(Topic ID: 209672)

Bench Test Stern SB100

By Cheddar

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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  • Nugent Stern Electronics, 1978

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SB100_Q1x200_mod.jpg
U9 Back Detail (resized).jpg
U6 Detail Back (resized).jpg
U6 Detail (resized).jpg
IMG_20180214_175337209 (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

Is it possible to bench test a stern sb100? I can test the different voltages at the test points by hooking it to a bench power supply. I can hook it to a speaker and jump the volume pot pins but how can I trigger a sound?

Has anyone been able to do this?

#3 6 years ago

you could power the board and see that the square wave generator circuits work and you could introduce some noise through the amplifiers, but the way the way the sound board is right on the MPU's CPU address/data bus you cant really ground an a pin and get a sound a like you can with an early WMS board. So I think it is best to test the sb100 and sb300 sound board attached to a mpu. typically that means mounted in a game.

The LM324 + 4013 circuits seem to cause the most problems in the sb100. test points 2, 3, and 5 should adjust the square wave/frequency/average voltage reading when you twizzle the trim pots.

#4 6 years ago

Thanks @barankdl that makes sense. I'll Yank the mpu too. This is my first sb100 I've worked on so I'd like to have it on the bench.

Now I just have to find my notes on how to cheat the 7th flash.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Thanks @barankdl that makes sense. I'll Yank the mpu too. This is my first sb100 I've worked on so I'd like to have it on the bench.
Now I just have to find my notes on how to cheat the 7th flash.

cheating the 7th flash might not be good enough. I am not sure if the software will run enough to get to solenoid/sound test without the zero cross detector working. The game has to see a zero cross transition to interrupt the CPU into check and perform sound/solenoid stuff.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

cheating the 7th flash might not be good enough. I am not sure if the software will run enough to get to solenoid/sound test without the zero cross detector working. The game has to see a zero cross transition to interrupt the CPU into check and perform sound/solenoid stuff.

It works fine with cheating the 7th flash. I've bench tested SB-100 sound boards with no problem.

#7 6 years ago

I don't have the experience yet to know if this would work but I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to use an old SDB to drive a chime box instead of fixing this sound board

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I don't have the experience yet to know if this would work but I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to use an old SDB to drive a chime box instead of fixing this sound board

You'd have to modify the ROMs to do that. The sound board is addressed differently to driving solenoid based chimes.

What's wrong with this SB-100 sound board?

#9 6 years ago

I've actually got 2 of them

Board #1 has no tone on multivibrator #2. The voltage on TP3 is 0

Board #2 (that I got on ebay for $10!) has good voltages on all test points but no audio output

Trying to decide which is the easier repair.

#10 6 years ago

Board #1 - If you have 2.5V at pin 3 of U8, then U8 is suspect, otherwise U17 is suspect.

Board #2 - Check for 10V at TP9. Check for 7V at pin 1 of either U20 or U21. If all ok, then U14 (Audio attenuator), U18 (audio mixer) or U20/U21 (final output amps) are suspect.

They're both easy repairers, but look at board #1 first.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Board #1 - If you have 2.5V at pin 3 of U8, then U8 is suspect, otherwise U17 is suspect.
Board #2 - Check for 10V at TP9. Check for 7V at pin 1 of either U20 or U21. If all ok, then U14 (Audio attenuator), U18 (audio mixer) or U20/U21 (final output amps) are suspect.
They're both easy repairers, but look at board #1 first.

Great advice. Thanks

#12 6 years ago

If you get the second one working, I'd buy it off you.
been looking for a working one for a while.

#13 6 years ago

Can I jump the volume pot with a lead like a williams game?

#14 6 years ago

U8 was the culprit on board 1. Pin 3 had 1.5V. Compared against U9 pin 3 and 11 and did not match. Chip tester reported Err but I was not sure it supported this chip anyway. Pulled U8 from board 2 and chip tester reported ok. Swapped into board 1 and I have all sounds.

I'd like to do the Sound Quality update on it http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Adjusting_the_Sound_Quality_on_a_Stern_SB-100_board and then I need to figure out the right pot settings to put the tones in the correct place.

Haven't looked at board 2 yet. I'll inspect the board and pull and test those chips to see if something stands out

@quench, @barakandl, and acebathound thanks for the help

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I'd like to do the Sound Quality update on it http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Adjusting_the_Sound_Quality_on_a_Stern_SB-100_board and then I need to figure out the right pot settings to put the tones in the correct place.

Before doing the mod, try and adjust the tones down to less piercing frequencies. I've previously posted on SB100 repair posts on Pinside about using an online piano as a frequency reference for tuning these boards. I'll have to hunt through my old posts if you want it.

#17 6 years ago

Much better! Thanks for the tuning tip Quench

#18 6 years ago

The frequencies in that link were to reset the tones to high pitch for the original Rev A SB-100 boards used in Lectronamo and Wild Fyre. Those frequencies might get a bit grating/annoying after a while, hence the reason why Stern lowered the frequencies on later games and the service bulletin/mod.

This link is how they are tuned on my Hot Hand which has the Rev C-1 board - the frequencies are about the same as the mod on the pinwiki link and are what Magic and probably Trident are tuned to:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sb-100-no-sound#post-3966433

If you can't get the frequencies this low then just scale them down as far as you can go - essentially they are musically keyed.

#19 6 years ago

Interesting development. #1 SB-100 locks up the mpu on boot. Previously I had been using an altek while I fixed the mpu-100 and it appears to have diodes on the 32 pin connector and avoided locking up.

I traced all of the lines on the 32 pin header on both boards and verified they had connectivity back to the source. I also tested the 32 pin cable to eliminate that. I then started pulling the wires 1 by 1 on the cable to see if I could identify which was causing the lockup. Pin 25 is the culprit. Strangely enough the board works fine with it disconnected but that is not the solution.

This is a Rev B board and it has a weird config near U6 with a resistor in place of a jumper (near R93 on a rev c board) and a cap that jumps from a resistor leg to C52. The resistor tests fine. I'll pull and test U6 (74107) and replace the cap 4.7uf tantalum and see if this fixes the problem.
IMG_20180214_175337209 (resized).jpgIMG_20180214_175337209 (resized).jpg

#20 6 years ago

CR1, R91 and C52 are missing because rev B boards don't have the chime simulation section.

I don't have a board handy to check but I presume the extra resistor and capacitor might be sitting on the reset line to effectively delay the release of the output amplifiers mute pin so you don't get any noises/squelches on power-up.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

CR1, R91 and C52 are missing because rev B boards don't have the chime simulation section.
I don't have a board handy to check but I presume the extra resistor and capacitor might be sitting on the reset line to effectively delay the release of the output amplifiers mute pin so you don't get any noises/squelches on power-up.

I do occasionally get a squelch on power up. That tells me maybe the cap is shorted. I'll check it out

On the Rev b I have a resistor where R93 goes on a Rev c. The cap is attached to the leg. Both of my Rev bs have it

#22 6 years ago

Still no luck. The 74107 (U6) tests bad but I don't think my tester is correct unless both of them are bad. The sound card still works if I can get the mpu to boot.

Swapped the capacitor on the reset line and it did not fix it. I need to understand what this line is trying to do i.e. start high and go low or vice versa so I can test it in the game.

I ordered more 74107 so I can try that as well.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Swapped the capacitor on the reset line and it did not fix it. I need to understand what this line is trying to do i.e. start high and go low or vice versa so I can test it in the game.

The reset line from the MPU board starts active low on powerup then goes high once 12V and 5V have reached approx nominal levels.
The sound board uses this reset line via U6 to mute the two amplifier chips on power up to prevent any abnormal noises.

The release of the reset line is extremely quick, and probably deactivates the mute too quickly on the Rev A boards. I'm presuming the resistor/capacitor is a simple RC network to delay the release of the reset line at the U6 74107 chip so it effectively holds the mute active for longer. But I'm guessing - would need to see more pictures front and back of the board to confirm how these components are wired in order to add it to the schematics.

In the mean time with the board back in the machine and in a locked up state what logic level are you seeing on the reset line? (measure at pin 40 of the CPU should suffice).
If you manually short pin 39 to pin 40 of the CPU (this reactivates /RESET) does the game then boot?

#24 6 years ago

Results:

With Sound card disconnected U9 - 40 starts low and goes high as expected
Connected stays low. Shorting 39-40 starts MPU

Interesting Find: I pulled U6 from the board and the reset stays low. According to the schematic it is a straight connection from Pin 25 to U6-10. None of those are tied to ground. Investigating deeper

#25 6 years ago

Ok this is fixed. Turns out the CD4013 at U9 on the SB-100 at was bad. U8 was bad and replaced earlier. I should have suspected this but the schematic doesn't show a relationship to U6. Now I know better.

Thanks to Quench for helping me find the solution. As much as a pain that this was I think I learned some valuable diagnostic skills here.

Here's some detail for the next guys:
Pin 25 of the interconnect comes to R93 (on Rev C, unlabeled on Rev B). This is a 47K resistor. The other leg of the resistor has a 3.3uF tantalum cap soldered to it that is also connected to the top hole of C52 (ground). C52 is otherwise unused on a Rev B board.
U6 Detail (resized).jpgU6 Detail (resized).jpg

Looking at the back of the board it is easy to miss that there is a jumper from the left leg of the resistor to the top of C50. C50 was not shorted so this would appear to be a dead end except that the trace from C50 continues on to a leg on U22 which is a 78L05 in a TO-220 package. This also test fine...
U6 Detail Back (resized).jpgU6 Detail Back (resized).jpg

Goin up the trace comes to U8-14 and U9-14. Replaced U9 and back in business.
U9 Back Detail (resized).jpgU9 Back Detail (resized).jpg

NOTE: this pics are from my parts board. I will clean and repair now that I have an idea what to do. Please don't mind the flux!

#26 6 years ago

Great stuff!
I've only had a very quick look at your pics, but I'll modify the SB100 schematic later with the mods and post it here. In case there's still a piece to the puzzle missing I'll come back to you.

BTW in the middle picture, the solder joint to the left of your red circle looks a little fractured - you might want to resolder it.

Cheers.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Board #2 - Check for 10V at TP9. Check for 7V at pin 1 of either U20 or U21. If all ok, then U14 (Audio attenuator), U18 (audio mixer) or U20/U21 (final output amps) are suspect.
They're both easy repairers, but look at board #1 first.

Started working on Board #2. 7V on U20 and U21 and 10V on TP9. U18 tested bad and I had a replacement. U14 works in my other board but in this board I'm still not getting audio.

I'll take a look at the signal path. I should be able to.pick up some of the audio on my USB oscilloscope. I've been looking for a good use. If U14 is good.i should be able to see some audio at U20 and U21 and that should demonstrate that those don't work.

#28 6 years ago

You can easily bypass the U14 volume attenuator by disconnecting and lifting the leg of resistor R19 that's connected to pin 7 of U14 (output pin). Connect a spare resistor 10k - 22k ohms between the lifted leg of R19 and pin 1 of U14 (input pin). If you get audio, U14 is suspect, or connection to the volume control is suspect.

A simple basic test of the output amplifiers: grab a metal screwdriver. Hold the metal part with your hand and place the tip of the screwdriver on the input to the final amplifiers which is the trace running between C54, R65, C39 and pin 2 of U20. You should get noise/hum. If you don't, the output amps are suspect.

Can you verify the value of the extra tantalum capacitor on the reset line? In post #19 you mention 4.7uF, but in post #25 you mention 3.3uF

Secondly, when I was repairing one of these boards a while ago, I found the schematic is missing a link connecting 5V to the trace between C18, R24 and the emitter pin of transistor Q1. Unfortunately I didn't note if the trace was connected to 5V from VDD (TP6) or VCC (TP1). Can you verify which 5V source it's connected to?

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

You can easily bypass the U14 volume attenuator by disconnecting and lifting the leg of resistor R19 that's connected to pin 7 of U14 (output pin). Connect a spare resistor 10k - 22k ohms between the lifted leg of R19 and pin 1 of U14 (input pin). If you get audio, U14 is suspect, or connection to the volume control is suspect.
A simple basic test of the output amplifiers: grab a metal screwdriver. Hold the metal part with your hand and place the tip of the screwdriver on the input to the final amplifiers which is the trace running between C54, R65, C39 and pin 2 of U20. You should get noise/hum. If you don't, the output amps are suspect.
Can you verify the value of the extra tantalum capacitor on the reset line? In post #19 you mention 4.7uF, but in post #25 you mention 3.3uF
Secondly, when I was repairing one of these boards a while ago, I found the schematic is missing a link connecting 5V to the trace between C18, R24 and the emitter pin of transistor Q1. Unfortunately I didn't note if the trace was connected to 5V from VDD (TP6) or VCC (TP1). Can you verify which 5V source it's connected to?

I used a 4.7 as I had it on hand. The board originally had a 3.3.

I'll have to trace it out but I'm guessing TP6. It takes a long path past Q18. I've got a tournament today and I'll trace it out tomorrow.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Secondly, when I was repairing one of these boards a while ago, I found the schematic is missing a link connecting 5V to the trace between C18, R24 and the emitter pin of transistor Q1. Unfortunately I didn't note if the trace was connected to 5V from VDD (TP6) or VCC (TP1). Can you verify which 5V source it's connected to?

Looking at my board it exactly matches the schematic on techdose for a Rev C in regards to Q1. The emitter is connected to the + side of C18 and R24 which connects to the - side of C10. The positive side of C10 is connected to U4-10. The Collector of Q1 connects to the - side of C18 and then R85 and R86. I don't see any additional jumpers associated here.

My guess would be TP1

#31 6 years ago

Thanks, can you do me one more favor and check the continuity from pin 14 of U19 to TP1 and TP6 and tell me which TP it's connected to?

Looking at the pic below from another thread (click to zoom in), the lower solder joint of R24 connects to the "VCC" trace running just above it. If you still have your board out, can you confirm? Looks to me like the other the replica transistor circuits for Q2, Q3, Q4 and Q5 used for the chime simulation (to the left of Q1) also have that respective point connected to VCC - these links are also missing from the schematic. I mention "VCC" here only because the schems say pin 14 of U19 is VCC, but I'm finding it hard to trust the schematics. It could be VDD.

Oh another error on the schematic, U6 is shown with two pin 13's - the Q output of U6 is really pin 3, not 13.
SB100_Q1x200_mod.jpgSB100_Q1x200_mod.jpg

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