Updating the first post here to keep different projects on track and sorted for new readers. Originally this thread was for just a couple products, but why clog up things with a lot of new threads. I'll just run one big one. Helps keep me on track better this way. New batch of designs just hit the bench and are either ready for some beta testers or will be very soon.

The short version is that when I need beta testers for new products, I'll send out a call here. Eventually I'll get better at keeping track of all this but it can get chaotic at times. Do know that I skip around at times, not everything makes it to production, and sometimes it can take a while depending on how complex things are. I'm more of a manufacturing guy than a design guy, and this is a home business in addition to my regular job.

I hope you guys find all this stuff entertaining, or at least useful. Even simple boards can be a pain so the more input I get the better. Will also give a bit of a window into the world of my design work.





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Finished Beta Testing Projects

New style Williams bench displays. (Universal bench display)
-In production and available now with Williams 6-7 digit code.
http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=64&controller=product&id_lang=1

Gottlieb System 3 Game Control Board A26 "tournament Board".
-In production and available now. New manufacture volume pot makes a world of difference.
http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=72&controller=product&id_lang=1



Temporarily inactive

Gameplan LDU-2/LDU-1 LED compatible replacement.
-First few tests were promising, but having some issues with some circuits not working properly. Will diagnose further when I get a chance, but keep getting pulled in other directions.



Currently Active Testing


Gottlieb System 3 5v power supply.
-Currently doing burn-in testing on my own machine. Found out I had the pinout wrong, so need a new revision.

Gottlieb System 3 Solenoid Output Tester.
- Boards are here, ready to assemble, will be doing initial testing soon.

Yet Another Williams System 3-6 drop target attempt.
-Using reed switches and magnets instead of the horseshoes. First batch worked but needed big dimensional changes. Have new layout ready for my next PCB order coming up.

Bally 6803 Trough Opto Boards
-First test batch is assembled, haven't started testing yet. If things work ok on the bench they should be ready soon.

Wish I could, but that's Steve's design, not mine.

Hell yes you're in.

Somebody told me he's on youtube or something, and you can always trust youtube.

For everybody else, I'm keeping track and will make my decisions in the next couple days here.

-Hans

Vid, you're also another guaranteed slot for a bench display. Always been a huge help in the past.

-Hans

Time to pick the first lucky(?) winner on the Gameplan. I'll do that tomorrow. Due to the cost I'm only doing one right now, with more if this one works.

The bench display I need to program before I start testing. Assuming it works I can do up 4 of these for testers. Again, tomorrow. Time to wind down for the day.

IMGP5696 (resized).JPG

IMGP5698 (resized).JPG

Whoops, wrong style programming header on the display tester, not able to easily upload the initial boot loader....... and they don’t like backwards power. Fried the first one.

Doing another one tomorrow.

Of course, right after I posted this, Marco's sent me a big order. So I've been stuck working on that for a few days.

Going to take another crack and the bench display this weekend.

First reports coming back on the Gameplan board are sounding good, but a couple things to troubleshoot, so the test victim wasn't able to get a game ready in time for Expo. These are a bit more spendy, so I only had parts for one, going to build up another one next week.

-Hans

Figured out my problems, long list of minor changes to make for the next PCB version, but I did finally get one working properly. I'll be ordering more displays here shortly and will have 4 beta units to ship out hopefully by the end of the week. Will send PM's to folks when I have them ready to go.

-Hans

IMG_1467 (resized).JPG

Once I sort out a quicker/easier way to get the bootloader and code into the board layout, I'll have to decide on either going after Bally/Stern or System 11 for the next code revision. Leaning very heavy toward Bally/Stern.

Chris, make sure to PM me your mailing address for when I get these ready to mail.

-Hans

I was thinking the same thing with the displays. Once I get the PCB sorted out I'll get in touch with my code guy. I really want to follow up quickly with the Bally/Stern code. But can't do that till I have a good board design.

Ordering the next revision today. Lots of small changes that I found while trying to bootload these. The -021 version should be pretty darn close to production ready. Not quite confident enough that I'll be ordering a stencil yet though.

Fresh updates from assembly session today on the bench displays.

Turns out the OLED modules are even less standardized than I thought. Some of them have Vcc and Gnd reversed.... so I fried a pair of them today before identifying that problem. Good news is I have the programming much more streamlined now and the processor section looks to be nailed down.

So looks like one more revision before being production ready. But I do have a pair of beta units that are ok and I can send out.

-Hans

Parts enroute for 3 more Gameplan boards, and a dozen bench displays with the revised layout.
If assembly goes well, the bench displays are potentially ready for production.

-Hans

Ok. Current revision PCB on the bench displays looks good. A couple tweaks are still needed to make it easier to build but nothing that would have any effect from a customer standpoint.

So I'm going to release the bench displays for low-rate initial production, I'll probably have 8-10 pieces from this first early run available to sell.
This first few pieces won't have exactly the same layout/parts as the regular production pieces, so they'll be at a discounted price. I still need to work out instructions and harnesses, but I'll have that done by Monday, to start shipping out Tuesday.

http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=64&controller=product&id_lang=1

-Hans

Fixed. I forgot to click the 'active' button, should be able to put it in the cart now.
Site does accept paypal.

-Hans

Probably going to need a new wire harness just because Bally used such a different architecture, but I brought all the I/O's out so it shouldn't need any changes to the PCB. I have 16 I/O's available on the main header, and another 4 on a 'just in case' header.

I have a couple ideas on providing the updated code but it will need some kind of AVR programmer to burn the updates in. So I can either provide the code in a .hex format for people that have one and are able to load it, or I can re-burn it here via a mail-in service. With doing the updates here I'll probably only charge for return shipping.

The only real complication I can see is logistics of getting the new code to somebody with a Bally machine. I currently don't have one.

-Hans

Well, this plan blew up in my face. You guys cleaned me out for the time being on the bench displays and I'm swamped with orders for all sorts of stuff now.
I may have a few more available in a couple days, I'm still dialing in my process to reliably solder on the processor chip.

Going to start going through them as quick as I can, and start get all the parts and pieces ordered for full production.

Edit:
Wasn't sure how good my yield would be, but ended up with two more shippable units than I expected, so just put two more available in the shopping cart

I'll be honest, it's a bit down the priority list, but that possibility is there for sure.
All depends on how things pan out for memory space and things like that.

-Hans

Well, shoot, I forgot that System 9's header were a different layout.
Probably confusing the display with odd signals.

For System 9.....
The BCD connector should go on 1J3 pins 1-9
The Strobe connector should go on connector 1J2

-Hans

That is damn peculiar for sure. Not sure where my old header info came from, it was in my notes from a few years ago, and been a while since I've had a system 9 board here in person. You've definitely got it hooked up right.

How are you powering the tester? If you don't have good ground continuity between them the inputs float and give all sorts of nonsense data. IIRC the analog ground for the sound portion of system 9 boards is somewhat isolated from the digital ground.

That system 9 issue has me perplexed. Any chance you've got a logic analyzer or oscilliscope? I know you probably don't, but I'd be interested to know the timing on strobe 1 and on your blanking line.

Next batch is looking like right around thanksgiving availability. Bare boards are arriving today, just waiting on shipment info for the OLED's, and then I'll order the other parts too.

-Hasns

I've seen a couple instances of flaky capacitors connected to the 555/556 on the blanking signal, which caused it to have a sawtooth signal on the scope instead of a steady logic-high. First time I saw it was tracking down some very odd lamp matrix issues. A flaky blanking signal can cause the outputs on the PIA's to fall off about halfway through every cycle, enough to screw with the outputs but since it was still hitting a logic high intermittently the CPU was still running the code. Since the BCD signals that generates the digits comes from one of the CPU board PIA's, I'm curious if the PIA outputs are dropping out.

Mainly though I do wonder if the strobe timing is different on system 9/11, and if I need to add a different mode to cover those.

-Hans

Yep. Only way to do it without moving up to a much more expensive processor and harness. Resets every time strobe 1 goes low, To prevent drift. That’s why I was wondering if timing may have changed with system 9.

Back from a business trip, and looking into the System 9 issues again. I'm totally perplex, Jim, by the results you're showing in that video. Everything appears to be connected properly.

Only thing I can potentially see that's incorrect is that on 1J3-9 in your photo it looks like the crimp pin is popping out of the housing. But that should theoretically only cause half of the numbers to be correct if driven by that BCD. Not all of them like I'm seeing.

From the research I've seen, timing between system 7 and 9 should also be identical for the strobes. And again, even if wrong, SOME of the signals should still be correct. Digits driven by Strobe 1 should still be solid.

-Hans

Ok, I'll have to admit, these two projects have been a huge thing for me, in a good way. We're talking ground-shaking changes for the business. I'm sitting here with a big smile as I type out this post. You all have been very patient with it all, so let me give some updates here on both of them with the current status, and how it's affecting me here, and how it affects you guys.

1. Bench displays:

I am still looking into the code for what might be causing that system-9 issue, and whatever it takes to rectify that for customers who need that feature, I'll make sure it gets done. In the meantime, full production will be starting in today and ramping up over the next few days. All the parts are here, boards are here with a proper paste stencil, and I'm just cleaning up the programmer to make it more user friendly. First unit is built and in testing now. I'll be updating the website in the next day or so, once they're ready for general sales.

This is part 1 off a huge shift for my business, going to a micro-controller based product. It opens up a lot of doors.
I've needed to develop methods and tooling for handling the code. Rather than kludge it together I've worked to make it efficient for the current scale.
Just slapping the boards together and kicking them out the door I could have done already. But I wanted to streamline it as much as I could.
Better production methods make better product, and I didn't want to dig myself into too deep a customer service hole right from the start.
I'll have some photos tonight or tomorrow showing some of the behind-the-scenes work I've been doing.

Either way, they'll be ready to place orders in a day or two, and shipping very soon afterward.

2. Gameplan LDU boards.

Haven't posted much here, mostly handing the infrastructure for producing this and similar boards. I'm going to be harassing my beta tester to see what's up, and getting more beta boards built here soon. I'll be honest, getting these boards to work will be the easy part. The tough part is going to be production and logistics. There's an exponential increase in parts count here. I cannot build these in-house at production levels with the equipment I currently have. So that's where I've been putting my effort the past couple of months.

Next week, though, I WILL have that needed equipment. I just ordered a brand-new pick and place machine. This should be a lot quicker and easier to bring on-line than doing the AVR programming. I've been programming, maintaining, and operating placement machines for the past 5 years as my career. So we're right in my wheelhouse with this equipment upgrade. Again, HUGE deal for the business. It may be an entry level machine, only a few grand, but it's still a quantum shift in how I'll be building boards. Lots of thru-put improvement, which I badly need right now. Keeping up has been a big struggle the past year or so.

So maybe end of the year I'll be ready for production on these, assuming not much design work is needed other than dimensional changes.

The housings were among the LAST Keltron brand stock that I had on hand. I ran out of those about 2-3 weeks ago, and everything going forward is both Molex brand housings and Molex brand crimps now.

The latest version of the boards has moved to a .156 sized power header as well. I haven't been using locking tabs though. Easy enough to change if it proves to be an issue with the .156's, but I'd prefer to keep without the locking ramp as I have a lot of leftovers from the aux LED adapters as I build those.

If you look at the data on the attract mode, the 550,000 does show up there, but it blinks so stinking fast you can't see it. Looking at things more closely, it looks like I ended up with an incorrect resonator. Should have a 16mhz part and I've been building with an 8mhz. I'm going to follow up with my programmer to see what may be causing the issue with the bad data, should be possible to do a simple code update if that's the issue. Hopefully I don't have to start swapping resonators but I will if I have to.

Step 1 here is going to be making sure I have the problem fixed properly, step 2 will be to get it out to you guys.

Edit:
Here's an oddball question. Since Rottendog doesn't publish a schematic for their board, I assume it's still using a 6808/6802 processor? Is the crystal marked for what speed it is?

Makes perfect sense, and that's what I figured. Looking at the System 9 schematics they moved to a 4mhz oscillator in place of the earlier 3.58mhz crystal. This would potentially alter the interrupt timing enough that my display would be out of sync, and I wonder if Rottendog did the same.

I agree, it's very wonky, and needs to be rectified. Something runs different on System 9 and aftermarket boards that I didn't predict properly. Watching more closely sometimes it's 555000 and sometimes its 500000. The audit mode data, when it's not question marks, looks like the right audit mode data, kinda. The digits for the Credit/BIP appear to be migrating, similar to how attract mode numbers are drifting.

I've contacted my software guy already to start work on the Bally/Stern code, and also about what can be done with the issues you guys are seeing. If I can get it all handled in a single code update that would definitely make it easier for me.

I'd be really curious to know what the logic signal on strobe 1 looks like on those two boardsets. This was all timed with the expectation of strobe 1 going low every 15ms and remaining low for 1ms

Once I get all this sorted out I'll just replace the units for whomever has a -021 revision board. Between needing a code update and having incorrect resonators on them I'd say its justified. I also need to get some correct resonators ordered today as I was JUST about to start shipping the updated versions.

-Hans

Ok, I believe the causes for all the issues have been identified. I'm working through resolution for it all.
Here's the problem/update list for you.

1. Wrong speed resonators installed.
2. Internal fusing wasn't set to use external resonators anyway.

Basically, they were running at approximately half speed, but the internal resonator has a 15% tolerance. So really screwy timing can cause a lot of issues.
All stock that's waiting to ship has both of these problems resolved.

3. Code improperly handling 'blank spaces'

This is your system 7-9 coded 7-digit games (not alien poker or algar which still use 0's for padding).
Purely a software issue, and it's being resolved. Latest code I have almost fixes it, just leaves a single ? in the ball in play display.
Once I get a good code revision, I'll be shipping everything I have sitting here that people are waiting for.
Hoping I can have that on the way quite soon. It's so stinking close.

4. Random weirdness, fading screens, oddball static.

Ok, this one is completely unexpected. Apparently the BCD's and strobes coming from the CPU board can actually power up and run the tester, even without the power clips connected. But since it's logic signals, and not a true power signal, it makes the tester run very unstable and causes odd performance. So if it's just going batshit crazy, check the power connectors.

-Hans

Everything good and stable now, as best I can test for, and I've been shipping the bench displays again.
With the new pick and place here I've also been starting to build ahead a bit more than usual, since it's a lot easier than it had been previously.

So next week or so I'm going to dig back into the purchase history on these and anybody who bought one of the early version will be getting an updated one in the mail.

Then I'll start moving back into dealing with the Gameplan board and getting that ready for more testing.

Sent out an e-mail today to everybody that bought an early version, to get the process underway to get the code and crystal updated on their display testers.

This would be any of them with a part number on the board ending in -021

If you didn't get an e-mail, and this applies to you, let me know.

Shoot me a pm so I can get you a return label. Need your address and phone number.

PM inbound.

Just a quick update on all this. The past couple months have been kicking my ass. Been buried under orders and non-pinball and non-work things that needed attention.

If you have an early version tester here for the upgrade, i'll be trying to get all of them back on the way home by Monday.
If you have an early version tester that needs the upgrade, I'll need your address and phone number to generate a return label for it.

Going to try and get back at the gameplan LDU's as soon as I get an opportunity here.
Need to order a solder stencil, too many parts to individually paste the pads.

-Hans

Waiting on a new stencil to arrive here so I can populate the other proto boards for the Gameplan LDU.
Should have been here a few days ago.

-Hans

I’ll check the tracking number, mailed a replacement out a day or two after I got it.

Edit:
Tracking info says it's in your mailbox as of today.

I honestly haven't had any time to even look at it yet. I had my programmer torn apart to handle the returns on the initial batch. (had an error in the programming header in that first dozen units). Next run though I plan on adding a poly fuse somewhere in the circuit. But that'll be a while, have a good number of the current design on-hand.

-Hans

Holy Moly, I'm definitely not doing FedEx Ground return labels again. Dear god those things ended up being expensive.

-Hans

Well, good news. I need to troll back through this thread and see who I promised beta-test Gameplan boards.

I've got two that just need connectors, and I'm hoping to have those done this weekend.

-Hans

I have two more Gameplan boards still un-claimed for beta testing. I'll be bringing them to MGC with me this weekend coming up.
Feel free to stop by the booth and say hi, and if you're interested in doing the testing work, I'll be giving them away.

-Hans

One more gameplan board ready to out for testing over here. Getting some initial reports of occasional 'strange' things on a couple LED's, but can't quite narrow down what's happening. Occasional LED's not lighting, and occasional flicker.

-Hans

Resurrecting this thread for a few new products either ready to head out, or will be soon.
New items will get individual posts to introduce them, going to get photos and such taken care of momentarily.

Status updates:
1: Moving the Williams bench display to 'finished'. Been a regular product for some time. Will move it back to 'active' once I have bally code.
2: Moving the Gameplan board to 'inactive' till I have time to sort out some of the reported problems I'm having. Not cancelled, just not top priority.
3: Adding new item - Gottlieb System 3 tournament board.
4: Adding new item - Gottlieb System 3 5v power supply.
5: Adding new item - Gottlieb System 3 Solenoid Output Tester.
6: Adding new item - Williams system system 3-6 reed switch drop target boards.
7: Adding new item - Bally 6803 trough opto boards.

First new item: Gottlieb System 3 Tournament Board.

Essentially a new production version of the original, with identical fit and function, but with new parts. Biggest benefit is going to be a new manufacture volume potentiometer, which will cure the scratchy and spotty volume adjustment. That and of course if you don't have one and need one.

Looking for 3-4 beta testers on this one.

GB003-001 (resized).JPG

He does have a valid concern regarding the volume control though.
At least on the ones I've seen, it was a recessed knob that needed a screwdriver to adjust.
The one I used on this run is about the same size body as original but is easily adjusted with bare hands, and you can add a knob if you want.

Ok, been super crazy summer time for me.

Anyway, didn't have any time at all to get testing done on stuff lately. So if anybody is interested, PM me for a sample of the tourney board. I have a few sitting here ready to go.

-Hans

Hoping to get bally in with firmware but no timeline and it’s not guaranteed. Alphanumeric will need more I/O’s so that’ll have to be a different design completely. (Which is why I’m in the market for both a sys11 and Bally/stern machine I’d i can get a good trade).

I've finally had the breathing space to get some testing and documentation done on my end.
The Sys-3 power supply is now doing burn-in testing on my Big-Hurt.
Though I've already identified some changes that need to be made for production pieces.

However, now that the game is back to the original layout I was able to finally test out the 'Tournament Board' properly.
I've now made them available for sale as a regular item, and moving them into the product lineup.

See the link for pricing, wholesale terms also are available.

http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=72&controller=product&id_lang=1

Right now, I'm thinking I need to go back to the drawing board on the drop target retrofit. I'm just not confident in the long term longevity with the reed switch design. There's just too many potential failure points, and the bill of material ballooned pretty quickly once all the hardware and target bank versions were figured in. I haven't given up on the idea but it just hasn't been a priority until I can find a way to make it genuinely affordable and durable.

The Gameplan LDU board, well........ I sent out 6 beta test samples, and only heard back from 2 people. Both of them had issues that need to be worked through. The other 4 people, I hope they're enjoying the free boards, I do wonder if they're working properly. I really need to get a gameplan machine into the shop to test it all out properly, but I haven't had an opportunity come up while I've had the funding to make it happen. However, I did get a new oscilliscope recently and still have two more board blanks I can build up, so once I get through a few other pending projects I am planning to go at this one again soon.

-Hans

Actually, I'd be interested to hear if it works with just incandescents first. I still have a couple board blanks that I may build non-LED style for now, to see if they at least work in that regard.

-Hans

Was just down in Lincoln yesterday and was looking at dothedoo's machines, and he is doing some testing for me.

There's something odd with gameplan, and I haven't figured it out yet. Performance varies a lot from machine to machine. Most games people have tried it in about 80% of the LED's work fine, the remainder either don't work or flicker badly...... but I can't find a common theme about why that happens. And in some games they just go bonkers and just about everything in the game flickers and ghosts. I find this confusing, as the structure of the lamp driver is basically identical to Bally, but the same technique doesn't seem to work.

Might also be my selection of SCR's that I'm using too.

Still digging on that one but haven't had the necessary breakthrough yet.

On a positive note for other projects, I was grabbing an old Stern from him so I can start getting the research done for putting the Bally/Stern code into my bench display. Just by luck of the draw, I also grabbed a Zaccaria as well, so may be able to add both. Talking with my code guy about a plan for these, just need to get this Lectronamo running so I can start pulling timing data.

-Hans

Testing didn't go well with the Gameplan machines I had people try for me. The same methods as used on Bally/Stern didn't seem to work at all. The driver board worked fine with incandescent bulbs but not with LED's. Without a machine of my own, I wasn't able to continue.

I'm going to have room for another machine in a month or so, and might try looking at picking up a Gameplan machine of my own to do more in-depth work on it.

-Hans