(Topic ID: 186365)

Best choice between Gran Prix and Night Rider from a repair POV

By phil-lee

6 years ago


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  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by monsonb
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    #1 6 years ago

    I would appreciate everyones advice on which machine to purchase based on a repair difficulty scale. I want a Spinner and these two receive high marks, however, parts availability,complication of repair to proper working order,etc are a primary concern.
    The other is Gameplay. Were the late-model Williams superior to the same-Era Bally machines? Are the Williams more complicated, or problematic?
    I am leaning toward a Night Rider based on Player Comments,however, I have heard good things about the Williams spinner as well.
    Any input appreciated!

    #2 6 years ago

    I hear Grand Prix is the ultimate bitch to get working for some reason.

    Gameplay aside, I would say the Night Rider is your best bet on repair. And if you say it's a better player and you want that one more, well, then there you go. That was easy!

    I am not sure that late model Williams games are much more complicated than late model Bally games, probably pretty much the same in terms of how hard they are to each fix. Different mechanisms of course, but I just mean the difficulty. For some reason though Grand Prix is one single title that seems to stand out as noted (intentionally or unintentionally) by others as hard to get working from the project state. (Not sure about longevity-wise) I don't know why. I've never played one. Does it have separate bonus units or something? I forget.

    #3 6 years ago

    I appreciate your response but I was looking for a little more in-depth experience from past( or present)Owners of these two machines.
    Did Bally correct the weak Jones-Plug system from their earlier Ems?
    Is the Bally flipper system at the end of the EM Era as quick and powerful as the Williams?
    The Bally spinner unit(Pulse Unit), more or less problematic than the Williams?
    Thanks go to anyone owning a Night Rider to share their maintenance experience.

    #4 6 years ago

    I've owned my Grand Prix since it came off route in the late 70's when I was a kid and I have to say it's been pretty much problem free. The only time I had any issues is when I moved it from one house to another and a few things went out of whack, all easily fixable. I can't speak from a non-working project state but for me it's been a solid machine. On the other hand, every Gottlieb EM I've ever owned needed constant tinkering to keep working properly.

    #5 6 years ago

    supermatt ,did you play a Bally Night Rider back then? Which one had the best Spinner?

    #6 6 years ago

    I've had Grand Prix for about 4 months now and I love it. I've had to do some work to both bonus units that were in the game as they were not working properly, but wasn't a big deal at all once I talked to people better than me at fixing EMs. It's been a tank other than that. Gets played the most when I have people over. And those spinners rip for days.

    I will say I much prefer the chime boxes of ballys to Williams. Williams chimes are much more clunky sounding.

    I can see either of these games being a bear to get working if they are project pins, but that's just me with EMs. I'd much rather start with a working one and fix things as they break.

    Haven't played night rider but definitely seems like a fun layout with the spinners and drops.

    #7 6 years ago

    I have a few EM including Grand Prix and a few early SS. In terms of a Grand Prix- It's the most complex EM ever produced so it's heavy and loaded with mechanisms. Thus, in terms of repair people tend to think it's complex because there is a lot to look at and many interconnections. Any EM will be rock solid stable and take abuse once it's dialed in. Never played much Of the other game but Grand Prix is great- classic game but it's not like it's deep or anything. Shoot spinners, keep shooting spinners and occasionally need to drop a target that did not get hit randomly with pop action. If your new to EM repair Grand Prix is going to be a hard core intro but whatever- plenty of help available if your willing to work.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    supermatt ,did you play a Bally Night Rider back then? Which one had the best Spinner?

    Sorry, never played Night Rider but the Grand Prix spinners are great.

    #9 6 years ago

    I had both Grand Prix and EM Night Rider set up, and now only the Grand Prix.
    I liked the N.R., but for sure the Grand Prix more. When both were set up (in the
    same line up), the G.P. got more play. You probably can't lose with either, but
    I'm pretty positive you wouldn't have any regrets if you decided on Grand Prix..
    I have many more machines than space, so the Night Rider is leaving come the
    Allentown Show.. It's looks certainly had nothing to do with it's departure.. (T)

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    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    It's looks certainly had nothing to do with it's departure..

    Maybe it should have. Joking. But I will admit to not loving the Back Glass on NR. I do remember playing it when it was new in a truck stop in Texas, I was 18. Several other greasy spoons since then,it seems to fit in beer joints in the South.
    Anyway, Its a great player as far as EM goes, from a lot of reviews as well as my memories).
    A Back Glass re-theme might be in order,something with killer cars and bikes from the late 70's. Pack the original glass away safely.
    Several comments from Pinsiders describe Night Rider as a "Modern Machine".
    MOPAR, are the troublesome Bally Jones plugs from the earlier machines still on NR?
    Thanks everyone.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Maybe it should have.

    Yeah, but I wasn't referring to the trucker..
    I've went through 60s and 70s Ballys, and to be truthful, I never had
    noticed a problem with any of their Jones Plugs. Once cleaned, seemed
    problem free..
    Night Rider's not a bad machine, but I don't think I'll miss it. I miss
    Hokus Pokus more, but for a good price, I certainly would pick another
    one up.
    Someone offered a fair price for the N.R., and since I have another
    machine (pretty rare) coming in, I let N.R. go, but wasn't really
    looking to get rid of it. Just had it stored thinking someday maybe to
    have it set up again.. (T)

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    Yeah, but I wasn't referring to the trucker..

    C'mon, you have to elaborate, is it the Waitress? Or the CB radios? Or just the overall hokey scheme?
    I gotsta know.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    Yeah, but I wasn't referring to the trucker..
    I've went through 60s and 70s Ballys, and to be truthful, I never had
    noticed a problem with any of their Jones Plugs. Once cleaned, seemed
    problem free..
    Night Rider's not a bad machine, but I don't think I'll miss it. I miss
    Hokus Pokus more, but for a good price, I certainly would pick another
    one up.
    Someone offered a fair price for the N.R., and since I have another
    machine (pretty rare) coming in, I let N.R. go, but wasn't really
    looking to get rid of it. Just had it stored thinking someday maybe to
    have it set up again.. (T)

    The Bally jones plug issue is about like the Bally lamp socket issue. Much exaggerated. I've had way more issues with Gottlieb lamp sockets than I've ever had with Bally sockets. Never had an issue with a Bally jones plug either.

    As for this comparison, never worked on a Night Rider, only played it. GP is the better player. And it is the most complicated EM I've ever worked on.

    #14 6 years ago

    an EM Night Rider is not the easiest to find. It is in my opinion a totally fantastic game that is extremely fun to play. Alternating spinners you can rip for a ton of points. Great game that isn't impossible to roll over and when you do you hear a great bell and "king of the road" lights up in the little box above Night Rider. The only reason I dont own one is because i am waiting for a super nice one.

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    C'mon, you have to elaborate,

    Well, to be truthful, I'm thinking between the 1st and 3rd player..

    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    The Bally jones plug issue is about like the Bally lamp socket issue. Much exaggerated.

    Yeah, it's a first for me hearing about Bally's poor Jones Plugs, but I have many times heard about their
    lamp sockets even the ones from the 50s. I've went through many ball bowlers, and I felt and still do that
    the Bally light sockets are much better than the ones United used. I haven't had a tremendous amount of
    problems with United sockets, but none at all with the Ballys, or nothing excessive on their pins either..

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    an EM Night Rider is not the easiest to find.

    Maybe I should have hung onto it, but it's a done deal now..

    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    The only reason I dont own one is because i am waiting for a super nice one.

    Mine wasn't bad. Nice cab. too..

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    #17 6 years ago

    I backed away from the NR purchase,after much thought, I just couldn't get around the ugly "Trucker in love" Back Glass. I know its a great player, I may regret it in the future.
    Now,I'm going back and read "Best Spinner" threads to find another candidate.
    Thanks again for the comments.

    #18 6 years ago

    in my opinion WMS EMs are easier to work on and repair than Ballys

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from rufessor:

    most complex EM ever produced

    *Coughs*

    Bingo pinballs.

    That's said, I've worked on a number of Grand Prix games and a lot of Bally games from that era. Bally thought more about the technician, in my opinion, than Williams, and I vastly prefer Night Rider to Grand Prix from a gameplay perspective.

    Some Bally EM thoughts:

    50v for everything makes life pretty simple.

    Stepper design is superior

    Score reel design is very similar, but Bally is the template in my head for easy to repair score reel. Nylon parts are simple to clean and reuse.

    Relay banks and playfield items generally have a nice separation (unlike late model Williams).

    Lamp sockets are generally not bad unless you're working on a bingo... Compared to a Gottlieb lamp strip with a bad socket, geez.

    Jones plugs do get a lot of hate. I like their Jones Plug design, but the Williams is more solid, but the Williams female plugs are harder to clean.

    Relay board lifts out easily and relays are elevated to keep general dirt off.

    Their fuse blocks, though, are sometimes bent out of shape from heat. I see this much more often on bingos.

    Anyway, I know this is moot, but just some repair thoughts.

    I personally really really dislike the way that relays are stacked on the back of the playfield on Grand Prix.

    The steppers mounted so close to the apron are also a bit irritating and I've worked on two now that have had their stepper spiders bent (from someone less-than-carefully handling that).

    If anyone spills a beer in a Williams of this era, it all tends to fall on the fuse block for some reason. but the all-metal dual clip design is mechanically superior.

    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    The Bally jones plug issue is about like the Bally lamp socket issue. Much exaggerated. I've had way more issues with Gottlieb lamp sockets than I've ever had with Bally sockets. Never had an issue with a Bally jones plug either.

    Oh, just saw this - just reiterating at this point, but I've worked on Bally games where the plug has broken on one female pin. A bit irritating, but not the end of the world. You're talking a max of 24 (48 if you desolder wires first) to solder.

    #20 6 years ago

    I almost didn't buy a Grand Prix project because of the difficulty hype. I decided to bite the bullet, and bought a machine that had sat unused in a warehouse for over a decade. I had to used a leaf blower to clean out the cabinet.
    With the help of Pinsiders, in a few weeks I owned a working machine that was a blast to play.
    I can't vouch for the machine you were considering, but I think you can trust the people on this site to help you as much as they can.

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