Yeah great idea then we can all be assured we are paying the same price. Full List! No thank you. Fact, whether your distributor gives you 10% or 100% love effort and a back rub bottom line it costs you no more to support these guys who are Clearly not getting rich peddling 400# boxes of lights. I won’t call this a labor of love but what they provide is an Additional layer of confidence in your expensive transaction. Find one that makes you happy, support them with your business and you Might be surprised how little old school haggling you really need to do! My distributors (Kingpin & Flipnout) have never made me question if I got a good deal nor worry about the what If’s after sale. Yes they are also a business but they can if needed prove to be your most valuable resource. Even friend!

Because that worked out so well for people who bought from Heighway, or Dutch Pinball or Zidware/Jpop? Maybe Skit-B?

A good distributor provided a lot of other services as well. P.S. I drop ship almost nothing. I bring everything to Denver.

PPS I'm a distributor please done do away with me =)

I read through this thread and called a couple local places looking for a Jurassic Park Pro since people mentioned a $5,200-$5,400 possibility for a pro model. One quoted $5,799 and the other $5,795 so I'll wait for a used one but it was interesting to call around and see what was out there.

This thread is anther perfect example of why economics needs to be taught in school.

Economics is a science. It's a crying shame that when I was in high school, I was forced to take chemistry, biology, earth sciences...yet, economics was an elective.

Retailers keep prices lower and can provide services manufacturers can't.

It doesn’t hurt to do a little shopping around to get a idea of what a fair price is on a game because it’s only good business sense, but to choose where to buy simply on the lowest price is not wise. Service reputation is always important and outweighs that few hundred dollars difference between dealers. That lowest price grab may turn out to be the highest price if you don’t have a great distributor to back you up.

The last 2 NIB games I bought from J.J. were waiting for me to pick up at the terminal LESS THAN 24 HOURS after I ordered them. You can get a pinball machine from J.J. faster than Amazon Prime can ship you a box of diapers.

that is actually pretty normal

Damn - wish that was true for me. I ordered one from him last week that was shipped on Thursday. Instead of coming 6 hours north, it went east to KC and is now sitting in Minneapolis.....

Not necessarily true and ALL my game issues have been settled with the manufacturer and I have used many distributors.

It is 100% true that retailers keep prices lower.

What services are required exactly?

If 100% true than why 100% of the time do I get a better price direct than retailer??? In my experience 100% of the time I pay less direct than through retailer.

Not sure if they are Required but I see them as valuable and appreciated by me. A Few (not all) of the services the distributors I use include:
Notifying me of new title releases so I don’t have to read Pinside 24/7
Contacting me when there are software updates available.
Assistant with delivery often even setup just because they appreciate my business..
Notification of recall type issues or machine updates
Priority repeat business for new release waiting list contact.
Assistance with consignment flips of games that need a new home.
Assistance with product issues and replacements warranty or other.
Continuous feedback and status on new purchases.
Honest feedback on game value and playability.
Most often discounted from OEM pricing without pan handling dozens of dealers. Honest best price, done without asking.
LE or CE type unit number special requests. (OCD thing lol)
Minor feedback (speculation) on potential future titles.
Trade show special events
Trade show test drive of the new titles to assist in a major buying decision.
Assistance in hunting for out of production titles or wish list toys.
Contact on show special pricing events.
A shoulder (friend) to cry on for issues or bad pinball decisions.

I am sure I could come up with Dozens more value added services these distributors provide or I bug them with but I can say with confidence if you find the Right distributor (not all are created equal) you might be surprised at how hard they work in appreciation of your business!

Give an example.

Is it the furniture places? The ones who advertised as direct, ship in the furniture, put it together there, then ship it to you.

I am 100% correct on this...it's called economics.

Wow.

OK cool.

Nice to hear, but just wasn't my experience on the other 2 NIB games I bought that were dropped shipped from Stern. They were 5-7 days out.

Most i have waited from Stern was 2 days, automated was 1 day, and JJP most i have waited is 2 days. 1-2 day is pretty normal

It seems to be more like the automobile industry.

Lord I have not bought furniture in years, but if you could buy direct from a furniture manufacturer then I promise you would save money over shopping at a retail store.

Do you understand retail? Have you ever shopped at Best Buy? You can buy 98% of all that stuff cheaper by going direct. I do not think you understand the difference. I NEVER shop retail for the simple fact it can be gotten cheaper 99% of the time unless they have a strict contract with said retailer.

You used to be able to buy furniture direct. My parents did it back when they had furniture row in NC. I do not know if they do it anymore. People would travel there and shop for days. The manufacturer would ship everything directly to your home.

You are 100% incorrect.

In the manufacturing industry, they do not sell direct to customers. It wouldn't make sense for them...now they would need to carry inventory.

Any company that says they sell direct, I can guarantee are lying. It's like the furniture example I used.

Manufacturing companies are in the business of manufacturing...that's why they have retailers...this way 100% of what is manufactured is sold. I honestly don't understand what is so incredibly difficult to understand about this.

Just because you buy an item online at the cheapest price you can find, does not mean you are buying it direct from the manufacturer. I don’t think you can call Toshiba, Samsung, LG, etc. to purchase anything directly.

I'm a bit curious... Of the 98% Best Buy products What do you buy direct?? I honestly can't think of one unless Sony or Samsung have some back door I haven't seen?

Right, I was thinking the same thing, I do plenty of shopping online and like to shop around on price, but only a small fraction of my purchases are direct from the manufacturer (and I generally find that manufacturers' websites are more likely to sell at MSRP than retailers). What kind of goods are you buying direct Woody?

You can still buy things direct from some manufacturers. It is not always the best price, but you can do it. I know you can buy from Panasonic’s website, Apple, Greenworks, etc. Now, I don’t know if they have outsourced their sales to another company, but, they, like a lot of others sell their items.

Are the machines that JJP sells on their website, not direct from the manufacturer? I don’t know, but it looks like they are direct.

My old company built and managed both Apple and dell us DCs. We shipped direct for all website orders, to stores, to retails stores and education centers. They have a few setup throughout the country to service regions. If you believe they are manufacturing and shipping direct you’re wrong. Majority is 3rd party managed. You are reducing one move from shipping ups/fedex to your house vs a truckload to best buy but it’s not a savings. I can pick and load a trailer with one material handler in an hour that will have thousands of products vs the packaging line that is combining a persons order if they get a phone and accessories into one box to be shipped ups. Much more infrastructure and labor involved in online orders even automated.

Direct does not always mean straight from manufacturer but a distributor as well, My family business is unique in the fact that we manufacture, distribute, and have retail space. I am involved in all three so I do have some experience here. Our retail store cost more than our direct customers.

Direct buying refers to the purchase of goods directly from manufacturers or distributors, bypassing the supply chain customarily traveled by items sold in retail markets. ... While less expensive, direct buying opportunities often present consumers with less variety than retail stores.

The Benefits of Purchasing Direct from the Manufacturer. The internet has made product manufacturers far more accessible than they previously were. ... Another significant benefit to buying direct from a manufacturer is that there will almost always be a better purchase price.

some pinball parts, coin door parts, connectors, etc... I get most from Manufacturer/distro at much cheaper prices than Marco or Pinball Life. Those are just some examples that can relate to us all on this forum.

So what your saying in relation to pinball is if I call Jack or Gary Stern I will get a better price or support then going through a distributor? Not sure I ever paid list for Any machine but you think they are hagglers?

They are, but they will also steer you towards your local dealer (if you are in the area) so you can build a relationship with said distributor if any issues come up.

There are many people on this forum that have the skillset(s) (repair, buying, selling, understanding and communicating any issues) that make a distributor a non-valid point for them. Great, more power to them, but a lot of distributors also have customers that either a) don't care to or b) don't know how to set up their games, fix their games, troubleshoot their games. I have quite a few clients that don't want strangers coming into their house to work on or to potentially buy their games. That is where a distributor comes in.

Distributors also bring games to and man booths at many of the shows that you guys (gals) and people not present here attend. Large companies might have the personnel to have a guy or two for each show, but most of the time it is up to the local distributor to bring games, set up the games, answer questions, break down games and then do it again for the next show.

We all want to feel like we are getting a fair price on everything, i am no different. At the end of the day, the old adage is "you get what you pay for." You can get a cheaper price, but it might be a "better" price.

This entire thing was started because the guy said retail is always cheaper than direct and I said not always true and he come back with 100% true and he is crazy if he thinks that. Now we are here and I still think we can do away with distributors and I still know buying direct is almost always cheaper than retail.

If there where NO distro's and Stern sold to us direct I think we would get a better price. Why would Stern just not sell to us at the same price as a distributor? they are still making the same money and still having to ship games out like they already do and they already have tech support to help with game issues.

No. I think what he is saying he would rather not have distros, so he can get a better price right through the company.
I would prefer that option as well, becasue I do not value Distros as much as you do, becasue I don't need to talk to them at night, I just need them to sell me a machine

EDIT: Sorry I was slow, PC froze

In the lighting industry, many lamp manufacturers are experimenting selling direct to the end user. This means that they are stocking inventory of items that they know will move quickly. I believe Fender also sells their guitars and amps directly from their own website.

And once that genie has been let out of the bottle he’s not going back.

All I can say is I disagree and I can with 100% confidence like Apple with or without a distributor you will Not see a lower price. Guaranteed! Seriously, can you Imagine Stern answering 10’s of Thousands of calls for orders, questions, parts, service, etc?? It takes a week to get a parts order completed!

again, I said NOT always true or most of the time. It all depends on the product or brand, but from my experience and from my business, buying direct is almost always cheaper than buying retail.

I do not buy Apple products, but my kids do and I know my wife shops around and gets apple products much cheaper through other avenues than Apple. I know she got watches and ear buds at much lower prices than what Apple sells them for.

Sorry I think that’s why I’m so confused by your position. Apple Is the Direct OEM, Best Buy (IE one of their Distributors) will always be cheaper as you pointed out. Same as we see in Pinball was the only point.

The question is actually very simple, the answer is the hard part; what would the price be if there were no distros?

We all know distros have a lower price for games (economics!), so if they didn't exist why would wouldn't the games be cheaper through them AKA cutting out the middle man.

Again, there are tons of factors in this equation, but acting like you can't understand it at all is mind boggling.

Again, I said to him NOT always and in most cases. You go buy something at the Apple store, tell me what it is and how much you paid and I promise I will find it cheaper. Direct can also include wholesale distributor basically other than retail supply chain.

Direct buying refers to the purchase of goods directly from manufacturers or distributors, bypassing the supply chain.

You want distro's and I do not. I want the best possible bottom dollar price. I bought my JP Premium for $6700 NIB. I called every other distributor around and no one even got close to that. If I was able to get that price from a distributor imagine what a direct purchase could get me. These are expensive toys and I want the best possible price and I bargain shop everything.

So you don’t feel there would be Heavy costs incurred by the OEM (Stern if you will) to handle this direct business model? Those Thousands of machines out there don’t sell, support, or service themselves? Someone has to do it and Someone has to pay for it no? Do you think their service/support would Improve with this new undertaking in saving you the same 3-400$ you would have gotten from a distributor anyway? Just my view but having a worldwide distributor market of sales and service people could never be successfully captured by a boutique toy builder. Even more fun when there’s an economic swing (that never happens in business....) and they have to let go of 50 people every time. Heck, Apple is a Trillion dollar company and even They have a distributor network.

It would be more money. All the risk is on the distributors, not stern. Before the machine is built, it is sold. That allows stern to keep their prices down. If they are going to stock thousands of unsold games, they need to pass down those costs to us.

So has anyone seen actual invoice for proof that distributors only make that little per game? I have got some NIB pretty cheap, way less than $300-$400 per game. I have heard as little as $200, that is stupid. Why even bother selling them? That is why I am calling BS on that. Stern Premium retail is $7599 and I paid $6700. That is almost $900 difference and no one is going to take a loss to sell one pinball machine. I am sure he made a few bucks at least.

Probably no sense in debating this anyway, Stern will keep the distro model it just makes sense for them, I just personally would rather not have it.

Not sure if distributors purchase these pins from stern when they warehouse them but If they do then that’s a huge benefit to stern to take them off their books

I don't know, which is why i said there are many factors and the answer isn't easy, and I am appreciating all your input.
I'm just one person, and I've never needed a distro for any reason. You are one person, and have used them every time for multiple things, even setting up your games which may be a bit of a dick move at this point

I'm sort of on the pro side where the people I know & myself don't need a distro but I know there's a large segment of people that do need that help. Now, help setting up a game could be watching a video on youtube, the same way my elliptical trainer came to me...so possible streamlining of many processes would be needed.

I don't know aboot service becasue I don't need service, when I do I call Stern and the send me a new part. I see what you're saying if the distros are out there on the road all the time fixing problems.
So how does JJP do it then? Or can they just because their volume is lower?

Every game stern makes is sold.

The only time a game sits at Stern, is when it goes overseas. However, that game is already paid for.

IMO, Jersey Jack should go to 100% distributor model. If they have any games sitting in their warehouse, waiting to be sold, they are then losing money on the machine.

I do know that distributors have to buy so many games per year. There is some number per Stern/JJP I do not remember off the top of my head. You have to also think they chose to get into this industry and to be able to be a Stern dealer they have to buy so many games up front per year. Stern/JJP have to do this or every tom, dick, and harry on earth would be a dealer, but I do know it is not a crazy number of games. It is a number that anyone should be able to sell if you want to be in this market. Even at this contracted number Stern still has to warehouse some games.

Many of those services are because you purchased so many NIB machines in the past. I'm sure you are buddies with them as well because I am willing to bet if I purchased my next game off them I wouldn't get all those benefits. I have purchased a few NIB machines from a variety of distributors so can speak from experience. Just the way the world operates and it's fine. I only shop at one jewelry store now because I have spent a lot of money there over the years and they give me a nice discount on anything I buy.

maybe there should be a lower price for us and then if joe schmo and family want a game they pay more and get the distro 1st class treatment.

That's what retail sales are for! Add on a "Service contract" fee
That's kind of already baked in because I'm sure as shit not paying the prices you hear newbs paying, obviously.

I think we are roughly on the same page. When you think about it as a less then Me business problem it makes sense. If everyone in this hobby was 100% self sufficient things could change a bit but I’m sure even you would agree buy some of the questions on this forum not Everyone is or will be at the same knowledge level. And as for the game setup, it was volunteered as a friend not a request. Sometimes people do kind things just because they are kind or appreciate your business not as a chore.