(Topic ID: 248653)

BeachTime@ Score feature?


By JKnPA

16 days ago



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  • 26 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 hours ago by bingopodcast
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    #1 16 days ago

    I smoked my 'Score feature lockout' coil. It is getting powered at the start of the game.
    I think it should only get powered 'ON' after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th ball. I believe the machine worked correctly
    before.......not sure, since I only played it a few times before. Working on other Bingos.
    I think its getting powered thru the two Shutter switches down thru the circuit diagrams I have included.
    That is not correct , is it ?
    I thought it would be first powered ON when the Timer Unit got to step 3 and came thru the Timer Stepper
    contacts.
    Can you tell me the correct operation of this 'Score feature' operation.?
    I verified the other paths to the coil are not the problem. The shutter switches are N/C contacts.
    Should they be closed before the first ball is shot?

    ScreenHunter_157 Aug. 03 07.19 (resized).jpgScreenHunter_158 Aug. 03 07.19 (resized).jpg
    #2 16 days ago

    Another important point.
    The RED button does not Reset the Game and Open the shutter.

    #3 15 days ago

    Couple questions: is your timer reset? Is your score feature disc reset? Try resetting those manually then trying to start a new game.

    #4 15 days ago

    Yes...... the Timer resets when I start a new game; but I have to remove the balls from the playfield
    because the shutter doesn't Open.
    I set the Score Feature Unit to Zero by hand; I think it does reset when I start a new game.
    note...... Red button doesn't reset the Game. I toggle the Coin Sw. by hand to try to get a Reset.
    I have the Anti-cheat Sw. shimmed ON, and put Games on the Credit Counter.
    The Score feature coil was 'smoked because the 50V. stayed on it at the start of the game. I think it should be Pulsed after the 3rd. Ball is shot.

    #5 14 days ago

    Things are pretty hectic right now, sorry for the delay, but score feature is a trip relay, correct? If so, check the hold switch on the relay and make sure it changes state.

    If shutter doesn't open, is red button relay engaging on initial start relay pulse?

    #6 14 days ago

    1. Is the 'hold switch' the switch nearest the relay on the schematic? If so, it does actuate. as do all the switches on the 'Score Feature' trip assy.
    @ I didn't realize this switch Opens when the relay is actuated.
    2. I just realized this relay must be energized when the RED Button is pressed to reset the Game.
    @ Ref: Switch at E6.
    3. Main issue...... I'm not sure how this 'Score feature' works! Can you explain its function?
    I assume it lets you change the 'scoring odds' after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th ball is shot.
    Is that correct?
    4. Timer Unit.... having problems getting the 'Before 4th." , and 'Before 5th" relays to energize.
    Not sure the Timer is stepping Up properly after the 3rd. step.
    @ Stepper moves properly when manually actuated.
    5. Yellow Button..... Extra Balls not actuated; I think this issue is because of 'Before 5th" relay
    not energizing.
    **** Can you address #3 .....the Main Issue first!
    Thanks

    #7 13 days ago
    Quoted from JKnPA:

    3. Main issue...... I'm not sure how this 'Score feature' works! Can you explain its function?
    I assume it lets you change the 'scoring odds' after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th ball is shot.
    Is that correct?

    Yes. It allows you to put in more money at the time when the feature flashes on the backglass. It plays only for odds. If you start a game and have a good one going but your odds aren't high enough, you can feed it to get better ones, theoretically. Typically, the feature doesn't enable until your odds are relatively high, so for me, the stop and shop feature is a bit of a waste - but I could see how it could vacuum a few more nickels out of people.

    #8 13 days ago

    When does the 'score feature lockout' relay get energized? Is it at the start of the game as I
    show it in Post#1 ? That doesn't seem right to me.
    I thought it would be when the Timer is on step 3 thru Timer Unit contacts 57-7 and 60-6.
    Ref: B12

    #9 13 days ago
    Quoted from JKnPA:

    When does the 'score feature lockout' relay get energized? Is it at the start of the game as I
    show it in Post#1 ? That doesn't seem right to me.

    It will be after the timer unit steps beyond the step where you'd expect, so step 4 if before 3rd. Not at game start.

    #10 13 days ago

    What about the path I showed in Post#1 from #65-2 thru Score Feature unit( its closed from 0-3)
    thru the N/C switch to the relay.
    It looks like the relay is getting energized thru this path. If not, what is the purpose of this circuit
    stated above?
    Appreciate your help.

    #11 13 days ago

    It locks it out right away - the relay is a trip relay, and the NC switch is the signal that the relay has not tripped. Unlike a hold switch on a momentary relay, which continuously provides power until another factor shuts it off.

    If the score feature unit is below the fourth step, the feature isn't available, so it locks it out right away.

    But as soon as it trips, the path is no longer active.

    #12 13 days ago

    It locks it out right away - the relay is a trip relay It locks it out right away - the relay is a trip relay
    ****************************************************************************
    Then it does Energize when the shutter closes with the first ball ????? Then it locks ON!
    How does it get Energized after ball #3 ,4, or 5.
    I still don't see it.........what am I missing!

    #13 13 days ago

    It depends on the position of that score feature. If above step 4, then it follows the second path, and will trip when the timer hits a particular position.

    If below step four, it trips immediately, and the NC switch should open preventing the coil from frying.

    Check that switch over carefully.

    #14 12 days ago

    If the 'Score Feature' Unit is at 0 ( start of new game), or less than 4; then this circuit is correct
    and the 'Score feature lockout' relay will energize. Is that correct ?
    If so, then the Bingo seems to be operating correctly.
    To get the Score Feature or what they call the 'Stop & Shop' feature to function I have to hit the Red Button
    and use credits to Enable this feature. Is that correct?
    **** Like I said, I didn't know how this feature works and the manual didn't explain it.
    At some point though the relay must energize, or the Bingo will not Reset......Yes !

    ScreenHunter_162 Aug. 06 17.13 (resized).jpg
    #15 9 days ago

    Update......
    Timer unit...... There were several jumpers added to terminals on this unit. After checking
    continuity to the 'E' wiper rivet contacts, they were not really necessary; so
    I have no idea why they were added. I removed them.
    @ Unable to get the Timer to step 5, so relay 'before 5th' is not getting energized.
    Relay Trip Assembly....... Someone worked on this unit before me, because I see tape on some of the wires on the harness. What I don't understand is why Sw. assy R4 and R5 were on the 'Before 4th Select Lock assy. They should be on the 'Before 5th select lock' assy. The wires were cut to fit the 4th
    assy. not the 5th. They must have come out of the factory that way, because I had to lengthen the wires
    to reach the lower 5th assy. Now I can power on my 'Extra balls', if I get that far.
    ***** Any help getting the Timer to step 5 would be appreciated. I'm not certain what electrical
    circuit does that.

    '

    #16 6 days ago

    How do I get to step 5 on the Timer ?
    See attachment.....

    ScreenHunter_167 Aug. 13 13.24 (resized).jpg
    #17 6 days ago

    Before fourth selector lock relay has to trip and that one switch you've circled has to be making.

    Everything else is the same for every other step.

    #18 6 days ago

    Does the Timer move to step 5 after the relay trips thru that switch, or does the Timer move to step
    5 first, then the relay trips.
    Maybe there is a 'race condition' between the relay closing and the Timer stepping Up.

    #19 6 days ago

    Could be! The timer only steps when switch 2A is closed on the lifter. But the relay has to trip first.

    #20 6 days ago

    Just to be clear on getting the Timer to step5.
    Is the circuit shown in Post#16 the correct path to move the Timer to Pos. 5.
    I just want to verify I am working on the correct circuit for this problem.
    Thanks

    #22 5 days ago

    Ok.......... that makes sense from what I see in my attachment in Post#16.
    I checked continuity from the Timer wire#36-2 to the Ball Lifter sw.2A.
    The circuit to the right thru Relay 'Before 5' is ok because if I manually close that relay the
    Timer will step-up until the Timer hits its upper stops and the game is over.
    *** I checked all the Wipers and there rivet contacts....... I don't see anything wrong.
    I will keep looking....

    #23 1 day ago

    Update.......
    The problem has been the 'Ball lifter' cam does not always make the complete revolution
    and fall into the cam detent. The Switch 1A is not closed unless the Cam is sitting in that
    detent. That switch must be closed to complete the circuit in the attachment; that circuit
    energizes the 'before 5th Ball' relay and the 'after 5th ball' relay.
    ***** How do I make the Ball lifter adjustment to insure proper operation of this Cam that controls
    switches 1A and 1B. ?
    What is the function of the spring that is attached to the Ball lifter horizontal adj. bar.
    I don't see any reference and how to make this critical adjustment.

    ScreenHunter_170 Aug. 18 15.40 (resized).jpg
    #24 23 hours ago

    Well, first, why isn't the motor making a full rotation of the cams? With the game off, can you manually lift a ball easily by pushing the bar on the right side of the lift? (Don't get your fingers caught).

    If not, then the lift needs to be adjusted to allow the ball to drop properly. If it does, then you have a problem with the hold switch for the motor on the motor cam. Not enough current is flowing through.

    #25 22 hours ago

    There is NO Mechanical binding.
    I adjusted the gap on both the 1A and 1B switches many times. If it is a simple adjust, then I'm having trouble getting it right.
    The cam itself looks ok, but maybe there is some issue with it...... can't tell.
    I was wondering if there is too much drag on the cam as it rotates; thus not getting entirely to the
    notch position. that is why I asked about the spring.
    If I lift the playfield, should it just make one revolution and stop with the power On? If it keeps lifting
    Balls, does that mean Sw. 1B is mis-adjusted ?
    **** Sw. 1b is the 'Carry-over' switch. *****

    #26 20 hours ago

    If it keeps lifting, that is because the playfield is lifted and the lane switch is not being pressed.

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