Quoted from kermit24:Monster Bash Remake LE
Fun
+
More Fun
=
$8,000
One of the least exciting games I’ve ever played. Can’t stand the theme either. I wouldn’t pay 5k for one so now you see how subjective this shit is.
(Topic ID: 231843)
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The Beatles (Gold Edition)
Stern, 2018
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Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:This is a weird thread.
I don't think I saw people bashing it because "it won't be fun". I think people were bashing the $8,000 price tag on a re-themed game.
It sure looks fun to me. I'd be glad to play it and I think I'd have a blast, but for $500 more I could buy a NIB JJP POTC.
This is the funny thing for me though, in a way that is hard to describe the Beatles is more fun than pirates and I have both so I’m able to say that.
You really think POTC CE is worth 12500? And the LE isn’t really an LE because there is no known limit to how many will be made.
Quoted from JY64:LOL after 20 yr still in top three games
Feeds right into my point though doesn’t it? Subjective and just because in top 3 doesn’t mean I need to enjoy it.
The two distro’s ive talked to several times over the couple weeks have insisted gold sales have exceeded expectation but platinum and diamond have not. This is the opposite of what your saying.
Back it up with pinside data on golds owned and operated and reported to be in collection. Last Wednesday 8-10 and this week up to 35 last I checked. So an increase of 25 in one week on pinside alone.
Small sample size as pinside is a small segment of community.
I’m not going to say they are flying of the shelf as they are pricey BUT I really don’t think they aren’t selling either.
Quoted from snaroff:Interesting, and kind of supports my earlier assertion about non-pinheads being happy with "Gold" as a collectible.
I believe Beatles Gold will be successful if Stern and their distributors can reach the target community (of non-pinhead Beatles fans). If Stern really wants to reward distributors, they will spend more marketing $$ to help sell more the games!
I admit Beatles Gold won't be played by me as much as my other games, but I'm still happy with the purchase and know my neighbors/visitors will enjoy it! Not every game needs to cater to me
snaroff
We had people over this past weekend for a party and Beatles and Star Wars were the most played games in my collection. My JJP Pirates only got a handful of games played. These guests were not pinheads. Theme is very important to the casual player.
There are only 2 pins in the top 10 on pinside I’m willing to pay 5k for.
Funny how silly and subjective this conversation is.
Do we all bitch about how a Tesla or Porsche are over priced and if they were 10k we’d all buy one? This perspective can be applied to all high end luxury items.
Buy or don’t buy it....who gives a shit! Whatever knocks your socks off, you only live once so enjoy it!
Quoted from TreyBo69:Considering how many games Stern is flooding the market with and no indication of slowing down production, I'm not worried about the few distributors that can afford to sit on meh stock for years at a time. Like the games you specifically point to, they never made a ton of them in the first place. They made 3-4x as many Beatles Gold. Beatles Gold will not be hard to find in 3-5 years. I'm probably wrong about it getting a substantial NIB discount, but I think you're drinking the Kool-Aide if you think the price will ever go above original MSRP.
Well I think your wrong with you math one more time.
Assuming all the naysayers and haters are correct and they won’t go past the first run of 1000. That means 50 diamond - 25 in US, 125 platinum - half in US and 850 gold of which 425 are for the US market.
Half of the first run is going over seas, they are on the record saying that.
If they don’t make more, that doesn’t leave many in the US and will be a very small second hand market. This will keep prices high, simple supply and demand.
I personally think all 1964 will be made for what it’s worth.
Quoted from Whysnow:this is a PRO model. They will sell for what PRO models do of all other games in the secondary market.
Sorry, but that is just the reality of this over inflated "limited" gold on a hype license.
I was told they are obligated to make all 1614 of the gold editions so anyone thinking that these are ever going to be limited is mistaken.
Those are likely the same people that still believe 50% of every title goes overseas.
Don’t recall anyone saying 50% off all games mfg go overseas but I do recall Joe K stating that part of this lincensing deal with the parties involved did require that.
Quoted from jwilson:It's weird that the definition for "stripped down" on Pinside is "No ramps".
This game has three(!) drop target banks, three flippers, a spinning disc, a magnet and a spinner. Plus the usual 3-bank of pops. It has more shit than most Sterns. But somehow it's a "chopped down cash grab" because it doesn't have $5 worth of plastic ramps.
[quoted image]
Two corrections but I agree with your point!
4 flippers and two spinners.
It’s missing all the POS plastic crane machine toys that Stern puts in their games.
Quoted from pinmister:I was talking to O-din yesterday and telling him how much I actually liked the Beatles and he had a great idea. His thought was to switch out the upper left flipper with a 2" flipper instead of standard. The standard flipper is too big and too powerful for the drops located 4" away. I thought it was a great idea and someone should try it out.
No need to switch flippers just adjust upper flipper power to soft. This is the reason for that setting. Even on soft plenty of power to get the ball flying around the loop and definitely softens the blow to the drops at point blank range.
The airball shield over those drops really helps as well.
I’ve made a lexan protector like posted above and it’s playing perfect with the soft settings.
Quoted from pinmister:Not so much power but size as well. A 2" may accommodate the layout more?
I have a couple hundred plays on mine and haven’t had any difficulty making any of the shots off either upper flipper, just don’t really see what you gain if all shots are repeatable as is.
You can fire the ball off left flipper through left spinner easily, into the pops, off the drops, deflect/pass to right side.
1 week later
Quoted from Tranquilize:Clearly mechs cost a good chunk of cash; otherwise, stern wouldn’t be so skimpy with them. If JJP can produce games with as many mechs as potc at a similar price point, we can logically conclude that stern is bending the customer over. This doesn’t even include r&d expenses that JJP had to incur. Beatlewitch, while clearly fun, is flat-out over-priced. Just because something is fun, does not mean it’s automatically good value for the dollar market wise. Hey, my Jeep is fun to drive. Please pay my humv pricing.
- see name to the left
JJP did cheap out on licensing with POTC. No music,no video and no still images of actual actors. If they did this price would have been even more ridiculous but at least would have a bunch of rubber and plastic toys. I can say this because I own it. Stern does do a good job when it comes to licensing and using the assets in my opinion.
They typically do, but it the case of Beattles they really crapped the bed. The clipped too short songs and limited number of songs is REALLY BAD. It is obvious they skimped on the licensing and went for just good enough rather than really trying to hit it on the head.
I hear what your saying but how many songs constitutes a good game?
These are all 2 minute songs full length so they got 40-50% of most of them and two pretty much full length. There is a setting to allow the modes to play the song longer as well, default is 30-35 seconds. I think it can be set to 50 seconds.It’s hard to build a game that is perfect and I know the JJP fans praise the shit out of POTC and it is a good game BUT it is hard to ignore the fact they didn’t get the theme song or any video or actual actor photos. It wasn’t because they couldn’t, it was the price of license and they chose not to go that route.
Quoted from rai:NIN
I have not played Beatles but it looks like $5995 worth of fun (included $$$ for the lisence).
I’ve said since day 1 that $6500 shipped probably would have been the sweet spot for a gold. I paid $7599 shipped.
There is no doubt more to this license than the standard title. Joe even said they had to pay to use Ludwig, Rickenbacker, Hofner, PanAm,JFK airport and all the other authentic branding that is integrated into art and video along with Brucie and Ed callouts.
Quoted from rai:I didn’t think you’d have to pay to use JFK airport but I don’t know. Do you think AFM had to pay to say Brandenburg gate or Effile tower?
Honestly not sure but does it really surprise you?
Quoted from Hazoff:Most non pinball people and those who enjoy to play aswell think that about all of pinball pricing and I'm not talking just recently either. Also those who spent big money on the Beatles probably aren't selling anytime soon if ever. If this was lets say Slayer or Motorhead, Sabbath or Priest I would have payed and loved it and be keeping for the rest of my life.
Good point and I posted this in another thread.
8k is 8k and it doesn’t matter if it’s a Beatles, Metallica LE, JJP Standard, Cgc remake etc... if it’s fun and you enjoy it then take the title/theme out and 8k is 8k. Your spending 8k on some pinball machine either way so you have the money, who gives a shit what theme it is.
Happy is key here!
Quoted from Tranquilize:I generally agree, but I think most pinheads consider resale as an important factor. If not, 8k is 8k. Otherwise, we'll see what the market does with beatlewitch.
I hear ya and I care about resale to a certain extent.
Too early to say anything about resale on Beatles only been two so far and went very quick at full price.
If the speculators are correct and they don’t make the second run next year because of poor sales, this will only further help resale as all will be more rare.
The way they announced two separate runs makes me think that there may have been a contingency plan in the event of poor sales. Have they ever done that before?
Only time will tell!
Quoted from Whysnow:The announcement of two distinct runs appears to have been another failed attempt of "better hurry up".
They wanted people to really have the sense that they better jump in quick to ensure they were able to get from the first thousand. Same thing with having all the distributors on here the first week talking about 50% going overseas and these are super rare and...
All seems to have been marketing.
I unders
It wasn’t the distros saying a large number were going overseas. If I’m not mistaken Joe K said it was part of the licensing agreement during one of the podcasts.
What incentive would they have to retool the line 6-8 months from now and make another 964 if the first 1000 aren’t selling?
If your right maybe these will be more rare than originally intended.
Maybe the high asking price was a built-in insurance to mitigate risk?
Nobody knows except Stern and Kapow. Lots of speculation and zero facts.
Quoted from usandthem:Not trying to sound like a smart-ass, but where are your "facts" and lack of speculation that the two Beatles pins that have sold on Pinside have sold for their asking price as mentioned in another thread?
The owner of the gold posted it in one of the 6 Beatles threads and the diamond/platinum the owner posted about as well because the price police were ragging on him.
Send them a PM, I’m sure they would be willing to disclose the prices.
Quoted from Whysnow:The announcement of two distinct runs appears to have been another failed attempt of "better hurry up".
They wanted people to really have the sense that they better jump in quick to ensure they were able to get from the first thousand. Same thing with having all the distributors on here the first week talking about 50% going overseas and these are super rare and...
All seems to have been marketing.
I undertand the concern over resale and thought that if they don't d the second run it could help your resale, but I think the hard reality is that if they are not selling at 8000 now, that you are not going to be selling them for 8000 later. If they made 800 golds and distributors are sitting on 400 pf them already unsold, then that is a ton of stock.
The price up front is really the whole thing holding this game back and the seconday market will likely reflect that. 6000 seems to be where most people that buy NIB would be interested in grabbing one.
Just based on comments here and talking with local collectors that have said that is their magic number.
I personally would likely buy at 6500 and be confortable selling for 5500 a year later.
Hard to follow this rationale. If dealers are sitting on 400 golds as you say. That means there are only 400 privately owned golds in the world. Hard to imagine much of a secondary market off of 400 or so machines. Supply and demand sets the market in this case maybe a couple hundred below NIB and maybe at the rate of one resell every 6-8 weeks or more.
Quoted from usandthem:Cool
Cool. Thanks. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a pin consumer and not a producer. Therefore, I'm interested in pins being as inexpensive as humanly possible. Why does it seem like you are cheerleading Beatles being as expensive as possible?
I said on day one that i felt $6500 was the sweet spot for the gold edition. I wish it was but unfortunately it isn’t. I accept this game at this price over many many other games of equal price. I guess I’m an idiot.
I’m not cheerleading the high price,just really happy with the game and am enjoying it. In fact I’m enjoying it more than my potc, it’s just pure simple old school fun and there isn’t anything wrong with that.
Quoted from usandthem:Fair enough and upvoted. With that being said, do you harbor any disappointment whatsoever that the game is "old school" instead a modern pin? While it may be fun, is it AS fun as a more modern game? Also, do you think they picked the right Beatles era? Most Beatles fans that I know think that the true greatness of the Beatles began during the Rubber Soul/Revolver era, but really began peaking with Sgt Pepper.
Two good questions.
First the gameplay perspective. There is something very addicting to the easy to understand game. Your able to advance well into the game giving you the perception your going to beat it but then it kicks your ass with short ball times. End result you keep hitting the start button! I don’t get this same feeling with POTC, LOTR, Hobbit etc... I do have fun playing those games but it’s different.
As for the Beatles aspect. I get what they did here with Beatlemania and when they came to US. The songs fit because this was what they played on Ed Sullivan and were the hits on tour in 64/65.
As a Beatles Fan Rubber Soul to Abbey Road was quite a run of good albums and perhaps if they did a sgt pepper machine a more modern layout would be pretty cool to have sitting next to the old school machine.
Quoted from rai:So in the long run The Beatles is probably fine. What I’m saying is 20 years from now it’ll be nice that games like WNBJM, The Beatles, AMH, Houdini, Alien, RZ ... name a dozen games that may not have sold exceptionally well. But they’ll be part of the pinball fabric and not everyone will like them but they will bring something to pinball landscape. They’ll be something off to the side of mainstream pinball. Of course we’ll say ST or AcDc or SM or Woz or LotR will be more complete pins or more representing of a good use of a lisense than the Beatles and of course maybe there will be 10x more of these mainstream pins.
I’m sure something went into Stern’s calculators that they might not have wanted to sell 5K Beatles pins like AcDc maybe they were happy to sell 1K pins if they do but hedged their bets by saying they would make 1964 pins (which imo is not likely). Maybe even a flop of sales will be ok for Stern. I think Stern figured they’d sell at least 1000 or at least distributors would buy that many especially with the Diamond and platinum attached. I’d say the golds are probably a hard sell but some people who may not be hard core pinball people will buy them. I mean people who just want something for a gamer room to go with a pool table and a foosball table might say The Beatles looks like a good pinball machine. Maybe they won’t even know or care about the rules. Maybe they would look at LotR or TWD and not know the foggiest thing about how great the code is and maybe they’d prefer something more basic.
In summary The Beatles was probably not designed for Pinside folk. I’m sure some will be sold to people on Pinside but it’s not Iron Maiden (etc..) with people fighting over the 500 LEs. It’s just good enough (I mean it’s not like they made a Costco Batman). It’s a proper pin with adjustments and full weight and can be serviced like any normal pin. The price is higher than a comparable pro level pin like Kiss or Aerosmith it’s priced like a premium plus or LE so that’s why people are outraged for what they provide it seems weak. But overall rich folks don’t sweat if it’s $6K or $8K that’s not really a big deal if you want the theme that’s all they choice you have.
It’s no less for Pinball folk than SeaWitch from a players perspective and more fun than TNA in my opinion which is 6k+.
Quoted from Azmodeus:I had a chance to play several games at ayci Gogi on the Beatles a couple days ago.
Which is a great place to play pins.
My impressions:
Everyone seemed to enjoy the game. It looks good. Shiny.
It's a sea witch General Remake. I don't like that really, but I am not the typical target buyer. I am the typical target player, sort of.
So I'm not buying it, but I enjoy it in a lineup.
(I'm not big on rethemes a but I desire a vault tron. If you retheme a tron for me I would be in that quickly.
Different I guess.)
I also had another thought when someone asked about why there is no sgt peppers. Or anything like that.
There will be, IMO. My thought was, this is probably just the first Beatles pin we are going to see.
There will probably be atleast two. Just my opinion, we will see.
I hope your right about multiple editions, would be pretty cool.
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