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(Topic ID: 227858)

Beatles vs Oktoberfest


By Eskaybee

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 207 posts
  • 88 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by RTS
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Beatles vs Oktoberfest”

  • The Beatles 54 votes
    14%
  • Oktoberfest 303 votes
    80%
  • Undecided 24 votes
    6%

(381 votes)

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There are 207 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
#151 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Reminded me of this for some reason:

I was thinking Sell Out might be what you are talking about. I still have it on vinyl.

1967 on that one, Yesterday and Today was 1966.

It would be a shame if they tried to water any of these themes down to make them more politically correct to fit today's pinball standards.

It's the rebelliousness of the counter culture that brought many fans in to begin with.

#152 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It would be a shame if they tried to water any of these themes down to make them more politically correct to fit today's pinball standards. It's the rebelliousness of the counter culture that brought many fans in to begin with.

IMO it's all a question of what you're trying to do and how you do it. For instance, it'd be a travesty to scrub Getting Better from Sgt. Pepper's just because the lyrics make us uncomfortable today:
I used to be cruel to my woman
I beat her and kept apart from the things that she loved

That was John Lennon singing about who he was then, and ugly as it is it's a part of history. On the other hand, if I'm making a Beatles pin I wouldn't print those lyrics on the playfield. When you're picking out stuff to reproduce and highlight in a project like this, you're making something new, in 2018, and you have to live with the fact that your new product will be viewed through a 2018 lens, not a 1967 lens.

Same deal with stuff I grew up with in the 80s, frankly. Bits that may or may not have seemed racist in 1985 when they filmed Fletch sure reads that way today. I'd never want them snipped out of the movie, but when I show my kids one of my favorite comedies I'm going to have to put it in context for them so they don't think I'm A-OK with speaking faux-Spanish gibberish to the maids or calling the black man in a suit with a microphone "Sammy."

#153 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

when I show my kids one of my favorite comedies I'm going to have to put it in context for them so they don't think I'm A-OK with speaking faux-Spanish gibberish to the maids or calling the black man in a suit with a microphone "Sammy."

I always tell my kid something like "this is what it was like when white people could say just about anything, and most thought it was funny instead of getting offended. But it's still OK to do if you are not white."

#154 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

The PC pinball police strike again!
Next thing you know, they will have to come up with a new name for "balls".
I'm guessing that "Father Knows Best" pinball machine may soon become a reality after all.

“Balls” is passé. Thesaurus suggests it can safely be referred to as silver orbs or steel bowlers. Should never be combined with certain words like .. balls deep, balls a-pop-in, blue balls, full of balls, ball buster, silver ball, ball scratcher, three balls, balls of steel, itchy baller or schwetty balls.

#155 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Should never be combined with certain words like .. balls deep, balls a-pop-in...

So are you inferring no way on a remake of this one?

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#156 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I always tell my kid something like "this is what it was like when white people could say just about anything, and most thought it was funny instead of getting offended. But it's still OK to do if you are not white."

I suppose that’s one lesson you could draw from it ...

2 weeks later
#157 2 years ago

Oktoberfest. Not only does Beatles music get boring quickly but the Whole theme is Just lame.
Sgt pepper or yellow submarine stuff would of made it better. A little trippy

1 year later
#158 10 months ago

Oktoberfest. Not even close. It's fun to play and it's based on an awesome event and the gameplay nails it...
Beatles yeah let me see, nothing.

#159 10 months ago
Quoted from vassq:

Oktoberfest. Not even close. It's fun to play and it's based on an awesome event and the gameplay nails it...
Beatles yeah let me see, nothing.

Allow me to provide a few counterpoints. First, The Beatles influenced an entire generation in terms of pop culture, music and fashion. Their musical legacy has influenced many bands today. The Beatles are certainly the most influential and important popular music band ever. Most music critics uniformly agree with that proposition.

The art package and video (which is Stern's best integration) are based on the band's 1964 British Invasion of America.
The playfield is an improved reprise of a classic eighties Stern (Seawitch), with one of the manufacturer's historically most successful designs. The Beatles game is tremendous fun.

Oktoberfest, the "awesome event" to which you refer, has zero significance to me. It's little more than a very big annual party, Germany's version of Philadelphia's Mummers parade, extending over a period of several days. If the Oktoberfest event were to disappear tomorrow, the world wouldn't change one iota. In contrast, if the Beatles never existed, there would be a massive void, at the end of that long and winding road. Having recently viewed the film, Yesterday, on Netflix, in which The Beatles have been "forgotten" by all but a couple of people, I am reminded of the band's enduring influence.

Oktoberfest is a good effort by American Pinball. As an EM enthusiast, I prefer games with more straightforward rules and short ball times, like The Beatles. The opto spinners on The Beatles are a blast. The Beatles features 7 skill shots. The game is even coded with Christmas messages which surprise players during the holiday week. I suspect that 5 years from now, one of these games will be sought after and the other will be forgotten. The former game will involve a significant contribution to pop culture. The latter game will have something to do with a folk festival dedicated to beer.

#160 10 months ago

Something wrong with brats,beer and polka? Thats what we all do till this day and have celebrated it for over 200 years? No one dances to Beatles music in gyms anymore? Beatles title wont mean much to the younger crowd in 20 years but the festival will still go on past our lifetime.

#161 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Germany's version of Philadelphia's Mummers parade

Interesting phrasing. Per Wikipedia and <http://phillymummers.com/extended-history/>, the Philly Mummers parade started in 1901, at which time the German Oktoberfest was already nearly a century old.

Between the original German Oktoberfest and the hundreds of related events around the world, TENS OF MILLIONS of people experience Oktoberfest celebrations each year, so it seems dubious to suggest that nothing would change if all that just suddenly disappeared.

#162 10 months ago

Beatles vs. Oktoberfest? I'd like to own them both!

I'd personally go for Oktoberfest first though.

#164 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Allow me to provide a few counterpoints. First, The Beatles influenced an entire generation in terms of pop culture, music and fashion. Their musical legacy has influenced many bands today. The Beatles are certainly the most influential and important popular music band ever. Most music critics uniformly agree with that proposition.

In my view you are confusing the Beatles themselves with a Beatles merchandising product. With this argumentation you would have to rate anything offered with the Beatles name (lunchbox anybody?) higher than a similar product without the name. Let us not forget that this pin was not created by the Beatles, but by an organization which has nothing to do with Beatles other than they pay the Beatles money to use their name, images and music. If you like Stern’s interpretation then lovely, but in my view it doesn’t deserve higher ratings just because it’s a merchandising product of the Beatles. By the way, I’ve been to Oktoberfest 3 times and it’s pretty awesome. That’s not to say that I don’t worship the Beatles, which I do, but all the more reason I have no interest in the pin.

-6
#165 10 months ago
Quoted from branlon8:

In my view you are confusing the Beatles themselves with a Beatles merchandising product. With this argumentation you would have to rate anything offered with the Beatles name (lunchbox anybody?) higher than a similar product without the name. Let us not forget that this pin was not created by the Beatles, but by an organization which has nothing to do with Beatles other than they pay the Beatles money to use their name, images and music. If you like Stern’s interpretation then lovely, but in my view it doesn’t deserve higher ratings just because it’s a merchandising product of the Beatles. By the way, I’ve been to Oktoberfest 3 times and it’s pretty awesome. That’s not to say that I don’t worship the Beatles, which I do, but all the more reason I have no interest in the pin.

Yep. The Beatles music was great. The pin was overpriced garbage. John Lennon’s music was great, but he was a total POS as a father and person. Hey Jude, anyone.? That’s why he was killed. Chapman was disgusted with Lennon’s hypocrisy.

#166 10 months ago

I like Okt. Are there plans to improve the animations? Or maybe they have been? I haven't played it in a while.

#167 10 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Yep. The Beatles music was great. The pin was overpriced garbage. John Lennon’s music was great, but he was a total POS as a father and person. Hey Jude, anyone.? That’s why he was killed. Chapman was disgusted with Lennon’s hypocrisy.

What in the hell does Hey Jude have to do with some whack-job killing him???

#168 10 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

What in the hell does Hey Jude have to do with some whack-job killing him???

Unverified Legend that "Jude" was based on Julian Lennon, Johns first Son who he abandoned after meeting Yoko. Julian remained poor and struggled to contact his Father.

#169 10 months ago

As a Beatles fan I would not want to hear those same snippets of songs played over and over, pounded in my head where I could no longer enjoy them.
I played the snot out of Octoberfest Saturday and wanted to like it, figure it out and make it a favored player. It didn't happen, felt lost, clunky.

#170 10 months ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

Unverified Legend that "Jude" was based on Julian Lennon, Johns first Son who he abandoned after meeting Yoko. Julian remained poor and struggled to contact his Father.

Not unverified. Paul McCartney was on Howard Stern and they talked about it. Paul was more a father to Julian than John was.

#171 10 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Not unverified. Paul McCartney was on Howard Stern and they talked about it. Paul was more a father to Julian than John was.

I knew all that, still not sure what it has with him being murdered though.

#172 10 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I knew all that, still not sure what it has with him being murdered though.

I saw a documentary on Mark David Chapman. He told investigators that he shot Lennon because he felt Lennon was a hypocrite and did not live his life in the same way he wrote his music.

#173 10 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

I saw a documentary on Mark David Chapman. He told investigators that he shot Lennon because he felt Lennon was a hypocrite and did not live his life in the same way he wrote his music.

Crazy people can’t always separate the performer from the human being. Most of us can enjoy Lennon’s music for its greatness alone, regardless of whether he was a good person or not. Chapman had trouble with the love, peace, and anti-materialism in the songs, and couldn’t reconcile it to the man who was very materialistic and from all accounts didn’t give a crap about anyone but himself.

#174 10 months ago

Oktoberfest by a mile.

#175 10 months ago
Quoted from gliebig:

I like Okt. Are there plans to improve the animations? Or maybe they have been? I haven't played it in a while.

There have been lots of animation improvements since the initial release of Oktoberfest. Don’t know what version of the code you last played, but certainly check out a game running the latest code, I think you’ll be pleased.

#176 10 months ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Interesting phrasing. Per Wikipedia and <http://phillymummers.com/extended-history/>, the Philly Mummers parade started in 1901, at which time the German Oktoberfest was already nearly a century old.
Between the original German Oktoberfest and the hundreds of related events around the world, TENS OF MILLIONS of people experience Oktoberfest celebrations each year, so it seems dubious to suggest that nothing would change if all that just suddenly disappeared.

Oktoberfest's history isn't free of controversy. Nazis co-opted the festival as propaganda in 1933. Since its inception, there have been 24 years in which the event was not celebrated. The world somehow survived each of those years. The patrons got drunk in public elsewhere those years, without the benefit of buxom bar maidens, I suppose.

The festival is not important to the human condition and it's even less important to the zeitgeist of pinball as a hobby.

In my opinion, the festival is not particularly culturally significant. Is it entertaining? Yes. Is it well-attended? You bet. Australian cricket also features massive attendance and entertains large crowds; but, I suspect that cricket and pinball won't intersect soon.

As a pinball theme, Oktoberfest is fun and the game shoots well. American Pinball deserves credit for designing a good quality game. I simply think that the Beatles, both as a theme and as a pinball machine, will enjoy greater longevity.

The Beatles Gold is a very good value. The build of materials on the game is grossly undervalued. The multiple drop target banks, for example, are far more costly than the bash-toy and ramp features of most new releases.

Stern's miscalculation was releasing the platinum and diamond versions. Stern did so in the wake of its Supreme pinball selling for $50K, in a failed attempt to replicate that odd collector-crazy phenomenon.

Based on the poll here, the Oktoberfest fans well outnumber the Beatles fans. Downvote me if you must or just prove me wrong in 5 years when we re-examine the market and discover the pricing status of each good title. I hope that both hold their value. But, after 35 years in the hobby, my experience compels me to conclude that The Beatles Gold will fare better.

#177 10 months ago

287 - 42. Now that’s an ass kicking!

#178 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Oktoberfest's history isn't free of controversy. Nazis co-opted the festival as propaganda in 1933. Since its inception, there have been 24 years in which the event was not celebrated. The world somehow survived each of those years. The patrons got drunk in public elsewhere those years, without the benefit of buxom bar maidens, I suppose.
The festival is not important to the human condition and it's even less important to the zeitgeist of pinball as a hobby.
In my opinion, the festival is not particularly culturally significant. Is it entertaining? Yes. Is it well-attended? You bet. Australian cricket also features massive attendance and entertains large crowds; but, I suspect that cricket and pinball won't intersect soon.
As a pinball theme, Oktoberfest is fun and the game shoots well. American Pinball deserves credit for designing a good quality game. I simply think that the Beatles, both as a theme and as a pinball machine, will enjoy greater longevity.
The Beatles Gold is a very good value. The build of materials on the game is grossly undervalued. The multiple drop target banks, for example, are far more costly than the bash-toy and ramp features of most new releases.
Stern's miscalculation was releasing the platinum and diamond versions. Stern did so in the wake of its Supreme pinball selling for $50K, in a failed attempt to replicate that odd collector-crazy phenomenon.
Based on the poll here, the Oktoberfest fans well outnumber the Beatles fans. Downvote me if you must or just prove me wrong in 5 years when we re-examine the market and discover the pricing status of each good title. I hope that both hold their value. But, after 35 years in the hobby, my experience compels me to conclude that The Beatles Gold will fare better.

Bringing up nazi's, really? Thats stooping pretty low. If it didn't go on for 24 years and people didn't care then why did they bring it back? It couldn't have been possible with wars going on. Not culturaly significant? Then what is, cheeseburgers? Funny how it has to be the gold edition in order for it to be considered a contender to Oktoberfest.

#179 10 months ago

Oktoberfest does a better job at "Hey Jude". You tell me if this isn't fun?

#180 10 months ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

Oktoberfest does a better job at "Hey Jude". You tell me if this isn't fun?

Das sieht nach einer verdammt guten Zeit aus - die Deutschen wissen sicher, wie man feiert!

Ich möchte ein Oktoberfest und ich möchte auch zum Festival gehen!!!

Zwei meiner Lieblings-Österreicher spielen einen meiner Lieblings-Beatles-Songs:

-2
#181 10 months ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

Bringing up nazi's, really? Thats stooping pretty low. If it didn't go on for 24 years and people didn't care then why did they bring it back? It couldn't have been possible with wars going on. Not culturaly significant? Then what is, cheeseburgers? Funny how it has to be the gold edition in order for it to be considered a contender to Oktoberfest.

First, the gold edition of The Beatles is the good value version precisely because the platinum and diamond versions are saddled with an artificial price inflation. Specifically, all 3 versions are exactly the same game. The only differences are cosmetic in nature and those variations are minor, coupled with lower production numbers. Thus, there's nothing "funny" about that conclusion, unless you equate value with comedy.

As for the historical reference to a 24 year lapse in the festival, that lapse was not consecutive. Therefore, your argument about reinstating the festival is factually unsound.

In regard to the festival's use by Hitler, that history is fact. Your belief that a recitation of that history is "low" seems a reflexive reaction and not contemplative of its context. This thread is about comparing 2 games and one theme happens to have an ignoble history.

Last, festivals can be significant to cultures, dating back to Sumerian society. I just don't imagine that Oktoberfest will generate anything beyond a footnote to future generations. In contrast, cheeseburgers are culturally significant, especially in the western hemisphere. Everybody knows that. Oktoberfest ain't no cheeseburger.

#182 10 months ago
Quoted from branlon8:

In my view you are confusing the Beatles themselves with a Beatles merchandising product. With this argumentation you would have to rate anything offered with the Beatles name (lunchbox anybody?) higher than a similar product without the name. Let us not forget that this pin was not created by the Beatles, but by an organization which has nothing to do with Beatles other than they pay the Beatles money to use their name, images and music. If you like Stern’s interpretation then lovely, but in my view it doesn’t deserve higher ratings just because it’s a merchandising product of the Beatles. By the way, I’ve been to Oktoberfest 3 times and it’s pretty awesome. That’s not to say that I don’t worship the Beatles, which I do, but all the more reason I have no interest in the pin.

I have played both Octoberfest and The Beatles extensively. I like both games. My conclusion that The Beatles will fare better over time is based in part upon each game's design as well as each game's theme. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

It's challenging to offer a minority opinion on these Title A versus Title B threads. The majority predictably tries to dispossess the holder of his/her opinion, often by creating a strawman to easily knock down. I never claimed that my opinion was based on the band alone, to the exclusion of the merchandise.

Glad to hear that you regularly attend Oktoberfest. I suspect that your affection for the event means that you're fond of the machine. I have no desire to attend the festival; but, I do like the game.

-2
#183 10 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Das sieht nach einer verdammt guten Zeit aus - die Deutschen wissen sicher, wie man feiert!
Ich möchte ein Oktoberfest und ich möchte auch zum Festival gehen!!!
Zwei meiner Lieblings-Österreicher spielen einen meiner Lieblings-Beatles-Songs:

Props for your use of the Deutsch language. But you lost me when your video showed a bunch of talentless pretty Arian girls singing Beatles songs with the racist confederate battle flag in the background.

#184 10 months ago

Can we just agree that both games are substandard and close this out.

#185 10 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Props for your use of the Deutsch language. But you lost me when your video showed a bunch of talentless pretty Arian girls singing Beatles songs with the racist confederate battle flag in the background.

Talentless?! Apparently we disagree on more than just the quality of these two games.

#186 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:First, the gold edition of The Beatles is the good value version precisely because the platinum and diamond versions are saddled with an artificial price inflation. Specifically, all 3 versions are exactly the same game. The only differences are cosmetic in nature and those variations are minor, coupled with lower production numbers. Thus, there's nothing "funny" about that conclusion, unless you equate value with comedy.
As for the historical reference to a 24 year lapse in the festival, that lapse was not consecutive. Therefore, your argument about reinstating the festival is factually unsound.
In regard to the festival's use by Hitler, that history is fact. Your belief that a recitation of that history is "low" seems a reflexive reaction and not contemplative of its context. This thread is about comparing 2 games and one theme happens to have an ignoble history.
Last, festivals can be significant to cultures, dating back to Sumerian society. I just don't imagine that Oktoberfest will generate anything beyond a footnote to future generations. In contrast, cheeseburgers are culturally significant, especially in the western hemisphere. Everybody knows that. Oktoberfest ain't no cheeseburger.

I can't even respond to this? Hitler,hating the worlds largest festival, cheeseburgers more important, sumarians, ignoble history. Who talks like this? No one I hang out with. I dont know where to begin with this. The fact you drop the third reich and bussoms into the equation tells me you know nothing about it, its history, or nearly half of all pinball machines are sold overseas. Bubble world you live in.

#187 10 months ago

Oktoberfest is much better value than Beatles. I like both games but would only buy a Beatles if they dropped to 5k or less.

#188 10 months ago

I like the Beatles game as well but not for the price. Your paying for the licensing. I wonder if they sold even half of the 1,964? If they rethemed the rest of the games circa abbey road and added later music they would sell them easily.

#189 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

First, the gold edition of The Beatles is the good value version precisely because the platinum and diamond versions are saddled with an artificial price inflation. Specifically, all 3 versions are exactly the same game. The only differences are cosmetic in nature and those variations are minor, coupled with lower production numbers. Thus, there's nothing "funny" about that conclusion, unless you equate value with comedy.

The gold is only a "good value" as it relates to the other models, which or horrendously overpriced. It's a fun game for sure, but it's overpriced as shit.

-5
#190 10 months ago

The poll results are laughable...doubt AP even sold 300 Oktoberfests. I consider it to be a clunk fest with the left ramp off of upper flipper, impossible to hit consistently AND the corkscrew ramp (best feature) not utilized enough.
Beatles beats Okt like the little red headed step child that it is...

#191 10 months ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

I like the Beatles game as well but not for the price. Your paying for the licensing. I wonder if they sold even half of the 1,964? If they rethemed the rest of the games circa abbey road and added later music they would sell them easily.

I would wager even at ridiculous prices they sold more then Octoberfest. By no means does that make it a better game but it Does seem like those voting with their wallet chose Beatles?

#192 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I would wager even at ridiculous prices they sold more then Octoberfest. By no means does that make it a better game but it Does seem like those voting with their wallet chose Beatles?

I would bet that half of the Beatles buyers aren't even aware that Oktoberfest exists.

#193 10 months ago

I think Oktoberfest is a nice looking game with a great theme that just isn’t fun to play for whatever reason. I like beer, pretzels and schnitzel and have a rather large bar in the cave and just can’t get into it.

Beatles on the other hand keeps everyone hitting the start button over and over.

#194 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I would wager even at ridiculous prices they sold more then Octoberfest. By no means does that make it a better game but it Does seem like those voting with their wallet chose Beatles?

You are absolutely correct in that statement, however owners will loose their wallet when it comes time to sell in 8 years. Lots of them out there and no one wants them. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If anyone is looking for an investment...

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-2
#195 10 months ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

I can't even respond to this? Hitler,hating the worlds largest festival, cheeseburgers more important, sumarians, ignoble history. Who talks like this? No one I hang out with. I dont know where to begin with this.

Yet, somehow you managed to cobble together a string of several sentences in response. Good for you!

At the risk of creating a snarky dialogue, I didn't see the anti-literacy test when I joined Pinside. . .sorry for that oversight.

#196 10 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

First, the gold edition of The Beatles is the good value version precisely because the platinum and diamond versions are saddled with an artificial price inflation. Specifically, all 3 versions are exactly the same game. The only differences are cosmetic in nature and those variations are minor, coupled with lower production numbers. Thus, there's nothing "funny" about that conclusion, unless you equate value with comedy.
As for the historical reference to a 24 year lapse in the festival, that lapse was not consecutive. Therefore, your argument about reinstating the festival is factually unsound.
In regard to the festival's use by Hitler, that history is fact. Your belief that a recitation of that history is "low" seems a reflexive reaction and not contemplative of its context. This thread is about comparing 2 games and one theme happens to have an ignoble history.
Last, festivals can be significant to cultures, dating back to Sumerian society. I just don't imagine that Oktoberfest will generate anything beyond a footnote to future generations. In contrast, cheeseburgers are culturally significant, especially in the western hemisphere. Everybody knows that. Oktoberfest ain't no cheeseburger.

I'm guessing there's a good chance that some of the buildings the Beatles played in extensively in Hamburg where used by the Nazis too, who gives a fuck and what does it have to do with the theme? Nothing. This discussion has really gone down a rat-hole, like most on this forum.

#197 10 months ago

I have them both and they are both great in there in way.

2EFAB4BD-D8B6-465B-BA79-263B1CA3E6EB (resized).jpeg35A4F953-3CB3-43CB-82CE-0D7BC1AD820B (resized).jpeg7E255CA5-C763-4F06-B465-14E05DC127D3 (resized).jpeg
#198 10 months ago

Zeppelin will have to displace your claw game this year

#199 10 months ago

Beatles is 10X the theme, but Oktoberfest is 10X the game.

#200 10 months ago
Quoted from Budman:

Zeppelin will have to displace your claw game this year

I hope so. Hope it is quicksilver lay out

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