(Topic ID: 290854)

Big Chief start up issues

By Klokkie

1 year ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by HowardR
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#1 1 year ago

I have a Williams Big Chief with start up issues and ball step up.

uploaded is a video ( not to sharp ) with the issue

. Is there someone who knows what it could be, i am searching for already for some time but cannot find it. Everything cleaned already twice and did a check on all switches and found 2 mis alignments at the relay bank but this did not solved the problem.
What you see is happening when i do push the new game button at the front of the cabinet

Help.

Hans

#2 1 year ago

What's happening inside the machine when this happens?

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What's happening inside the machine when this happens?

Something is interrupting the reset/start process, so as HowardR notes, you need to lift the playfield and check the backbox to see which steppers, etc. are involved so you can track down the problem.

#4 1 year ago

I will try to make a new video tonight from the inside during start up

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Klokkie:

I will try to make a new video tonight from the inside during start up

You could just list what is going on.

#6 1 year ago

managed to make a new video from what is happening inside the cabinet when pushed the start button. You see that it never the same sequence..
What could it be.

See the link for the video

#7 1 year ago

Can you list what is happening in that vid, with specific coils, etc? It's very hard to tell.

#8 1 year ago

I assume that you are pressing the credit/start multiple times in that video, does the sequence ever repeat or finally complete? If it does it may be that the necessary reset/setup relays are not holding on. Possibly the score motor hold circuit isn't correct?

Are you working from a schematic or figuring it out as you go along?

1 month later
#9 1 year ago

Sorry for some delay in reacting , attached a little video on what is happening.

1 - press left flipper switch. (the lock relay pulled in but also the tilt switch)
2 - press the start button 1 time ( bank resets)
3 - press the start button for the 2nd time ( the game and 2nd coin relay are pulled in and then the bank resets )

When i hold the game relay then the 2nd coin relay pulls in and the machine works correctly.

Hopefully the video makes a bit clear. I have no idea any more.

The video :

2 weeks later
#10 1 year ago

Still trying to solve the reset / start up problem.

What i found out is that when the left flipper button is pressed the ball index relay is a fraction earlier energized then the lock relay.

Is this correct.

#11 1 year ago

the bank reset should probably only happen on the first coin.

it's hard to tell what's going on without knowing what the relays are, especially the relays in the bank. Can you post pictures of the relay labels for the bank and the long row of relays down the middle?

also a pic of what you are doing to the game relay. You're on the right track as the game relay controls the reset relay which controls the bank reset.

the score motor has a "service switch" ... you can open/unplug the motor then turn the cams by hand and see what happens in sequence. Don't stop turning the cams while the bank reset solenoid is powered or you'll blow that fuse.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

the bank reset should probably only happen on the first coin.
it's hard to tell what's going on without knowing what the relays are, especially the relays in the bank. Can you post pictures of the relay labels for the bank and the long row of relays down the middle?
also a pic of what you are doing to the game relay. You're on the right track as the game relay controls the reset relay which controls the bank reset.
the score motor has a "service switch" ... you can open/unplug the motor then turn the cams by hand and see what happens in sequence. Don't stop turning the cams while the bank reset solenoid is powered or you'll blow that fuse.

Thank you for the answer. I will make a writing of all the relay names tonight.

I have also put a video on line in the previous post and when you go frame by frame you see that the ball index relay is pulling in a fraction earlier then the lock relay when i push the left flipper button. I have the idea that the lock relay needs to pull in first.
When i push the start button the machine resets perfect but when i push the start button again ( 2 players ) the bank resets. The game relay( most left on the bank ) pulls in and the 2nd coin relay ( 3rd at the bank from the left ) at the same time and then the bank resets completly.

Maybe this helps already .

Hans

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

the bank reset should probably only happen on the first coin.
it's hard to tell what's going on without knowing what the relays are, especially the relays in the bank. Can you post pictures of the relay labels for the bank and the long row of relays down the middle?
also a pic of what you are doing to the game relay. You're on the right track as the game relay controls the reset relay which controls the bank reset.
the score motor has a "service switch" ... you can open/unplug the motor then turn the cams by hand and see what happens in sequence. Don't stop turning the cams while the bank reset solenoid is powered or you'll blow that fuse.

The relay names on the bank, looking from above and left to right

Game relay, game over relay ,2nd coin relay , 3rd coin relay , 4th coin relay

The relay names on the ground board from back to front

Coin relay (110 V) , Replay relay (110V) , reset relay , outhole relay , ball index relay , player reset relay , left target relay , lock relay, tilt relay

1 week later
#14 1 year ago

Oh yeah. The error is found. There was a wire on the game relay ( on the bank)solder on the wrong pins (black was on the wrong relay point).
There is no reset anymore when the 2nd player is added to the game. There is only an error when playing one player game. It stays in 1 ball and is not advancing to the second ball.
The biggest error is found and the Big Chief can be played

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#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Klokkie:

when playing one player game. It stays in 1 ball and is not advancing to the second ball.

If the Player Reset relay doesn't activate when the ball drains in a 1 player game, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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