more polarizing titles with people either loving it or abhorring it.

I know TWD and Tron are Borg titles that are continually raved about, but the TWD theme is a no go with the wife/grandkids and Tron is just ridiculously expensive these days. I would love to own one as it's such a cool theme and shooter, but I could never pay that much for any pinball machine (no offense).

I have to admit that the sale pricing is pulling me hard like a moth to an open flame on this one. Used or full MSRP would not have me considering another pin this soon. I have played TMNT a handful of times when I was on vacation this summer and remembered liking it, but my overall playtime was sparse, and I was buzzed. Turtles seems like a logical choice but as the market continues to cool, I don't want to pick a dud that I either don't like and/or would take a bath on down the road if I ended up flipping it.

Does Borg "DNA" transfer amongst his designs? If you like one, is there a good chance you will like his others or is that a rookie, n00b assumption/mistake? I would like to get some more time on one, but they are selling out at this pricing, so I need to call the ball on this soon.

#2 8 months ago

Yeah dude I think you’ll like it
Go for it

#3 8 months ago

I have had both and would say the only thing similar is the speed, other than that, not really similar at all.

I like the simplicity of IronMan, Turtles was a bit over the top for me rules-wise.

I like Turtles, it is surprisingly fast and fun, but it was anything but simple like Ironman is.

I think from a code perspective the easiest Spike for me to understand is Munsters.

#4 8 months ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/john-borg

Here are all his games. I like most Steve Ritchie Games, Lawlor games, Gomez Games, and Borg games. If you like one of their games you will likely like others. But beware that some of these (like Munsters) are very different than the others.

However, Iron Man is hard, and so is TMNT, so the odds are fairly good you will like it.

#5 8 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Does Borg "DNA" transfer amongst his designs? If you like one, is there a good chance you will like his others or is that a rookie, n00b assumption/mistake?

Borg doesn't have a DNA, he replicates other DNA.
the biggest thing with Borg was he was often paired with Lyman on code, the GOAT, and those are some of the greatest games ever...TWD, TRON...etc.
TMNT was a semi decent machine for me. It has some, not all fo sho, interesting rules, but the layout and the way it shoots just wasn't my favorite. I've often said the behind the flipper shot is the best shot on the game which isn't a good sign.

It's fucking fast and brutal though. As you learn going forward most games are not keepers. Pick one up & not over pay and them sell it in a year for a bit of a loss. No big whoop

#6 8 months ago

I think tmnt is a harder game than IM, at least for me. I really like both, and while kinda sorta similar, they are pretty different. That said, if you like fast and brutal games that arent overly complex, then you will like it.

#7 8 months ago

Paging Pinbolls for your advice!

#8 8 months ago

More than anything I commend you on thinking aboot things the right way with designers instead of Themes!

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

More than anything I commend you on thinking aboot things the right way with designers instead of Themes!

I kind of agree with the aforementioned quote. But, for me personally, theme is huge (and is huge for a lot of us....look at all the theme related threads). I think TMNT is a lot of fun, but the theme and color-explosion playfield aren't my cup of tea. Another Borg theme that comes to mind is Rush. That theme alone split the pin community into two camps...love it or can't stand it. Not much middle ground with that title. As for gameplay...that game is a lot of fun. A great Borg design imho.

#10 8 months ago

I love IM, and I'm not that thrilled with Turtles. I've had Turtles in my gameroom for a few months, and I just have not found the love for it.

(That is no surprise for me, I tend to either get enthralled with games or they are just making a stopover. Fortunately this was a temporary swap, so it is no loss.)

#11 8 months ago
Quoted from gandamack:

...That theme alone split the pin community into two camps...

Well, it pits the theme whore community against each other
Theme of Iron Maiden, a dreadfull music offering, doesn't pit us against each other; it's a great game we love! (I assume)

#12 8 months ago

I was scanning the thread tiles and this immediately went through my mind upon reading it.

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Theme of Iron Maiden, a dreadfull music offering, doesn't pit us against each other; it's a great game we love! (I assume)

Automatic pass (it's an Elwin).

#14 8 months ago

I agree with the other opinions that TMNT doesn't really feel similar to Iron Man at all. They share the low scoring and fast ball times, but that's about it. The layouts are totally different - TMNT is about ramps and flow shots, Iron Man is about standup targets and bash toys shooting back at you. And Turtles has a modern complicated rules structure compared to Iron Man's simplicity.

A fair bit of the dislike for Turtles is the audiovisual package - the cartoon/comic art doesn't animate smoothly and the voice acting feels off and forced. Up to you whether that bothers you. (Or there's also unofficial replacement code with media from the old cartoon series instead.)

#15 8 months ago

Thanks everyone. After reading all the feedback, I have decided to hold off on buying Turtles until I can get some more play time on one. I may miss the sales price on NIB, but they have been readily available used around the same price point.

#16 8 months ago

Consider the tmnt pro if you decide to look for a turtles. The pro has a lot of features and feels very complete.

I had a pro for a while, decent game with some depth in rules. In my opinion the game suffers from some ttight shots that make consistent flow difficult and the outlanes that feel annoying at times.

No regrets selling it off for a Deadpool.

#17 8 months ago

I liked turtles for the honeymoon, but ultimately it's difficulty ruined the title for amateurs and pros alike. The game just isn't fun, it has the perfect geometry midfield to cause outlane and center drains, over and over again. Don't get it.

#18 8 months ago

I own TMNT, think it's amazing. Owned a pro when it first got released, kinda hated it and traded it away. Started playing more on location and understanding more about the rules, took the plunge on a premium and have no regrets. Code is pretty deep, the game is brutal, but has that one more game feel. Will the recent drop in the premium I think it's a hell of a buy compared to other nib out there.

#19 8 months ago

maybe X-men? Similar playfield ( TMNT, Rush, Tron) but with a ”not too complex” code.

#20 8 months ago

I have a Pro. I enjoy it enough, but I prefer more difficult games. I have Foo and prefer TMNT over that. I also really enjoy IM and would maybe get it back one day.

The ruleset is fine, the shots are a little bit more difficult for a Borg game, but still has the Borg feel. The cartoon code makes the game a ton better. People don't like it because it's difficult and scoring is low, but if you try to go for progression ( like I do whenever I play at home) then it can be really fun, despite what the score says. I think the prices will dip a bit more before settling out or going back up. This generally happens with Stern games. You can get a pro for a good price right now, probably less than 6k.

#21 8 months ago

I loved TMNT at first due to the speed and brutality. Then, it started to actually break me down to submission. So much I started making bad excuses of why it was a bad game such as poor theme, bad animations, no good rules, etc… which were just not true. And the truth of the matter is, I just needed to play better. I let it sit unplayed for a few weeks. Then just recently I revisited it; started to explore more of the code and opportunities it provides and let the game take me on an adventure rather trying to force it to take me on an adventure. For weeks, I have been hooked and couldn’t stop playing it. It is quickly climbing the charts of top pins for me. There is so much to do, satisfying shots, great flow, and a great supporting ruleset. It’s truly a hidden gem.

I do feel the premium is the way to go on this one as the diverter adds so much flow and player interaction. The other features of the premium are also a nice touch of personality that adds to the gameplay and experience.

Ironman is great but it’s very one dimensional whereas TMNT has all sorts of ways to play. Both are some of the hardest pins around, but TMNT just offers way more long term. Just be prepared to get your nuts punched.

#22 8 months ago

TMNT update.

I took the day off and went to a place in Austin yesterday that has a flat fee with open play that had a TMNT and some other titles that I have been wanting to play. I arrived shortly after they opened, so it was fairly empty until around 4pm when people started trickling in after leaving the office. I was able to get a lot of plays in. They had a great lineup of modern Sterns. Although I enjoyed TMNT while playing it, it wasn't one of the titles that I kept coming back to. There were three Sterns that kept me coming back for more. Stranger Things, Zeppelin, and wait for it......Venom. The non-Sterm game that had me pushing the start button over an over was Cactus Canyon. Wow, what a fun game!

Venom (premium) was by far my favorite - such a fast and fun game. I didn't really know the rules but it was an absolute blast to me. On Stranger Things, I just don't think the Demogorgon shot could ever get old to me - it is just so satisfying for my inner 12 year old self when hit. I enjoyed that shot as much as "Goal!" on WCS94. Zeppelin was just smooth. Although the play-field is glaringly barren/wide open, it just has that old-school flow/vibe from EM early SS days. At least to me it did. Either way, it surprised me because I was expecting to not like it based on the negative reviews. I would enjoy owning it.

The biggest surprise of the day was JP and DP. I just didn't enjoy shooting those pins as much as I was anticipating. Don't get me wrong, they were fun but not something I would own. I had set very high expectations for both of those titles. Its funny how subjectivity varies so vastly within pinball. I prefer a pin that is often touted as one of Stern's worst ranked way down the line over titles that are often deemed creme of the crop. Turtles was fun but Venom and Stranger Things are in front of it for my room. All in all, it was well worth the 4.5 hour round trip drive to play all afternoon.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide some feedback.

#23 8 months ago

While I also think that venom is surprisingly good, I would say this:

How you set up a machine, 'dial it in' can make a ridiculously large difference in the way the game plays.

So, always keep in mind that if a game seems unimpressive, maybe it's not level, maybe it's too fast, or not fast enough, maybe the slingshots are too sensitive and don't let you get control of the game, or the side posts are allowing you to drain down the side to often. Heck, in a commercial setting they might have the rules of the game set too hard or too easy.

Lots and lots of things can be tweaked to make for a really amazing game experience, or a slightly disappointing game experience, so don't give up on a game after trying it at a single commercial location.

At my level of skill, I can practice and memorize the shots on a pinball. I can get quickly to the point where I can make the shot I'm interested in.

But multiballs still challenge me. So I like games right now that have important multiballs, like Bram Stokers Dracula.

And Turtles. Turtles is ALL about the multiball after multiball.

I also like that Turtles allows you to start with the 'end game' and start with a CRAZY multiball experience right away when you first press start. Just the thing to go downstairs, start a game and be right in the middle of some of the most frantic action in pinball!

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

TMNT update.
I took the day off and went to a place in Austin yesterday that has a flat fee with open play that had a TMNT and some other titles that I have been wanting to play. I arrived shortly after they opened, so it was fairly empty until around 4pm when people started trickling in after leaving the office. I was able to get a lot of plays in. They had a great lineup of modern Sterns. Although I enjoyed TMNT while playing it, it wasn't one of the titles that I kept coming back to. There were three Sterns that kept me coming back for more. Stranger Things, Zeppelin, and wait for it......Venom. The non-Sterm game that had me pushing the start button over an over was Cactus Canyon. Wow, what a fun game!
Venom (premium) was by far my favorite - such a fast and fun game. I didn't really know the rules but it was an absolute blast to me. On Stranger Things, I just don't think the Demogorgon shot could ever get old to me - it is just so satisfying for my inner 12 year old self when hit. I enjoyed that shot as much as "Goal!" on WCS94. Zeppelin was just smooth. Although the play-field is glaringly barren/wide open, it just has that old-school flow/vibe from EM early SS days. At least to me it did. I felt like I could have been playing this type layout when Zep was on the radio. Maybe that was intentional. Either way, it surprised me because I was expecting to not like it based on the negative reviews. I only have room for a couple more pins, so I doubt Zeppelin would make the cut but I did enjoy shooting it.
The biggest surprise of the day was JP and DP. I just didn't enjoy shooting those pins as much as I was anticipating. Don't get me wrong, they were fun but not something I would own. I had set very high expectations for both of those titles. Its funny how subjectivity varies so vastly within pinball. I prefer a pin that is often touted as one of Stern's worst ranked way down the line over titles that are often deemed creme of the crop. Turtles was fun but Venom and Stranger Things are in front of it for my room. All in all, it was well worth the 4.5 hour round trip drive to play all afternoon.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide some feedback.

It’s funny, I was going to mention it in my ofirst post but didn’t want to hear the backlash. Venom reminds me a lot of a hybrid Ironman/stranger things, so not surprised you liked those. Stranger things may be the better buy with the vault around the corner and it’s code complete. Venom will be around for a long while, but hot dam is it addictingly fun.

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

It’s funny, I was going to mention it in my ofirst post but didn’t want to hear the backlash. Venom reminds me a lot of a hybrid Ironman/stranger things, so not surprised you liked those. Stranger things may be the better buy with the vault around the corner and it’s code complete. Venom will be around for a long while, but hot dam is it addictingly fun.

Haha - so your going to let me get slaughtered with the Venom love first

Like you, I don't understand the hate. You are spot on - its fast, fun, and addictive.

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