(Topic ID: 220613)

Big Brave bonus problems

By Tomass

5 years ago


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#29 5 years ago

Hi Tomass +
I allow myself to write to Your post-26 (identifying switches on a relay).
In the schematics is a list of relays used - example: "3E G A9735 AG. 4A, IB, 3C 'G-Sequence-Relay' " means the Coil of the G-Relay is shown in the schematics at "3E" and the relay has four switches of type "A" - one switch of type "B" - three switches of type "C".
Type-A is "Normally-Open-Switch (closing when the relay actuates)"
Type-B is "Normally-Closed-Switch (opening when the relay actuates)"
Type-C is "three-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch - middle blade is moved when the relay actuates".
You are looking (post-25 and -26) for Type-B switch on the BX-Relay --- the list of relays in the schematics says: "14E BX 2A, 1B" - only ONE of the switches is an Normally-Closed Switch. Greetings Rolf

#33 5 years ago

Hi tomass
I would like to support HowardR and @MarkG. Schematics are drawn abstract - they do not show the "real" wiring in the pin. Gottlieb shows in the schematics no Jones-Plugs. I look at the JPG in post-3 and post-25. Not visible / a bit above the JPG is the Coil on L-1000-Point-Relay - also "Switch on LB-Double-Bonus-Relay".
I would like to learn where in the pin the interesting stuff is mounted - "MP is Mech-Panel in the Cabinet, BB is in the Backbox, PF is on the Playfield".
Score-Motor is on MP
LB-Relay is on MP
I assume AX-Relay is on MP ?
I assume BX-Relay is on MP ?
I assume L-Relay is on BB ?
I assume the Vari-Target is on PF ?
I assume Bonus-Unit is on PF ?
D-Relay is on ?
A-Relay is on ?

I do not like meters to measure Ohms / continuity - I like the SteveFury Test-Light: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 --- two car-bulbs of 12Volt put one behind the other to sum up to 24Volt. On top of my JPG I also show the Test-Light.
To clip-on the Test-Light or an Jumper-Wire: Some places are hard to get at - no room for the gator-clips --- HowardR once came up with a good help --- a "Safety Pin". Instead of clipping-on at the "Solder-Lug at the hard to get at place": The wire soldered-on runs away - 1 or 2 or 3 inches away from the Solder-Lug we push-in the Safety pin - almost parallel to the wire - the tip of the Safety Pin gets through the "fabric-insulation of the wire" - the tip of the Safety Pin has good contact to the metal-wire inside the fabric-insulation --- AND what we want to clip-on: We clip-on at the Safety Pin. (This procedure is tested and it works).
In the JPG I show from the manual "Surf Champ": In position "Motor-1C" there are mounted FIVE Switches in an Switchstack --- tomass: Do You have the manual and can show the page with the Motor-Switches - a big help to find the switches to check.
In the JPG I show the drawing of an Vari-Target --- in the schematics are wires of different colors - do You recognize wire-colors on wires on the Vari-Target in Your pin ?
Do You have some Jumper-Wires (with Gator-Clips) ? Greetings Rolf

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#39 5 years ago

Hi Tomass, MarkG +
"chiming in" is always problematic. I show the result - the Score-Motor-Switches on Big Brave --- the ones of interest have text "vari-target score control switch".

The JPGs in post-3 and post-25 show on the left "pulling D-Relay" and on the right "motor-1A does (when the motor makes a turn of 120 degrees) close the switch FIVE times. The other four motor-switches - every one of them opens at a time when motor-1A closes - suppressing flow of current --- so only the one / first closing of motor-1A is allowed to reach "Switch on pulling D-Relay".
Tomass gets no points when the Vari-Target is actuated --- but "at max" he gets the five bonus.
The first thing I woud check is the area (wires and switches) wire-YEL+BLK to motor-3C, this switch, wire-BL-OR to "Switch on BX-Relay" - wire-BL-OR to "6th. position Vari-Target". Greetings Rolf

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#45 5 years ago

Hi MarkG
the following I have written "not knowing Your post-44". So the following Text may not fit well into the flux of the topic.

Hi Tomass
Gottlieb made a "confusing for us" wiring - see the top of the JPG - the D-Relay is activated and we get 500 points - but in the upper half of the JPG. The ONE bonus (when D-Relay is activated): We get on the lower part of the JPG - using the fact that the Vari-Target is NOT activated. So the motor turns andthe "many motor-switches" actuate - they let pass exactly "the very first closing on motor-1A".

Further confusing - when we activate the Vari-Target - "the many motor-switches" are used to get us 1000 or 2000 or 3000 or 4000 or 5000 points. And the getting of five bonus when the Vari-Target is hit "to the max": Is made through a closing switch on the Vari-Target (6th. Pos. Vari-Target) bypassing the "many motor-switches". Greetings Rolf

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#50 5 years ago

Hi Tomass
each coil in the pin is an energy-consumer --- the Test-Light is also an energy-consumer. I toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - I establish (see the JPG) "my red-1 Wiring" - permanent hooked-on. Then I plug-in and turn on and start a game - what do I expect - what do I get: Most likely FIVE TIMES the Test-Light will light up" - I toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - I establish (see the JPG) "my red-1 Wiring" - permanent hooked-on. Then I plug-in and turn on and start a game - what do I expect - what do I get: Most likely FIVE TIMES the Test-Light will light up" - but I may have the sometimes fault.

So work Your way through --- HowardR 's trick with the Safety pin inserted into a wire to an solder-lug: Score-Motor-Switches are hard to get to.
By the way - "My red-1 at motor-1a" is counting inside out the THIRD switch (see it in the List in the JPG in post-39).

It is late in Switzerland - maybe I get an "Summer-Influenza". Greetings Rolf

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