That's just the state of pinball things. An old game has to either be better than a new 6500 Stern game or, it has to have a theme where people can't say no... No new buyer is looking for a 10K rarity or 6K "restoration" either. (Yes, I'm counting MMr and AFMr and CCr as a NEW game and not a classic.)

It's not very common (like the OP) who (I think) is looking for their FIRST game... Most first pin buyers are not changing their mind and buying a Firepower, Eight Ball Deluxe, or a Fish Tales instead of a Jurassic Park Pro with a warranty. Will NEVER happen. Times are different now. We are not in a time where people were comparing so-so Sterns like Big Buck Hunter and 24 to classics like STTNG, Fish Tales, NGG, and Jackbot.

These days people are comparing the best new 7K-15K games to everything else. Older classics have little chance if money is no object with new buyers who are just getting into the hobby. Now, a classic might have a chance as a "2nd or 3rd" pin purchase.

I sold mine a year ago for $5,500. Nice shape all around with rebuilt boards and color DMD. It's never taken off price-wise like the other classic 90's titles have.

I wonder if the theme holds it back for people. It's an absolutely loaded game, lots of fun

STTNG's theme is still enormously popular for anyone with any kind of tech or fantasy awareness from the 1980s. TNG was never displaced by Abrams Trek or the "nu-trek" streaming series at all. It's as timeless as Addams Family.

I think what holds it back is the playfield, particularly the outlanes - people get frustrated with them, so don't keep the game forever like they do with TAF or AFM, but sell it and keep it in circulation. STTNG doesn't quite have that same feeling of "one more game and I'll do better" as the others, it's more like one more game will just make the outlanes eat me again.

I feel another thing holding it back (if it IS being held back, that is) is that stern's star trek is basically sttng but better. That plus the modea can just be timed out. A slight software change could have made that better.

I’m big into theme and although I want to say shadow, I just can’t get past all the cheese. The theme absolutely kills that game. If you can get past it, the game is great

Best bang for your buck has to be World Cup soccer. Now one might make the same argument and that the theme holds it back but I dig the 90s World Cup theme and love soccer - my kids do too. Win win. In fact I’m prob buying one again! Miss it. And compared to a Stern, it blows it away with the toys and creativity.

No need for Pinsound. Just get the 4.0 (or is it 4.1?) rom chip. Crypt Keeper laugh is minimized, video mode improved, plus other improvements.

Most of these are good games. Really good games. I loved owning Demo Man. What a fun game to play. And BSD was a grail game for me. I looked for a long time, and finally found a great copy. I owned it for many years, and loved it. I rate BSD as one of the best games ever made. I rate Judge Dredd as the worst.

But Getaway is still here. It has outlasted them all. I’ve introduced quite a few people to pinball machines having rules on Getaway. In fact, it’s currently my longest owned game. It’s simple, and fun. And sometimes that’s all I ask of my pinball machines. When I leave this world, I’ll probably still own that Getaway.

Inspiration struck from this thread.

C3566EA9-212D-492A-BBB7-241359E53478 (resized).jpeg

I agree BSD is one of the best! I’ve owned mine for almost 28 years. It was the first machine that I bought. It can be super rewarding. Sometimes you can stack multi balls, blow it up and score big points. Other times it stomps on your face. The rules are fairly simple so non pinball people enjoy it and don’t get confused what they are shooting for. Most importantly it has that “just one more game” feeling that draws you back game after game. If I could only have one machine it would be BSD.

How would No fear be in a 2 pin collection next to a Whirl Wind? I played a little on one but it wasn't set up good. Is it pretty good once you get into it?

The problem with No Fear is that it's usually better to time out the modes, they aren't worth enough and it's better to survive to the final mode that's worth much more. If that doesn't bother you, then yes it's a fine choice. The layout is good and the aesthetic doesn't quite feel dated.

Uhh shadow is way better than any modern stern for the price. I sold mine for 8k back in like March this year. It beats any modern stern on creativity, mechs, art, audio/visual, layout, even the code is pretty wide and the final battle is amazing. It’s a super challenging masterpiece that crushes all. Brian eddy’s true masterpiece!

Well you have STTNG ranked well and the modes from that are recycled into No Fear so thats well. Jump Ramp is always fun. Obviously its almost the worst theme of all time.

I agree that the theme is kind of obnoxious!!

Just curious on Rocky and Bullwinkle? I think that I played one only one time but I loved the cartoon growing up. A bit cheaper too.

It's a Data East & possibly the worst audio of any machine ever produced...EVER. They made a sound mod to make Joe Pecsi stop saying OK a million times for Lethal Weapon yet this "Wrong hat/Ohhhhhhh MR Peabody" is allowed to walk the fucking Earth; I'll never understand it.

Hahaha
I love the theme but the videos of gameplay that I saw were really annoying and loud. I wish the theme was redone properly!

I disagree. I own a R+B as it was a favorite cartoon when I was young. The audio is bad compared to other machines but not near as bad as DR Who. That machine gives me a headache almost immediately. It’s a shame because I enjoy the gameplay even tho I’m not a fan of the show at all. The time expander is a pretty cool mech.

My wife bought a sweet Tales from the Crypt over 20 years ago. She loved the Tv show. That machine also gives me a headache almost immediately. Shrill grating high frequency sound package.I wish there was a crypt keeper “shut the F up” setting.

All (3) have the typically Choppy DE flippers but At least I can play R+B without getting a migraine. It’s no A list machine that’s for sure but it’s a nice addition to my collection. Non pinball people really enjoy playing it due to the nostalgia factor.

BSD is the best 90’s machine in the 4-6k price range. Pinball people and non players love it. My mother has no interest in playing pinball at all but enjoys a few rounds on BSD. The fact that it taunts you when you play poorly and is also very satisfying when you play well.

I just read this thread from the beginning. I need to look into Pinsound. Maybe I’ll enjoy TFTC after adding it.

Dirty Harry doesn’t get the love it deserves. I’ve wanted to add one to my collection for a very long time.

Indianapolis 500 is a great, underrated game. It was a low production game designed by Dennis Nordman. The same guy who did white water (and lots of others). Lots of fun! It’s got the actual announcers from the Indy 500! Pretty cool. I just happen to have a really nice one for sale at the moment. I think it’s still a great deal compared to a lot of other higher priced machines.

SOLD!

Machine - For Sale

Indianapolis 500 Archived

As is - “Up for sale: really nice Indianapolis 500! Everything works 100%. It’s dialed in, Plays fast and is clean. New black legs, bolts, and levelers. Newer rubber. Color DMD, comet L...”

2022-11-24

Chester, MD

MikeSinMD

6,000 (Firm)

Archived after: 9 days

Viewed: 293 times

Status: Sold (amount private)

Road Show should be on this list. It's a really fun game....not my favorite but really fun and fits the budget. Wide body, shaker motor, ramps, 4 flippers and shoots well. Oh and it's a Pat Lawlor machine.

Ha, that's fair.

You know, I'm aware doctor who has some tough audio, but I swear I love that game like I gave birth to it. It can do no wrong in my eyes.

Well.... except that feature that some games of this era had where they increase the volume in certain parts that were exciting. Luckily, pinsound boards remove that stupid feature.

I need to get to playing! Baywatch, BSD, Demo Man, LAH, Indy 500, Dirty Harry are all on my radar but never had the chance to actually play them

Sure I certainly would give some first impressions, we got it set up last night and played for awhile. It has the usual small bugs to track down like one wire that is the light for Caroline, S in the Pops, and shark fin must have a short it works intermittently. Adjust the coin door to shut better, interlock switch doesn't work in the diagnostic menu, etc... But thats half the fun. Playfield is really nice with hardly any wear in the scoop, VUK, etc...

First, I am used to Stern Pros, compared to them this thing is HEAVY! I don't know what it weighs but it is the heaviest pinball machine I have moved and it is substantially more beefy than a stern pulling it up the stairs. It made me realize we are trading awesome code for additional things in our pinball machines today. Kind of depends on the mood I am in which I prefer.

Second, this thing is loaded with stuff in it that you just don't see that today. Wireforms all over the place, the ramp lifts up to a physical ball lock for multiball, 4 flippers, VUK in the center, kickback in the left outlane (I mean come on thats awesome) diverter and additional scoop. etc.... Launch is a wireform so no wear on shooter lane so that is nice also.

Third, Artwork is ok, not great but a solid ok. This isn't Zombie Yeti here, and the cartoon swimsuits on the side are kind of hilarious in a what the heck kind of way. I know some have commented they find it offensive but in the TIKTOK world we live in this is pretty tame by today's standards. You also have the big Hoff staring into your eyes on the backglass.

Forth, gameplay is fun. Very straight forward modes for each character and I find them pretty fun especially for SEGA. You have a good variety of modes including: a mode for stand ups, mode for shark targets, mode for spinners, etc.... Seems to be pretty balanced all are worth enough to play them. This game would really be awesome if that right orbit went all the way around and fed the upper left flipper in my opinion. It is a short turn around instead. That upper left flipper is just begging to be used and it just doesn't get a huge chance with this layout. That is my only thoughts I really really want to rip that upper flipper off an orbit like a lot of today's games.

Fifth, DMD is large and not bad I would say especially for the time period. animations are simple and easy to read and understand. Sound is pretty repetitive but you would expect that.

Overall really good value for the price point and I am pretty happy with it so far.

The right orbit does feed the upper left flipper as long as the shark flipper isn’t activated by either completing all the shark targets or if the left inlane switch is activated.

It does rely on the kickout at the lower gate to send the ball around, however, so it’s not a clean orbit in the traditional sense. BW is such a great game for the $4k range.

Heck yeah very good value I just want that traditional orbit and not wait that second delay for a ball to go to the kickout. But I know that is nit-picky but I do really like the layout.

That's a weird response to his post. Did it just come out wrong, or are you mad?

Built like tanks, easily repairable, fun shooters with truly unique play styles and well engineered mechs.

Colordmd, Pinsound board, other add ons; feels new again. Some are even implementing rule changes which will only get better and more often.

The pressure is on I came in from work today and my 10 year old already put up 2.9 billion on Baywatch and got to earthquake mode. I can beat him on most modern sterns but he challenging for the top pinball dog in the household. Need a little help from Pam for inspiration maybe I will watch a few episodes.

Nah, it’s still a horribly designed game.

I bought a TFTC and on the second day, I put up a score of 4.6 billion. Call it luck, call it dialed in...call it whatever. I couldn't miss. It took about 2 hours for a 3 ball game. My hands were cramping. I found it so boring, I had to move on from it. I love spooky/haunted games, but it just had to go.

+1 for BSD. Other 90s games have come and gone but that one just has everything going for it with stacking multiballs combined with all it's great thematic elements. I've had it for over 8 years now.

Once you get into the high 5's, I would say just jump to a Mando Pro, AIQ, or Rush. But sub 4k, I'm grabbing Roadshow, Demo Man, WCS, JM.

I’m just an average player so game times are similar to our other machines. It’s got those Choppy DE flippers but if the sound package didn’t make me want to puncture my eardrums I might enjoy it more. It’s no A list machine that’s for sure.

Some of you highly skilled/ tournament players out there have incredibly long games on almost any machine. She wanted it and purchased it herself which was cool. It also fits in to the horror/spooky/ monster theme that kind of dominates my game room.

I thought it was going to get more votes
I never played DH but it’s been on my wishlist for a while

There just aren't a ton of them.

Exactly!
I also assume many are parked permanently in peoples homes due to the huge amount of Clint/DH fans.

Great game...looks kind of bland at first glance but the shots are very fun and it shoots really nice. I really enjoy it.

Really surprised LAH isnt getting called out more in this thread.

Gun launcher
3 scoops
Kick back
Crane
Danger bar that resets the drops
Physical ball lock
6 ball multiball
Shaker
Magnets
Topper

And great rules, non linear game play and nice dot animations, music changes for every mode.

And a ton of modes

And getting double super jp is a treat
Litz mb mode is cool too.

All the more reason why a long game should be fun and entertaining and should not feel like a chore. Also, if a game plays to long for your liking, you probably don't have it set up hard enough. There's a few that are very hard to keep short ball times like LOTR and Spiderman to name a couple.

Fun wise, in my opinion, it is right up there with Tommy as one of the best Data East machines. These days, it's probably a better bang for your buck than a 90's B/W game in this same price range.

Back on topic, I would rather have a BSD over a Jackbot but for what you get, Jackbot is probably a better value these days (under 6K). These are great games but, if we are only focused on the best of the best 90's game (under 6K) as the OP suggests, sadly LAH and Jackbot are simply not in that conversation.

BSD is hella fun but man do I hate the sound. Its too zaney for me. Sounds like a system 11. Thats my choice, but only because I own Shadow.

That’s actually one of the reasons I prefer games without DCS.

DCS is objectively a better sounding platform no doubt, but it’s highly limited to memory capacities, and every DCS game I’ve played just sounds so repetitive.

Have Pinsound in Getaway, STTNG and Shadow with upgraded speakers. STTNG needs a different soundtrack yet, that's the only one that was slightly underwhelming. The other two are brand new games. Epic.