Think of all the stress he has caused ALL of the people on here he's ripped off... I mean, $16K is a significant amount of money to most if not all of us, and it apears that we have at least a dozen victims here.. did he consider the stress each and every one of them were going through? All while living the high life? His ability to not care about people should apply to how he feels about being outed, don't you think?

Just buying more time and he hopes the spotlight gets off of him. File the lawsuit and call the police.

Exactly. Wise words.

Jonathan texted me this morning. Clearly, no remorse or mea culpa. Jonathan simply guilted me just as hard as ever...for example:

"I have helped you personally sell games, fix games and acquire games all at a great price".

This is a true statement. Unfortunately, it doesn't give him the right to scam me on a Rick and Morty that he never delivered OR came clean on (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804). He disclosed this morning that he eventually received "my" Rick and Morty, but cannot back up this assertion with any hard data (or even game #!). This is denial, folks. If he did receive my R&M, he undoubtedly cashed in big time, since it is worth a lot more than $7,250! In fact, I "paid up" to get one locally, which if I was being a stickler, is a related loss from ASOA not delivering the game I purchased in December 2019.

I'm glad Bill is having some success getting his money back, but based on my text messages with Jonathan, I have no hope. Life is too short for me to stress out over a $1,750 loss! I'm going to back away from this thread, since it opens old wounds. I have nothing more to add. I've told my story and said my peace.

Scammer now, scammer later folks. Just a ponzii scam. Money spent long ago on cars, food, girls, boat and so on. Just taking someone else’s money to pay the the squeaky wheel. Whoever becomes the biggest threat to him might get paid. I say might loosely. When the lawsuit catches up with him he will more than likely file bankruptcy. Then you’re out again. So again, biggest threat might get some funds and everyone else is out. Do nothing and he continues his ways.

I have no skin in this game however this is what I found. This guy seems to have quite a few different businesses going on.

Screenshot_20210215-093656_Chrome (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20210215-093808_Chrome (resized).jpg

Wow I can only imagine what the sick scam called “bear hugs children foundation” entails.

Since Ice is “deeply involved” in all things ASOA maybe he can shed some light on it.

Best way to make a con pay up is a face to face visit. Hard to talk your way out of that....

Oh man come on guys please don’t turn on each other here! If a thread like this had existed before I sent my money to JPOP I would of never sent him my hard earned cash (which I lost). Because this thread now exists and victims came forward, which I know from my own personal experience having been scammed is humiliating and embarrassing, but if it keeps even one more person from being scammed it is worth coming forward. I personally know more people who have been scammed by Jonathan who don’t want to come forward... and posts like the one above reinforce that decision. Now more than ever is the time we need to come together as a community with ideas and solutions not personal attacks.

Maybe that gold ring is worth 2k? LOL. He can sell that and pay someone.

I checked irs publication 78 and couldn't find the bear hugs children foundation so hopefully it isn't paying itself as a charity

That’s right. When a person receives a partial refund, it is other people’s money where it comes from. The original person’s money is gone. This refunding process is actually an extended pyramid scheme.

Ask yourself - if Jonathan is living in a Miami mansion and driving expensive cars, how did he become successful enough to afford it? You might say it was because he ripped off enough people. But a tiger does not lose his stripes in the rain. So he likely has purchased these on credit, like the other 99.99% of people on here. So he must be paying his mortgage each month with his winnings. When that dries up he eventually will be unable to pay and it is inevitable that he will lose the house.

So all creditors are warned but when it come time to repay, I’ll wager the bank has the strongest hand and will get paid back first. They aren’t dummies and require a good bit of capital or collateral. In my experience, it takes 20% down to buy a million dollar house. So if house costs $1M, there is $200k of equity that can be clawed back. Reality may be that he has been in the house a few years and has been able to take out loans up to 100% of house value, thus extracting the $200k of equity, but maybe not.

I’m done posting my thoughts as well, and will be following this thread to see if people are paid back as promised.

That house isn't in his name.

I watch American Greed all the time - unfortunately there are a lot of scam artists out there which seem to have some major personality disorders that leave them with complete lack of empathy and in their minds they can do no wrong. I am hopeful everyone receives all their coins back but I am very skeptical that is going to happen. Sorry to all that are affected by this and thank you OP for starting this thread. We cannot be reminded enuf that there are lots of scammers out there and they are getting more sophisticated so take extra precautions and sometimes it is OK to pay a few extra bucks on a game to reduce the chance of getting taken.

Pinball purchases should not be "win some lose some". The goal IS perfection in the transaction defined as "I bought the machine for the amount the seller is asking, and I received the pinball machine". Anything short of that transaction should not be treated as a possible (or acceptable) loss.

EDIT: I know there is some risk in preorders, and that is probably your argument. But we should hold manufactures, distributors, sellers, etc. to provide FULL refunds if the machine is not delivered.

Again you all can 1099 for the all money you sent him. Then write it off as a loss on your taxes.
Let the IRS go after him. And take it one step forward and notify the IRS of his shady business practices. More then likely they will audit him and all his businesses. Especially if he has a non-profit as a shell company.

LMAO. A scammer with gold chains and rings.. too good to be true.

True I guess

Agree.

Would be good to understand his relationship with that distributor.

Agree.
Would be good to understand his relationship with that distributor.
</blockquote

The OP as well as the others who have been defrauded should be aware that if, as shown in this thread, he owns an expensive house and cars, then fraud charges must be filed against him. This will allow people defrauded to collect against his personal property. Unless he is underwater on his home, they will be able to get some or all of their money back.

'Like all states, Florida has a set of exemptions you can use to protect property—such as a home, car, or retirement account—when filing for Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 bankruptcy.' These assets can be liquidated if it is proven that they were paid for with fraudulent funds.

Many con artists and people who are susceptible to civil law suits artists make their homes in Florida because of the bankruptcy laws. For example, O.J. Simpson and Bernie Madoff had their prime residences in Florida for this very reason. Bankruptcy laws allow these people to keep much of what they have including multi-million dollar homes. In all likelihood, Jonathan knows all this and is preparing to hide as much money as possible.

If anybody else has mentioned this already, I apologize for repeating the information.

Jonathan De(night)mare

Bro...buying pinball machines, especially from "reputable" companies is not like buying stocks. The goal is indeed perfection.

I mean, I see your point, getting something IS better than nothing, but the fact remains you got scammed.

Nah.

He got a great deal on a machine he didn't want for a price nobody in their right mind would ever agree to pay.

Obviously, you are not experienced at Negotiations.

I posted back in March of last year when I got sick of his promises. I had ordered a Wonka LE from him and after multiple failed promises I contacted JJP and found out that he was in fact not an authorized vendor. I actually spoke with Jersey Jack and he wanted nothing to do with Jonathan. Long story (http://villagebbs.com/forum/index.php/topic,43886.0.html) short I got a Stern game instead and nothing but excuses for the remaining money that was owed to me. This was prior to COVID so no excuses there. It took the post on the Village (local pinball forum) to get paid.

I only believe I got paid because I was the first to publicly speak out. Jonathan called and texted me constantly begging me to delete the thread and he would get me paid. He was extremely worried about his public appearance. I told him I would update that thread once I had received my money back which happened that day. The admins over there seem to be very friendly with Jonathan as they immediately shut down the thread and quickly killed another that came up.

Looking back at the several deals I did with him, all of which were substantially below market value for NIB games, I'm now convinced that he was buying games and selling them below what he paid to those who he called "friends". There were others locally who he didn't offer the same low prices. This is giving him the benefit of believing that he actually was obtaining the games, that he did deliver, legally.

Since my posting on the Village I received at least a dozen emails and some phone calls from others that had been scammed out of money. I don't understand why but everyone of them was afraid to speak out in public, or were willing to believe that he would eventually make them whole.

I certainly hope everyone gets their money back but in my experience (and further evidenced in this thread) the only thing that Jonathan responds to are threats and/or direct action that calls him out and exposes him in public.

So who was the distributor who enabled him and helped him to get the games?

This is just a symptom of people being cheap asses and always trying to buy as low as possible.

Someone comes around with lower prices by some magic and they dont care how or why as long as they save a few hundred.

Same reason people bought out of state and didnt support their local dealers for years so they could avoid tax.

Hopefully this helps people support their local dealers that have accountability direct with the brand holders.

People keep insisting some distributor must be in cahoots with him but it's probably as simple as stolen games, scammed games, etc. etc. The margins on NIB pins are so low it doesn't make any sense for a distributor to be involved. What would they get out of it? If he was selling people NIB games at "wholesale" they were obviously stolen. There's really no other explanation that makes sense.

Anybody as good at stealing money as ASOA is gonna be pretty adept at stealing pins too.

One thing is for sure, ASOA managed to rack up an absolute shitload of over-enthusiastic, almost comically positive feedback in a very short while. I mean, this shit was like Pinstadium level of jerking off of a vendor. Maybe some people who got these awesome deals a couple years ago can chime in; I'm sure the knob-slobbering feedback was a condition of the sale?

there are different levels of distributors.. and they get different prices and terms if they are bigger.

Same as any other business.. a company buying 100 games a month is treated differently then one buying 10

just sayin.

My point is how is he - dealing with a distributor or not - gonna be able to sell NIB pins at "wholesale prices" and still make money? It's literally impossible.

"I get this at wholesale" is just way more palatable to a buyer trying to figure out why he's getting a $500 discount than "I bought these NIB games through a crony with a bad credit card" or "I can offer great deals because we stole these out of a shipping container."

Regardless, it's mind-blowing how long he was able to keep this quiet. Based on the fake Alien remake he was selling two years ago, big "investors" who are "involved" probably knew this was a rip off for at least a year, probably more.

I should get paid to teach a biz class on here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

At least the weather looks good there . Always thought about moving to Florida and give up my current job/lifestyle. Maybe take up some surfing or just hang out at Disney for the weekend.. life must be good there.

Wrong - for every company I represent.

I'll pay you 10 bucks if you can teach the class how one would "arbitrage" brand new pinball machines and sell them at "wholesale" price. Which part of the planet can you buy pinball machines at lower than dealer cost, and turn around and arbitrage them into big profits?

"arbitrage" is a classic explanation used to settle down nervous ponzi scheme investors. The orignal Ponzi guy - Steve Ponzi or whatever his name was - claimed he was running an "arbitrage" model on stamps for pete's sake!

It’s good to see other people coming forward. Jonathan needs to have his reputation so low and well known that enough people will stop dealing with him. From reading the correspondence and stories, it seems that his reputation is the most important thing to him. That’s to be expected, as this is what has mainly allowed him to rip people off for years.

People like this guy really drag down the hobby. I was involved in both predator and alien. Luckily, I got my predator money back after realizing soon enough what was happening. Wasn’t so lucky with Alien. That’s on me for now being more proactive and vigilant. I was ignorant and got taken advantage of by Andrew the conman.

I kind of stepped away from the hobby for a few years, but I’m really happy to see it continue to grow. But these guys taking advantage of people need to be exposed. Andrew and Kevin will hopefully not be able to take peoples pinball money again. From these stories, Jonathan shouldn’t be allowed to drag this hobby down either.

So an honest question. Was Ice an investor and lost his ass or is he culpable to this whole scam?

Of course I got scammed! Duh. As I said in my first post in this thread, I also had 4 perfect transactions with JD, so it's not like I was scammed by a stranger! I was scammed by someone who was considered a rockstar based on the Pinside reviews (which were 100% wildly positive).

EVERY pinball transaction has the opportunity of being imperfect.

Years ago, I bought a NIB AC/DC that had an awful PF. Little Shop of Games stood by me, and got Stern to send us a populated PF which LSOG replaced. An example of an imperfect transaction made perfect.

Years ago, I bought a CQ CV and it was damaged in transit. Imperfect transaction. The shipping company and seller both helped pay for the damage IIRC. Again, an imperfect transaction made more perfect.

The R&M transaction was extreme imperfection I paid in full for a game in December that was promised for January/February...in writing! After 10 months of bickering with JD, I convinced him to at least deliver me a game (AIQ Pro). For folks close to the situation, they were really shocked that I was able to get ANYTHING out of JD given his woe-is-me story. So while some of you can criticize me for compromising, you really have no idea what it's like to deal with a situation like this. Sure...I could have been more adamant about a FULL cash settlement. I don't believe that would have been the right path FOR ME. Getting a machine to enjoy and putting this to rest was far more important. My fucking monthly healthcare cost more than $1,750, just to put the loss into perspective. It's not a big deal. Getting something to play was a bigger deal for me. It's a hobby after all, and when I look at all my good fortune in this hobby, this was small time shit.

Bottom line: Of the 60+ machines I've purchased over the years, only ~6 transactions have been "imperfect"...this being the worst, obviously.

He was the single biggest shill for the fake 2019 ASOA Alien remake that was the centerpiece of this entire scam. He's an enthusiastic guy, and always wants people to throw their money where he's throwing his; I would guess that's the extent of it.

Anyone tried to track their ASOA games using the serial number? If they really are stolen there will be an insurance company involved and they sometimes have lawyers and time to chase a scammer.

I doubt this is a stolen pinball machine operation.

This dude was involved in an alien rescam?

Exactly that’s a lot of stolen pinball machines. Had to be a distributor and most of the games seem to be sterns that people actually received.

This is my favorite quote of this whole thread...

Much like Charles Ponzi, who lost money on his original "arbitrage" investors, you could be right here. Sell a bunch of games without making much if any of a profit, quickly generate good feedback, and then go in for the kill with your imaginary 2019 Alien, as well as Lebowskis, RMs, and anything else that doesn't exist. It fits the model for the Ponzi scheme, you need some satisfied customers early on to make it work.

All you really need is a ton of quick "good seller!!!" posts, and a trusted, verbose, and loud Pinsider to shill for you endlessly for months, and it can really give a good Ponzi the shot in the arm it needs to take off. And ASOA certainly had that!

Not to mention these sound mostly nib which I would think would be more difficult to steal. The more I think about it the more it makes sense a stern distributor was involved, they got caught and Jonathan’s supply dried up.

I don’t read Jonathan delivering any spooky or jjp games. Always switched them out for stern when people caught on.

Great question and point!!!

Stern keeps track of NIB serial #'s and could tell you what distro these games were sold to.