Fuckin' Levi has his Dancin' Shooz on...
(Topic ID: 287820)
This topic is closed.
Philadelphia, PA
Quoted from iceman44:Why do you care? Look in the mirror
It’s NOT about screwing anybody else
You know NOTHING. If you want the facts then call me.
If anyone else wants to speculate not knowing their head from their ass then call me. Lol
Can I call you?
http://villagebbs.com/forum/index.php?topic=45709.0;wap2
More people who have been scammed. Same guy defending him again.
Quoted from iceman44:Lol. Typical. $$ has already been paid via PayPal.
You don’t know shit
Lighten up, Francis.
Quoted from Frippertron:Lighten up, Francis.
F off Francis. Lo
Quoted from d0n:It was probably paid with a credit card through paypal and will be yanked back shortly.
YOU are the biggest scammer on Pinside!!! Lol
Quoted from nicoy3k:Seems like getting your money back is dependent on this company selling more games which is unlikely at this point...
Uh like ok man. Duhhhh. lol.
Geniuses
Quoted from Cobray:Better pic[quoted image]
I looked at this guys picture and my dog got pregnant
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Can I call you?
Sure thing. Do you need help?
Quoted from guitarded:Fuckin' Levi has his Dancin' Shooz on...
Is that who that ignored user post is? Figures. [Comment Removed]
Quoted from youdontknowme:jonathan, you better fix this sh!t...i'll let the whole cat out of this bag about your main source of machines, at least back in 2018.
seriously, i've spoken with you in person. and on the phone. but there's way too much going on here to ignore.
make a fake account for pinside. speak up. be heard.
Very intriguing post,possibly the most relevant ?? Do tell
Quoted from crwjumper:(Quoted from above)
“what's a "contract" from a scammer worth? Sorry if I'm posting over and over.... just getting caught up on this interesting thread.”
It’s a document that can be taken to court or shown to the D.O.J. If you want to have him arrested. Most of Jonathan’s deals were word of mouth. It’s also showing intent to pay. A huge move forward from what we have seen before.
Most of the deals you guys made were word of mouth? Iceman is involved? This thread is making my head spin. It’s like a Fkn Pinside Soap Opera. WTH guys?
D0B9F4B0-85B3-4752-9F9B-FC42309C0F4F.gif
Quoted from d0n:It was probably paid with a credit card through paypal and will be yanked back shortly.
100% this!!!
He will put a stop payment on his credit card, and dispute with Paypal. OP is going to lose his partial payemnt...again.
Toronto, ON
Man, Ice is on a tear. This is the only place on the internet where I see grown men, most of whom are significantly wealthy, trade messages like “no u” back and forth like this is a public school yard.
Quoted from jwilson:Man, Ice is on a tear. This is the only place on the internet where I see grown men, most of whom are significantly wealthy, trade messages like “no u” back and forth like this is a public school yard.
Well, this is Pinside (drama central)
Quoted from crwjumper:I won’t give an exact amount, but it was significant. I needed to know that he meant to do what he said this time.
I have no skin in the game, but as an outsider I can say you put a pretty weird spin on this. After telling your story I dont know how you are anything other than incensed about the whole thing.
You got FUCKED and are giving this guy the benefit of the doubt? I understand you think you are being sympathetic to his situation but this is YOUR money.
Its your money, but I would be pouring gas on this fire till I had every dime of my money back. Post your story in every facebook group, file complaints with anyone who will listen, file an official police report, etc.
No more waiting around, hes going to keep doing this.
Quoted from jandrea95:I would be pouring gas on this fire till I had every dime of my money back.
Good luck with that emotive approach if you are ever in a situation like this (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804).
You (and others) fail to mention the obvious public service of this crwjumper led thread. Moving forward, Pinsiders are now on alert, which will reduce the likelihood of *new* people being taken advantage of. Progress is being made for folks already hurt. At the moment, it's unclear how this will unfold, however Bill's fact based thread is clearly having an impact.
Quoted from jandrea95:You got FUCKED and are giving this guy the benefit of the doubt? I understand you think you are being sympathetic to his situation but this is YOUR money.
This is EXACTLY what the best scammers/confidence men do! They take your money, rip you off, dance around giving you what they owe you, THEN MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY!
They are usually so likable that even when they have ripped you off, you feel sorry for them and don't want them to get in trouble.
It's so textbook confidence man, that it's not even funny!!
Usually the early deals that were really good deals (you know, the ones that made you really like the guy and were cheaper than anywhere else) is what made people feel loyal, and then when the stack of cards fell he uses those old deals to draw sympothy.. but it's those deals that methodically got everyone to give him all the money that he owes you and ran off with.
Believe me, he NEVER had your back or was looking out for you!
Quoted from snaroff:Good luck with that emotive approach if you are ever in a situation like this (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804).
You (and others) fail to mention the obvious public service of this crwjumper led thread. Moving forward, Pinsiders are now on alert, which will reduce the likelihood of *new* people being taken advantage of. Progress is being made for folks already hurt. At the moment, it's unclear how this will unfold, however Bill's fact based thread is clearly having an impact.
I just want to see you guys get your money back, you included. Again, I am an outsider and dont have the facts you guys do that have dealt with him. It just seems like this guys game is to keep people like you calm, while they scam others. You eventually get paid back with other folks money, and the cycle continues.
Quoted from jandrea95:I just want to see you guys get your money back, you included. Again, I am an outsider and dont have the facts you guys do that have dealt with him. It just seems like this guys game is to keep people like you calm, while they scam others. You eventually get paid back with other folks money, and the cycle continues.
Trust me, I/we understand the game. I suspect most of the people involved are not naive/stupid. Nevertheless, I appreciate your concern. I've been in this hobby since 2004 and this is the first fraudulent transaction I've had to work through. Stressing out over shit like this isn't the answer.
Quoted from snaroff:I suspect most of the people involved are not naive/stupid.
These facts are not in evidence anywhere in here.
Quoted from guitarded:These facts are not in evidence anywhere in here.
I knew I could depend on someone to call this out. You are wrong. Were people hurt by Bernie Madoff all naive/stupid? Of course not.
Quoted from snaroff:I knew I could depend on someone to call this out. You are wrong. Were people hurt by Bernie Madoff all naive/stupid?
Yes. They were.
Quoted from guitarded:Yes. They were.
Or greedy at the very least. Promise big enough returns and smart people can do stupid things.
Quoted from guitarded:Yes. They were.
People transact business based on reputation. As I said in my first post (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804),
"Jonathan Demare (aka ASOA on Pinside) had 20 glowing reviews from 1/17/18-5/16/19 (https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/asoa/feedback/1)".
Like many Pinsiders, I use the reviews to help make sure I'm dealing with a reputable person. At the time, ASOA seemed reputable. For years, Bernie was also reputable. I didn't invest with Bernie, but many smart people did. If you don't understand this, your opinion means little to me.
Quoted from iceman44:Is that who that ignored user post is? Figures. F ing moron
IMHO that post kinda makes you look like a moron; well more of one at least. I usually don’t agree with CrazyLevi but he nailed it there. With almost 40 up votes, I’ll assume others agree too.
He wants you to put your money where your mouth is again. Personally I’d like to see you loose a $100 bottle of booze.
Quoted from snaroff:Like many Pinsiders, I use the reviews to help make sure I'm dealing with a reputable person. At the time, ASOA seemed reputable. For years, Bernie was also reputable. I didn't invest with Bernie, but many smart people did. If you don't understand this, your opinion means little to me.
OK, sport. Next time you feel like paying in advance for a machine you will never get, look me up.
Maybe I'll even do you a solid and only overcharge you for a different machine by say ... 2k?
Sound like a good deal to you?
Op is going about recovery of funds the right way. He has contacted Jonathan and has him talking about repaying people and Op is helping reveal the paint-by-numbers portrait of this scam. So my hat is off to you, sir for posting on Pinside. Was Op paid back because Demare has changed his ways, is going straight and making full amends? Or was he a bit lucky to be partially paid, and maybe now has unknowingly become part of the scam going forward?
If Demare owed a total of $400k (wag), owes Op $20k (wag) and has $10k (wag) left in the business account - what would he do? Pay Op $10k and promise the rest via a contract maybe? He knows the Op has been partially satisfied and will get on Pinside and tell of his good fortune. Thus, buying a few weeks. I am happy the Op has recovered some of his defrauded money but am also sorry because he was CONned. Jonathan should have paid him 100% of what was owed and issued him an APOLOGY for having tried to rip him off. Preselling Aliens and TBL was fraudulent pure and simple. Jonathan sold you something you wanted, that didn’t exist and which he didn’t own the rights to. He was caught, and the picture is becoming clearer with others chiming in on their losses. Jonathan is not sorry, he is sorry he got caught.
Best approach in my opinion is to file charges while you try to recover funds. If you haven’t filed yet, get necessary info together and do that today. The reason this is important to do is it helps identify the whole picture by establishing how many people were duped and the amount owed to each. Then authorities can apply pressure regarding the whole problem. As it is now, it is a game of whack a mole. Person A pops up and gets some money and a promise. Person B pops up and gets some money and a promise. There is no accountability for the promises made. Person A doesn’t know $400k is owed and there is no money in the bank. If he knew this then he’d ask how he was going to be paid the balance promised. Person B doesn’t know what A was told so when he is promised $10k next week, he can’t call bullshit. This scam has gotten out of control and was facilitated by Iceman and few others spouting falsehoods. Good luck to those who were ripped off, but file your complaints now so when you aren’t paid back, at least the fraud is being investigated and Jonathan will have to answer for his actions.
Quoted from guitarded:OK, sport. Next time you feel like paying in advance for a machine you will never get, look me up.
Maybe I'll even do you a solid and only overcharge you for a different machine by say ... 2k?
Sound like a good deal to you?
Absolutely. It's called trying to make the best out of a really bad situation! I got an AIQ Pro that I enjoyed instead of NOTHING! It's called negotiating...ever heard of that term? Apparently not. Here ya go: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/negotiation.asp
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Op is going about recovery of funds the right way though. He has Jonathan talking about repaying people and he is helping reveal the paint-by-numbers portrait of this scam. So my hat is off to you, sir for posting on Pinside. Was Op paid back because Demare has changed his ways, is going straight and making full amends? Or was he a bit lucky to be partially paid, and maybe now has unknowingly become part of the scam going forward?
If Demare owed a total of $400k (wag), owes Op $20k, and has $10k left in the business account - what would he do? Pay Op $10k and promise the rest via a contract. He knows the Op has been partially satisfied and will get on Pinside and tell of his good fortune. Thus, buying a few weeks. I am happy the Op has recovered some of his defrauded money but am also sorry because he was CONned. Jonathan should have paid him 100% of what was owed and issued him an APOLOGY for having tried to rip him off. Preselling Aliens and TBL was fraudulent pure and simple. Jonathan sold you something you wanted, that didn’t exist and which he didn’t own the rights to. He was caught, and the picture is becoming clearer with others chiming in on their losses. Jonathan is not sorry, he is sorry he got caught.
Best approach in my opinion is to file charges while you try to recover funds. If you haven’t filed yet, get necessary info together and do that today. The reason this is important to do is it helps identify the whole picture by establishing how many people were duped and the amount owed to each. Then authorities can apply pressure regarding the whole problem. As it is now, it is a game of whack a mole. Person A pops up and gets some money and a promise. Person B pops up and gets some money and a promise. There is no accountability for the promises made. Person A doesn’t know $400k is owed and there is no money in the bank. If he knew this then he’d ask how he was going to be paid the balance promised. Person B doesn’t know what A was told so when he is promised $10k next week, he can’t call bullshit. This scam has gotten out of control and was facilitated by Iceman and few others spouting falsehoods. Good luck to those who were ripped off, but file your complaints now so when you aren’t paid back, at least the fraud is being investigated and Jonathan will have to answer for his actions.
Thank you for the intelligent post! Very helpful.
Quoted from snaroff:Absolutely. It's called trying to make the best out of a really bad situation! I got an AIQ Pro that I enjoyed instead of NOTHING!
And you only paid an Extra 2k.
Nice negotiating. You could give john Kerry a run for his money with results like that.
I am constantly amazed by the reaction someone elicits from fellow pinsiders when they come on here with intentions of seeking help or offering help, the results seem to me to always be the same...ridicule WTF. Why not just be thankful for the warning and the attempts to right the ship and leave it at that. We all are guilty of trying to get the best deal we can and so occasionally fall prey to some BS, that in no way makes any of us stupid or idiots in any way. Personally I'm not a believer in paying up front for any pin but that at least for me has to do with it not being affordable in any instance where I can risk the possible loss or I might damn well do it one time or another I don't know. Anyway I'm just saying that for once lets just support the effort of the people offering and those actually helping, if it goes south, so what, nothing will have changed and no one will have lost anything other than the time it has taken to read the thread.
Quoted from guitarded:And you only paid an Extra 2k.
Nice negotiating. You could give john Kerry a run for his money with results like that.
And you probably don't have a pot to piss in with that attitude. Ever buy/sell stocks? You win some, you lose some. Same true for pinball transactions. The goal isn't perfection. Again, I received a fun game instead of receiving nothing. Please go assault someone else with your clueless BS.
Quoted from snaroff:And you probably don't have a pot to piss in with that attitude. Ever buy/sell stocks? You win some, you lose some. Same true for pinball transactions. The goal isn't perfection. Again, I received a fun game instead of receiving nothing. Please go assault someone else with your clueless BS.
You seem like your butt hurts?
It is very easy to be taken in by a CONman and I count my blessings. I had a few transactions with Jonathan and he was quite communicative and always came through. He sold me a pin and later he bought one. I was pestering him lately about getting me another one and he could have sold me something he didn’t have, but he didn’t. He did ask if I was interested in an Alien and I told him no. That answer probably kept me off his CON list and it was pure luck. There isn’t much defense against someone who wants to rip you off, but the Op’s post should help others from getting CONned.
A history lesson -
If you remember the Predator scam, after it was uncovered there was no license and it was really a big Ponzi scheme, Kevin and his mom were still actively engaged in soliciting funds from others. If you’ll remember the JPOP scandal when JPOP was discovered to have directly and purposefully taken money for a product he wouldn’t be building, at that very moment he was still actively engaged in soliciting funds from others. If you’ll remember the HP scandal after it was uncovered Andrew did not have the money to build the games he sold and he started promising people he would reimburse them. He was still actively engaged in soliciting funds from others. If you think about DP, when that scandal showed there was no money to build the games paid for and there was no factory full of parts nor games, Barry was actively engaged in soliciting funds from others. Fraudulent sales continue until they can’t. Selling pinball is easy, building pinball is hard, so delivering a paid-for already-built pinball should be a simple transaction, but even that becomes an exercise in trusting whom you deal with.
Don't you think it's strange that this guy is such a huge player but has a small UPS store as his main address and no apparent warehouse? Did anyone in Florida wonder WTF was up with that? Taking deliveries in parking lots with a different name on the box than yours (had someone tell me this about an ASOA transaction)?
And someone is saying he's living in a million dollar house and driving nice cars, but no one knows where he lives or particulars. While I don't expect everyone to know where he lives or where his office is, with all these transactions you'd think it would come up... a mailbox store as his main address? All I have to say is "WOW". anyone moving this much volume would have a warehouse... period. And then you'd have to ask yourself.. why would he hide where his warehouse is and pay for and use a UPS Store front for business? RED FLAGS all the way!!
Think of big hitters like Cointaker, GAP, etc., etc., they all have storefronts and warehouses... and while he may be claiming not to have a storefront to save money, with dealing with machines like this he would most definitely have to have a warehouse.. hell, even with what I deal with my garage is full and I have a storage unit!
And like it's been said... if you feel sorry for this guy or are wanting him to not get in trouble, HIS SCAM HAS and IS WORKING. The reason he has gotten this far is from playing on his victims emotions and making them feel bad about him ripping them off...so much that they didn't go public sooner... which is why it got this far.
This is not a slam on anyone here (except Jonathan) btw... I have been a victim of a scam of a confidence man in the past, and I am no idiot either. These guys (the scammers) are very good at making you feel for them as they're reaching in your pocket and then playing you when they aren't paying you back..
www.truepeoplesearch.com is a great tool for tracking folks down. The house at the address listed isn't in his name according to the Broward County property tax records. The US Pack-N-Ship storefront also shows up in his address history. Really interested to hear where these games were coming from, so others can be educated on what to look out for in the future. Seems like you would have to overpay significantly to buy a NIB through a 3rd party who is not an authorized reseller...there can't be much margin available to be split between two middle-men.
Quoted from crwjumper:I’ve spoken with Jonathan. Please do not attempt to go to his home or involve his family in any way. He appears to be in great distress right now due to this post and the reaction it is having in the community. He may have done many of us wrong, but he is still a person with a family to protect and we must respect that.
He has told me that he will work with me this week. I am not saying that I believe him because he’s made many promises in the past and then broken them.
However I’ve told him that I will be working with the D.O.J. And his local police unless he has made me whole this week.
I’ve held out this long because I’m an honorable man who believes in doing the right thing. Let’s give him one more chance. I will update this post next week with the outcome of what he does.
With all respect to each of you in the community, thank you for your support.
I would say just too bad to his stress. I would show up daily with a bunch of friends and the sheriff.
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