(Topic ID: 197380)

Best Gottlieb sys. 1. Joker Poker or Countdown


By Frippertron

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 59 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by tktlwyr
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Best System 1 game”

  • Joker Poker 26 votes
    54%
  • Countdown 9 votes
    19%
  • Genie 6 votes
    13%
  • Sinbad 3 votes
    6%
  • Buck Rogers 0 votes
  • Totem 1 vote
    2%
  • Hulk 3 votes
    6%
  • Spiderman 0 votes
  • Other 0 votes

(48 votes)

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There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

I vote joker poker

#2 2 years ago

Joker Poker is good. But have you played Buck Rogers? Really nice layout with rules that are definitely deeper than anything that came before it. I'm biased since I own it, but I think the game utilizes the vari target in the best way.

#3 2 years ago

Buck Rogers is a good game too. It might be a little misunderstood by a lot of people, but for my money I'll take Joker Poker.

#4 2 years ago

What about Genie? Or Sinbad? Or Hulk?

Hulk has gotten 40% more plays than any other game I've brought to shows, including WPC games.

#5 2 years ago

Out of those 3 Genie is my favorite. Forlorn did come out with some great early SS games, they just seem to get overshadowed by Bally unfortunately

#6 2 years ago

Gottlieb not forlorn

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Hulk has gotten 40% more plays than any other game I've brought to shows, including WPC games.

Interesting data you've collected, Mr. Flow. I love oddball data like that. Do you run play counts on all the games you bring to shows? It'd be interesting to see historical trends of what's popular at the different venues.

#8 2 years ago

Shhhh! We don't want everyone to know how great system 1's are! Don't we have a secret rule to never promote system 1's?

If we start talking about them like this, those Bally/Williams folks will find out and then the prices will go up!

Let's be safe and stick with the script:

"System 1's are terrible! Mine broke! It's really hard! Blah blah power supply blah blah connectors, blah blah relay blah blah Ed Krynski" etc...

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Interesting data you've collected, Mr. Flow. I love oddball data like that. Do you run play counts on all the games you bring to shows? It'd be interesting to see historical trends of what's popular at the different venues.

Yep, I had it at Pinfest, Pintastic, and the Saratoga Pinball Show. It was outplayed at each show by a surprising margin compared to the other games I brought, and compared to the numbers that other people shared from their games. There were always people on it, and several times I saw 2 and 4-way games happening. I don't know what it is about that game that made it such a magnet for players.

#10 2 years ago

You're right quinn. Sys. 1 games are awful. Those ground mods never work and they play like a clunky mess.

#11 2 years ago

Both great games but Count-Down for me.

#12 2 years ago

I have both, but i would vote for Genie!

I would say they are both great games in their own right. Both have heaps of drop targets. I call a tie!

#13 2 years ago

I know the EM version of JP is the more collectable, but is it true the SS is a better player?

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Hulk has gotten 40% more plays than any other game I've brought to shows, including WPC games.

For total transparency, you should let people know that Rescue 911 was one of the other games.

#16 2 years ago

SS JP, which gets my vote, has a multiplier for completing the card banks. It makes it important to focus on the appropriate one each ball and rewards a good shooter.

Don't think the EM version has the multiplier.

#17 2 years ago

Of the two options I go for Joker Poker. Thanks to forceflow I have a liking to Hulk (2018 wish list)
-Mike

#18 2 years ago

I was wondering if it is considered sacrilegious to replace the plastic spinners in games like Genie or Sinbad with a metallic one like on Robo War?

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I was wondering if it is considered sacrilegious to replace the plastic spinners in games like Genie or Sinbad with a metallic one like on Robo War?

You will find that the robo war design to be much heavier than the plastic of Genie. Now I'm curious and will check to see what happens with spinning characteristics.
-Mike

#20 2 years ago

I have a JP, I have played a countdown. I prefer JP. When I bought it, I had never heard of it, but the price was right. I also have played and like Genie.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Capinball:

For total transparency, you should let people know that Rescue 911 was one of the other games.

Interestingly enough, R911 actually came in second for most amount of plays--it seemed to be another popular game. The other games I had numbers for:

TS, DM, RBION, Flash, Star Wars Pro, Sopranos, and Mustang.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I was wondering if it is considered sacrilegious to replace the plastic spinners in games like Genie or Sinbad with a metallic one like on Robo War?

Yes. A metal spinner would look very odd and out of place in these games. Plus, you would loose the artwork that is normally seen on them.

#23 2 years ago

Or maybe a classic stern style spinner. I just thought it would be fun to play these games with a real dialed spinner. It would be interesting at least. I don't mean to offend the purists, just spitballing.

#24 2 years ago

I vote Sinbad SS, it gets played more than any of my other machines, then JP. I would not own them both, the game mechanic too similar.

#25 2 years ago

I owned a Countdown for 5 years and sold to a friend who had it for 10 years. He sold it back to me 2 years ago and it staying in my collection this time.

I like the wide open flow of the game better than JP and is so much fun to play because of that. The ball never stops moving or ever gets slowed down or hung up on anything on the playfield. My Countdown reminds of my Gottlieb High Hand and Drop a Card a little but with tons of more speed with the DC voltage power.

Don't get me wrong...I would love to have a JP, but my choice these days is Countdown.

#26 2 years ago

I would have never thought Countdown and High Hand were so similar. Good eye Vic. Both fantastic games.

#27 2 years ago

I never played Spiderman before and just checked it out, watched the PAPA gameplay video. I saw a lot of alley passing to build bonus. Does this exploit ruin the game? It has a really cool layout?

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

but is it true the SS is a better player?

The only difference is the fact that the SS version has a 5x bonus multiplier, and the EM version has a double bonus multiplier to keep the scores down to fit on the reels. Otherwise, they're the same. DC coils and all.

If I recall correctly, the only EM conversion of a system 1 game that is identical to the SS counterpart is Cleopatra.

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I never played Spiderman before and just checked it out, watched the PAPA gameplay video. I saw a lot of alley passing to build bonus. Does this exploit ruin the game? It has a really cool layout?

Keep in mind, it's a system 80 game, not a system 1 game.

#30 2 years ago

Oops. Thanks force made a mistake. I'll take it off the poll.

#31 2 years ago

I don't know how to change the poll. My bad. just disregard it.

#32 2 years ago

Shut up!! Both games suck! Shhhh dont mention them here ever again, System 1 are horrible... replacement boards are $400..

Count-Down is such a good game... but dont tell anyone..

PS Spiderman isnt a System 1 - a lot of people think it is.. but it is not

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I never played Spiderman before and just checked it out, watched the PAPA gameplay video. I saw a lot of alley passing to build bonus. Does this exploit ruin the game? It has a really cool layout?

Spiderman isnt a system 1

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I was wondering if it is considered sacrilegious to replace the plastic spinners in games like Genie or Sinbad with a metallic one like on Robo War?

I'm in the middle of a Sinbad restoration and am looking at different options to upgrade/mod the playfield. I might test this out.

On a related note, any ideas on what other parts are somewhat compatible with Gottlieb System 1's? E.g flippers, pop bumper caps..?

Sorry, guess I'm taking this thread off topic....

Also..."System 1's are giant boat anchors! You can never find spider chips! The connectors are rotted!"*

*Secret Sys1 Owner/Collectors code words.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

On a related note, any ideas on what other parts are somewhat compatible with Gottlieb System 1's? E.g flippers, pop bumper caps..?

I'm not sure what you're asking. You can buy parts for Gottlieb system 1 games. The main source for Gottlieb parts is PBResource.com

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I was wondering if it is considered sacrilegious to replace the plastic spinners in games like Genie or Sinbad with a metallic one like on Robo War?

I could be wrong but I don't think the original System 1 MPU is fast enough to even catch faster spins than the plastic spinner can deliver.

I wonder if the after market MPU boards process switch closures faster or not?

What parts compatibility are you wanting to know? Much of the mechanical hardware was totally redesigned by Gottlieb engineers PRIOR to the SS games being made (Flipper assy, pop bumper mounts, lock down bar etc.). And all the same mechanical parts were used to build either type of game other than the electronics vs relay logic.

Overall, it wasn't until Premier entered the picture that some assemblies were again redesigned to make things easier to manufacturer thereby lowering the price of the assemblies (ie Drop Target Assys).

#37 2 years ago

There should be a "Top 100 Rating" for Game Themes or Cab/BG/PF Art.

My age is showing, but I love these late 70's games. While the rating system based on game play is appropriate, I'd also like to see a rating system based just on art/design. Honestly, there are some amazing modern games that I would never want in my home.

I would suspect that JP would be in the Top 10, if not Top 5. Perfect colors, fun design, and one of Gordon Morrison's best.

I like the look of Countdown, but it seems to me that the astronauts head is out of proportion.

#38 2 years ago

Joker Poker, with Buck Rogers coming as a close second. If there wasn't a 12" gap between the flippers on Genie, it would destroy the competition....

-1
#39 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I'm not sure what you're asking. You can buy parts for Gottlieb system 1 games. The main source for Gottlieb parts is PBResource.com

The range of options for replacing Sys 1 playfield parts seems fairly limited compared to bally/williams from what I've found. Flippers for example: White only - although there are some black ones (for Black Hole I think?). OTOH, Williams/Bally have all sorts of color options.
Yes, there are a lot of Gottlieb pop bumper caps, but none seem to allow the use of the new LED rings (especially the reactive ones) as those seem to be designed for Bally/Williams 'screw down' bumper caps (again - a lot more options for those games in terms of colors, styles, etc..).

Obviously, I'm not sticking to an exact reproduction. What I want to do is to try and convert some of the white posts, flippers, pop bumper caps to a color scheme more in line with the rest of the cabinet/playfield. Gottlieb didn't really have any other materials other than white as far as I can tell. The bright oranges, blueds, pinks, and greens on all these System 1 games just seem to cry out for some updated colors (IMO - as another mentioned, not trying to offend purists, but "Sinbad Purists" is an oxymoron! )

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I could be wrong but I don't think the original System 1 MPU is fast enough to even catch faster spins than the plastic spinner can deliver.
I wonder if the after market MPU boards process switch closures faster or not?
What parts compatibility are you wanting to know? Much of the mechanical hardware was totally redesigned by Gottlieb engineers PRIOR to the SS games being made (Flipper assy, pop bumper mounts, lock down bar etc.). And all the same mechanical parts were used to build either type of game other than the electronics vs relay logic.
Overall, it wasn't until Premier entered the picture that some assemblies were again redesigned to make things easier to manufacturer thereby lowering the price of the assemblies (ie Drop Target Assys).

Thanks Cactus! That's actually what I am discovering. I admit, its part of the 'charm' about System 1 too, but when you just want something as basic as a yellow flipper instead of white (not the 'yellowed nicotine white' that mine are now! LOL) there are no choices apparantly.

#41 2 years ago

BTW, this is fun thread. Pinside seems to have two clear personalities (although a lot of folks cross over): the "new pinball" Stern/JJP/Twilight Zone to presnt crowd, and the other group that goes back to the late EM stage. Its all fun, but I enjoy these old pin threads a lot.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

although there are some black ones (for Black Hole I think?).

I've only ever seen white flippers. BH does get modded a lot, so it's likely that if you saw back flippers, it was a modification of some sort.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Yes, there are a lot of Gottlieb pop bumper caps, but none seem to allow the use of the new LED rings (especially the reactive ones) as those seem to be designed for Bally/Williams 'screw down' bumper caps (again - a lot more options for those games in terms of colors, styles, etc..).

That's because those mods are designed for Bally/Williams, not Gottlieb. More popular games will simply have more mods available. Older games simply don't have many mods available because they are less popular and owners generally don't like modding them too much anyway.

You still do have a number of options for LED bulbs you can use in the pop bumpers.

If you really want to get into modding, you're probably going to have to get newer games.

#44 2 years ago

Remember, there are other threads about dyeing white nylon. So, you could buy new flipper caps and then change the color to your liking.

For playfield posts, I am pretty sure you can get the "faceted" posts in other translucent colors if that is your desire. Data East used many different colors.

Later, Premier did create an alternate pop bumper cap that would still fit on the patented Gottlieb bumper body. And there were even some alternate body colors used. Of course, you can technically swap out all of the plastic parts for other manufacturers. The only piece that is uniquely different is the length of the Rod and Ring rods due to how Gottlieb started using a pop bumper metal mounting plate below the playfield instead of screwing the parts down with wood screws. Another way that Gottlieb games were often "over engineered". The bumper base, and skirts (other than Gottliebs skirts having that little point at the top to prevent a ball from settling on the top of the skirt) all have the same exact hole mounting pattern to them so parts are interchangeable.

#45 2 years ago

I originally thought Countdown would get boring because you always have to hit the drops in the same sequence but it held up surprisingly well. Partly because of that awesome double super jackpot bonus collect saucer.

#46 2 years ago

Seeing a lot of love for Joker Poker. It's great that people still keep these great games alive. I'm only in my mid thirties and I prefer late Em and early solid state era to today's lavish sensory overload machines. It seems modern games are becoming to much like video games with their storylines and missions and "depth". I guess I just prefer a more pure pinball experience. You can keep your dots, call out's, and LCD screen. Just give me a ball, couple of flippers and a great layout and I'm in my happy place. If I want lord of the rings I'll watch the movie and I'll probably be done with the movie while you're still on ball 2.

#47 2 years ago

Had to vote for Genie if i had second vote it would go to Count-Down I had one and played it to much it be came call your drop target and try to clear 4 at a time when you can. After adding Pascals mpu board 1.8 million was the high bar for me. Countdown looks so simple but then you Get handed. After 19 years it went to a new home and i got Black Hole but ended up with Genie later. I have been able to play the em Joker Poker EM many times and didn't quite see the appeal. Got many of games in on Charlie's Angels back in the day. Have had some Sinbad playtime and just don't feel it seemed to simple.

#48 2 years ago

Cp. Genie is a classic. It's one of the only pins that actually feel like 2 games in one and for what they go for, a steal. Sorry you didn't care for Joker Poker. Many have said the SS plays a lot better than the EM. I only have played the SS so I can't compare. All I know is the SS has a 5X multiplier and the EM has 2X

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Many have said the SS plays a lot better than the EM. I only have played the SS so I can't compare. All I know is the SS has a 5X multiplier and the EM has 2X

What I don't like about JP EM is that the targets don't reset when completed so you're left to just shoot rubber if having a good ball. In th the SS version the target banks reset when you complete and the target value increases as well (10 & Jacks both have to be completed before reset as they are on the same mech).

Watch this video

#50 2 years ago

Gottlieb System 1 spinners are not meant to twirl like the metal spinners, they are only supposed to turn once or twice for advancing bonus or other features not for racking up spinner points like the bally or Williams spinners. If you change them out you're changing the play dynamic for which it was designed. I like them the way they are and I like the metal ones for what they are designed for. Totally different animals... And for that matter I'm not sure the software would keep up with them if the spun like the metal ones

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