(Topic ID: 57643)

Being "fair" with a buyer that has an issue with machine you sold


By too-many-pins

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 74 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by AkumaZeto
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “What is "fair" as far as fixing issues on machines sold after 30 days”

    • I always try to take care of my customers regardless of how long it has been since I sold a machine. 6 votes
      5%
    • I do what I can for customers even though machines were sold "as is" 51 votes
      40%
    • I look at it on a case by case bases but normally "as-is" is just that and it isn't my problem. 54 votes
      43%
    • I sold as-is so it just isn't my problem! Once I have the cash I am done with it! 15 votes
      12%

    (126 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

    There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 7 years ago

    AkumaZeto,

    I am very sad to see your post. Please don't take this personally but guys thinking like you hurt the hobby. Noobs are the life blood of the hobby and I try to do all I can for them. I know this comes with more issues but I am in the hobby to enjoy the hobby and to share this enjoyment with as many people as possible.

    Everyone please remember we are all in this together and pinball will only live on if we keep getting new people involved. Nothing gets me more excited in the hobby that to see kids that are into these machines. They are the future of the hobby!!!

    #52 7 years ago

    Too-many-pins,
    How do you sell your machines, ie, pinside, CL, eBay, etc. ?

    #53 7 years ago

    Up until this point we have sold basically by word of mouth and on Craig's List trying to keep all transactions local. When we tried listing on Pinside, RGP, MrPinball, and eBay we found so many buyers don't understand NO SHIPPING.

    I don't mind the idea of shipping a game but I really want all buyers to come see and play each machine to be sure they are 100% happy. Selling something and shipping it without buyer looking at and playing that machine just doesn't work for me.

    I realize this limits my number of buyers and we can't get as much money for machines but I just really feel better if someone plays a machine they want before giving me any cash for it. That way they know exactly what they are getting.

    We are not in the pinball business we just love fixing up machines and we only have space for about two dozen right now. So every time we fix up a machine we either have to sell one of ours or the one we fixed because we are totally out of space.

    Parting with machines keeps getting tougher since most of what we have is stuff we really like. So we are thinking more & more about just getting away from buying & fixing machines and getting into another hobby. Not to say we will not keep a bunch of machines for ourselves but our days of buying and selling are numbered.

    #54 7 years ago

    Sounds like you're hitting the "customer service and quality" wall. You can either give great service and warranty or you can sell at low prices. Doing both is how small businesses fail. Raising quality costs money.

    I'm not saying double your prices and give a 14 day warranty. But if you want to provide service at no charge weeks after the sale that needs to be partially built into every sale price so the cost averages out over the month.

    #55 7 years ago

    Since this is 100% a hobby for us I am not all that worried about the extra cost of doing the right thing for my past customers. When we fix up machines we try to do pretty much everything we can to make the reliable but that is pretty much impossible with 30 year old machines. So every once in a while a machine will end up getting us. The crazy thing is after selling over 50 machines we never had an issue like we did a few weeks ago with 3 machines in a row with issues.

    Normally, in the past, it was always simple little stuff we were able to walk customers through but these 3 machines all ended up with some type of board issues. I think we should have caught the weak fuse holder and that is why I replaced that guys board for free including us paying the shipping. But the other two machines with electronic parts failing after a few weeks I know I can't cover 100% or eat the entire cost. Or at least I can't keep doing that and still keep our prices where they are.

    It was just kind of discouraging getting hit with 3 machines in a row having issues with in a few months of us selling them. And it is also the first time one of our customers has had to use my buddy (the in home service guy) to get one of our machines fixed. I don't mind seeing him get some extra business I just don't like it when it is on something we sold!

    #56 7 years ago

    I am not a retailer but I fixed issues with the last two pins I sold. I feel it is the right thing to do even though the machine may be abused in the new atmosphere. ( Not saying they were) One was a minor switch issue(Destroy the ring) but the other was a blown transistor that I replaced for the buyer(VUK on BF). I only did this within the first 30 days of the machine sale. I want folks to enjoy the machines they bought and hope that they will spread the word that pinball is fun...

    #57 7 years ago

    Just like a car, sell it at an auction, and you'll never hear from the whiner that had no business expecting something that old would be perfect, again.

    #58 7 years ago

    Sounds like you are being very reasonable with your buyers too-many-pins. Honestly anyone who buys a 20+ year old game as-is from a private seller should have no expectation of any warranty or guarantees from the seller. An exception would be where a seller intentionally lied/hid an issue.

    I'm a collector so selling is not something I do often. But if a noob showed up to buy one of my games I'd be wary of making the sale. I'd go out of my way to make sure they understood that collecting classic pins means repairing your own games or paying someone else to do it. Way too many things to go wrong with an aging pin.

    #59 7 years ago

    Not sorry to say, I'm in the same boat as AkumaZeto.

    If the person buying does not know a red DMM lead from the black I'd rather not sell. I know it will break, I know they will think its my fault. I barely have time to keep my own machines running and pull a 60/hr week job without having to drive across town to find a bad fuse.

    And like AkumaZeto, I learned by paying cheap from Operators who had stuff sitting in a warehouse, or people with a decrepid old machine in a barn (even had one that had rotted squash dripping down the glass and sides once), and taking them home and working on the for weeks before they were playable. And the reason Operators sold them too me fairly cheap, they knew I was not coming back looking for support. $100 for a Genie? Sure thing, thank you, gone.

    Thats how you develop the 'love' of the hobby IMHO. Thats why I am still doing it after 25 years.

    When I do sell machines, it's to move something out of my collection to make room for something I like better. I like to see my machines going to a good home where they will be taken care of. I've sold two machines in the past year and both have nice happy owners.

    If you are a total n00b and do not want to learn or expect someone to fix any problems for you, buy from someone who is offering a warranty. Don't buy a value pin and expect premium service.

    #60 7 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    From day one we realized there really is no money in the pinball hobby. Regardless if you flip machines, open an arcade, restore machines, sell parts, or what ever else you can do pinball CAN'T be about money. There just isn't enough money in this hobby these days to make it into a business so if you are involved you have to be into it for the love of the hobby and we are. But right now family issues have me pulled in too many other directions to devote the time I would need to if I were to try to open an arcade or put machines on location. So now to do away with storage rent (that is killing me) some machines have to get sold.

    Absolutely not true. Plenty of money floating around in this hobby.....plenty. This hobby is really quite niche so it is all about out of the box thinking and developing on that niche. A lot of standard things just don't work, as with many niche items. I'm sure you can find a way to keep fixing and selling those games for a profit. If you do awesome work then no reason you shouldn't be making some good money. Price your games to what they are valued for.

    If you really are selling for such a low price then perhaps make it known to yourself this is absolutely your side hobby and will do it only in your spare time. On that note as well, sell newer games with higher $$$ value if you want to be able to fix up and get more $$$ out of them. Regardless of how sweet you make a Xenon, you just can't get $3k out of them type thing so not the most room for profit in those older machines and they have an even smaller niche within the hobby themselves.

    Best of luck and keep pumping out those machines! Get some sweet before/after pics of your work too. People will definitely appreciate those here

    #61 7 years ago

    I agree with the people who point out the customers that you are dealing with are different than a lot of us. we would buy a game knowing "those are the breaks" if something were to break. if my inexperienced son bought a used car and it broke 500 miles later then I would expect the used car dealer to work with me. on the other hand if I were to buy a car from someone (dealers included) and I beat them up on price then the repair would be on me. the last thing a retailer wants are a bunch of higher income people talking pinball and deciding "avoiding so and so" is something you should do at all costs. you never really get a chance to repair a tarnished image.

    #62 7 years ago

    If you buy a car or a pinball machine from a dealer, then you should expect some kind of a warrantee, but when purchasing from a private party you should thoroughly inspect what you are buying or bring along someone to do it for you, and expect that what you are buying is being sold as is and the purchase is final, and the seller should clarify this, unless another agreement has been made.

    #63 7 years ago
    Quoted from Patofnaud:

    If you are a total n00b and do not want to learn or expect someone to fix any problems for you, buy from someone who is offering a warranty. Don't buy a value pin and expect premium service.

    And if you do want to learn, how are you supposed to do that without helpful folks to coach you along and show you the ropes?

    I'm fairly new to this hobby, there's nothing in a pinball that I can't handle mechanically... but learning how to read a schematic and know where to look when troubleshooting is something that someone needs to teach you.

    It's no different than the old car hobby, with which I am very familiar. Modern cars are all set up the same way... turn the key, and go-- the pedals are all in the same place. I could put you in front a Model T and I would bet money that you couldn't even get it started without serious injury, and if you did, you wouldn't have a clue how to drive it. Does that mean I should mock, deride, or refuse to sell one to you? No... it means that I help you get set up with the basics (including safety stuff that one wouldn't even consider in a modern car) and make myself available to help out as I can. It's not a warranty, it's someone willing to help you get up to speed.

    #64 7 years ago

    Go to a Randy Fromm class. OPEN A BOOK! GASP! I could Start a Model T no problem. Hell I can Start a 1938 Buggati. Oil Prime Ignition retard and so forth. HELP YOURSELF before assuming someone else will.

    biggest pia on a model t is bleeding the oil of the clutch plates in winter.

    #65 7 years ago

    Ok... let's break that down... assume someone is brand new... who is Randy Fromm and how is someone supposed to find out about him? Moreover, you're expecting someone to travel and spend more for the class than they likely did for the pin! Have a little understanding here that not everyone can afford premium machines, and some who can afford them don't know if they like the hobby well enough to shell out that kind of money to get started.

    Your comments about the model t tell me that you don't understand the dangers of starting one... how are you going to play pinball with that broken thumb?

    #66 7 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    broken thumb?

    Broken head. Lol

    -1
    #67 7 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Your comments about the model t tell me that you don't understand the dangers of starting one... how are you going to play pinball with that broken thumb?

    If your a tard and cant start a hand cranked tractor you shouldn't start a model t

    #69 7 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Ok... let's break that down... assume someone is brand new... who is Randy Fromm and how is someone supposed to find out about him? Moreover, you're expecting someone to travel and spend more for the class than they likely did for the pin! Have a little understanding here that not everyone can afford premium machines, and some who can afford them don't know if they like the hobby well enough to shell out that kind of money to get started.

    This is exactly why I dont sell to noobs this attitude right here. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD! I cant afford premium machines either. I became a ASE certfied master mechanic because when I was 16 the starter went out in my 78 280z! So I LEARNED ON MY OWN. Bolts go in bolts come out. Go to the library and pickup a book on schematics 101 and theory of operation.

    Pinball is the way it is today because noobs cant even turn off a machine before they scatter leds threw out the machine. Atleast 5 posts a week pop up because some idiot tried doing something with his machine on.

    I got a service call 3 months ago on a TSPP for a frickign mis adjusted leaf swtich on the flipper button. I showed the dude what was wrong and that it can happen often. showed him how to fix it. Next week guess who calls me back clueless.

    Our society today is of the mind why learn I can pay someone else to fix it. That what NOOBSIDE is all about. Why learn I can pay Joe blow all the time. Works for me. Keep the calls coming.

    I sell to collectors because they know that after lugging a machine around in the back of a vehicle is likely to cause switch errors and a hand full of dead bulbs.

    I dont know the first thing about EM's but if I wanted to I would source reading materials from the library from that time period and learn. Then If I had more direct questions I would ask others. To many people these days want the answer and not the reason or the how to.

    Just like Math having the right answer means nothing if you cant explain how it became the right answer.

    #70 7 years ago
    Quoted from AkumaZeto:

    This is exactly why I dont sell to noobs this attitude right here. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD!

    You assume a lack of willingness to learn that is probably imaginary. Truth is, it's a lot easier to change a starter than it is to troubleshoot a pinball...

    If "noobside" is so horrible, why are you still here?

    When good karma is conflated with bad attitude, things are definately twisted...

    #71 7 years ago
    Quoted from AkumaZeto:

    I became a ASE certfied master mechanic

    I knew we had something in common. That title means we make the BIG money, huh?

    #72 7 years ago

    You're missing the point entirely. Based on what I have read from you in this thread, I shouldn't be surprised by that.

    #73 7 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    That title means we make the BIG money, huh?

    yeah the big money lol.

    #74 7 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    You're missing the point entirely. Based on what I have read from you in this thread, I shouldn't be surprised by that.

    Yes this thread is like someone driving down the street with a flat tire wondering why the car pulls to the left. Better take it to the shop.

    Your a doctor though carry on!

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