Awfull, but Fair.

Right I mean when I grew up playing pins in a pool hall always had music playing well over the sound of the games. I wonder if most do not play their own music on radio or stereo system when playing home pins. It’s nice to mix it up, yes I like hearing sounds on the games but all get repetitive and enjoy my own music playing in the background louder at times.

Premium:
1. Godzilla - So much going right with this one.
2. Avengers - love so many shot, I don’t notice the crappy callouts playing it on route.
3. Jurassic Park - this one just doesn’t speak to me. I assume it’s my fault.
N/A. Maiden (never played a premium but I suspect I would like it a lot.

Pro:
1. Maiden - in a runaway so much fun to flip
2. Godzilla - would be number one, but I know what I am missing and it hurts too much not to have the mechs.
3. Avengers - Same I really like it I just hate that it’s not a premium.
4. JP - still not speaking to me, at all.

Best of both categories going head to head.
Maiden Pro beating out Godzilla Premium due to the higher price.

"How people grew up playing pins" is a VERY wide range of possibilities that I'm amazed by. Opens up a ton of doors for other gameplay issues.

I'm Born in 75 I grew up in 80s arcades; Popular bright family places.
If you're born in 75 maybe you had to go to bars to play pins. And now you want a dark game room because of that.

large range of diff'rent scenarios

My main point of that comment was referring to those who can’t stand or tolerate some music of a pin, most of the time when first playing pins on location other music or background noise overpowered the game anyway and your not able to hear the sounds of the game. Most of the music pins made I enjoy the bands some more than others but can still enjoy the game. It’s like I hate most movies and superhero films for sure but can handle or play the game if fun. I meant do others not play there own pins with music on in the background and sound volume lower on game, that’s solves the issue of not liking the music but hard to be it’s not tolerable for Maiden, if you like rock and roll and heavy metal most would like or enjoy Maiden and not hate the music.

As of current code:

1. Maiden (and I don't like the theme)
2. Godzilla (has more shots you can purposefully hit and often be rewarded with a drain)
3. JP (least favorite repeatable loop shot of the three)

I haven't played AIQ enough to appropriately rate it

1. GZ - never liked the theme, but playing it on route, was ridiculously fun, and I'm not great but it made me feel like I was!
2. IM - got this for my wife as she enjoyed on route. The music has grown on me.
3. AIQ - I like the shots. Call outs are lame, but our family is into Marvel
4. JP - has it's moments, but I can't get into it enough to make me want to keep playing it.

Of the last 2, I am probably going to get AIQ in the near future...

1. JP - A perfect symphony of difficulty, shots, variation, rules, mood. Possibly greatest pin ever, especially in Prem/LE guise. The so called "lack of" assets never bothered me, I added the movie code which brings extra immersion and improves it, however the original is perfectly fine. My only bolted pin.
2. IM - Old school pinball on modern steroids. High energy, non stop, relatively simple ruleset, but badass music, even better callouts and shots that feel so good. I'm surprised I like this so much.
3. GZ - Haven't spent enough time on it, but may well be the best of the lot. Happy to let time be the test, but looks amazing.
4. AIQ - Distant 4th. Endless combos on AIQ which initially are fun, but becomes strangely boring and soulless. Rules are ambiguous, call outs are atrocious. I'll always throw some money into it on site, but would never consider home ownership.

Nitpick, but there aren't multiple ways to feed the left flipper, only the Black Widow ramp does it, unless you're counting a return from Cap down the left orbit. It just feels like multiple ways because Widow is so easy to shoot so often.

I experienced those boring combos on AIQ also, and then got past it. They factor in significantly to the high end of strategy - you always want more portal locks, and the Binary ramp multiplier on the premium is key for blowing up scores into multiple billions.

And we've been over this before in this thread - what's ambiguous about the rules? Spin disc, start quest, shoot flashing shots. The gem powers are a little complicated, but I understood them fine in ten minutes of reading a rulesheet.

I've had AIQ a couple months and now I pretty much understand the rules.

So yeah, some people can "get it" after 10 minutes and "reading a rulesheet," but for most, I would recommend buying one and playing it hundreds of times as the best way to kind of start to really understand the rules.

it's just that simple!

For me it's going to be JP.
Of all his games, this one really checks all the boxes once you get the shots down. There is always something to shoot for, and I'm always finding different ways to combo. Even though I'm still not great, it has that one more game addiction more than any of his others for me and it's the only game that's given me that feeling since BSD. Once you add in the movie code, and tweak the game to shoot how you like the game is damn near perfect and will always provide a challenge, numerous ways to approach scoring high, multiple game modes, great code and longevity. These are the main reasons I decided to own the game.

Now, I'm not going to say his other games are bad in any way and don't have much of what I mentioned above, it's just how I feel. One thing I can say, when it comes to IM and GZ (haven't had enough time on AIQ), while they are both fun shooters - I've had that feeling where you're doing really well, and almost just wanting to step away, not finishing up the game - not that you're bored but just that you've had enough and for me that "usually" means I won't want it for the home.

In spite of all of this, the guy makes awesome games and unique fun layouts and I can't wait to see what's next.

this is one of my favorite threads right now because my next pin, whenever that is, is definitely going to be by Keith. I wish there was a way to do a weighted poll to get a definitive answer since opinions seem pretty split. Though I guess if we go by the Pinside 100 winner is GZ with JP a close second and IM a close third.

Great thread. My personal ratings follow the Pinside 100.

#1 GZ - best pin ever made IMHO. Fantastic theme, shots, layout, unique toys, and balance. Flows like no other. Shot combos upon combos. My only complaint is the damn Heat Ray. Pressing that button for an extended push has caused me more ball drains… I know, that’s by design. Brilliant, really. If I could only keep a single pin, this is it. The only pin I’ve rated a perfect 10. My extended review has many more comments on this title.

#2 JP - utter masterpiece. More deliberate than GZ, and requires more exacting shots and strategy. Not quite as approachable as GZ, but once you learn the rules, highly addictive. The paddock modes are fun chasing the moving shots, and the wizard modes are really unique and different than the mainline game play. Movie code really completes the package. I get more frustrated with JP than the others, but that’s ok. The tower, control room, and helipad shots are just tough. My reflexes aren’t as young as they used to be; this one takes lots of practice. When I first got JP, it was a clunkfest. I didn’t get it at all. I almost traded it away. Glad I stuck with it. All that said, I now love it.

#3 IM - Amazing layout and theme integration. Was not a fan of the music, more my own ignorance than anything. I grew up on 70s rock, and the music in this pin fits right in with my tastes. Less complex rules than GZ or JP, but has that “just one more” vibe that’s fairly rare in tables. I love the art package on the Premium; I’m a sucker for the Egyptian theme (also loved Stargate for this reason).

#4 AIQ. The only one I don’t currently own. It looks amazing, and the ramps are enticing. I still don’t have enough time on this machine to really rate it. My first impressions were a bit of the opposite of JP; it was pretty easy and you just shot lots of ramps and try to get power gems or whatever. Some of my respected pinhead friends recommend this one, so I’m sure it will join my lineup eventually.
978CAD55-4BD7-42BD-8A07-0D6EB661B5CE (resized).jpeg

From a total gameplay package point of view:
1. Jurassic Park
2. Godzilla
3. Avengers Infinity Quest
4. Iron Maiden

From a playfield point of view only factoring aspects Elwin personally made (the layout)

1. Avengers Infinity Quest
2. Jurassic Park
3. Godzilla
4. Iron Maiden

I will now accept your lifetime ban.

I’m with you man, not a fan of Maiden. I know we’re in the minority.

Godzilla
Jurassic Park
Avengers
Maiden

That is the best part about pinball. There is someone in this thread that has said "XXX hands down his best"... for all 4 games. And I understand that for every one of them. When it comes to opinions on which is the best pinball we will never get a definitive answer. It just doesn't exist. I guess we could say Keith makes awesome games and go with that.

Ok just now played Avengers and JP for the first time. From my limited time on all his pins I would rank them as:

Avengers
Godzilla
Maiden
JP

All this talk of Avengers being hard with those wide ass ramp entrances? Every shot is easy. Just talking shots and flow. Haven't played any of these enough to make a decision on code.

The “hands down” argument always gets me.

It’s like…well…the hands are down?! I guess that’s settled then!

I just calculated the results, some guys didn't vote on all the games just said Maiden was best (or something other) so what I did was give the best 4 points and the other games 2 points. I did this calculation as voted 1-2-3-4 giving them points as 4-3-2-1 meaning last place gets 1 point.

There were 47 people who replied. I did a big back of the envelope calculation so it's possible I could have made a mistake but this is the best of my calculation. I also counted up the last place votes just to see if that also lines up. I added up all the points and divided by 47...

Here are the results

GZ 3.0 average (3 last place votes)
JP 2.5 average (5 last place votes)
Maiden 2.4 average (11 last place votes)
AIQ 2.0 average (20 last place votes)

My observations. JP and Maiden were very close a fraction separated and both getting 11 first place votes but Maiden lost out because it got more last place votes. GZ stood out with (17) 1st place votes and many more 2nd place votes so it dominated the points.

AIQ
-I was totally expecting AIQ to get the most last place votes. I think it's a great pin but to me the layout was my least favorite (wall of ramps and I didn't like the wide ramp too much), the rules are great for me but a lot of people might not love the rules. Some people dislike the art or the call outs.

Maiden
-I was expecting this to do well but think some people might have got tired of this because it's the oldest and sometimes people prefer the newer pin. Also some people hate the music and might have marked it down accordingly.

JP
-I was surprised to see it get many 3rd or 4th best, but it did win second place fair and square over Maiden both the higher average and less last place votes.

GZ
-I think the newness helps it out, at this moment it's the highest rated game on Pinside and it got significantly more first and second place votes as shown by the point total.

The votes pretty much follow the top100 ranking with JP and Maiden fairly close in 2nd/3rd place.

You sure did! Well written. Thanks for summing it all up.

Hard to imagine music is hated more than a movie when comparing games, what a shame. I love most music 70’s, 80’s and heavy metal and rock n roll and just shocked those who hate Maiden music and can’t tolerate what bands they actually like, my guess trendy shit. Oh well

The hands are down and its not even close....the hands aren't even slightly coming up.

Resurrecting this thread given another year of collective playing experience, the addition of Elwin's James Bond 60th, and I'm curious for additional thoughts/insights re: AIQ (which I've never played yet) as it has piqued my interest recently.

FWIW, of the three Elwin games I've played, I like IMDN best, GDZ second and JP third. I own the first two, but JP's theme/artwork/vibe have always left me feeling a bit meh towards it.

Godzilla is still overall my favorite package of Elwin’s. The playfield art is my biggest issue and I don’t even really mind it that much. Callouts, shots, modes, and cities are all awesome and the sound track is perfect.

Jurassic Park is solid overall, have tried not to play it too much on location as I knew I would get one eventually. I will have a better feel for it soon as I just picked one up.

Avenger’s IQ is fun but feels kind of dull, callouts are meh. The Audio/Video integration isn’t that enticing. Modes are good, shots are great. This version of the theme for me is just not right.

Iron Maiden is a blast to shoot, challenging when setup steep. Music fits well enough, call outs are great, and the modes feel fulfilling.

Bond 60th is up there as one on the best single level playfields I’ve played. It’s been tempting me since I first played it. Theme isn’t terribly important on it and I’d honestly have preferred an unlicensed theme for it but it feels so good to shoot, who cares.

Honestly, they are all great. I’ll drop some coin on location for any of them.

My list would probably be:
Godzilla
Bond 60th
Iron Maiden
Jurassic Park
Avenger’s Infinity Quest

Updated rankings because it's Friday afternoon and what else am I gonna do, work?

1 - JP
2 - GZ
3 - Maiden
4 - Bond 60th
5 - AIQ

Hoping to add one more to the list, later this year? Early next year?

lol - I feel you.

And ... AIQ not off to an auspicious updated ranking per initial responses.

Iron Maiden is the best Keith Elwin pinball and the best game Stern has ever made.

It's a damn fine one for sure...what a layout.

1 - GZ
2 - Maiden
3 - AIQ
4 - JP

haven't played Bond

I haven't played Bond 60th, but what I think is great about Elwin's games is that they are all so good that depending on anyone's subjective opinions on elements of each game (e.g. theme, the toys, the flow of the shots, etc) they could list them in any order and it wouldn't surprise me. There is no right or wrong answers here in my opinion!
Having said that, my current preference is:
1 - JP
2 - GZ
3 - Maiden
4 - AIQ.
GZ, Maiden and AIQ are all interchangeable for me depending on my mood on any day. JP comes out on top because of theme and also when I'm dialed in and combo-ing like crazy, it makes me feel like a sharp shooter (which I am not)

JP - no contest. It’s sterns best game ever and I personally fixed the lack of assets - it bothered me that much.

As a 60th owner I really think that game is his second best followed very closely if not tied with GZ but I like the 007 theme much better.

if I was someone reading this I wouldn’t believe me either so I get it but GD that flow on the 60th - so smooth and satisfying

Imdn > GZ

Damn straight!

Er ...

No offense to GDZ. Helluva game!

Hot take: Jurassic Park Home Pin is funner than the standard version……

Color me "Curious Yellow"*. How so?

* I Am Curious (Yellow) https://g.co/kgs/vrdYJt

For me personally I lean:
1. Maiden
2. Godzilla
3. JP
4. AIQ

My observations from friends and family (all pretty casual) playing my games:

Everyone that plays at my house generally loves Godzilla, so that’s probably the most successful as an accessible pin for everyone.

I was surprised that most people give up on JP pretty quickly. The quick trex multiball is a cool experience but overall the shots are just too hard for casual players and game times are quick.

Maiden is the easiest to understand what’s going on and though the ramp shots can be difficult, there’s enough easier shots to progress in the game and most people are able to play a few modes and get a trooper multiball. For some reason my wife, loves this game most out of my other Elwin’s

I don’t own AIQ but will probably pick one up someday. I’ve played it quite a bit and haven’t fallen in love with it. It’s my least favorite layout and I’m not a fan of code (yet).

Alien on the way out ,JP30 on the way in .Maybe I’ll trade FF for a AIQ then I’ll give you a honest assessment I kept saying to myself “I can’t have just All Elwin games” .Now I’m like “Why the F not ?”

IMG_7153 (resized).jpeg

AIQ's lustre is losing its dazzle for me and JP's overall vibe still gives me a tepid meh feeling.

Iron Maiden though ... still one of my all-time Stern, as well my, #1 Elwin favorite!

Horrible, good choice.

There's A LOT of Elwin layout in FF...think he helped on that one.

AIQ if fucking awesome.

I play it all the time when on location .It might be his best layout

The new code update for JP puts it in the lead over Godzilla. Every single mode is now worth playing and fun. I think on JP people are so focused on the paddocks that they forget about the modes. There are 5 Trex modes and 5 control room modes if you count secure control room and museum mayhem as one of the modes, which I do. even if there wasn’t a map and Dino’s and paddocks that’s as many or more modes than a lot of games have. Add in the DNA combos, the new trifectas, Pteranodon attack, raptor, chaos and king of the island multiball, visitors center, escape nublar and when dinosaurs ruled the earth, man this game has so much going on!!!!
I watched Karl’s stream the other day where he tours the park, amazing! I’ve had my game for over 2 years, played it over a thousand times and watching Karl play for over an hour wasn’t boring in the least bit, he is sooooo good it’s crazy! Probably the coolest stream I’ve ever seen and I have watched all of his wizard mode series streams.

If you're really interested in AIQ, I have a clean AIQ Prem for sale not too far from you. PM me if interested, it's in the marketplace.

LOL, I have the entire Elwin lineup, minus Bond. All lined up next to each other to boot.

Sorry for the thread sidebar.

To each their own, but as a former JP owner I think you’re gonna end up regretting that.

It really is.

God, anything over Alien is an upgrade

I’m going to keep FFs through 1.0 then will decide ,but I really like it at .96 .I’ll never part with a game until it’s 100% complete .It doesn’t make sense to me how people ditch games in early code .If you don’t like a game early seems to me it will only get better .Thank you for the offer and glwts .

Bond 60th? Thats the most boring overpriced game i ever played.

1. JP
2. GZ
3. AIQ
4. IM

Had to ask!

With JP getting the 30th treatment and another code update we can be pretty sure that the same thing will happen with Godzilla. A 70th anniversary edition or whatever will come out with another code update.

Good news for me when people go “upgrade” their premium.

Next Fall is the 40th for Powerslave so mabey some goodies then.?

I just got Iron Maiden premium a few months back so I have Maiden and JP premium and Godzilla LE.

I am still on the debate about if I like Godzilla or JP best.

Today my rating is

GZ
JP
Maiden

AIQ

Bond60 (have not played).