Clearly mechs cost a good chunk of cash; otherwise, stern wouldn’t be so skimpy with them. If JJP can produce games with as many mechs as potc at a similar price point, we can logically conclude that stern is bending the customer over. This doesn’t even include r&d expenses that JJP had to incur. Beatlewitch, while clearly fun, is flat-out over-priced. Just because something is fun, does not mean it’s automatically good value for the dollar market wise. Hey, my Jeep is fun to drive. Please pay my humv pricing.

- see name to the left

I played beetles numerous times and it’s a much better game then Iron Maiden or Deadpool in my option a lot more fun

omg...now car pricing analogies? If cars were all priced based on BOM's, the spread between cars wouldn't be so dramatic. My Honda Civic Sport Touring has as much tech as cars that cost nearly double. People pay lots of money for labels/status...that's life.

Expensive BOM's don't necessarily make great games. Just to be clear...I don't think The Beatles is a ground breaking game. I think it's a fun, well-executed effort combining retro design with new tech. Other than having no ramps, the BOM is what you'd expect from Stern.

snaroff

Did you buy one D?

JJP did cheap out on licensing with POTC. No music,no video and no still images of actual actors. If they did this price would have been even more ridiculous but at least would have a bunch of rubber and plastic toys. I can say this because I own it. Stern does do a good job when it comes to licensing and using the assets in my opinion.

No but I was totally surprised how much fun it is

They typically do, but it the case of Beattles they really crapped the bed. The clipped too short songs and limited number of songs is REALLY BAD. It is obvious they skimped on the licensing and went for just good enough rather than really trying to hit it on the head.

I agree, fun to shoot on route, but also telling that you did not get one.

I will say I am even amazed at how bad sales appear.
It makes me wonder what happens down the road with so many distributors sitting on stock?

Will Stern allow them to drop prices? What can current owners expect from their distributors, if anything, if they drop well below current MSRP to get overstock sold?

I guess we saw something similar with WWE, but I get the impression there are way more Beatles in over stock than WWE even built.

NIN

I have not played Beatles but it looks like $5995 worth of fun.

I’d rather listen to TNA new music which fits the machine and goes with the gameplay rather than old ‘Love me do’ etc...

I do like the Beatles but only their rock or experimental songs.

They typically do, but it the case of Beattles they really crapped the bed. The clipped too short songs and limited number of songs is REALLY BAD. It is obvious they skimped on the licensing and went for just good enough rather than really trying to hit it on the head.

I hear what your saying but how many songs constitutes a good game?
These are all 2 minute songs full length so they got 40-50% of most of them and two pretty much full length. There is a setting to allow the modes to play the song longer as well, default is 30-35 seconds. I think it can be set to 50 seconds.

It’s hard to build a game that is perfect and I know the JJP fans praise the shit out of POTC and it is a good game BUT it is hard to ignore the fact they didn’t get the theme song or any video or actual actor photos. It wasn’t because they couldn’t, it was the price of license and they chose not to go that route.

I’ve said since day 1 that $6500 shipped probably would have been the sweet spot for a gold. I paid $7599 shipped.

There is no doubt more to this license than the standard title. Joe even said they had to pay to use Ludwig, Rickenbacker, Hofner, PanAm,JFK airport and all the other authentic branding that is integrated into art and video along with Brucie and Ed callouts.

Typo

I didn’t think you’d have to pay to use JFK airport but I don’t know. Do you think AFM had to pay to say Brandenburg gate or Effile tower?

There is the crux. Distributors are sitting with unsold Gold editions with even more Boxes of Beatles sitting at Stern. Stern is trying to get dealers to buy these, but It seems there is not much demand. End Customers who want the games have bought them - at least at the inflated pricing level. I have no doubt it's a fun game but the pricing is what has hurt sales a bunch. There will be a lot of unsold stock sitting at the factory. Distributors have bought what they want and have left over Gold Editions that will take a long time to sell. The Diamond and Platinum carrots dealers have taken their profit on, but then minus a a couple Golds, they are sitting with more than enough Gold Editions to sell. Thus, I don't think Stern will be moving much more out of the factory, 10 pack or individual Golds. Most of the limited demand has been met - the pricing is a big issue. Those who are inclined to buy at the inflated levels have done so already.

How funny> some of you can't even spell the name of the band!!!:)BEATLES>still looks like a little girls lunch box from the sixties!Not bashing here,was looking forward to this pin for 3 years since JT told me about it at PAGG! Since then they have changed the pf since JT is no longer popular! It was to be a multi layer pf with Strawberry fields in the upper deck,accessed through Penny lane,and ending up in the Magical Mystery Tour! The pin you see now doesn't represent the Band well,IMHO!!!!

So when you spoke to a child molester you got secret inside info on a game that wasn't approved or anything like what the licensor wanted the game to be. It all makes sense now.

Good lord, see if you can find some other places you can post this.

‘JT is no longer popular’

That’s one way to say it.

I nominate hawkmoon for understatement of the year! "JT is no longer popular."

Honestly not sure but does it really surprise you?

Yes, it is no secret that JT was on this game and it was his dream theme. He spoke in depth about some of his design to sme people. It would have been a dramatically different game.

Actually all that was ever really stated was that he dreamed of doing The Beatles and had several different mock playfield designs from tinkering over the years. Nothing ever came from stern hinting that he ever worked on this pin for them. In fact you were claiming it was Deadpool that Gomez took over and finished for him as did many other people. I highly doubt that stern intended this to be as modern game and just scrapped everything and went retro. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

JT talked to people about doing a Beatles pin for years before stern ever had the license. He even had a presentation that included a bunch of his ideas several years ago. That doesn't mean he was working one for stern.

Pad Day Monsanto pinball

My car analogy was fine while yours was not. You also left out R&D. Beatlewitch needed little to no pf development. I also said that the game is likely very fun as sea witch is a fun game. Beatlewitch just isn't worth the asking price considering mechs, toys and R&D. Sales are reflecting this. I'm sure Stern could make a fun game with one flipper and no other solenoids, but I doubt many would pay much for it. Beatles were a great band, but they're at the end of their business cycle. If the license is still crazy expensive, it's simply not worth it. Jjpotc may not be fun to some, but clearly they kill it on value for your dollar on all fronts, especially R&D.

Please stop arguing with me (or trying to convince me). I DON"T SET THE PRICES. I'm sorry you are offended by Stern's pricing on this game. I AM NOT.

Lol. You replied to my comment, and when I reply to yours, I'm harassing you?

RUSH please!!!

I played it and liked it more than I thought I would. Won a few free games and spent some time it. I could not hear the music and that fine, who hasn’t heard the songs... anyways

I think the top left flipper could go. The drops in front of it can be hit with both the lower flippers. The loops are pretty fun with the upper right flipper.

Kind of makes me want a seawitch

Aww hell yeah. I regret I can only thumbs up once.

Beatles are great, granted, I mean, they are icons of music; it’s the earning power longer term. Everything is great when it’s shiny and pinball new.

Most non pinball people and those who enjoy to play aswell think that about all of pinball pricing and I'm not talking just recently either. Also those who spent big money on the Beatles probably aren't selling anytime soon if ever. If this was lets say Slayer or Motorhead, Sabbath or Priest I would have payed and loved it and be keeping for the rest of my life.

Good point and I posted this in another thread.
8k is 8k and it doesn’t matter if it’s a Beatles, Metallica LE, JJP Standard, Cgc remake etc... if it’s fun and you enjoy it then take the title/theme out and 8k is 8k. Your spending 8k on some pinball machine either way so you have the money, who gives a shit what theme it is.

Happy is key here!

I generally agree, but I think most pinheads consider resale as an important factor. If not, 8k is 8k. Otherwise, we'll see what the market does with beatlewitch.

I hear ya and I care about resale to a certain extent.

Too early to say anything about resale on Beatles only been two so far and went very quick at full price.

If the speculators are correct and they don’t make the second run next year because of poor sales, this will only further help resale as all will be more rare.

The way they announced two separate runs makes me think that there may have been a contingency plan in the event of poor sales. Have they ever done that before?
Only time will tell!

I have not played Beatles yet, but I love and have a seawitch...seems unlikely I’d bore of Beatles.

As an aside, please do not post the same thing in multiple threads as that is cross posting and against the rules. I don’t plan to issue you a moderation for this at this time but another moderator may find them and decide to do so. Just a heads up.

The announcement of two distinct runs appears to have been another failed attempt of "better hurry up".

They wanted people to really have the sense that they better jump in quick to ensure they were able to get from the first thousand. Same thing with having all the distributors on here the first week talking about 50% going overseas and these are super rare and...

All seems to have been marketing.

I unders

It wasn’t the distros saying a large number were going overseas. If I’m not mistaken Joe K said it was part of the licensing agreement during one of the podcasts.
What incentive would they have to retool the line 6-8 months from now and make another 964 if the first 1000 aren’t selling?
If your right maybe these will be more rare than originally intended.
Maybe the high asking price was a built-in insurance to mitigate risk?
Nobody knows except Stern and Kapow. Lots of speculation and zero facts.

The announcement of two distinct runs appears to have been another failed attempt of "better hurry up".

They wanted people to really have the sense that they better jump in quick to ensure they were able to get from the first thousand. Same thing with having all the distributors on here the first week talking about 50% going overseas and these are super rare and...

All seems to have been marketing.

I undertand the concern over resale and thought that if they don't d the second run it could help your resale, but I think the hard reality is that if they are not selling at 8000 now, that you are not going to be selling them for 8000 later. If they made 800 golds and distributors are sitting on 400 pf them already unsold, then that is a ton of stock.

The price up front is really the whole thing holding this game back and the seconday market will likely reflect that. 6000 seems to be where most people that buy NIB would be interested in grabbing one.
Just based on comments here and talking with local collectors that have said that is their magic number.

I personally would likely buy at 6500 and be confortable selling for 5500 a year later.

Sorry for cut post, pinside kept erroring

Not trying to sound like a smart-ass, but where are your "facts" and lack of speculation that the two Beatles pins that have sold on Pinside have sold for their asking price as mentioned in another thread?

The owner of the gold posted it in one of the 6 Beatles threads and the diamond/platinum the owner posted about as well because the price police were ragging on him.

Send them a PM, I’m sure they would be willing to disclose the prices.

Hard to follow this rationale. If dealers are sitting on 400 golds as you say. That means there are only 400 privately owned golds in the world. Hard to imagine much of a secondary market off of 400 or so machines. Supply and demand sets the market in this case maybe a couple hundred below NIB and maybe at the rate of one resell every 6-8 weeks or more.

Cool. Thanks. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a pin consumer and not a producer. Therefore, I'm interested in pins being as inexpensive as humanly possible. Why does it seem like you are cheerleading Beatles being as expensive as possible?

I would doubt that a second run is going to get made at these prices even though $8k is just the stated price, not the real one.

Maybe they are required by contract to make them all? Who knows.

It's certainly why Stern has delayed announcing Munsters for as long as they possibly can.

Most people are holding their dry powder for that game and others coming down the road.

Stern wins either way.

I said on day one that i felt $6500 was the sweet spot for the gold edition. I wish it was but unfortunately it isn’t. I accept this game at this price over many many other games of equal price. I guess I’m an idiot.
I’m not cheerleading the high price,just really happy with the game and am enjoying it. In fact I’m enjoying it more than my potc, it’s just pure simple old school fun and there isn’t anything wrong with that.

Fair enough and upvoted. With that being said, do you harbor any disappointment whatsoever that the game is "old school" instead a modern pin? While it may be fun, is it AS fun as a more modern game? Also, do you think they picked the right Beatles era? Most Beatles fans that I know think that the true greatness of the Beatles began during the Rubber Soul/Revolver era, but really began peaking with Sgt Pepper.

I would disagree.

Beatles is what Beatles is. It’s the. Beatles. If you want a Beatles game, it’s your best option.

I’ve only played it a few times but my estimation is a single level, 4 flipper game isn’t so hot in 2019 with the juiced up modern mechs and flippers.

Im bad with first impressions but I certainly don’t think it’s anywhere near as good as maiden or DP.

Why would someone buy a game they are disappointed in? Why would someone buy and old school game if they think they are not as fun as other games available?

You underestimate the stubborn nature of modern monied pin collectors.

They aren’t going to sell an $8000 game got $6000. They just won’t do it. Would rather burn the games.

Two good questions.

First the gameplay perspective. There is something very addicting to the easy to understand game. Your able to advance well into the game giving you the perception your going to beat it but then it kicks your ass with short ball times. End result you keep hitting the start button! I don’t get this same feeling with POTC, LOTR, Hobbit etc... I do have fun playing those games but it’s different.

As for the Beatles aspect. I get what they did here with Beatlemania and when they came to US. The songs fit because this was what they played on Ed Sullivan and were the hits on tour in 64/65.
As a Beatles Fan Rubber Soul to Abbey Road was quite a run of good albums and perhaps if they did a sgt pepper machine a more modern layout would be pretty cool to have sitting next to the old school machine.

Both games sold at a discount.
The gold for 100 under
The diamond for thousands less than what they sell on primary.

That is the entire rationale, the demand is super low at 8k. It is not going to be better on a used game and nobody is only going to take one for a fewhundred less when they could go buy one of the many still NIB.

I agree, at this point I don't think the secnd run gets made. At least not in Jan or Feb like they originally said. I could see them running more later in the year if distibutors are allowed to drop prices. there is incentive to get them all made even if it means dropping the price. All the costs are done at this point, better off to sell them all for less profit, sp when they need a line filler. I could also see this being the new reskin like WNBJM since they will have lots of parts left over. This of course also undermines any collectability snce there is bound to be other themes that will appeal to others, or better art, or hell they may even do a yellow sub verion, or white album. You just never onow with Stern and they will eventually erode all faith in coll ctability since they will rerun anything.

Sure they will. Space matters more than money. Just like 8k is a dropn the bucket to many, a 2k loss on a resale after you owned a game for a year is nothing for many also.

Anyone stupid enough to have that mentality sure gained their riches through privilege and winning the genetic lottery than through hard work alone.