BDK - Would Mr Lyman return in his own time to over look again?

(Topic ID: 60409)

BDK - Would Mr Lyman return in his own time to over look again?


By Squizz

5 years ago



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  • 46 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by John1210
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

As Was posted over a year ago by Pinballcorpse:
Quote

BDK is a fun game. I think it suffered at the beginning from the incomplete basic code and no wizard mode coded yet trend Stern was on at the time. Lyman deserves a lot of credit for coming back to the game well after the fact to make it, as he says, "more fun."

The front end candy enjoyment in BDK revolves around the crane, I think that is obvious to everyone. So the key to enjoying BDK is to stack the crane with as much as you can. The 3rd wave of the crane is a blast! The crane can be stacked with Joker multiball of course but you must start crane first then Joker multiball. The crane can also be used with Batpod multiball and can be stacked with the miniwizard mode Bat Signal multiball. You can triple stack the multiballs if you like (Scarecrow, Joker, Batpod)

The key to scoring big in BDK is the multipliers. At the beginning of the game you can go for basic 2x scoring feature, or live it up and try for the 3x scoring feature by holding in your left flipper. On top of that you have the playfield multipliers worth 2x per lit shot and then the roving 3x shot.

The Gotham City wizard mode did not exist in the early coding. It was an award of 100MIL, and that's it. Nothing else, sorry, thanks for working this hard, see you later. It is now present and the wizard mode is enjoyable and has goals that need to be accomplished. Massive improvement. Again, thanks to Lyman.

One weakness in BDK is the inordinate amount of shots needed to finish Lucius on factory settings. It is almost assured that Lucius will be the last insert lit. Every other goal is much easier to finish and there is nothing particulary challenging about Lucius, it is just tedious. So to solve that, the difficulty should be adjusted down one level to balance it out. It can be argued here that this goes against the grain of wanting to beat the game on factory. So let me state, I have gotten the wizard mode on factory several times, but Lucius is just way way too unbalanced for no good reason, so I changed it. Also don't forget to hit the Gordon targets to make getting through the gadget stages faster. (Think how the souls on POTD/LOTR work)

The other weakness in BDK are the modes. Nothing special, and you realize finishing Bruce Wayne is just a means to an end. There is no compelling reason to play or win the modes. No modes need to be won for any reason. Just play all 4, get your lit insert and move on.

There are some complaints about the toys on BDK. The crane is the big show and is darn cool. I like the Joker reveal coffee can for what it does and never really thought that it was bad despite the online griping I read about stating how cheesy it is. It conveys your different multiball stages just fine. A player knows exactly where they are in the multiball. The teeter ramp is just a fancy ramp transfer that did not pan out the way they wanted. Granted you can't see the Batmobile, but the method works fine and does not make the game bad.

Bowen Kerins had posted a video about how to get a Billion points on BDK by starting Batmobile hurryup and just hitting the right orbit over and over. While on the surface it seems easy-all you gotta do..., it is not, and it is more of a novelty trick rather than any serious way to play the game. There is a Batmobile hurryup award you can try for.

In summary the BDK game is quite fun, but like most Sterns or any game, there are some things that could be better. As usual, the best bet is to play the game and explore, not trust that someone says it stinks or is the best game ever.
end Quote

Bowen Kerins BDK Video
http://pinball.org/videos/tutorials/batman-dark-knight/

I love my Batman the Dark Knight machine! running V2.94
and was really wondering if Lyman would re look into this code to maybe up the anti a bit more?
We all know he had a lot of love with Spiderman, and well have fingers crossed that maybe he might look again into BDK......

P.s I did hear that there was another version other than 2.94 in the works, or was seen on another machine (The cheaper Costco version)

#2 5 years ago

I concur and would contribute $500 toward compensating him for the effort. BDK is one of my favorite pins. Mode variation like LOTR would make this pin epic. It is already the most fun pin in my collection. Most down ratings come from top players on easiness. Mode variation would be awesome. It has the best toy in pinball it just needs one more revision. I agree with the suggestions above. Lyman contact me if you payment parameters and we can see what we can raise for you. It would be a great PR move for Stern if they let him work on it. It would show their dedication to the pins that just need a little more to make them perfect.

#3 5 years ago

Maybe WOF can be added as well... for a code update

-1
#4 5 years ago

I have WOF as well and agree.

#5 5 years ago

Mr. Lyman, please finish BDK!

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

Mr. Lyman, please finish BDK!

The game is finished.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The game is finished.

You say this based on?

#8 5 years ago

Don't know if it is company policy, and don't want to be harsh or anything, but it seems like Stern's design team members don't have any time of their own. They simply seem to work 60-80 hour weeks... So, I guess hoping for a code update seems like wishfull thinking to me.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The game is finished.

That's what they say, just wishing for more in that game. A little encouragement might possibly help, no?

#10 5 years ago

I think there needs to be a monetary enticement to make it worth their while. To me it's worth it. I love that game. BDK came out in the recession years and it seems Stern has improved there coding. The only hope is that we make it worth Lyman's time for BDK. Keith did WOF and works for someone else now.

#11 5 years ago

Kickstarter project if Lyman's interested?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from bmunn1:

Kickstarter project if Lyman's interested?

I'm quite sure if Lyman was interested and wanted X amount for his time, I'm sure we could get enough for the project

#13 5 years ago

Lyman did the last update in his own time, doubt he would do it twice for the same game. A shame as having just spent a couple of hours on my BDK it's a ton of fun but would be another level with finished modes and different rules for the mini playfield

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from epotech:

Lyman did the last update in his own time, doubt he would do it twice for the same game. A shame as having just spent a couple of hours on my BDK it's a ton of fun but would be another level with finished modes and different rules for the mini playfield

Last update he did not get paid. This time he would. Big difference.

#15 5 years ago

Kickstarters for code updates and/or completions is a great idea. . .I'd be down with that.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from Rush1169:

Kickstarters for code updates and/or completions is a great idea. . .I'd be down with that.

I agree, a kickstarter for things like this would be an awesome idea.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from Rush1169:

Kickstarters for code updates and/or completions is a great idea. . .I'd be down with that.

It does set a bad precedent that the community doesn't expect Stern to have to pay for completing a product itself. I understand there's a fine line between "completing" the product, and community supported extensions to a product, but frankly I don't think anyone's happy with the ship-it-and-maybe-someday-finish-the-code attitude of Stern.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from johnnyfive:

It does set a bad precedent that the community doesn't expect Stern to have to pay for completing a product itself. I understand there's a fine line between "completing" the product, and community supported extensions to a product, but frankly I don't think anyone's happy with the ship-it-and-maybe-someday-finish-the-code attitude of Stern.

I agree, but that is what it is. Stern does not finish code on some games, but the number of 'no buys' because of that fact apparently does not outweigh the 'buys' in spite of that fact. Ship-it-and-maybe-someday-finish-the-code is Stern's MO (and B/W). Stern says "Mr Programmer, we are not going to pay you to work on the software for Game X starting now." Mr Programmer stops working on Game X. The end (save some occasional gratis work). That is the product in it's final form, like it or not.

Now, if I can 'mod' my software for $100 to include new features, completed code, or other enhancements, I'm in.

#19 5 years ago

Darn, thought there might have been a bit more love for BDK.
Hopefully some one can whisper in Mr Lymans ear for a present.

#20 5 years ago

Have him come up with a reasonable number and let us raise the money. I think it will happen if decides on a number he is willing to do it for. He has to see the thread tho so hopefully someone can point it out to him.

#21 5 years ago

I'm still of the opinion that there could be improved code in existance, it's just that it's never been released.

Reasoning: BDK is sitting at v2.94. Hardly a "round number", or a number I'd pick for a "final version". This is good, because I doubt Lyman considers BDK finished either. But remember that some months after v2.94 was released, the Costco BDK Classic came out... with v3.00 software.

Now, one can imagine that the reason BDK saw improvement in the first place was because Lyman was tasked with modifying the software for use with the Lite version (and I don't doubt that he wasn't tasked with nearly enough time to do it all "on the job"). And, one can also imagine that the reason the Classic software is sitting at v3.00 versus v1.00 or something, is because it's a modification of the base BDK code (like Stern's current Pro/LE software versions). And, if Lyman saw fit to number the Classic version at a nice round v3.00... then perhaps it's more polished than v2.94 was, and perhaps - just perhaps - there's also Pro v3.00 code sitting trapped on someone's hard drive...

#22 5 years ago

Thank's Sunfox.
It must have been the V3.00 on the Costco version that I remembered someone telling me.
Well we can only hope that Mr Lyman will enter back into the Batcave and surprise us all.
can only hope.

#23 5 years ago

If i would design a pin and code it, i would not rest until i am satisfied.

I just cant believe that we see 6 grand and up pins that just are not really finished in their code.

That will be a reason i will never ever buy a nib before i played it and see myself if the code is really 1.0 instead of the buggy betas, missing tons of modes and features you get nowadays.

Cause producers cant be trusted. Look at all the mess with indy, transformers, xmen, avengers, now mettallica again.

It takes years to complete a game for stern, if they ever do. Cause when they did not sell enough pins, you are <edited> in the ass. Like with indy stern.

Its a big shame.

Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Profanity.

#24 5 years ago

The Batpod MB has the most glaring problem (which doesn't affect game play). Aside from that, some mode variation would definitely make this game epic. I'd be in for a kickstarter.

#25 5 years ago

The ONLY thing I would add to BDK if the code is updated is a Bane mode!

#27 5 years ago

They made a 3.0 for the home version. It would not take a lot of time to get this ported over to the pro. I'd love to see it happen. If we could kick start this then it would be an awesome start to possibly revisiting some other games.

TRS could use an update.

Anyway I'd see if we can kickstart it as I'm in. We could probably raise a couple thousand.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from bmunn1:

You say this based on?

It's Sw v2.9, its got wizard mode, all features are implemented, etc. The game may not be perfect but its not unfinished.

The fact that Costco version had v3.0 is irrelevant. It doesn't mean its enhanced or better. It is likely that they took 2.94 and had to make small changes to fit the home version. Then they changed the version for internal tracking. Doubt there's anything to "port over".

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from kwiKimart:

The ONLY thing I would add to BDK if the code is updated is a Bane mode!

Bane wasn't in the Dark Knight movie.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It's Sw v2.9, its got wizard mode, all features are implemented, etc. The game may not be perfect but its not unfinished.
The fact that Costco version had v3.0 is irrelevant. It doesn't mean its enhanced or better. It is likely that they took 2.94 and had to make small changes to fit the home version. Then they changed the version for internal tracking. Doubt there's anything to "port over".

I don't think it would take too much to finish up Batpod mode, change some of the shot requirements for the Batman modes, fix a few known bugs, and perhaps add any remaining unused audio clips that were approved by the license holder.

#31 5 years ago

kickstarter !

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

Reasoning: BDK is sitting at v2.94. Hardly a "round number"

Haha. Programmers don't care about round numbers.

-2
#33 5 years ago

BDK to me is not enjoyable,
not very good looking (toys r us fest),
flow isn't good,
and the shoots aren't satisfying.
It just seems more zizzle and fizzle to me.

#34 5 years ago

BdK is a fun game. For looks you can change the figures, you wanna see the batmobil, add an EL strip on the ramp.

I found and find it still an enjoyable pin. Yes, it is not an Acdc premium but fun to play.

And yes, the balance with Lucius is not good. On 3 ball setting it is apart impossible for me to reach endgame. Only once so I should play better I guess, at least SR thinks so .....

Yes, some polishing on the rules would be great so I will chip in if this makes Lyman so this

#35 5 years ago

Stern revisiting old code could only help them move more units in the future as older games may gain value which puts more cash in the hands of potential nib purchases

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

BdK is a fun game. For looks you can change the figures, you wanna see the batmobil, add an EL strip on the ramp. ยป YouTube video
I found and find it still an enjoyable pin. Yes, it is not an Acdc premium but fun to play.
And yes, the balance with Lucius is not good. On 3 ball setting it is apart impossible for me to reach endgame. Only once so I should play better I guess, at least SR thinks so .....
Yes, some polishing on the rules would be great so I will chip in if this makes Lyman so this

Is this your BDK? How did you do the batmobile mod? And tie it into the game?

#37 5 years ago

This is my bdk indeed. Do you mean the EL wire/tape on the teeter ramp? It is glued on the ramp with double sides tape. When the teeter ramp is activated it switches 12 vdc via a relay to the EL tape and ready total costs around usd 20 dependable if you can get the el tape cheap enough via eBay

Than some blue flashers at the end to complement the effect. It really looks great in real life.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

This is my bdk indeed. Do you mean the EL wire/tape on the teeter ramp? It is glued on the ramp with double sides tape. When the teeter ramp is activated it switches 12 vdc via a relay to the EL tape and ready total costs around usd 20 dependable if you can get the el tape cheap enough via eBay
Than some blue flashers at the end to complement the effect. It really looks great in real life.

Where did you place the EL wire/tape? Under the car? Isn't the double sided tape to tall for the car to drive over? I always wanted this mod but the people I talk to can't really figure out how to do it.

When you activate your flippers does the El wire/tape light up a bit? That was the problem they were running into.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

This is my bdk indeed. Do you mean the EL wire/tape on the teeter ramp? It is glued on the ramp with double sides tape. When the teeter ramp is activated it switches 12 vdc via a relay to the EL tape and ready total costs around usd 20 dependable if you can get the el tape cheap enough via eBay
Than some blue flashers at the end to complement the effect. It really looks great in real life.

So EL tape is very flat and will not get in the way. Mounting it is not a problem. The EL inverters can also be 12vdc input so powering it is not a problem. Wiring seems obvious:
12vdc + from inverter taps into system 12vdc from front plug.
Ground taps into q13 transistor or transistor lug on teeter coil. It works great.

I used some light strip instead. It's a lot brighter. No inverter needed. And the way I mounted it, it doesn't touch the car. Problem is when I tap flippers, it sends a small pulse along the transistor. Enough to light the light strip a little. It's very brief and hard to notice but its there. It's possible that with EL tape its not noticable since this stuff isn't as bright as light strip. I'm not sure what causes this bleed over. In theory, q13 should be totally isolated from q15 and q16. It could be a problem unique to my game as well.

Did you wire yours differently?

#40 5 years ago

Markmon is right. Tape is very flat and car just drives over it.

Wiring is also pritty straight forward

You take the 12VDC at the right side from the cabinet. The minus you run direct to the inverter of the EL tape, the plus you run via a relay to the ELtape. IF you take a 48VDC relay you connect this direct to the coil of the teeterramp which than switches the plus to the inverter and this turns on the ELtape.

Look at my video starting around 2:40

No bleeching visible. In fact it is really bright, if it would be brighter I would need sunglasses

EL tape you can see at for instance ebay.com link
As a relay you can use ebay.com link » Omron Miniature Pcb Spdt 48v Relay

Enclosed a picture of somebody else who copied 'my' mod to, it clearly shows the tape from above. Dave, thanks for the picture mate

IMG_0977.JPG

1 month later
#42 4 years ago

I'm in with any kick starter for Lyman to finish needed codes. He is the nicest guy and deserves all the
Credit for what he has done for us, and I would love to pad his wallet.
-his friend Allen

#43 4 years ago

I am more for that stern somehow open the software for pins they dont sell anymore, so the community can mod the code. (just like it works fantastic in (pc) gaming.)

A kickstarter to finish a code from a game costing a few thousand dollars?

Nah.......

I have way more confidence in the community then a bloke with his name on an unfinished pin and wants extra cash to finish what he started.

He had his chance, for years now.

I have had it with these so called ''masters of pincoding''

They all come short, i think 9 out of 10 pins lately have code problems, or lack of code. (unfinished, modes missing, toys not used, bugs etc etc)

A big name does not tell me anything when they dont deliver. Give me that cactus canion conitnue guy instead of all the Lymens type of coders.

Give your underpar pins a second chance by opening the software stern!!

3 months later
#44 4 years ago

interesting thread, played it last night properly for the first time, really enjoyed it...don't know the game well enough to make a comment but its definatly on my wishlist...

#45 4 years ago

Great looking game, code please, and somebody make a cool mod for the joker that's better. Joker reveal, weak!

1 year later
#46 3 years ago

Bump

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