Smithville, MO
Quoted from LTG:I might add, I hope PPS has the rights. I hope they remake BBB. And I hope they do KP for me, first.
LTG : )
Is Kingpin a fun game?
(Topic ID: 161455)
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Big Bang Bar
Capcom, 1996
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Quoted from Stones:Is Kingpin a fun game?
Yes Kingpin is a fun game from the few times I got to play it...played it at PAGG this year and have at CA Xtreme before that. I only have like 10 plays total on it though so that is just my first impression of it.
Quoted from Stones:Is Kingpin a fun game?
I love it. My favorite game. Classic Mark Ritchie pin. Love the ramp shots.
You need to play a fully working one. Some at shows have had issues.
LTG : )
Richmond Hill, ON
Quoted from EMsInKC:PPS isn't going to "make" anything
Nope but they will get Stern to "make" it for them and CG as well.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Am I the only one who wouldn't buy one if they made remade them and sold for $5k?
You're not alone. If I was an operator I might, but I'm done spending that much on any pinball machine.
Plus I'm fresh out of $5,000 bills.
Quoted from wdpvideo:I could see AFM for sure but not MB to much licensing issues/reinstatement. I think that game would cost too much money to be re-made. Especially by a pinball company (person) that doesn't really exist. Just because you hold a license for Williams doesn't mean your pinball manufacture. Nor does it mean that the licensing is still good. Plus, you're relying on everybody else to build your machines. Plus, they are going to take part of the pie. He will need to stick with generic titles. That don't have all the licensing issues. Like CCC, AFM and so on.
If The Pinball Arcade app could do Monster Bash (without a kickstarter) then why in the world wouldn't Rick be able to?
Quoted from LTG:….And I hope they do KP for me, first.
And me, second.
Kingpin is an absolute blast to play. I've put probably over 100 plays on TJ's at PAGG and CAX over the years. Great programming, great sounds, great animations, great rule set. For a full, final release, there would be very few, somewhat obvious suggestions I'd make code-wise, but other than that, I'm ready to buy a brand new one. (Maybe not at $8k, though. Still a bit of a ridiculous price for a new pin.)
Quoted from pezpunk:If The Pinball Arcade app could do Monster Bash (without a kickstarter) then why in the world wouldn't Rick be able to?
Bring it on! I want to see it! not buying into the hype. Every time a game get insanely over priced, everyone comes on here yelling remake-remake- oh two sold this week, a remake must be in the works. GBLE sold this week, must be a remake. Oh wait still waiting on that title in a LE. Sorry, let me pinside that comment "Three sold this week, the game must suck"!
At this point every Williams game is going to be remade because they are pumping them out at PPS.
Quoted from EMsInKC:PPS isn't going to "make" anything.
I think I agree with this post.
Quoted from o-din:And personally, besides the money it could be sold for, I'd rather have a Break Shot.
I may have to start looking for another one.
I sold my BBB. Still have Breakshot 
Quoted from wdpvideo:Bring it on! I want to see it! not buying into the hype. Every time a game get insanely over priced, everyone comes on here yelling remake-remake- oh two sold this week, a remake must be in the works. GBLE sold this week, must be a remake. Oh wait still waiting on that title in a LE. Sorry, let me pinside that comment "Three sold this week, the game must suck"!
At this point every Williams game is going to be remade because they are pumping them out at PPS.I think I agree with this post.
if youre done ranting, would you care to address my actual comment? if the relatively rinky dink Farsight Studios can secure the licenses necessary for Monster Bash, why couldnt PPS?
Quoted from pezpunk:if youre done ranting, would you care to address my actual comment? if the relatively rinky dink Farsight Studios can secure the licenses necessary for Monster Bash, why couldnt PPS?
Well I guess anything is possible. However why would anybody pay all the licensing, if you don't have a place to build it? Plus, where is the MMR color DMD? Oh that's right it is Chicago gaming fault. Programming a table top is much cheaper that building a MB out right. Wonder if that's why you can buy the table top for under $20.00?
Quoted from LTG:It's a muddled mess. And I've never really seen proof one way or another.
Capcom made around 10 BBB's. Though a lot of their trademarks, patents, etc. may never have been finished.
Williams had two of the games, disassembled one and started making a BBB. In whitewood stage, no idea what the cabinet was. Williams board set in it. Lyman started programming it ? The disassembled one was bought with the other one and converted back into a Capcom BBB.
Gene bought eight pallets of Capcom parts that ended up in California and brought them back to Chicago. He did make 183+ BBB's.
Gene went bankrupt. PPS bought Gene's pinball stuff in bankruptcy court.
So only the people or companies involved know if Williams got as far as licensing BBB to make after Cactus Canyon? If Gene had the rights ? Or if now PPS has them ?
What ever. I just hope more get made so everybody that wants one can get one. I felt that way long before Gene made them, and still do.
LTG : )
I am with you Lloyd, I hope they get remade again so anyone that wants one can get one for a reasonable price. I would want a Kingpin as well! I know MMR has been a long wait for some but people that endured the wait and have the game now seem to be enjoying it quite a bit. So I assume that if it were to be remade it would be through PPS organizing it.
Melbourne
Even though I have one, I would be more than happy to see them remade. For what I paid for it, it has paid me back in full with fun over the last 10+ years, so any effect on price doesn't worry me, and I don't plan to sell mine anyway.
But knowing Kingpin even more intimately than BBB now, I would rather see that done. Not saying KP is better, just different (and at least as good) but as so inaccessible to most it would be a much better proposition, and a much lower BoM too.
Quoted from vegemite_nick:But knowing Kingpin even more intimately than BBB now, I would rather see that done. Not saying KP is better, just different (and at least as good) but as so inaccessible to most it would be a much better proposition, and a much lower BoM too.
KP is the better game, BBB is the better looker. Make 'em both I'd buy a KP but I'm pretty through with BBB.
Quoted from shlockdoc:It is usually the BBB owners that scream no and all the reasons why it should not be. They paid a tidy sum and do not want to see 50-70% of their value vaporize. It is a fun game and much more rare than the 1000 CC that are out there. Whether Rick can get production going to jump on this uptick in popularity is to be seen.
Hmmm...I paid $4500 as I remember.
Quoted from sepins:Hmmm...I paid $4500 as I remember.
Yeah what a great price you did great!
I think the ones that scream no remake are the second or third owners that bought them for a premium price and do not want to lose any money if the price goes down on them if more were made. A valid concern as I feel original MM's price did get affected by the remakes (20-25%). I'de rather they would make the BBB again and more people can own one if they wish even if it affects the value so little of the other owners. That is just me though and I would rather more people enjoy this hobby as on route machines are few and far between in certain areas and home exposure is more where it is at in the USA (excluding large cities). Will the original MM regain their value in a few years after they are finished making the remakes? Who can predict the future? I don't believe the original 13 BBB owners have lost anything on their value in the long term though or if any have sold as of late.
1 week later
If Kingpin was made how many would be in for a purchase of this title? I think this would create a lot of buzz and outsale most remakes. Thoughts?
Do I think it will be remade? I have no idea, but if I had to guess I'd say no. I just love Capcom pins and I think they don't get the love they deserve. It would be cool to have another BBB remake but even cooler for a Kingpin remake. Unfortunately I couldn't afford either one if it happened, so I'll just keep waiting for that good deal on a local breakshot to come up!
Have they gotten buy Capcoms coding yet?
Wasn't that the reason Gene only made so many BBB because he simple ran out of boards and chips?
Also they was unable to crack the coding to get the Kingin Project off the ground?
1 week later
Quoted from Starscream:Have they gotten buy Capcoms coding yet?
Wasn't that the reason Gene only made so many BBB because he simple ran out of boards and chips?
Also they was unable to crack the coding to get the Kingin Project off the ground?
I really don't know if they have figured this out yet or not. I am sure there is a way around it though even if they have to emulate it.
We have WMS BBB source code ... no issue.
Quoted from PPS:We have WMS BBB source code ... no issue.
Please remake this game!
Quoted from PPS:We have WMS BBB source code ... no issue.
Well then, what are you waiting for? 
If you build it, they will come.
Quoted from PPS:We have WMS BBB source code ... no issue.
Quoted from jadziedzic:any chance you have the Capcom BBB source code?
I'm sure top people are working on... finding it.
Since it already has been remade once (not counting the WMS fiasco) and there were roughly 30 more made than originally projected, the answer is a resounding "no".
Having the original code source code is not a game design, playfield design, or parts stockage, "ready to go".
Not even if the production films and molds are all readily available for acceptance and screening.
Tickling and teasing to determine interest from a parts supplier is not a valid argument.
Yes, I know PPS "makes more than parts" and has "made remake games".
I am not arguing that point to anybody.
It is not enough to say it can it happen, but is the market demand sufficient to make it profitable?
I don't believe in rumors, only fact when it comes to game production.
Would I personally purchase one at $6500? 7000? 8000? Yes, but I want to pick it up in person, cash in hand.
There are some considerations on this price below and for good reason.
Owners expecting things like a $5000 price tag?
Dream on folks, the cost of producing a game does not make the profitable at that cost today.
That makes no sense.
Maybe you could squeak out at $5500, but that is pushing the envelope.
But, I do not speak for the general pinball public of owners, I am a collector anyway.
I would not squabble to be one of 100 games, "buy now, if you are lucky!".
Also, I would not wait 3 years to get one.
Are people really wanting to fall into this trap again and complain about the wait constantly?
Gene only took a little over a year and half and that was a time when NOBODY had EVER done what he did.
The MMr situation was (and still is) embarrassing.
It is more saddening for those that waited so long to get the game.
I already have had multiple opportunities anyway to buy an BBB original and remake.
If it does magically happen (based on availability of the design which is not "lost" by any means), I look forward to the FORMAL announcement, but pre-order requirements are me to pick the game up at the factory floor in question, or a distributor right next to factory, if they won't let me do it.
"Old School" methodology, no more BS, knock knock.
Most of the NOS parts that were used to make BBBs are now gone.
Replacement parts are scarce.
Board sets are left, and odds and ends.
Retooling for this game and doing this all over again, does not warrant the cost based on general interest.
Notice, I did not say if could NOT happen, it just is not overly practical unless there is a landslide of pre-orders.
I don't want a BBBr with modern boards and LCD, I want a BBB with the OLD Capcom boards and design.
No other differences other than the minor board upgrades.
I don't want LEDs, special trim, powder coating, dietary supplements, or bunghole suppositories included with the game to jack the cost higher.
There is reason.
It WORKED, and was more reliable than WPC95.
How do I know?
I have owned (or still own) other Capcom games.
Yes, they have a couple of issues, but the board set was robust.
The capacitors on the power module board are the only real major concern.
Most people make this game into something much more than it really is overall, but once they play it, they change their minds.
They just do.
They say this worth $16-25K?
No, it is not.
Somebody asked me that EXACT question, last week.
Is everybody going to rush head long into another brick wall for cost to get smacked around for a couple of years?
If so, more power to the pinball market madness.
At least Silver Castle Pinball with TimeShock had proper sense with not accepting pre-orders based on a nearly functional prototype.
Outstanding choice by Jurgen.
The pain it took to do the original BBB remake is much more involved than most realize.
Gene really took some things in the shorts, in order to stand behind his word and promise.
I commend him for that, and anybody that knows the full story understands that too.
It was a precursor event that began leading him to his eventual bankruptcy!
Who owns the "BBB plans" now?
PPS.
Yay team!
As I stated, I look forward to any future announcement, but I am not throwing money until I see a working prototype again.
"Show me the game, I will show you my money."
The latest pinball revival is going to have to last much more than another 5 years for consideration, which based on some aspects of observations is not "pointing north on the compass".
The enthusiasm may be going the right way, but the market is not.
Stern is pricing themselves right out of the market, and going to be competing against their own machines shortly.
You cannot make remakes if the market does not remain healthy and vibrant, along with a operator community.
Home sales cannot carry the weight of this industry, yet.
I watch the market, not just general interest, as does every single other parts and game distributor and manufacturer.
"Go for the goal!"
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:The enthusiasm may be going the right way, but the market is not.
Stern is pricing themselves right out of the market, and going to be competing against their own machines shortly.
Worrisome, but could possibly come to be true. This statement is essentially the opening comments of the film, "Tilt, the battle to save pinball". It was describing Williams in the 1990s. This was a period in which some amazing games were made, but the market wasn't there. We all know what happened next.
Quoted from LTG:Only one. Universal. And they are supposed to be easy to work with.
LTG : )
Universal.
Some of the nicest aholes in the movie industry.
Quoted from Nevus:Worrisome, but could possibly come to be true. This statement is essentially the opening comments of the film, "Tilt, the battle to save pinball". It was describing Williams in the 1990s. This was a period in which some amazing games were made, but the market wasn't there. We all know what happened next.
I also think the industry is flooding the market with games. I love the resurgence and I'm glad to be a customer. However, I can't and won't buy several games a year. I'm more like 1-2 new games a year at best. I'd guess the average home enthusiast would spend less.
Everyone here knows this stuff, but it is in this context that we should consider the BBB remake. If only 2-3 titles a year were coming out, from one manufacturer, it would be an easier sell. With 4-6 titles available per year, it's got a lot of competition.
Not sure if the market is getting flooded with games or not. Seems like there is a lot of new blood buying pinball's. Now definitely for a collector that doesn't have deep pockets it is pretty impossible to buy all the games NIB as fast as they are being produced titles wise. I would bet that BBB would sale well at 8K if made again and likewise so would Kingpin. Arguments that parts are not available is pretty silly to me as anything can be reproduced if desired.
3 months later
Really do not understand the desire for this. Its a fun game, but in terms of Capcoms its 2nd to Pinball Magic. The big thing it has going for it is rarity. If it was produced in numbers it would be a 3k game.
Kingpin would be a more worthwhile remake, but only if they had someone to finish the code.
Quoted from dung:Really do not understand the desire for this. Its a fun game, but in terms of Capcoms its 2nd to Pinball Magic. The big thing it has going for it is rarity. If it was produced in numbers it would be a 3k game.
Kingpin would be a more worthwhile remake, but only if they had someone to finish the code.
It is a fun game and I love the theme, artwork, sound, blacklight effects. Reminds me of the bar scene in Star Wars which is a scene I have always loved. The look of the machine is incredible. Is it a deep game...certainly not, is it a blast to play...yes for me it is. Rarity is a fun aspect as well for collecting sake as far as prestige is concerned but I could really care less about that for me personally I would like them to be reproduced so I can buy one again at a reasonable price and others as well.
It's really not that great of a game to play. If it was mass produced, it would not be as popular today as it is now.
Quoted from Pinballlew:It is a fun game and I love the theme, artwork, sound, blacklight effects. Reminds me of the bar scene in Star Wars which is a scene I have always loved. The look of the machine is incredible. Is it a deep game...certainly not, is it a blast to play...yes for me it is. Rarity is a fun aspect as well for collecting sake as far as prestige is concerned but I could really care less about that for me personally I would like them to be reproduced so I can buy one again at a reasonable price and others as well.
It is, but my point was more that the number of remakes we will see is going to be fairly limited. Kingpin makes more sense. It is even more rare and if they finished the code it could be as good or better.
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