(Topic ID: 287820)

Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA

By crwjumper

3 months ago


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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by robin
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    There are 441 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 9.
    #401 3 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    cheaper then mexico and south america?
    .

    Yes.. plus the games are all marked for country of destination/use. Our existing parties would be able to easily note the discrepancies... and could easily be verified with strn as well if they went through the hassle of trying to rebadge the games.

    Its more likely games that get “lost”... or some variant

    The margins for distributors is just so miniscule in this industry there just isn’t the kind of room you are talking about for flipping on gradients or timing, etc.

    I would hope those involved do pull their data points and goto stern management to help them build confidence in their channel.

    -3
    #402 3 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:Yes.. plus the games are all marked for country of destination/use. Our existing parties would be able to easily note the discrepancies... and could easily be verified with strn as well if they went through the hassle of trying to rebadge the games.
    Its more likely games that get “lost”... or some variant
    The margins for distributors is just so miniscule in this industry there just isn’t the kind of room you are talking about for flipping on gradients or timing, etc.
    I would hope those involved do pull their data points and goto stern management to help them build confidence in their channel.

    Welp.. to me that just leaves buying from a larger dealer who is selling wholesale outside of their agreement with the brand holder.

    I dont know who the biggest dealers are ( and dont care) but not a good look either way.

    Its not like we are talking about a game here and there... there was pretty good volume going on.

    28
    #403 3 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Welp.. to me that just leaves buying from a larger dealer who is selling wholesale outside of their agreement with the brand holder.
    I dont know who the biggest dealers are ( and dont care) but not a good look either way.
    Its not like we are talking about a game here and there... there was pretty good volume going on.

    Give it up, this wasn't that sophisticated. If a larger dealer wanted to sell under the table why would they involve this guy? His profit margin likely came from selling the same pin twice, or selling something he never had at all.

    #404 3 months ago

    Yes, the dealer angle isn’t jiving.

    #405 3 months ago

    Lame comment deleted.

    #406 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    True but Elvis is shucking and jiving.

    I was hoping Elvis would leave the building

    #407 3 months ago

    OK I give up...

    Its amusing to me that a bunch of you seem to know exactly what was going on and no one has the balls to say it.

    be interesting to see how that goes when people dont get their money back.

    have fun.

    #408 3 months ago

    Couldn’t resist

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    #409 3 months ago

    I gotta admit I'm loving the discussion on arbitrage. Having been a pit broker trading in commodities and options, I think I've got a reasonable understanding of arbitrage strategies. So, I do appreciate Elvishasleft persistence.

    The fundamental challenge is that Stern pinball machines are made in and shipped from the USA, distributors are limited and apparently pricing is well controlled in the US market, resulting in little opportunity to buy in market X and sell in market Y (and I'm using market as it applies to arbitrage encompasing pricing discrepencies not only in geography but timing, currency, etc.). I guess one could argue that flippers that buy, say a CE spot and sell it before receiving the game are engaged in arbitrage, but that is obviously not the case here.

    I have no idea how this was done, but don't give up Elvishasleft surely Evis Has (a couple of other ideas) Left to float!

    #410 3 months ago
    Quoted from twenty84:

    Give it up, this wasn't that sophisticated. If a larger dealer wanted to sell under the table why would they involve this guy? His profit margin likely came from selling the same pin twice, or selling something he never had at all.

    Large distributor sold the games to him. Bottom line. How else would he get that many of them?

    Maybe he promised the large distributor something in the future to get pinball machines now.

    -61
    #411 3 months ago

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    #412 3 months ago

    One buyer already named the distributor his game was bought from and then resold through ASOA.

    #413 3 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Yeah but a list of serial numbers and cooperation from the manufacturers would go a long long way to flushing this dirt out

    Yep. Here is a JP2 I bought from ASOA that arrived in Pasadena on 12/3/19. At the time, JP2 Premiums were in short supply. Shipper was Stern Pinball. No distributor markings. No mention of ASOA. The consignee was an unfamiliar name at my California address. Other than the name not being mine, nothing unusual about the box/game.

    No doubt that ASOA coming through on JP2 led me to ordering a Rick & Morty on 12/16. I wanted to order it directly from Spooky, but they sold out really quickly and I missed the boat. When JD said he had 2 on order and would sell me one for $7,250 and estimated delivery was Jan/Feb, I jumped on it (invoice below). The price was below market and the estimated delivery was crazy fast. Since I never purchased a Spooky game, but know they are a low volume producer, I should have done more investigative work to see if this was legit. Since JP2 was the 4th game purchased through ASOA, it inspired confidence that JD was plugged into all the manufacturers/distributors.

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    #414 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    What about the families he ripped off and the stress he caused their loved ones?

    I don’t believe a word he says at this point.

    #415 3 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    cheaper then mexico and south america?
    they arent exactly far from Florida where this was all going on.

    There is no pinball market in Mexico and South America.
    Have you ever looked at the pinmap?

    Also you are talking about a domestic product. Not a foreign product.
    It makes no sense to do so.

    Take cocaine for example. It cost different prices in different countries.
    I assure you this though, nobody is buying it abroad to import into Colombia.

    46
    #416 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    That’s a shame. Tell him an email is coming in a few days that will outline the steps being taken to Correct the unfortunate issues he is experiencing, and that this is all a misunderstanding that will be resolved shortly.

    #417 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    I personally have had a few transactions with Jonathan's company ASOA and all have turned out fine.

    Quoted from Dexter:

    I know the pandemic was hard on ASOA (as it was for many) but I am certain that Jonathan will make this right.

    Quoted from Dexter:

    I have met Jonathan in person and have broken bread with him.

    Quoted from Dexter:

    Listen I do speak with Jonathan and have good experiences with him in the past.

    Quoted from Dexter:

    I am not associated with this business - I just personally have had good experience with ASOA and Jonathan

    Quoted from Dexter:

    Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right.

    21
    #418 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    This thread has gotten out of control.

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    18
    #419 3 months ago

    Fucking hell.

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    13
    #420 3 months ago

    I hope he gets what he deserves hopefully some jail time. It’s not ok to rip people off.

    34
    #421 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    The name calling and threats are not helping anyone.

    Apparently the taking of peoples money and not delivering wasn’t helping anyone either.

    16
    #422 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    Thanks Jonathan, err I mean Dexter...

    11
    #423 3 months ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Apparently the taking of peoples money and not delivering wasn’t helping anyone either.

    Exactly. Taking peoples hard earned cash and playing games with them is not easy on the people you are doing it to.

    Imagine finally being called out... must not feel good. I doubt there are any physical threats... more like legal and jail.

    And let's not forget that he's been doing this for YEARS. And continued to do it knowing he owed people money... once he brushed them and their calls for fair payment over a few months, he rolled on to the next person like it was NOTHING.

    I don't feel sorry for him now, sorry!

    #424 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    Tell him to call the police if people are threatening his family and him....oh wait

    14
    #425 3 months ago

    Just a general reminder:

    While this is an upsetting situation, please try to keep things civil. Personal attacks, threatening comments and/or threatening behavior will not be tolerated.

    13
    #426 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right.

    Pretty sure he has ample time to make things right with many of the people he ripped off. Some have stated they been asking for a long time with no resolution.

    Quoted from Dexter:

    The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation.

    Bringing it to light was just the beginning. This thread isn't getting deleted like the village to protect his reputation. Once all the people are made whole then it will have served its purpose.

    #427 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    And yes. He should have a felony against him for stealing customers money. You go to jail for this last time I read state laws.

    #428 3 months ago
    Quoted from fishmanrob:

    And yes. He should have a felony against him for stealing customers money. You go to jail for this last time I read state laws.

    If cash was wired across state lines wouldn't it be a federal offense too?

    #429 3 months ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Not stealing from ops... buying them at a heavy discount for OPS as the middle-man then selling to home users... or opening up the box, setting up the game, and selling it as "used". There were several threads where open box games with like 5 plays on them were up for sale if you recall..

    Sounds right on !

    #430 3 months ago
    Quoted from captainadam_21:

    If cash was wired across state lines wouldn't it be a federal offense too?

    Wire fraud is not technically wiring money across state lines. It’s more the use of electronic communications (email, phone, text etc) to facilitate or perpetrate fraud.
    Similar to mail fraud, and yes both are federal crimes.

    #431 3 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    One buyer already named the distributor his game was bought from and then resold through ASOA.

    I hear a distributor out your way?

    #432 3 months ago

    He has a whole web of companies going on. Just go here and scroll down to the network visualizer...

    https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Plantation/jonathan-demare/139583342.aspx

    16
    #433 3 months ago

    So, one part of the scam is 'Sell' premiums and LEs. Don't deliver, and then offer Pros. Pocket 1700-2000 per transaction.*

    Or offer phantom games, don't deliver, send Pros and again pocket 1700+*

    *Only people that speak up online and expose scam get the Pros.

    24
    #434 3 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Yep. Here is a JP2 I bought from ASOA that arrived in Pasadena on 12/3/19. At the time, JP2 Premiums were in short supply. Shipper was Stern Pinball. No distributor markings. No mention of ASOA. The consignee was an unfamiliar name at my California address. Other than the name not being mine, nothing unusual about the box/game.
    No doubt that ASOA coming through on JP2 led me to ordering a Rick & Morty on 12/16. I wanted to order it directly from Spooky, but they sold out really quickly and I missed the boat. When JD said he had 2 on order and would sell me one for $7,250 and estimated delivery was Jan/Feb, I jumped on it (invoice below). The price was below market and the estimated delivery was crazy fast. Since I never purchased a Spooky game, but know they are a low volume producer, I should have done more investigative work to see if this was legit. Since JP2 was the 4th game purchased through ASOA, it inspired confidence that JD was plugged into all the manufacturers/distributors.[quoted image]

    He offered me the same deal for Rick and morty with similar timing. I asked who he gets it through and it was kingpin games. I probably wouldn’t of questioned it until he wanted the payment up front. I actually message spooky and they said it’s a scam. They would never ask for complete payment. I reached out to kingpin and they said they didn’t know who he was. Pretty crazy

    14
    #435 3 months ago
    Quoted from youdontknowme:

    jonathan, you better fix this sh!t...i'll let the whole cat out of this bag about your main source of machines, at least back in 2018.
    seriously, i've spoken with you in person. and on the phone. but there's way too much going on here to ignore.
    make a fake account for pinside. speak up. be heard.

    Time to let that cat out......dont ya think .

    #436 3 months ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    It is my understanding that most of those affected have been contacted. The thread has served its purpose for drawing attention to this situation. These posts have now become way out of line. People are posting, calling, and emailing Jonathan threating him and his family. Like the OP Bill stated earlier - let's give Jonathan an opportunity to make this right. The name calling and threats are not helping anyone. This thread has gotten out of control.

    So the interesting thing about that comment is that:
    He keeps a list of people he scammed?! Concerning.

    I reached out to him, not the other way. And really all I got was the same old stuff. “Working on it.”

    If you’re know the guy, is he living the high life we all saw early in the thread? Pretty hard to justify taking $1600 from me and just shutting me down.

    Edit: he also used the pandemic as a reason for his problems but my Monday should have been refunded in 2018

    #437 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:That’s a shame. Tell him an email is coming in a few days that will outline the steps being taken to Correct the unfortunate issues he is experiencing, and that this is all a misunderstanding that will be resolved shortly.

    50F9F4A8-FD72-4025-9600-40A89D8BA7AF.gif
    #438 3 months ago

    Hmmm.... I don't know much about how pinball distributors work or their margins. However, I have worked with many (and set-up supply agreements) distributors for other products.

    It looks like most of the scam involved shipping Stern pros in-lieu of a more expensive item.

    1) Does stern price tier their distributors? If so, a distributor would have a benefit in over-buying and then off-loading extras to a 3rd party. We used to see that in the marker I worked in... the creation of a black market is one of the top arguments in using a tiered system.

    2) Does Stern tie the number of LE's you receive to the number of pro that you order? If so, I could see someone over-buying pro's (which i suspect have the smallest margins) in order to get a larger allotment of LE's

    In the end... I am not sure if it matters... since it is between Stern to whack the distributor back in place. However, I appreciate the OP for pointing out the scam. Man, you really have to be on toes when buying games.

    #439 3 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Yep. Here is a JP2 I bought from ASOA that arrived in Pasadena on 12/3/19. At the time, JP2 Premiums were in short supply. Shipper was Stern Pinball. No distributor markings. No mention of ASOA. The consignee was an unfamiliar name at my California address. Other than the name not being mine, nothing unusual about the box/game.
    No doubt that ASOA coming through on JP2 led me to ordering a Rick & Morty on 12/16. I wanted to order it directly from Spooky, but they sold out really quickly and I missed the boat. When JD said he had 2 on order and would sell me one for $7,250 and estimated delivery was Jan/Feb, I jumped on it (invoice below). The price was below market and the estimated delivery was crazy fast. Since I never purchased a Spooky game, but know they are a low volume producer, I should have done more investigative work to see if this was legit. Since JP2 was the 4th game purchased through ASOA, it inspired confidence that JD was plugged into all the manufacturers/distributors.[quoted image]

    That is the default MS Word invoice template from the past 20-30 years. I remember using it as a kid when I did brake jobs on people's cars.

    #440 3 months ago
    Quoted from golfingdad1:

    Time to let that cat out......dont ya think .

    Looks like this thread needs 2 cats.

    2C8FDB36-DA64-4AD1-A023-89498C17C354 (resized).jpeg
    -76
    #441 3 months ago

    Closing this thread at request of the OP. It might reopen at a later point.

    There are 441 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 9.

    This topic is closed.

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