(Topic ID: 241385)

Best play field restorer


By lmcdonald111

32 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 27 days ago by kruzman
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 32 days ago

I had HSA restore our Grand Prix EM playfield a few years ago.

The area around the inserts had a few issues. With time these have gotten much worse.

I’m told it’s an insert issue.

Who is the best to contact to fix this issue?

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#2 32 days ago

It's Pinball-Dreams.com.
But it was in general not a high quality restoration due to if I see the cut out's around the lettering, etc.
So my recommendation is: Don't do any further restoration, keep it as it is

#3 32 days ago
Quoted from the_one:

It's Pinball-Dreams.com.
But it was in general not a high quality restoration due to if I see the cut out's around the lettering, etc.
So my recommendation is: Don't do any further restoration, keep it as it is

Agreed - don't think there is much hope of making that text any better unless you want to pay 10X what the game is worth

#4 32 days ago

Its more of the inserts that the OP is concerned about. To be fair, I believe high_end_pins does the same with lettering/text on playfields. (correct me if I'm wrong). He covers them and paints the solid colors around them. The difference here is that when HEP does it, it doesn't have quite the thick layer of paint as what the OP shows. Makes me wonder that if I took my fingernail underneath that edge, if I could pick it off.

#5 32 days ago

Thank you

The round insert circles - see the area coming through the black ring?

This probably has at most 500 plays since restoration. It’s in climate control and has been to TPF and won best 70 EM. In this state I won’t take to a show as it’s not up to what I expect to see.
I’m not concerned about money - my goal is near perfection.

It’s was restored as it’s my wife’s favorite.

#6 32 days ago

Wow that's rough

#7 32 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I believe high_end_pins does the same with lettering/text on playfields. (correct me if I'm wrong).

Your NOT wrong, and he even did a GP!

Approx mid restore:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/6#post-4610616

#8 32 days ago

He does a fantastic job.

#9 32 days ago

As I live in Kansas City - who is the best in the USA to do this?

#10 32 days ago

That last photo is just disgraceful. I'd be afraid you need to start again with another pf, and cannabalize parts from this one.

#12 32 days ago

high end pins hands down if price isn't a factor.

#13 32 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

You might want to consider kruzman

Kruzman just does NOS, doesn't touch up.

#14 32 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Kruzman just does NOS, doesn't touch up.

Good to know, and that's too bad.

#15 32 days ago

I think this problem arises if the inserts are not removed and reset with epoxy. You take an insert glued in with 35 your old factory glue, then lay on the clear coat and the insert is semi-bonded to the clear coat while the old glue sort of looses its hold; Then the keyline at the inset/wood starts showing stress.

I don't know absolutely if this is what is happening but I can think of nothing else that would cause this problem.

To fix it, you are going to have to cut the old insert out and set in a new one. The question is how are you going to remove the old insert?

#16 32 days ago

I agree to a certain extent with @cottonm4. What you are seeing is ghosting of the clearcoat due to different rates of expansion and contraction between the inserts and the playfield. Removing all of the inserts and regluing them prior to repainting does greatly reduce the chances of this occurring but may not totally eliminate it. What kind of bulbs do you have under the inserts? Incandescent bulbs give off way more heat than leds. I have found that incandescent bulbs under the inserts of restored playfields have a higher likelihood of insert edge ghosting than leds. For this reason, I have taken to using only led lights under the inserts of my restorations regardless of the era of the machine.

The most bomb proof method of repair would probably be to remove the inserts (if possible without damaging the inserts or the nearby paint work), reglue them, touch up the paint and reclear. I feel this is more work/expense than this playfield is worth and is risky due to the difficulty of removing the inserts now that they are buried under additional layers of clear.

If it were me, I would just live with it as is. If you are really intent on fixing it, I would shoot for a middle ground approach: sand the clear to give it tooth, touch up the keyline separations and reclear it (and switch the under playfield illumination to led if you haven't already).

#17 32 days ago

Not too many folks doing PF restorations anymore. RK is one of the best, but only does clears now. HSA is out of business. I’ve heard Neo might work EM PFs. HEP did a full-up restore on my GP, maybe see if he’ll do just your PF.

#18 32 days ago

Here’s the pin at TPF in 2017

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#19 32 days ago

HEP....next question...

#20 32 days ago

Is that first pic Ed Robertson playing you machine?

#21 32 days ago

I did the restoration except for the playfield. All original pieces except the legs.

Yes that’s Ed playing.

He is great fun.

#22 31 days ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

If you are really intent on fixing it, I would shoot for a middle ground approach: sand the clear to give it tooth, touch up the keyline separations and reclear it (and switch the under playfield illumination to led if you haven't already).

I think this is the only way to "fix" it. All the inserts need to be secured from the underside of the PF before doing this. Water thin super glue is probably the best way to do this. If you don't get the inserts secured, you'll probably get more shifting, lifting, and ghosting in the future.

#23 31 days ago

I remember playing this at TPF that year. Beautiful game! Playfield does look rough. I would send it to Keith Holbrook.

#24 31 days ago

I remember playing it at the TPF a few years ago. Beautiful game as I remembered.

I believe this is your playfield here: http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/hsa121714gprix.html

I had the same thing happen to an AFM playfield that Playfield Renovations restored. Several of the inserts shifted and caused ghosting. What happened in my case is that I had the playfield lifted with the one (right side) support rod and it twisted the playfield (overnight). This caused the inserts to shift and several ghosted on me. I did speak to Chris at PFR many years ago and he said that this is common when the playfield twist. It has to do with the wood and the plastic inserts being made of a different material and how the inserts are glued in.

#25 31 days ago
Quoted from Tommy-dog:

I had the same thing happen to an AFM playfield that Playfield Renovations restored.

I also had this happen to an AFM playfield. Mine was restored by HSA. It was never propped or twisted.

When I restored and clearcoated my TZ PF I made sure I locked in the inserts from the back with water thin superglue. 7 years later and well over 1K plays, no insert issues.

#26 31 days ago
Quoted from stangbat:

I think this is the only way to "fix" it. All the inserts need to be secured from the underside of the PF before doing this. Water thin super glue is probably the best way to do this. If you don't get the inserts secured, you'll probably get more shifting, lifting, and ghosting in the future.

Supergluing them in from the back may prevent more deterioration, but how do you repair/restore the keylines that are already "broken"?

#27 31 days ago

Yes that is our GP at HSA

#28 31 days ago

Who is Keith Holbrook ?

#29 31 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Supergluing them in from the back may prevent more deterioration, but how do you repair/restore the keylines that are already "broken"?

Like pinheadpierre said, scuff sand the PF for adherence, touch up the black around the inserts where the clear has broken, then re-clear the PF. If the clear is compromised like in the first pic, you may have to chip out the bad area and drip in some clear, let it cure, then sand it flat, then touch up, then re-clear.

#30 29 days ago

Hello. I just wanted to clear up that I paint pf's almost every day. 99% of nos and half of repros require paint. Sometimes it is just fine cracks between the inserts and the wood. I do restorations, only one at a time, and I am not accepting any restor work right now. There are pics of a paragon and a flash I just restored here on pinside.

Concerning your pf and its issues. I reglue inserts on every pf older than 1980. some pf's after I reglue where necessary. I found that on the pfs made 1980 and before, the glue is beyond its designed life and it is brittle. the last thing I would want to do is seal the top down when the inserts are not stable. I have never known HSA to do this, but it is possible they did. I dont know anything about the job.
cheers, kruz

#31 27 days ago

I have found in my experience that superglue is not a great idea for inserts. it is to hard and does not flex at all. there is such a difference between the expansion rates of plastic and wood that you need the glue to flex a bit. I use an epoxy that I found does just that

#32 27 days ago

Kruz

Who do you suggest to repair this?

#33 27 days ago

I think in this case neo would be really good for it. He has been doing them long enough he knows about the things like this. if it wasnt the pf in your game, I would see if I could help ya, but it would be one of those things that since so many people have been waiting for me to do a restore for them, I would be a bit of a dick to do it. If I do more than one restore, while doing nos and repros, I cant make my rent. I have it set up to just make it right now. My clear process takes 13 weeks plus all of the other crap, so I never work on pfs' that are pulled out of a game. I do a core so it the parts can get switched over, but that has no revelence here.
I am just sorry you got what you got and wish I could help. so I am confident if neo is not to booked up you communicate well your concerns, you can get it fixed up....again.
hope that helps.
If you have any questions about the nuts and bolts feel free to pm me
cheers kruz

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