(Topic ID: 315823)

Best Keith Elwin pinball?

By Antoshka

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    Keith has made 4 machines already and they are all fun( some of them are flat out amazing)

    Which one do you like best??

    My Keith Elwin list right now is..

    1 Godzilla ( Best Stern since AC DC)!!
    2 Jurassic Park ( lots of fun stuff) Great theme, layout, rules
    3 Iron Maiden ( Not as fun as JP, but still pretty amazing)
    4 Avengers Infinity Quest ( sadly, his worst game)! I like it a lot, but it is so complicated, that I am sometimes wondering if it could be less complicated?

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    #2 2 years ago

    I'm shocked how people don't like Avengers or consider it his worst game. The shot layout is absurdly cool.

    #3 2 years ago

    I think this is a pretty standard list. However I personally give JP the edge over Godzilla. However, ranking these and choosing these is kind of like ranking Victoria's Secret swimsuit model. They are all beautiful.

    I would also like to state that all of them shoot beautifully. I think that Avengers takes a hit on the art and code as it is too complicated for many, excepting the folks that will inevitably object to my comment.

    #4 2 years ago

    Tops for me is Avengers, it’s incredibly rewarding because of the difficulty. The shots feel incredible. And it is by far the best theme (I’m a huge marvel fan).

    2nd Godzilla. I recently got my premium and it is absolutely fantastic… it may surpass Avengers soon. The code is brilliant… no matter who is playing, or what shot is being hit, you are always making progress. And I am amazed at how even the scoring seems to be.

    3rd is Jurassic Park. I would own this game if my best friend didn’t have it… and I still may get it. I can not stand the cabinet art, but it’s an incredible game. Especially with the movie code.

    4th is Iron Maiden. But this pin is also fantastic. I love the layout. I’ll admit this is the game I’ve played the least of his 4.

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    #5 2 years ago

    there's more "Best Elwin pinball" lists than there are Elwin pinballs.

    14
    #6 2 years ago

    1 - AVENGERS INFINITY QUEST: For me, this machine is pure kinetic therapy under glass. The shots are incredible and never-ending. It’s a game that old-school player can walk up to and disregard the code to just start shooting every ramp a bazillion times in succession and follow the lights, or someone can gradually learn all 25 pages of the most complex and rewarding code ever written for a pinball machine. The weaknesses are very obvious, which are the lame 2D artwork and the call-outs; but since the machine is based on the cartoon rather than the Marvel Cinematic Universe I can look past that as an expectation coming from movie content that isn’t included. The only non-Elwin Stern that comes close to AIQ is LOTR, which was my previous long-time favorite game. Now that honor belongs to AIQ.

    2 - GODZILLA: This is one of the best-ever implementations of a theme, and is the pinnacle of being a world under glass. Objectively, this may be the best pinball machine design of all time, including being better than AIQ. But my personal subjective preference for AIQ trumps it on this list. The details are endless, and the creativity of every aspect of the game is unparalleled. I don’t like comparing modern Sterns and classic Williams/Ballys, but this is the Twilight Zone of this era (which isn’t a direct comparison, but a tribute and parallel of accomplishment). If ever there was a “Goldilocks” pinball machine that’s “just right”, this is it. Like all Elwin’s games, the shots are various versions of butter. And every part of the mechanics and code draws you into the game deeper and deeper. It’s hard to believe anyone wouldn’t love this game.

    3 - JURASSIC PARK: Until AIQ and GODZILLA displaced it this was Elwin’s best, and among the best of any pin ever. The initial plunger shot is an epic foretelling of the rest of what’s to come, which is a purety of shots and code that are magic from start to finish and through every element of the game. The primary downside is visual with disappointing artwork and only Newman as a JP character. But the rest of the licensure usage is so amazing that it’s easy to just ignore the walk-up aesthetics. It took world-beaters like AIQ and GODZILLA to displace JP on the list, and many wouldn’t agree that it’s been demoted. My preference for ramps that always feed a flipper is what keeps this in 3rd place besides being clearly edged out by the two newer machines. These three should come as a set.

    4 - IRON MAIDEN: Admittedly, I’ve just never gotten along with this game. It’s absolutely gorgeous and the music integration is astounding. It’s obviously a perfectly implemented theme with great code. The shots are each rewarding and enagaging, so I can objectively see that this could be in any of the 4 slots on this list by a cross-section of players. But like Metallica, I just can’t vibe with it and they both absolutely kick my arse after hundreds and hundreds of plays. We just don’t get along. I don’t like the ramp going to “nowhere”, but I’m told it’s because I suck at playing the game. That’s likely true. Maybe it’s all because I just don’t vibe with music pins and don’t like them all that much. Whatever it is that keeps me in the minority opinion on this game, it’s still objectively one of the few best shooters of all time.

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from VMAX:

    1 - AVENGERS INFINITY QUEST: For me, this machine is pure kinetic therapy under glass. The shots are incredible and never-ending. It’s a game that old-school player can walk up to and disregard the code to just start shooting every ramp a bazillion times in succession and follow the lights, or someone can gradually learn all 25 pages of the most complex and rewarding code ever written for a pinball machine. The weaknesses are very obvious, which are the lame 2D artwork and the call-outs; but since the machine is based on the cartoon rather than the Marvel Cinematic Universe I can look past that as an expectation coming from movie content that isn’t included. The only non-Elwin Stern that comes close to AIQ is LOTR, which was my previous long-time favorite game. Now that honor belongs to AIQ.
    2 - GODZILLA: This is one of the best-ever implementations of a theme, and is the pinnacle of being a world under glass. Objectively, this may be the best pinball machine design of all time, including being better than AIQ. But my personal subjective preference for AIQ trumps it on this list. The details are endless, and the creativity of every aspect of the game is unparalleled. I don’t like comparing modern Sterns and classic Williams/Ballys, but this is the Twilight Zone of this era (which isn’t a direct comparison, but a tribute and parallel of accomplishment). If ever there was a “Goldilocks” pinball machine that’s “just right”, this is it. Like all Elwin’s games, the shots are various versions of butter. And every part of the mechanics and code draws you into the game deeper and deeper. It’s hard to believe anyone wouldn’t love this game.
    3 - JURASSIC PARK: Until AIQ and GODZILLA displaced it this was Elwin’s best, and among the best of any pin ever. The initial plunger shot is an epic foretelling of the rest of what’s to come, which is a purety of shots and code that are magic from start to finish and through every element of the game. The primary downside is visual with disappointing artwork and only Newman as a JP character. But the rest of the licensure usage is so amazing that it’s easy to just ignore the walk-up aesthetics. It took world-beaters like AIQ and GODZILLA to displace JP on the list, and many wouldn’t agree that it’s been demoted. My preference for ramps that always feed a flipper is what keeps this in 3rd place besides being clearly edged out by the two newer machines. These three should come as a set.
    4 - IRON MAIDEN: Admittedly, I’ve just never gotten along with this game. It’s absolutely gorgeous and the music integration is astounding. It’s obviously a perfectly implemented theme with great code. The shots are each rewarding and enagaging, so I can objectively see that this could be in any of the 4 slots on this list by a cross-section of players. But like Metallica, I just can’t vibe with it and they both absolutely kick my arse after hundreds and hundreds of plays. We just don’t get along. I don’t like the ramp going to “nowhere”, but I’m told it’s because I suck at playing the game. That’s likely true. Maybe it’s all because I just don’t vibe with music pins and don’t like them all that much. Whatever it is that keeps me in the minority opinion on this game, it’s still objectively one of the few best shooters of all time.

    Boy, I'm going to have to give AIQ some time now. Great write up

    #8 2 years ago

    Trick question- they’re all freakin incredible

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Boy, I'm going to have to give AIQ some time now. Great write up

    Man, agreed. I've avoided it mostly because I've been so hooked on Godzilla and Maiden, partially because the layout and rules didn't immediately grab me. Might need to get some games in this afternoon...

    18
    #10 2 years ago

    1. Maiden: best flow with straightforward yet deep code and incredible theme integration. Not a music pin but a mumy zombie time travel theme with a maiden soundtrack. Best call outs. If you are a maiden fan this is basically the goat game.

    3. Jurassic park. It’s just such a meticulously designed game. The layout and rule set fit together perfectly. Best toy in pinball history. Best third flipper shot in pinball history. Theme integration and callouts are a B-, but quality is there.

    4. Godzilla. Pure fun with awesome toys and great use of assets. Always feels like something is going on. Code is a little all over the place but not confusing, it just doesn’t feel like the game was designed around the code like JP. Not using the avengers gauntlet ramp on the right makes no sense, you should be able to hit that ramp from the upper flipper.

    5. AIQ. Great layout and a fun game to shoot. The code is not hard to understand at the surface level but there is a level of complexity with placing gems and shit that is beyond anything I care to try and figure out. The theme integration is very boring.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    1. Maiden: best flow with straightforward yet deep code and incredible theme integration. Best call outs. If you are a maiden fan this is basically the goat game.
    3. Jurassic park. It’s just such a meticulously designed game. The layout and rule set fit together perfectly. Best toy in pinball history. Best third flipper shot in pinball history. Theme integration and callouts are a B-, but quality is there.
    4. Godzilla. Pure fun with awesome toys and great use of assets. Always feels like something is going on. Code is a little all over the place but not confusing, it just doesn’t feel like the game was designed around the code like JP. Not using the avengers gauntlet ramp on the right makes no sense, you should be able to hit that ramp from the upper flipper.
    5. AIQ. Great layout and a fun game to shoot. The code is not hard to understand at the surface level but there is a level of complexity with placing gems and shit that is beyond anything I care to try and figure out. The theme integration is very boring.

    Pretty good summary.

    The games are all good. Maiden is probably my favorite. AIQ may have best layout.

    Hot take: Least favorite layout is Godzilla. I know it's a great game but it's all steep drainy ramps and steep drainy loops, which doesn't really suit my style of play as I miss too much and drain. I find it can be a little frustrating for me.

    10
    #12 2 years ago

    *lines up all of my dogs*
    "OK who is a good boy and who is THE GOODEST BOY???"

    #13 2 years ago

    I agree with list from first post except I’d say

    1a)Godzilla
    1b)JP
    3) Maiden

    4) Avengers

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    1. Maiden: best flow with straightforward yet deep code and incredible theme integration. Not a music pin but a mumy zombie time travel theme with a maiden soundtrack. Best call outs. If you are a maiden fan this is basically the goat game.
    3. Jurassic park. It’s just such a meticulously designed game. The layout and rule set fit together perfectly. Best toy in pinball history. Best third flipper shot in pinball history. Theme integration and callouts are a B-, but quality is there.
    4. Godzilla. Pure fun with awesome toys and great use of assets. Always feels like something is going on. Code is a little all over the place but not confusing, it just doesn’t feel like the game was designed around the code like JP. Not using the avengers gauntlet ramp on the right makes no sense, you should be able to hit that ramp from the upper flipper.
    5. AIQ. Great layout and a fun game to shoot. The code is not hard to understand at the surface level but there is a level of complexity with placing gems and shit that is beyond anything I care to try and figure out. The theme integration is very boring.

    I’m the odd man out since I don’t really care for the all flipper Gauntlet ramp at all (period) that ramp upper flipper shot I don’t care for it one bit so I’m glad it’s not in Godzilla.

    13
    #15 2 years ago

    I think Maiden may be the best, although I'll put another vote in for AIQ being best layout.
    Also, this "AIQ is too complicated" shit has got to die a fucking horrible death. This isn't calculus, how long would you have to study to learn the complexities of it; 1 day? Or are everyone's heads still reeling from the 6 hours it took to learn SW?
    But I digress....

    1. IMDN
    2. AIQ
    3. Godzilla
    4. JP - I had the pro and it never really clicked with me. I found the paddock rewards/rpg-ish elements kind of a miss. Didn;t feel like like it made much of a diff'rence...sort of the same thing with Zilla leveling up. Also the pro paddock is kind of shitty.

    #16 2 years ago

    1. AIQ
    2. IMDN
    3. JP (my wife's favorite pin)
    4. Many pins I enjoy playing far more due to theme and difficulty but that's getting off topic.

    5.Godzilla (I know I know people will think I am crazy. Its a fun pin but I think its his easiest pin and the theme does nothing for me.)

    I have owned all buy IMDN, but rented it for awhile if it was any other band I would own it. AIQ and JP stayed in my collection. Godzilla got the boot after a few months. There is nothing complicated about AIQ, but it can be complicated as you want. People just get hung up on where do I place the gems?

    #17 2 years ago

    1. Maiden.

    2. Godzilla - but I do think GZ is a better design with better rules, but theme/music knock it to number 2.

    3. JP.

    4. AIQ. Sound package is not for me.

    #18 2 years ago

    I think AIQ may be the best of his layouts, but, in my opinion, it’s not his best pin overall due to the code. I owed an AIQ and I do believe the code is a bit of a mess. However, if you are talking layout only, I think AIQ may be his best.

    #19 2 years ago

    1. IMDN
    2. Godzilla
    3. JP
    4. AIQ

    All are really good games.
    This is my ranking today, Godzilla may move downward over time.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I think Maiden may be the best, although I'll put another vote in for AIQ being best layout.
    Also, this "AIQ is too complicated" shit has got to die a fucking horrible death. This isn't calculus, how long would you have to study to learn the complexities of it; 1 day? Or are everyone's heads still reeling from the 6 hours it took to learn SW?
    But I digress....
    1. IMDN
    2. AIQ
    3. Godzilla
    4. JP - I had the pro and it never really clicked with me. I found the paddock rewards/rpg-ish elements kind of a miss. Didn;t feel like like it made much of a diff'rence...sort of the same thing with Zilla leveling up. Also the pro paddock is kind of shitty.

    To me it’s not so much that it’s hard to understand. The basics of the code are very easy to grasp. It’s the using of the gems that requires a lot of memorizing and thinking to be able to use. You’ve got like 5 gems that can all be placed on 6 different avengers giving you a bunch of different combinations for things that just boost your score.

    #21 2 years ago

    all 4 are fun, great shots. cant go wrong with any of them IMO (even if u don't like maiden music like me, the game is just great!).

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from silver_spinner:

    all 4 are fun, great shots. cant go wrong with any of them IMO (even if u don't like maiden music like me, the game is just great!).

    The day I found the menu setting to turn music down & callouts up was a great day indeed

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    The day I found the menu setting to turn music down & callouts up was a great day indeed

    There's a thread on Pinside with new code (different songs).

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    There's a thread on Pinside with new code (different songs).

    Yeah this was a long time ago....and since Pinside is obsessed with CockRock it would probably be even worse metal Personally not much into juke box pins.

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I think Maiden may be the best, although I'll put another vote in for AIQ being best layout.
    Also, this "AIQ is too complicated" shit has got to die a fucking horrible death. This isn't calculus, how long would you have to study to learn the complexities of it; 1 day? Or are everyone's heads still reeling from the 6 hours it took to learn SW?
    But I digress....
    1. IMDN
    2. AIQ
    3. Godzilla
    4. JP - I had the pro and it never really clicked with me. I found the paddock rewards/rpg-ish elements kind of a miss. Didn;t feel like like it made much of a diff'rence...sort of the same thing with Zilla leveling up. Also the pro paddock is kind of shitty.

    Agree 100% on the "AIQ code is so difficult" banter. It's actually very simple to understand. You collect all the Avengers 3 times and collect all 6 gems. That is all you need to get to the final wizard mode. The whole placing the gems on shots is just fluff and not needed to get thru the game. Neither is the computer awards. Those are just extra fun things to do but not needed. I love AIQ and it is Elwins best shooter for sure. Love that game.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Doctor6:

    I'm shocked how people don't like Avengers or consider it his worst game. The shot layout is absurdly cool.

    I agree

    #27 2 years ago

    For me:
    1. Zilla .. awesome surprising fun. Lots of great shots
    2. IM..incredible flow, great modes, not a fan of the band though
    3. JP..good flow, not as good as IM. Not a fan of some things visually or audio wise..'Lets get Nedry on the phone!'...no, that's ok
    4. AIQ... I think if you are a major Marvel COMIC BOOK fan, this may be your dream game. Just not for me, but that's ok.

    Looking forward to seeing all his games down the road.

    #28 2 years ago

    1. IMDN: still my favorite. Layout, rules, light show, and the moments are all a 10.

    2. JP: T-Rex is probably the coolest toy in all of pinball. I love this game for the T-Rex and how it’s used in all the modes; especially deeper into the game. Otherwise, I’m not a huge fan of this game. The mini wizard modes and wizard modes are fantastic, but getting to them is like pushing a truck through mud - so much effort and not very fun. This will probably drop down my Elwin list once I get more time on GZ and AIQ.

    3. AIQ: I’ve only played it for about an hour on initial release and its release code. It shot awesome but felt boring (release code). Now that it’s complete, I plan to pick one up. Hopefully sooner than later so I can get a better opinion on all this complicated code talk.

    4. GZ: I’ve only just played this game a few times (yesterday in fact) and I don’t understand all the hype. It didn’t feel that great to shoot compared to his others (better than JP though). But, it probably has to do with me not knowing the rules and that expectations are set so high going in, there was no way to please my first impression lol. In short, I need more time on it.

    #29 2 years ago

    1. Godzilla
    2. Maiden
    3. JP
    4. AIQ

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    4. GZ: I’ve only just played this game a few times (yesterday in fact) and I don’t understand all the hype. ...

    I think it grabs people right away becasue it's such a unique layout.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Also, this "AIQ is too complicated" shit has got to die a fucking horrible death. This isn't calculus, how long would you have to study to learn the complexities of it; 1 day? Or are everyone's heads still reeling from the 6 hours it took to learn SW?

    I don't want to learn math chess.

    20
    #32 2 years ago

    "We need the deepest rulesets for these games at home, with as many Wizard modes as possible. We need code, code, code, and depth and breadth! So you'll never get sick of the game at home!" - Everybody

    "Why do you have to be a rocket science to figure out some of these rules on these new games?! I don't wanna go to math class!!! Where's the fun in that?!" - Also Everybody

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    I don't want to learn math chess.

    I think sterns SW and GOT are 2 of the best rulesets ever. If AIQ is anything like those, then sign me up!

    #34 2 years ago

    1. JP - My favorite rule-set of all of KME's games. I love the Paddock dynamic and the way your shots move around with the dinosaur you are trying to capture. The T-Rex modes are also well implemented and make use of the moving T-Rex head which is really cool. I also like that there are so many state-changing toys in the game. The Truck changes which shots you need to make in Chaos MB and also makes for a really tight but satisfying Smart Missile shot. The Raptor Pen is also a great toy and allows you to lock a ball inside for 2X multiplier (dirty pool!), Even the control room shot on the left side is a state changing toy as it turns itself into a captive ball during Invalid frenzy. And the game has great spinner rules with Pteranadon, really fun mini-wizard modes and of course Escape Nublar which can be played as its own challenge, also perks, rescues, and plenty of other depth that provides an everlasting challenge. The negatives for JP are that the shots are tight, the game is rather difficult, and the game isn't really accessible to all players because of this difficulty. If I am having an off pinball day I will tend to avoid playing JP because you have to be up for the challenge. Also, the theme integration is quite good if you add the fan created software vs. the stock code. I have a Premium in my collection and it is bolted to the floor.-and I'm one that tends to sell games after a couple of years.

    2. Godzilla - The game has 3 spinners and flow for days! Lots of depth and modes, a unique and fun layout to shoot with a well implemented single pop bumper which has good risk/reward. The humor, sounds, display and light show on this game are all on point! The game is just really good at everything it does. It is also way more accessible for players of all levels to play and has some of the coolest toys/mechs in pinball. To me the game reminds me of a modern version of Attack from Mars as it shares the same brand of humor, has a large toy up the middle and even has saucer multiball. Negatives for Godzilla is just that the software isn't as cohesive as JP. There is almost too much going on at times and display scenes and sounds can get queued up because stuff gets stacked against each other. I do realize that code is not complete and there are still modes that need to be put into the game and additional polish and improvements. I think when all is said and done I could see it battling JP as my favorite. It's just a fun game! I have a Pro in my collection and can't see it ever leaving.

    3. Iron Maiden - It's a great game that I owned for almost 2 years. Ultimately I grew a little tired of the music as I'm not much of an IM music fan. It's a really fun shooter much like Godzilla and feels more approachable than JP. The animations and light show aren't up to the level of Godzilla or JP but it is also an older game. The code doesn't also feel as deep and doesn't seem to have as many layers or ways to approach the game as JP and Godzilla have. I found that a lot of my games started to feel kind of the same when I had it. It only has a handful of modes that you see all of the time. The Power features just kind of come naturally through gameplay and I kind of felt that I hit a wall after owning it where I'd see the same stuff most games like Cyborg MB and I wasn't seeing much new as I tended to approach it the same way. Contrast that to a game like JP where there seems to be more ways to attack the game and one game I may go primarily for Paddocks, and the next try for T-Rex or Control room modes. I do really like the game but I feel like I don't need to own one since Godzilla does a lot of the same things Maiden does for me but better. Better theme, better humor, more going on, better lights sounds and video, etc.

    4. AIQ - This is the only one I haven't owned. I play it quite a bit on route and was really hoping it would click for me but it hasn't yet. I love the layout and think it's a fun shooter but the theme integration falls flat for me. I don't really care for the display stuff or the sounds and the gem rules/grid. It's just not as fun and interesting to me as something like the Paddocks in JP or destroying stuff in Godzilla. It just feels like it is lacking in soul and immersiveness. It's a solid game and I think it's still a good game but I just don't the same feeling when I play it that I do with the other 3 KME games. Maybe someday I'll pick one up for home and grow to really like it.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    I think sterns SW and GOT are 2 of the best rulesets ever. If AIQ is anything like those, then sign me up!

    Maybe I'm numb to it since I own a GoT, but I've never found the rules to be anywhere near as "deep" or complex as people have said. Once you understand what the bonus for each house is, which is (mostly) given to you on the DMD when you select the house, it's basically light the mode and shoot the lit shots. Beat 4 or 7 modes to get to the wizard modes...even the directions for the mode with the starting animations are very clear and direct IMO. There are the multiballs and mode stacking, but I don't really see that as "new". There's some other smaller features going on, but nothing really integral to the main scoring strategies and nothing you even really need to pay close attention to.

    When I've played AIQ I've never felt like the rules were that complex, but more that it does a really shit job of communicating to you why anything is important and what it does. Modes earn gems...ok...how do I use them and when? Place the gem on a shot...ok...why? What's the difference between the shots and then what...do I recollect it? Do I smash the button to use it? I lost a gem...ok...is that bad? How bad? Can I get it again...do I need to?

    After reading a rulesheet it makes sense, but unless you "research" it's very poorly communicated to the player what to do and why any of it matters...I feel the same way about Wonka and GnR...once you read up on them it's not that crazy, but if you're just standing there it's a mess of lights and nonsense.

    #36 2 years ago

    I enjoy my JP more than my GZ for the shots and the rule progression. GZ get very complicated with what town you are in and who you are fighting when. The Paddocks at least keep you moving forward. After a few games of each, I tend to gravitate back to Medieval Madness or something more mode based. On route I really like IM, just can’t get into AIQ.

    #37 2 years ago

    1a. JP
    1b. GDZ
    1c. AIQ

    Ask me tomorrow and I'd probably give you a different ranking. I absolutely love all 3 of these games and it's my dream to own all of them.

    2. IM

    Still a great game and I like the band somewhat, but there's just something about rock band pins I don't like. Probably listening to the same songs over and over. IM (and ACDC) are great games but I wouldn't want them in the home environment personally.

    #38 2 years ago

    AIQ seems to be the most polarizing in the bunch. Either #1 or #4 in lists. It has some stigma that it's impossible to learn, and that's bogus. If you're posting on a pinball forum, you know how to play a mode-based Stern - light a mode, start a mode, beat the mode. Anyone here should be able to walk up to AIQ and get some progression on that alone.

    Where it shines (especially in a home environment) is the nuance in the countless ways to take the game to the next level. The gems are power ups given for completing modes. Your next shot on an Avenger after completing a mode places the gem on that Avenger. Based on how well that Avenger is levelled up gives you varying degrees of the gem's power up. There. That's 90% of AIQ's rules simplified into a few sentences.

    I still revisit the game and try new ways to approach it. Many swear by the Mind Gem --> Soul Gem approach (where the Mind Gem gives you "Boom buttons" and you use it on Soul Gem's Hard Mode for 10x scoring), but I can't get there consistently. Therefore I have a default approach for tournies right now but love revisiting the game and trying out new things. PERFECT game for a small home collection! You just got to learn that the flippers don't change the inlanes, there's a vertical magnet, and the disc can potentially block a shot you need.

    Only thing I'd change in AIQ is the audio. All the "I am... (insert Avenger)" callouts can F right off. We know who you are. Someone once said "the callouts are for kids on location" and I'd counter that it's hard to hear callouts on many location games and there should be more variety for home buyers. Rest of the game though is amazing.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Therefore I have a default approach for tournies right now

    Want to share?

    I usually try to get the Time gem and then just scrap from there

    #40 2 years ago

    1. IMDN - For me this one is the perfect blend of flow, rules and integration. I like the music in general, but far from a big fan. I've owned this one for a couple of years and it keeps drawing me back.

    2. GZ - This layout has so many unique ball paths. I think the light show is fantastic. Modes and rules are great and only getting better. My only minor gripe is that you start each game exactly the same way - ramps, then fight in Tokyo. It opens up wide after that.

    3. JP - I have only played this maybe three times on location, but have a NIB arriving this week. I already know I will enjoy it more than AIQ.

    4. AIQ - To be fair, I have only played this maybe 50ish times but it is clear #4. The theme integration and callouts bore me to tears. As mentioned elsewhere, this game just feels soulless in gameplay. I was surprised to find how much these aspects mattered to me. Such a shame as it shoots like a dream. It would be great if it could be rethemed.

    #41 2 years ago

    the more i think about it, the more i can't rank them. they are all so good in their own way. i own them all btw.
    GZ is funny. Maiden rocks. JP is an adventure. AIQ is a deep battle. they all shoot well. most importantly, for me, is that they are all deep enough code wise that i will never become bored. i will likely never see the end of them either! kind of like questing for Valinor. the important thing is that i can get deep enough in all these games that I believe i will make it to the end.... but i never quite do.... Go Keith Go. I will buy all your games. they are fun to shoot and challenge my mind.

    #42 2 years ago

    This needs a poll

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    AIQ seems to be the most polarizing in the bunch. Either #1 or #4 in lists. It has some stigma that it's impossible to learn, and that's bogus. If you're posting on a pinball forum, you know how to play a mode-based Stern - light a mode, start a mode, beat the mode. Anyone here should be able to walk up to AIQ and get some progression on that alone.
    Where it shines (especially in a home environment) is the nuance in the countless ways to take the game to the next level. The gems are power ups given for completing modes. Your next shot on an Avenger after completing a mode places the gem on that Avenger. Based on how well that Avenger is levelled up gives you varying degrees of the gem's power up. There. That's 90% of AIQ's rules simplified into a few sentences.
    I still revisit the game and try new ways to approach it. Many swear by the Mind Gem --> Soul Gem approach (where the Mind Gem gives you "Boom buttons" and you use it on Soul Gem's Hard Mode for 10x scoring), but I can't get there consistently. Therefore I have a default approach for tournies right now but love revisiting the game and trying out new things. PERFECT game for a small home collection! You just got to learn that the flippers don't change the inlanes, there's a vertical magnet, and the disc can potentially block a shot you need.
    Only thing I'd change in AIQ is the audio. All the "I am... (insert Avenger)" callouts can F right off. We know who you are. Someone once said "the callouts are for kids on location" and I'd counter that it's hard to hear callouts on many location games and there should be more variety for home buyers. Rest of the game though is amazing.

    The basics of the code are very easy to understand. Hit the shots to qualify the avengers and unlock soul gem. Play all the modes to advance through the game. Lock portal locks to go into modes with multiball.

    The rest of the stuff you described is way too complicated for most and something only a few players can appreciate/enjoy.

    The other thing that bothered me about the code was how underpowered the two main multi balls felt. I am sure I probably wasn’t doing the trigonometry required to make those modes worth something.

    #44 2 years ago

    Godzilla!!!!!!

    #45 2 years ago

    What is Elwin's best? His next one. I love all his games. For me regardless of theme, his next game is always the most anticipated one for me.

    #46 2 years ago

    I'd also be willing to bet his best game hasn't been made yet.

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from calprog:

    Godzilla!!!!!!

    For me, it's a 4-way tie for #1!

    1) AIQ - master class layout and ruleset. The alternate sound package is a must for an enhanced experience.

    1) GZ - fantastic immersive theme that just keeps getting better with each release.

    1) JP - if you haven't played one with the movie asset code, you are really missing out - it literally completes the game. Also the best toy (tied with MM in all of pinball).

    1) IMDN - the game that started the era of Elwin. Incredibly fun approachable layout - although my least favorite simply because I don't dig the music.

    Simply put - Elwin is the only designer in pinball where I will buy his next game regardless of theme.

    #48 2 years ago

    I'd rank them...

    1- JP - A fantastic game, but it can be brutal.

    2- Godzilla - Fun, but chaotic.

    3- AIQ - probably my favorite layout. I don't enjoy the subway. I think the code is a mess. I think that if Lyman had coded the game, and borrowed from his Batman 66 code.. this might have been the greatest game ever. If you took the AIQ layout with the theme integration and rules of Batman 66 - wow.

    4 - Maiden - fun game, but I just can't stand the band.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    I don't want to learn math chess.

    Haha...i remember that one.

    #50 2 years ago

    Elwin games make me think too hard!

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