(Topic ID: 65058)

POLL ADDED!! - Best "Old School" SS Pin - Please Vote!


By Jags

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 131 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Acampero
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Topic poll

“What is the Best "Old School" SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball?”

  • Blackout 7 votes
    12%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 20 votes
    33%
  • Seawitch 6 votes
    10%
  • Paragon 16 votes
    27%
  • Flash 3 votes
    5%
  • Gorgar 8 votes
    13%

(60 votes)

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There are 131 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 6 years ago

The early 80s games are some of the best pins ever made in any era. They have the artwork, gameplay, and themes which stand the test of time. Ball times are short and shot accuracy is key.

EBD- Classic game.. Set the bar for years to come. Knocking down the racks to build bonus which carries over is a rush. Actually, maxxing out the bonus and playfield multipliers for 840K is very difficult to do. I have yet to do it on my game.

FG- Does have ramps but does not have MB. The hardest early SS in my opinion. The game is beautiful and extremely frustrating to play as it will kick you in the balls over and over. The times it does give out a good game hooks you on it forever. Getting the 5X playfield going is very tough and rewarding. The strobe in the backglass is awesome.

Centaur- I know has MB. But the way you add MBs to the table by making shots in order is so original and satisfying. One of the best pinballs of all time.

Fathom- 2 and 3 ball MB for big bonus. Beautiful art package. Great spinner sound effects.

Those are just Ballys. Stern had Meteor and Seawitch. Gottlieb had HH and BH. The 8 I just mentioned would make one hell of a lineup in a gameroom. Unfortunately, I only have a few of them.

mike

#52 6 years ago

The early 80s games are some of the best pins ever made in any era. They have the artwork, gameplay, and themes which stand the test of time. Ball times are short and shot accuracy is key.

EBD- Classic game.. Set the bar for years to come. Knocking down the racks to build bonus which carries over is a rush. Actually, maxxing out the bonus and playfield multipliers for 840K is very difficult to do. I have yet to do it on my game.

FG- Does have ramps but does not have MB. The hardest early SS in my opinion. The game is beautiful and extremely frustrating to play as it will kick you in the balls over and over. The times it does give out a good game hooks you on it forever. Getting the 5X playfield going is very tough and rewarding. The strobe in the backglass is awesome.

Centaur- I know has MB. But the way you add MBs to the table by making shots in order is so original and satisfying. One of the best pinballs of all time.

Fathom- 2 and 3 ball MB for big bonus. Beautiful art package. Great spinner sound effects.

Those are just Ballys. Stern had Meteor and Seawitch. Gottlieb had HH and BH. The 8 I just mentioned would make one hell of a lineup in a gameroom. Unfortunately, I only have a few of them.

mike

#53 6 years ago

The early 80s games are some of the best pins ever made in any era. They have the artwork, gameplay, and themes which stand the test of time. Ball times are short and shot accuracy is key.

EBD- Classic game.. Set the bar for years to come. Knocking down the racks to build bonus which carries over is a rush. Actually, maxxing out the bonus and playfield multipliers for 840K is very difficult to do. I have yet to do it on my game.

FG- Does have ramps but does not have MB. The hardest early SS in my opinion. The game is beautiful and extremely frustrating to play as it will kick you in the balls over and over. The times it does give out a good game hooks you on it forever. Getting the 5X playfield going is very tough and rewarding. The strobe in the backglass is awesome.

Centaur- I know has MB. But the way you add MBs to the table by making shots in order is so original and satisfying. One of the best pinballs of all time.

Fathom- 2 and 3 ball MB for big bonus. Beautiful art package. Great spinner sound effects.

Those are just Ballys. Stern had Meteor and Seawitch. Gottlieb had HH and BH. The 8 I just mentioned would make one hell of a lineup in a gameroom. Unfortunately, I only have a few of them.

mike

#54 6 years ago

Mike,

Can you please spell out the abbreviated pin names. Without the full names I really don't know the pins by just the abbreviations.

Thanks!

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

Mike,
Can you please spell out the abbreviated pin names. Without the full names I really don't know the pins by just the abbreviations.
Thanks!

FG = flash gordon
EBD = eight ball deluxe
BH = black hole
HH = haunted house

#56 6 years ago

Eight Ball Deluxe

Black Knight

#57 6 years ago

Stingray.

#58 6 years ago

Flash, grogar, meteor xenon (her voice! " enter xenon" damn right I will.) ! Difficult to choose.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

I'd vote for Paragon, Flash, Eight Ball Deluxe

Quoted from sanctumwear:

Seawitch
Meteor
Joker Poker
Future Spa
Skateball
Blackout

Quoted from TheShameGovernor:

Paragon, EBD, Medusa...just pick a Bally from that era- they are all phenomenal tables. +1 to Seawitch and Meteor.

Quoted from o-din:

Joker Poker

Quoted from RWH:

Star Race, Paragon, Eight ball Deluxe.

Quoted from underdog:

Flash, ... meteor

Quoted from PinKeeper:

Eight Ball Deluxe

Posters above please explain why you consider these the best.

Posters above please follow the guidelines for your suggestions:

Quoted from Jags:

Please be specific in your reasons why you chose a specific pin or pins. What makes its' layout and play the best representative of "Old School" Pin mastery? Does its' solid state technology bring it past others in the field while still maintaining the "Old School" charm? Does its' artwork stand way ahead of others? Or does it have an unsurpassed theme?

Remember we are looking to discuss SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball.

#60 6 years ago

Gorgar, great artwork and heartbeat sounds.

#61 6 years ago

Based on the pins that have been mentioned more than once so far, the top contenders are:

Blackout
Eight Ball Deluxe
Seawitch
Paragon
Meteor
Flash
Gorgar
Joker Poker

Some of these have been mentioned a few times but no one has given any reasons why they think they are the best of the SS "Old School" pins based on the criteria I set forth. I am planning to add a poll to this thread tomorrow so that we can get some numbers behind these selections. But to make the poll the pin will need more than just one description why it's the best.

If you listed a pin without telling us why please do so. And if any of these pins are your favorites please tell us why they are the best.

Keep them coming!!

#62 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

Posters above please explain why you consider these the best.

Because they're fun? This is just pinball after all...

I vote for Meteor and EBD (have them) and Joker Poker (want to buy one!)

Honorary mention to Black Hole since multiball is so dang hard to get

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from sysprog:

Because they're fun? This is just pinball after all...

Yes you are correct in that they are all fun. But I think you are missing the point of this thread. I'm trying to determine what would be the KING of the "Old School" SS Pins. The Best of the Best when it comes to SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball. The crowning achievement in Old School Pinology.

Quoted from sysprog:

Honorary mention to Black Hole since multiball is so dang hard to get

Sorry but Black Hole doesn't fit the criteria set forth. No multi-ball allowed.

Quoted from sysprog:

I vote for Meteor and EBD (have them) and Joker Poker (want to buy one!)

Please explain why you voted for these pins being the best.

#64 6 years ago

Gorgar, has that great art package and is a hard one for sure. I like EBD too. Alien Poker is great too, miss it for sure......

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from crassmage:

I like EBD too. Alien Poker is great too,

Can you be more specific?

#66 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

Can you be more specific?

EBD for all reasons already mentioned. Alien Poker is a target lovers game for sure. Have to knock them down in order or get penalized. ANd Gorgar is just a sight to behold. Plays ok but keeps me coming back for more. Help?

#67 6 years ago

Thanks crassmage!

#68 6 years ago

Anyone mention Galaxy?

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Anyone mention Galaxy?

Tell us why you like Galaxy and why you consider it the best "Old School" SS pin.

#70 6 years ago

Flash Gordon. It can be a brutal game but very rewarding when you have a good ball. The game doesn't have a multiball but it's fast and the combination of inline drop targets, three flippers and two way kick out hole make it a classic in my book. The art work is also stunning.

#71 6 years ago
Quoted from BoP:

Flash Gordon.

BoP,

Did you read the original post? It says:

Quoted from Jags:

Remember we are looking to discuss SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball.

Flash Gordon has ramps thus it's not considered as an "Old School" SS pin. It does not fit the criteria for this discussion. Sorry.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

BoP,
Did you read the original post? It says:

Flash Gordon has ramps thus it's not considered as an "Old School" SS pin. It does not fit the criteria for this discussion. Sorry.

Sorry

#73 6 years ago

Best games of the early 80s

Medusa
Centaur
Flash Gordon
EBD
Embryon
Fathom
Elektra
Vector

All have the most detailed and prettiest art of the era, built alot better than Sterns, Williams and Gotteliebs and all have completely different setup, layouts and Gameplay. Unlike Williams Not to say williams and Stern made some cool machines but sterns seem plain and like alot more could have been done to them.
bally wasnt afraid to put some time and effort into their game designs and seemed to have pretty cool themes.

#74 6 years ago

- Another vote for Medusa. Complex rules and beautiful artwork.
- You may also consider some gems from Europe. The best zaccarias have an upper transparent PF. If you eliminate them, it leaves us with one candidate: BlackBelt (not the Bally, known here under a different name). The roto target is a high risk / high reward shot. Strategy may vary as one has a lot a freedom in game settings for Red and Orange "specials". Worth a try, although clearly not the best pre 85 pin...
- A very rare game that seems to fit your agenda is Williams Defender. Played it once... no multiball nor ramps if I recall correctly. Unable to rank it but it seems to have interesting rules.

Result could be different by allowing ramps, multiball, and upper/lower PF.

#75 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

Tell us why you like Galaxy and why you consider it the best "Old School" SS pin.

I was asking a question, not saying if I liked it. I was interested to see some opinions since other Stern / Seeburg pins of the era were mentioned.

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from lostlumberjacks:

Are there any good games before sterns le's. playing those old games is like watching paint dry. ; )

Then you are playing them wrong.

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

- Another vote for Medusa. Complex rules and beautiful artwork.
- You may also consider some gems from Europe. The best zaccarias have an upper transparent PF. If you eliminate them, it leaves us with one candidate: Blackbelt (not the Bally, known here under a different name). The roto target is a high risk / high reward shot. Strategy may vary as one has a lot a freedom in game settings for Red and Orange "specials". Worth a try, although clearly not the best pre 85 pin...
- A very rare game that seems to fit your agenda is Williams Defender. Played it once... no multiball nor ramps if I recall correctly. Unable to rank it but it seems to have interesting rules.
Result could be different by allowing ramps, multiball, and upper/lower PF.

Defender DOES have multiball.

#78 6 years ago

Please remember we are looking to discuss SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball. Also I would like to read what your opinion regarding the pin is. Why would you consider it the best?

Quoted from Hellfire:

Best games of the early 80s
Centaur
Flash Gordon
Embryon
Fathom
Elektra
Vector

Sorry these games have ramps and or multi-ball thus they not considered as an "Old School" SS pin. It does not fit the criteria for this discussion. Sorry

Quoted from jlm33:

- Another vote for Medusa. Complex rules and beautiful artwork.

Not sure what to do with Medusa. Yes it fits the stated criteria but it is far from an "Old School" design.

#79 6 years ago

I'm a big fan of Joker Poker, due to the combination of the target layout and approachability of the rules.

Ball 1 = 10 card = 1 drop target
Ball 2 = Jacks = 2 drop target bank
Ball 3 = Queens = 3 drop target bank
Ball 4 = Kings = 4 drop target bank
Ball 5 = Aces = 5 drop target bank

Pure elegant simplicity. Who needs a rule card? The machine itself makes it obvious what to shoot for, and when.

Now, throw in multiball, and you've got another #1 vote for Fathom from me....

Later,
EV

#80 6 years ago

Well if the crieria is so small You should eliminate the pre 85 SS in the title and relabel it Pre 1980 SS pins or Pre XENON. Honestly i think the pre 80 games blow and none of them are great in any real way.
If you want to get technical Medusa fits the criteria you asked for and so does Spectrum like it or not.
If this topic is limited to the flat boring SS or pretty much EM with digital displays I dont think any of them were realy great obsolutely not the best.

#81 6 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

Well if the crieria is so small You should eliminate the pre 85 SS in the title and relabel it Pre 1980 SS pins or Pre XENON. Honestly i think the pre 80 games blow and none of them are great in any real way.
If you want to get technical Medusa fits the criteria you asked for and so does Spectrum like it or not.
If this topic is limited to the flat boring SS or pretty much EM with digital displays I dont think any of them were realy great obsolutely not the best.

Jag created a topic that was good in concept, and the sucked the life out of it with a bunch of stipulations. You pretty much have summed up what his requirements for an "Old School" pin is (and Old School is kind of a grey area subject to opinion).

-1
#82 6 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

Well if the crieria is so small You should eliminate the pre 85 SS in the title and relabel it Pre 1980 SS

I chose 1985 because I simply did not know exactly what year a non-ramp and non-multiball may have still been made. 1985 was my best educated guess. With the facts that have been gathered so far it does seem that 1980-81 would be a more accurate cut-off date. Plus it really doesn't matter if you read the original post and the detailed criteria that is stipulated there.

Quoted from Hellfire:

If this topic is limited to the flat boring SS or pretty much EM with digital displays I dont think any of them were realy great obsolutely not the best.

Yes I agree that limited to this "Old School" group of SS Pins with a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball, they are not going to be better than pins that did have those features during that time period. But again that is not the point. We are trying to determine which pin that IS limited to those criteria would be considered the best.

What I consider "Old School" pin design are those pins that have a standard flat playfield, no ramps, no toys, and no multi-ball. These types of pins still were being produced at the beginning of the solid state era. I just want to determine which solid state pin with an Old School design would be considered the best.

Hope that clarifies things for those of you that don't seem to get it.

Quoted from Hellfire:

If you want to get technical Medusa fits the criteria you asked for and so does Spectrum like it or not.

Medusa and Spectrum look like great pins and yes they do fit the criteria. So why don't you give us some detailed reasons why you would consider these to be the best? Perhaps their advanced use of the technology available to them at that time will put them on the top.

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Jag created a topic that was good in concept, and the sucked the life out of it with a bunch of stipulations.

The problem is NOT my topic, the concept, or the stipulations I attached. My original post is VERY CLEAR in it's description and explanation of what I wanted to achieve with this thread.

The BIG problem here is that some of you simply DID NOT READ the original post!! You could at least read the original post before making your own post based on incorrect assumptions. You can't put everything in a title. And to reply to a thread simply based on the title without reading the original post is the easiest way to make yourself look foolish.

Remember the old saying: When you ASSUME You make an ASS out of U and ME!!!

#84 6 years ago

Another nod for EBD, Centaur and Fathom from me.

#85 6 years ago

I once tried to compile a "best game until surpassed by a better list" which really reminds me of this thread... Went something like this for your required date range.

For early Solid State 1977-1984 (in chronological order):

Evil Knievel
Eight Ball
Joker Poker
Flash
Paragon
Firepower (doesn't meet requirements) 1980
Eight Ball Deluxe
Fathom (doesn't meet requirements)
Medusa
Black Hole (doesn't meet requirements)
Centaur (doesn't meet requirements)
Time Machine (Zaccaria) (doesn't meet requirements)
Space Shuttle (doesn't meet requirements)

So, if you are wanting strictly "before solid state multiball", you need to cut your list at 1980 with Firepower's release. Of the 7 on the list above, I would say EBD has held up the best along the lines of "timeless classic" and best early SS pinball.

The reason is that it's easy to understand what you need to do. However, it is one of the most frustrating games every created from the player's perspective.

EBD and Medusa are really the end of an era that would never exist again. This list intentionally leaves out some really killer games like Seawitch, Skateball, Star Gazer,Big Game to name a few. This is mainly because those games centered around elements that were really a "been there, done that already" event in the history of pinball.

#86 6 years ago

Snyper2099,

Thanks for the great post with all that info. It really helps narrow down some of the top pins that would fit the "Old School" criteria I have set forth. I just wish that we could get some more input from fellow pinsiders on why these pins were great.

Fellow Pinsiders! Please look through the pins mentioned below and give us your opinions on which ones you think are the best! And if you have any other great "Old School" SS Pins that you think should be added to the list please let us know and tell us why.

Blackout
Eight Ball Deluxe
Seawitch
Paragon
Meteor
Flash
Gorgar
Joker Poker
Evel Knievel
Medusa

#87 6 years ago

I chose Eight Ball Deluxe because of the pool ball drop targets and inline bonus multiplier drop targets. EBD had nasty sling shots that would drain the ball to the out lanes in a blink of an eye and made ball control very difficult. At least for me.

I played them all in the late 70's/80's/90's and EBD always kept me coming back for more and I wasn't alone.

I know it doesn't fit your post criteria, but I also mentioned Black Knight, because that pin was a HUGE hit in the arcades I spent time in. I was lucky to grow up in Nevada and we had lots of arcades with lots of pins. BK drew more attention than any other pin I ever saw. Only other pins that I ever saw have the same kind of response was Kiss and Addams Family. BK might not have the same appeal now, but it was the most mesmerizing pin I ever played as a teenager (early 80's) and has many great features for that era.

Just my two cents.

#88 6 years ago

PinKeeper,

Great response!! Thanks!

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from TheShameGovernor:

Paragon, EBD, Medusa...just pick a Bally from that era- they are all phenomenal tables.

Quoted from Jags:

Posters above please explain why you consider these the best.

In my opinion, Bally embraced the solid state capabilities better than anyone else at the time (with Williams a very close second). Their artists on hand were putting out some of the most detailed, stunning art packages anyone had ever seen. Their machines became faster and harder, and their rules became more complex and strategic. I think the majority of machines put out by Bally in this era are absolute masterful examples of what the solid state technology was capable of at the time. I only picked Paragon, EBD, and Medusa because they fit your strict criteria, but honestly, I don't think this is what you are looking for in your discussion.

You are looking for the best EM style game with Solid State scoring, and for that, we need to look at the Gottlieb power team of Ed Krynski and Gordon Morison. These guys were EM veterans that used the solid state technology not to break any new ground, but to refine the classic play of EMs. Sinbad, Genie, and Joker Poker are all great examples of basically EM rules (simple to learn, hard to master), with great art packages, and that delicious thick crunch of a Gottlieb drop target. These were fun tables, but nothing reinvented the wheel here.

Quoted from Jags:

What would be considered the best of the "Old School" style flat playfield SS Pins that could be considered the crowning achievement of this style of Pinball Play?

I think the crowning achievement of EM play did not occur with the introduction of Solid State technology. It occurred with EMs.

#90 6 years ago

Eight Ball Deluxe and Paragon

#91 6 years ago

Aw come on guys. Black Hole wins this competition hands down.
Why? Two levels, speech and possibly the best (and hardest to get)
mutliball of this era.
Spiderman and Sinbad would be my next choices.
Steve

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from deeznuts:

Space Shuttle (sys 9) is the furthest i'll go back. i played every one on the list and it might be only one worth buying.
almost everything pre 85 is a guaranteed turd imo, with exceptions to the artwork and some audio. it's like collecting crappy bands because they have cool album covers. it wouldn't make sense, just to have because it's a "classic".
i think the old timers love the pre 85 stuff. mid 40's to 50+ are going to argue about these sleepers all day. the gameplay is just too slow and boring for me. the only upside, is the price tag, because you can buy them in bulk.
pre 85 arcade machines are a different story. pinball was finally interesting post 1985.

I sort of thought this way until I played Seawitch a little over a year ago. Since that game made me change my opinion on "old" games, it gets my vote for the best SS game. I find it fairly challenging to get 7x multiplier and keep racking up bonus points. As far as "slow and boring", a game where the key shots you have to make put the ball out of control making you have to recover every shot, instead of getting a nice easy feed off a ramp, is anything but slow and boring.

#93 6 years ago

Gorgar..... Great theme to play on, sound fits, love the magnet in upper corner.

After that sea witch then flash. I love me some flash.

#94 6 years ago

Thanks TheShameGovernor and kennywawa for both of your great discourses!

Quoted from swf127:

Eight Ball Deluxe and Paragon

swf127, can you please elaborate why you chose Eight Ball Deluxe and Paragon?

Quoted from zarco:

Aw come on guys. Black Hole wins this competition hands down.
Why? Two levels, speech and possibly the best (and hardest to get)
mutliball of this era.

Hey zarco, did you read the criteria set forth in the original post? Black hole does not qualify for this discussion because it DOES have multi levels and multi ball!!

Quoted from zarco:

spiderman and Sinbad would be my next choices.

These 2 pins do qualify. Can you share with us why you think they are so great?

Quoted from GizzArd:

After that sea witch then flash. I love me some flash.

Please elaborate if you can. Thanks!

#95 6 years ago

Here is an update on the list. Each of these pins has been mentioned at least twice. But some of them have not had any discussion presented why they should be chosen as the best. Without any discussion they will not be included in the upcoming poll.

Blackout
Eight Ball Deluxe
Seawitch
Paragon
Meteor
Flash
Gorgar
Joker Poker
Evel Knievel
Medusa
Sinbad
Big Game
Skateball
Genie

Please look through the pins mentioned above and give us your opinions on which ones you think are the best! And if you have any other great "Old School" SS Pins that you think should be added to the list please let us know and tell us why.

FYI: I checked the IPDB and there were over 300 SS pins made before 1981 that did not have ramps or multi-ball!!

#96 6 years ago

Too bad there are no games with the word Star in them present.

#97 6 years ago
Quoted from schwarz:

Too bad there are no games with the word Star in them present.

I've been through that quest many many times!!

#98 6 years ago

Speakeasy meets your criteria and has some features that make it unique and fun.

1. The only SS game that has Add-a-ball AND replay at the same time.
2. Has a spinning roulette wheel in the playfield that awards bonus points, or adds or subtracts a ball.
3. Has flyaway targets.
4. Has a button when pressed subtracts points, in exchange for removing completed lanes that are not 'in order' (if lanes are completed 'in order', two balls are awarded).
5. The playfields were made of some kind of resin, and usually look like new.
6. The head was the about the same width as the playfield (to make it look retro perhaps).
7. Was produced in 2 player and 4 player versions.

#99 6 years ago
Quoted from Jags:

Please look through the pins mentioned above and give us your opinions on which ones you think are the best!

OK I vote for...
Blackout - Love the flow, spinner shots art and classic Williams sounds
Sea Witch - Upper playfield with outer loops and inner pop nest with drops and stand ups is great.

#100 6 years ago

I didn't read all the responses, so maybe someone else said this already. Just because it has multiball shouldn't rule out a game as not old school. There are EM multiball pins out there. Nip It being one.

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