Quoted from Crash:It harkens me back to Kevin Kulek and the Skit-B story.
Reminds me of JPOP blaming his customers for wanting their money back and hurting his ability to continue...
The nerve of those people! 
(Topic ID: 319214)
Rockford, IL
Quoted from lordloss:I haven't been reading this thread. I told butch, no and what his options were. He didn't like the options presented, so he threatened me with clout and a pinside thread. He also contacted robin, which was funny.
Quoted from lordloss:You sure are mad for being told no for the first time in your life, butch.
Well, lets hear your side of the story then
Quoted from lordloss:You sure are mad for being told no for the first time in your life, butch.
Pretty sure he is mad for dealing with a vendor that represents himself as a business who produces product for the industry that many can use, but turned out to actually be a complete douchebag with their business tactics on top of a product that some may receive and many others don't to only to find out it's poorly produced and doesn't accommodate their needs.
Hope that cleared it up for you.
In addition if it took this long for you to respond this thread about how poorly your business practices are, one can only imagine what the replies if any would be on your products if the support is truly needed by a customer that actually received something.
Quoted from robin:I'm still debating on removing the Biz from Pinside altogether. If the company doesn't change it ways, they have no place on Pinside. I have worked too hard to establish Pinside as the safest online place to buy (used) machines and parts, so I don't take any of this lightly
So how is that debate coming along these days?
Quoted from lordloss:I haven't been reading this thread. I told butch, no and what his options were. He didn't like the options presented, so he threatened me with clout and a pinside thread. He also contacted robin, which was funny.
He got his money back.
What did you get?
Quoted from lordloss:I haven't been reading this thread. I told butch, no and what his options were. He didn't like the options presented, so he threatened me with clout and a pinside thread. He also contacted robin, which was funny.
You told him what you wanted the options to be, he then chose from the other many options he had. You are correct someone sure doesn’t like being told no, but that doesn’t seem to be Butch.
Quoted from lordloss:You sure are mad for being told no for the first time in your life, butch.
No what? I can't have a product I paid for in a timely manner?
Everything I told you has come true. You're pretty much done here on pinside and I got my money back from the bank. Have fun fighting wirh the FRAUD department as it's now their problem to try to get the money back from you not mine anymore..
Quoted from lordloss:I haven't been reading this thread. I told butch, no and what his options were. He didn't like the options presented, so he threatened me with clout and a pinside thread. He also contacted robin, which was funny.
It’s not just Butch that has a problem with you. I’ve been personally affected by your BS and so have many others. I’m sure you’re a fine person but you shouldn’t be running a business.
Quoted from PismoArcade:At the risk of stating the obvious, Charlie's silence on this thread is deafening. He's on Pinside daily and has obviously read this.
If someone started a thread like this about me and it was a misunderstanding, I would be on here explaining my side of the story and apologizing to the OP.
Unless I was guilty, of course.
Quoted from lordloss:You sure are mad for being told no for the first time in your life, butch.
Quoted from lordloss:I haven't been reading this thread. I told butch, no and what his options were. He didn't like the options presented, so he threatened me with clout and a pinside thread. He also contacted robin, which was funny.
On second thought, maybe I was wrong. Not responding would have been much better than this.
Quoted from lordloss:You sure are mad for being told no for the first time in your life, butch.
Epitome of customer service right here.
‘No I can’t ship you the product you paid for And no you can’t have your money back.’
LOL …. Ooook.
If butch was the only unhappy customer, this could easily be a he said she said buuut there seems to be plenty of damning feedback from others. I’m just not grasping why Lordloss is ruining his business by treating customers like shit. He seemed really excited about the products he makes and the market is there. Baffling.
Quoted from Mbecker:I’m just not grasping why Lordloss is ruining his business by treating customers like shit. He seemed really excited about the products he makes and the market is there. Baffling.
His username checks out
Quoted from FatPanda:lordloss = pinball_basement ???
Is this not a duplicate account and against Pinside rules?
Businesses are allowed a personal account and business account
Moderation comment:
Normally, when there's a problem, we prefer to leave accounts active so that the lines of communication are kept open. That hopefully gives people a chance to to possibly resolve any issues.
Unfortunately, this particular member's behavior has made it clear that he rarely communicates when there is a problem, and the posts in this thread demonstrate he has little interest in resolving them to a customer's satisfaction.
While it is unfortunate that things have come to this, it's clear that this individual has made little effort to make improvements, and instead has resulted in a long line of unhappy customers with similar stories.
The moderation team does not support this behavior. Therefore, in the best interests of the community, the moderation team has opted to close this member's business and personal accounts on Pinside.
For anyone who currently has an unresolved issue with an order, all we can say is that since most of these orders were placed outside of Pinside, we have no control over those. The best option might be to follow a similar path that the OP of this thread did to at least get his money back.
Is there a possibility that he has an account with the Better Business Bureau BBB in his city?
Or as he is operating in his basement, he is under the radar of normal business accounts?
Do you think he pays tax's to the soon to be improved IRS with thousands of recently hired gun toting agents?
Glad to read he is no longer welcome here to ply is poor service and shoddy workmanship.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Moderation comment:
Normally, when there's a problem, we prefer to leave accounts active so that the lines of communication are kept open. That hopefully gives people a chance to to possibly resolve any issues.
Unfortunately, this particular member's behavior has made it clear that he rarely communicates when there is a problem, and the posts in this thread demonstrate he has little interest in resolving them to a customer's satisfaction.
While it is unfortunate that things have come to this, it's clear that this individual has made little effort to make improvements, and instead has resulted in a long line of unhappy customers with similar stories.
The moderation team does not support this behavior. Therefore, in the best interests of the community, the moderation team has opted to close this member's business and personal accounts on Pinside.
For anyone who currently has an unresolved issue with an order, all we can say is that since most of these orders were placed outside of Pinside, we have no control over those. The best option might be to follow a similar path that the OP of this thread did to at least get his money back.
Bye Felicia
Quoted from flynnibus:Now someone get PPS to part ways with them...
lol good luck
Quoted from flynnibus:Businesses are allowed a personal account and business account
I feel like this could be misleading...because if you are an a-hole in the forums but have a different business account, that you can essentially "hide" who you are.
Just like if you knew someone that you didn't like IRL, but then went a store that they owned but you didn't know it was them.
Alternatively, if you were a decent person, you'd kind of want that reputation to follow you...you know?
idk, maybe it's just me.
Quoted from FatPanda:I feel like this could be misleading...because if you are an a-hole in the forums but have a different business account, that you can essentially "hide" who you are.
Just like if you knew someone that you didn't like IRL, but then went a store that they owned but you didn't know it was them. idk, maybe it's just me.
There are multiple reasons for why it is sometimes done. Sometimes for business reasons to keep business/personal separate, sometimes for general business/product support.
However, for transparency, we always request that both personal and business accounts be linked to the same biz listing.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Moderation comment:
the moderation team has opted to close this member's business and personal accounts on Pinside.
That was fast.
200.gifQuoted from Tophervette:Is there a possibility that he has an account with the Better Business Bureau BBB in his city?
Anyone can buy a BBB membership and there is almost no reason for a small business to do so. You can still file a complaint whether the business has an account or not. Far easier to leave a review on your site(s) of choice.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:Anyone can buy a BBB membership and there is almost no reason for a small business to do so. You can still file a complaint whether the business has an account or not. Far easier to leave a review on your site(s) of choice.
The BBB isn't too relevant these days. Social media and various review sites/profiles have eclipsed it. I don't think I've actually used the BBB for much of anything in at least the past 10 years.
Early days of the internet? It was pretty helpful. That was pre-yelp days when the BBB was basically one of the few centralized places that held information on businesses and customer feedback.
Sana'a
Quoted from Tophervette:Is there a possibility that he has an account with the Better Business Bureau BBB in his city?
The BBBB nowadays is just businesses paying $1000 a year for **accreditation**
It's not any kind of government rating, just a high pressure advertising gambit.
-
UNKNOWN CALLER: Hello, is this Joe The Plumber?
Joe The Plumber: Yes, how can I help you?
UC: This is mike from the BBBB, we have received a inquiry into your business status.
JTP: Did someone have complaint?
UC: Not necessarily, but apparently a potential customer did inquire into your status or rating.
JTP: OK....
UC: You can upgrade your status into an accredited member, let people know you are an active member.
JTP: What would I have to do?
UC: Active members pay a small fee each month, and we let customers know that you abide by all the BBBB rules and guidelines.
JTP: How much?
UC: 100 a month gives you our Gold Status Membership!
JTP: Thats $1200 a year, are you crazy?
UC: You can obtain Jr Membership for only $50 a month!
JTP: Thats $600 a year!
UC: But your customers are Assured you are compliant.
JTP: I think I'll just go back to beating my wife, for that kind of money I could join Anjies List
UC: Ok, I hope your record remains clean....
Quoted from DeathHimself:And just like that Charlie had.......
[quoted image]
Until he is wearing a set of bracelets I doubt anything will change. Why should they? He has other people's money without shipping product. Plenty of people to fleece on FB.
Quoted from gdonovan:Until he is wearing a set of bracelets I doubt anything will change. Why should they? He has other people's money without shipping product. Plenty of people to fleece on FB.
That is true, however at least Robin & Staff did take action the best way that they could so at least he will not be doing that to anyone else within the Pinside community.
Shame how this all turned out. Seems like Pinball Basement started out as a legitimate business, but maybe lost his way?
I ordered a WPC-89 PowerDriver Board from him a year and a half ago, and it arrived about a month late, but worked perfectly, and has still been going strong in an Addams Family that I helped a client with.
I also ordered another board from him about 8 months back, but canceled the order the next day when I realized that I wouldn't need the board after all. He quickly and politely refunded my order.
Sad to see that not everyone was as lucky as me. I imagine the soldering issues come down to trying to work too fast, as based on the board I received, he knows how to solder. Seems like time management has been an ongoing issue. Must have some other issues going on outside of pinball.
Worst part is, his boards appealed to me because of how they matched the original Williams designs, making future repairs or alterations easier.
There's always Dumbass if you weren't aware.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs
Quoted from Crash:There's always Dumbass if you weren't aware.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs
Yeah, it's good we've got him in the community. Now, more than ever.
Quoted from DakotaMike:Yeah, it's good we've got him in the community. Now, more than ever.
Dumbass is a solo operation. No way he can supply the demand.
Not sure why everyone are doing a happy dance that this happened. I am NO way defending practices here, but it isn't like we have a lot of options anymore. Rottendog is gone, now Pinball Basement - who's left? Better start picking up those damaged boards on ebay again and hoping you can do the repairs.
And we're fucked with the smaller boards.
Quoted from Methos:Not sure why everyone are doing a happy dance that this happened. I am NO way defending practices here, but it isn't like we have a lot of options anymore.
So it was better to have someone who took your funds on product that you may never see and if your one of the few and I mean very few lucky ones that actually received something, most of those boards were shit as well and unusable?
The happy dance on Pinside is not that we lost another vendor who is supplying product, but actually losing one who screwed many many people over.
Pinball Basement is just as small as Dumbass and yet nothing but compliments on their products. I wouldn't mind the wait from Dumbass knowing two things:
1- I'll actually be getting a board I ordered
2- It will actually be usable.
Quoted from Methos:Rottendog is gone, now Pinball Basement - who's left? Better start picking up those damaged boards on ebay again and hoping you can do the repairs.
And we're fucked with the smaller boards.
Actually no. Rottendog was just bought out by someone else. All the boards are still being produced (and some upgraded) and you can buy any of the boards through Pinball Life with warranty. Recently the new owners started publishing schematics on their site.
At least on the WPC front there are a few others making MPU now so there are options. Several that use surface mount I would personally avoid but it looks like there isn’t going to be a hard time getting boards if needed.
Woolgoolga
Quoted from Butch2099:I was told Kaneda actually mentioned this thread on his podcast. Does anybody have the link?
Is this that kaneda bloke?
Quoted from Butch2099:I was told Kaneda actually mentioned this thread on his podcast. Does anybody have the link?
He did. It's on Patreon behind a paywall. ($5 a month)
He said some nice (deserved) things about you.
Quoted from DakotaMike:Sad to see that not everyone was as lucky as me. I imagine the soldering issues come down to trying to work too fast, as based on the board I received, he knows how to solder. Seems like time management has been an ongoing issue. Must have some other issues going on outside of pinball.
The soldering issue was trying to use the wrong tools and not willing to use the correct ones to get an actual correct solder joint.
Quoted from Methos:Dumbass is a solo operation. No way he can supply the demand.
Not sure why everyone are doing a happy dance that this happened. I am NO way defending practices here, but it isn't like we have a lot of options anymore. Rottendog is gone, now Pinball Basement - who's left? Better start picking up those damaged boards on ebay again and hoping you can do the repairs.
And we're fucked with the smaller boards.
pinball life will do boards in volumes that need them.
In time imagine someone like Dumbass working with Terry@PBL... we'd have the best of both worlds.
Dumbass has done more 'smaller' boards than were ever done before.. and those are more readily built by hobbyists vs large jobs like driver boards or MPUs.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Actually no. Rottendog was just bought out by someone else. All the boards are still being produced (and some upgraded) and you can buy any of the boards through Pinball Life with warranty. Recently the new owners started publishing schematics on their site.
At least on the WPC front there are a few others making MPU now so there are options. Several that use surface mount I would personally avoid but it looks like there isn’t going to be a hard time getting boards if needed.
I hope you are correct, but how many times have we seen the "the new buyer is going to start production soon" bullshit? I'll believe it when we see it.
Who else is making WPC boards - and all of the side smaller boards?
Quoted from Methos:I hope you are correct, but how many times have we seen the "the new buyer is going to start production soon" bullshit? I'll believe it when we see it.
Who else is making WPC boards - and all of the side smaller boards?
It is my understanding that just about all the boards are available and in production. Just checkout Pinball life. I think a couple vendors like Big Daddy are no longer a distributor so if you base things on old vendors then it may look like they aren't making boards.
Gaborone
Plenty of smaller companies making the "smaller boards" as some called them.
Homepin makes a large range of all the opto boards as well as all the motor driver boards and some impossible to find ones such as the Getaway supercharger driver, the BSD 24" opto and a full replacement boards setup for the strobe in AFM, also otherwise unobtainium.
Most Homepin boards are available, and in stock from Pinball Life.
There are a few European companies also making many smaller boards such as these.
You are spoiled for choice when it comes to the larger boards like MPUs and large driver boards. All you have to do is look at suppliers and you will find many different ones, some are SMD and I wouldn't choose those either as Robotworkshop commented but at least, if it comes to it, there IS something available.
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