You can ignore the gem powers and play AIQ just fine. Other than the gem powers, it's perfectly simple, spin the disc to light a mode, get a portal lock to make it a multiball, shoot the lit shots to win it, stack it into other multiballs the same as every other game. And collect Avengers just like in Monster Bash for a sequence of wizard modes.

Even the gem powers are reasonably intuitive. Power Gem = powers up that avenger. Reality = score multiplier. Time = add time. Soul = jackpot after another quest. Space = move gems. Mind = free hits. The only complicated part is how Mind Gem changes with leveling up that avenger. I'm convinced people are just panicking at that one piece of complexity and throwing out the entire game with it.

None of this shit is even remotely intuitive, and I've had the game for a month. If you can answer any of the following questions in plain, easy to understand English, I'd genuinely appreciate it!:

WHy do I want to power up an avenger? What's the benefit? Are some avengers better to power up than others? What powers do I get? What's the point of "leveling up" avengers anyway (beyond getting to the Soul Gem and other modes), with or without a gem? Who the fuck knows!

Why would I want to move or "recharge" a gem? Do gems lose power? If I place "reality gem" on a shot, is it multiplied for the rest of the game? The ball? Or just 4 shots? How does placing reality gem on the drop targets "make grid completions easier?" WHo the fuck knows?!

Why do I want "free hits" with Mind Gem and where do I put them so they are actually useful? Am I supposed to save it for Soul Gem mode? There doesn't seem to be much benefit for "free hits" on most shots during game play. It's pretty clear Elwin hates the action button, it's use always seems like a total afterthought in his games.

Some of the super scoring modes are huge - super spinner, Super Guantlet, super targets, etc. How do I start them, or choose which one to start? Doesn't seem to say anywhere in the game. Why does Binary hurry up just seem to start every now and then?

Your first paragraph is correct - start modes, bring in multiballs, like every other game. But there's way more to this game and the game really seems to go out of its way to not explain any of it to you. And yes, I've read the tiltforums rulesheet on it, but it just felt like being punched in the face.

AIQ's rules seem impossible to understand, and also impossible to explain. I'm enjoying it, and getting the hang of the rules, but it's taking longer than any other game I can think of. Maiden and JP, I had the knack on those after a dozen plays. Godzilla seems pretty easy to grip as well.

This. The code is so effing awesome and not hard to understand at all. Very intuitive. Different? Yes of course. Confusing? Not hardly.

Like you said, feel free to treat it like monster bash and turn your brain off to all the cool extras.

The problem with this the "just turn off your brain and play it" plan is that you get the same score every time. It seems like you REALLY need to know the ins and outs of this game like a Stern employee to blow it up beyond the usual 150-300 million.

I found the first couple weeks with this game extremely frustrating, to the point that I tried to trade it. I'm sure others have given up quicker. Some of this shit is finally sinking in and my current high score is 650 million, but I'm still at a loss of how folks are putting up over a bill on this thing.

I almost gave up. Glad I didn’t. It took about 50 plays for it to finally click with me, which basically took a weekend of nonstop play. I am freaking loving this game now.

As to where to put gems; it’s up to you. For example; speaking only of the reality gem - it creates a shot multiplier for the shot you put the gem on. So If you’ve learned or understand the captain marvel binary rules you could put the gem there and boost the multiplier even more. Or put it on Black Panther and give his shot, which is also the combo jackpot shot, a multiplier. Or put it on hulk so you multiply the gamma ray. Now, if you were to put it on the drops, it’ll make collecting computer grid items easier. however, you’ll notice the gem has a number on it in the LCD when it’s on the drops; this represents how many collects you get the power up for, when it goes to 0, that gem is no longer affecting the drops so it’s wise to move it when you can so it’s powered up again. See, easy…

In fairness, I was being a bit if a mfer.

Agree. I was only saying "you can play it like monster bash," to satiate those that don't wanna learn the rules, and you'd still have a blast.

I dig the rules for AIQ. But to me it’s the layout with a wall of ramps and I actually dislike the wide ramp that’s too easy to hit. It’s like the center shot on Mando just too wide for me and I don’t enjoy looping that ramp as much. I still want to play it some more before I make up my mind. Still a great flipping game tho.

PS most people seem to have LE or premium AIQ, do you like the subway?

Just played Iron Maiden and Godzilla today for the 1st time. Both were fun. Neither was the greatest pin ever (or even close). Fun shots. Once I figured out the rules I'm sure they would be more fun. For theme Iron Maiden is my preference. But I liked how Godzilla shot better.

This isn't remotely close to true. The way you blow up AIQ is to get to the wizard modes. Battle Royale, Battle Thanos, Super Victory Laps, Computer Frenzy, and Trophy Mania each score 200-400 million and total 2+ billion all together. If you don't reach them, you'll top out at a few hundred million from a handful of quests and regular multiballs, no matter what you do with any gems.

Have you tried reading the screen? The game displays it each and every time you level up an avenger.

Hulk level 1: double Hulk Rampage scores.
Iron Man level 1: double Arc Reactor scores.
Captain America level 1: double Shield Bonus.
Black Widow level 1: Thor inlane helper (2x progress for hitting Thor after the left inlane).
Thor level 1: Super Slings.
Black Panther level 1: Longer combo timers.

Level 2 avengers all double all scoring at their shot, except Iron Man, he doubles all of Iron Man Multiball.

Free hits help you complete anything that you use them for. It's up to you strategically whether you want to do it on Soul Gem, or another gem quest, or something else like say Iron Man jackpots or Binary hurryups.

The Super modes are awards from completing a line on the computer grid. It's the first info screen, hold a flipper for three seconds and you'll see what's on which line. (And they don't score all that much, 20 million is a good run on any.)

The game tells you, on the screen, each and every time you hit the Captain Marvel shot, how many more shots (premium) / spins (pro) for the next Binary hurryup.

Thanks dude!

This is actually awesome. I’ve read rules and watch tutorials and still can’t figure out what to do. Saying it’s like Monster Bash makes so much sense to me. Next time I play I’m saying fuck the gems and just going for hitting character shots.

Ok so drop targets start Super Modes. That's the way I like to distill things.

20 Million seems like a lot to me on this game. Makes sense to toss some balls at drops during multiball or whenever to get modes running in background. I also don't find the drops to be very dangerous to shoot at.

Will read the rest tomorrow!

Godzilla is best by a mile!!!

Re: Mind gem-

But does the mind gem kill any shot on the playfield? Or just the one that the gem sits on?

If binary is on center ramp, but mind gem is on the drops, is there any point in using it?

So depending on the level of avenger. Collected, you can action button the shot the gem it's at if it's blinking for an objective. Level 1 you get 3 action button uses for any lit shot on the field. And max level is only one button use, but collects all active lit shots. So depending on which quest/mode you're in, you want it in one or the other. Like the most common use is lvl1 on soul gem. Use it on the three more difficult ones (except the last tower one). If you have it max level there, it's a waste.

Mind Gem depends on the level of the Avenger it's on.

Uncollected: 1 use on THAT shot.
Collected: 2 uses on THAT shot.
Level 1: 3 uses on ANY lit shot on the playfield (the game will pick which it thinks is the most valuable.)
Level 2: 1 use on ALL lit shots on the playfield at once.

On Captain Marvel (who doesn't get collected/leveled), you get 2 uses. (Scoring the Binary hurryup with this is a good move.)

On the drop targets (also doesn't get collected/leveled), you get 2 uses. In normal play, it doesn't count as hitting the drops, it halts the cycling lit award. (This isn't very useful; don't waste your mind gem on this.) I think the only times Mind Gem can count as hitting the drops are during the Time Gem or Soul Gem quests, maybe also Computer Frenzy.

Oddly, it doesn't seem that a level 1 mind gem is allowed to collect the Binary hurryup; it only works if the Mind Gem is on the Captain Marvel shot itself. (Mind Gem on the drops can't ever help with a Binary hurryup.)

There is some weirdness when the avenger it's on changes levels; if you drain while it's at level 1, you retain your 3 uses, but the functionality drops to "collected" (only that shot) along with the avenger's status.

When the uses run out, it must be recharged, by moving it with the Space Gem or by hitting Change Gems. (The latter doesn't actually have to change it, you can put it back on the same shot it was already on.)

The major way to blow up AIQ Premium other than the wizard modes is the Binary hurryups. Each time you complete it (hit both shots), it permanently raises a multiplier for all scoring at the Captain Marvel ramp, to a max of 5x. This is how you collect a huge Soul Gem Jackpot of 200M-plus. Or put the Reality Gem here for another doubler for 10x; with that, the Binary hurryups themselves can top 200M. The biggest base scores to multiply at the Captain Marvel ramp occur during Battle Royale, Super Victory Laps, and Hard Mode Soul Gem; each can get multiplied to 50 or 100 million or more.

(Sorry for the topic drift, I just realized this is the Elwin thread not the AIQ thread)

It's nice to have portal locks, gem quests, and Ant-man result in serving the ball to the flipper. And the open portal is an easier shot to hit to start a quest than the right ramp. The walker mechanism in the subway really doesn't matter for anything; it would make no difference for gameplay if it were just a straight pass-through channel and the portal locks were virtual.

Really the Captain Marvel ramp is a bigger feature of the Premium; it adds so much flowability; the subway only does a little bit.

Godzilla is Keith’s best game. And honestly it’s his best by a large margin for me. That’s because the playfield is awesome, the theme integration is perfect, music is right on target, and the rules are fun.

I really liked AIQ, but it fell apart quickly for me. The rules aren’t fun. The complexity of them didn’t add to the fun, it took it away. And every time I failed to get a stone, the way the game took it away irritated me. And then later it would take away stones I had already earned! Those things just took away any satisfaction of playing it for me. I just didn’t want to play it anymore.

I am able to understand Maiden being a great game. However it never clicked for me. I’d play it, but I was never emotionally involved in the game. Personally I like the Pro better than the upper versions. But I never wanted to get one.

Jurassic Park… I liked it when it was released, but it ended up leaving me cold as well. For me, games go through a process as I learn them. I blindly shoot it to see what I see. Then I’ll play for a bit to see what rules I can figure out on my own. Then I’ll read some tips and play more. Finally I’ll read the rules. I was never intrigued enough to get to that last step with JP.

Those are just my opinions on them. GZ by a mile.

That's a bingo. Felt to me like Keith and/or Raymond were worried about the game being too easy for Karl, so they added Thanos Repo or whatever that mode is called where you have to slog through keeping everything you just earned. Zero fun. It's hard enough for me to beat multiple modes in the first place.

I keep hearing that people hate the Thanos mode but I don't really see why. It's EXTREMELY lucrative, in a way that few modes are in that game up till that point. And it's not particularly difficult.

Yeah you can lose a stone but don't really care...I do care about the 100 million + I can get by shooting some lit shots.

And, it's one of the few modes that, the first time I get it, I knew exactly what I was supposed to do thanks to extremely concise, simple, yet easy to follow explanation on the screen.

Losing your *ball* during Thanos Attacks is the bigger penalty and why I hate it. The problem is you can't do anything to reduce that risk. You can't stack a multiball or get add-a-balls to reactivate a ball saver, Mystery doesn't help like it does for the soul gem, you can't get Super Ball Saver from the computer grid or anything else. Mind Gem does work, but it gives a max of 3 shots out of the 14 that you need to defend three gems. 14 shots needed is roughly twice as long as an average gem quest, for roughly twice the scoring reward, but much more than twice the risk without any multiball stackability.

(You might want to move this discussion to the AIQ thread, this isn't about comparing Elwin's games.)

Guess to finish up the convo (maybe) about Thanos attacks mode, think if its a big hangup in the penalty, I do believe theres a setting to not lose Gems when you drain/fail. Least makes it bearable till everything else becomes a breeze.

Makes perfect sense from a competitive/scoring standpoint. Definitely has that going for it. 90% of the time I play a modern game it's single-player, for mode progress as much or more than score. In that regard I see it as a speedbump at best, and a huge backtrack at worst. Lose a gem AND a ball? No thanks.

Different strokes though, can't argue with your reasons for liking it.

I dig that you can lose and gain gems through these side modes. It’s like F you Thanos, you took a gem. I actually snicker if it happens and I’m like, I’ll just come back and F you in the arse harder with even more combos and power - just like the movies! It’s fun, call him a piece of shit for what he is then show him who’s boss. It adds diversity to the game so it’s not so static and linear.

Btw; playing last night. Lost the reality gem due to draining during the quest. Then I got the mind gem and soul gem. Did Thanos attacks > 2 gems to protect, roughly 6-8 shots (mind gem helped a lot), beat Thanos and was awarded the reality gem that he took from me earlier in the game. Sweet!

Yeah, Thanos Attacks with 2 gems isn't so bad. It's 9 shots total, where you can likely get 3-4 during the ball saver and another 2-3 with the mind gem if you have it, so there's only 2-4 shots worth of real risk.

Thanos Attacks with 3 gems is a significantly worse proposition. It's 14 shots total, and the helpers don't scale up, so now it's 5-7 shots of real risk.

This is terrible design: you shouldn't be penalized with twice the risk by *successfully* having another gem!

I don't mind Thanos Attacks losing a gem - it's totally in line with a comic-book back-and-forth fight - but the risk profile of the pinballing is all wrong.

So tired of people saying no to Iron Maiden music, it’s great for the game as all the older stuff by the band. The newer albums after Brave New World not really much for me. If you are a heavy metal and rock and roll fan I have a hard time believing you not a Maiden fan at all or a little and hate the music that much. I guess most are trendy alternative or nu metal fans that complain. My only complaint is it’s shoots great, ton of different shots, extremely fun to play, great scoring (not low like recent other Sterns) and good call outs, buttttttt wait it has not enough in it and missing toys (etc like what Metallica has in it or Rush) or many toys and too much middle shot with Boring center ramp up and down and underneath, game should have shot through back of game and Eddie heads lock three balls, yes still want it one day but wanted more in this game no matter the cost. Also, I preached for this game to be made many years ago so go find my original thread topic and knew it would be a hit.

This is the thing about Pinball. It’s also the thing about life. Different people have different tastes. I like both Rock, and Heavy Metal, and I’m not a Maiden fan at all. I’m also not a fan of the game. However, I do recognize that it’s a great game, just not one I’d want to own.

What game has the best code?

Which is the best Keith pro version?

Wow hard to believe if you like most of the old school classics metal and rock, I mean it’s not a Korn pin which would have been horrible as that is crap music. Just curious your give me a few of your favorite bands in these categories

Has anyone done custom sound mods for Avengers? I love the rules and layout but the sound package is so dull.

Maybe the next one?

I appreciate what he does but I like games that are fun to shoot and that is first on the list. I guess I am more old school than I think I am.

His games to date feel like work to me, if he can get some of those new ideas into a game that is more fun to play I'd be in.

I know its 2022 and "more is more" is whats going on so its more rules, more ramps, more shit on the playfield etc etc

Tons of shit going on doesn't always mean more fun, rarely actually.

Man, I so very disgree. I find his games wildly fun to shoot. What games do you enjoy that fit those perimeters? Like afm?

There's one with Immigrant Song for Thor MB, Shoot to Thrill for Iron Man MB, and movie score music for everything else. The multiball songs make a big difference to me in fun factor, actually feels like something cool is happening. Voice callouts are the same I think. It also has a bunch of movie clips on the screen, but I don't care about that.

1. Godzilla. Best thing Stern has ever put out and a top 10 game all time already even without finished code. Entire A+ package all around with no major flaws. A masterpiece. A jacked up modern day Attack from Mars.
2. Jurassic Park: Great overall game. Art could be better. No assets from movies. Game times a bit long. But such a great shooter, with innovative shots and rules. A 100% classic game.
3. Maiden: Super cool pin that shoots amazing. Great art. Would love it more if I did not dislike Iron Maiden. Don't love the style of the display art.
4. Avengers: Super unique shots and so weird to play. Love that about this. Super confusing rules maybe match the geeky theme. Not as approachable to shoot, play or understand as the others. Probably best superhero game of all time for the home for the comic book geeks though. Still a great game.

Elwin is a wizard.

well I spent a few hours at On Tilt in SFV this weekend and played the heck out of all Elwin's games including IM for the first time. He certainly is a genius and, IMHO, the heir to Steve Ritchie in that there is so much flow and fun orbits in his tables. I gotta say I am not an Iron Maiden fan (musically) but that is an awesome pin. I learned about how it was an Archer homebrew table first (and watched video of the original); what a great story! But the big surprise for me was getting hooked on AIQ, seems it gets the least love of his four tables because maybe the rules are unforgiving, but it's a damn fun table. I played an hour straight and only managed to get one infinity stone! :-/ Anyhow's JP is still the hands down funnest and probably easiest, Godzilla has everything, AIQ is great but only for comic fans, and IM is great, but only for metal heads. And KE is now my second favorite designer (after SR) and Imma start saving my clams to buy any one of his tables (but probably no IM because I just couldn't have that in my house). Would love a re-skin of IM into something less handbanging!

Me too. Though I might be getting close to bringing it in anyway. I’ve bought quite a few games over the years that I didn’t like the theme, but loved the play. I think Iron Maiden is getting to that point for me.

Own AIQ and not interested in comic strips & loved IMDN but hate the music

Exactly.

The real secret is that as far as metal goes, maiden is pretty “light” if you ask me. It’s more prog rock than head banging metal.

This isn’t really a popular opinion in the metal community, but I happen to think it’s mostly the name, the logo, and of course Eddie that’s doing all the “heavy” work for Iron Maiden. The music itself is really
Pretty lightweight and should be pretty palatable for non metal civilians like yourself!

Consider yourself lucky it ain’t sabbath or Priest!

Now that I have a lot of time on AIQ, I consider it his best. Best flow, best shooter, best rules - it’s all about the breadth!

I am a newbie, can some of you better informed Pinners give me some background on Mr.Elwin. I got in corrected when I called him Mr.Erwin so I really have no idea how he rose to the top? Did he apprentice under anyone? Just a pinhead who switched careers?

I love my JP and GZ but just could not even identify like one IM song and I love Rock and Roll. My AC/DC is so awesome cranked up on Long Way to the Top, Shoot to Thrill, Money Talks, Dirty Deeds!

I would love a Maiden converted to Sabbath or Ozzy so bad!!!

He's a nice guy and respected by many. Worked for an operator. Been in tournaments many years. Great player. And now a very gifted and talented pinball designer working for Stern.

LTG : )

Maiden hands down

Godzilla
Iron Maiden
Avengers
Jurrasic park

I'm pretty new to the whole owning a pinball machine, but Maiden is my favorite. My wife and I were at the Vegas Hall of Fame, she thought Maiden was the most fun! I then told her we have one at home....go figure.

Iron Maiden wins hands down .

Maiden great music, great band but wish more in the game besides just shots, back of game should have shot through the middle into Eddie head or temple but still a very fun fast pin, just not sure if for a one pin collection. Is Iron Maiden better then New Elvira’s pin? As far as those who complain about the music must likely trendy alternative crap. Also wish the music pins hand a version of the songs without the words to mix it up and live versions.

I didn't like it much my first year of owning it, I couldn't get past the callouts. But now that I'm actually spending some time on it, I've done a complete 180 and love it. The multiple ways to feed both flippers is nice, especially mixed with the fact on my machine I can't post pass from left to right, and going for Trophy Mania is insane.