Big Bang Bar
Capcom, 1996Has anyone else put the Color DMD in their BBB?
It works and looks great!
However with the supplied voltage connector, unplugging and replacing J6 on the power board as directed disables the Alien motor. So... ?
I emailed Color DMD for feedback. Maybe a piggy back connector is needed?
Quoted from Fulltilt:Has anyone else put the Color DMD in their BBB?
It works and looks great!
However with the supplied voltage connector, unplugging and replacing J6 on the power board as directed disables the Alien motor. So... ?
I emailed Color DMD for feedback. Maybe a piggy back connector is needed?
Can you post a pic?
J6 or J2 is the question?
"Locate and disconnect the 7-pin display power connector in the backbox whose pins are labelled +5V, +18V, and GND.
a. For early Capcom games like Pinball Magic, this connector is J6 on the main Power Supply Board at the top of the backbox.
b. On later games like Breakshot, this connector is J2 on the Power Driver Board"
Quoted from Fulltilt:I used J6 on the Power Board.
Attached are pics of the J6 connector and the DMD power connector in front of it.
J6 has 5 wires on the original connector. Voltage is labeled correctly.
Well what does J2 have? Totally diff'rent?
Sorry I've only done it on a pinball magic
I'm thinking more that on my machine, instead of just to the display board, the J6 connector has tie-ins to the Alien motor.
I'm not wanting to modify my original connector to tie into the Color DMD plug, but that is what would probably work.
Well, just as a follow up and end for now. Very strange. If anyone has experience with their BBB and can add input, I'd love to hear it.
J6 on the Power Board links directly with J1 on the Display Power board.
When I unplug J6 to connect the Color DMD, the Color DMD works perfectly but my Alien motor ceases to work. No power.
I unplug the Color DMD harness and plug back in J6 (connected to J1 on the Display Power board), the Alien motor has power and works perfectly.
Makes no sense to me how power goes to the motor under the playfield through these connectors.
Guess I'm going back to the original DMD for now.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Is this a display you moved from another game? I thought a new one shipped with an adapter for J6.
No, just ordered from Color DMD. Randy really was great trying to fix the issue but no go so far.
It took some detective work for me to figure out that the alien motor is controlled by a pcb under the playfield that is not called out or documented anywhere in the BBB manual or wiring diagrams...
Here's the schematic that shows how your alien motor should be getting driven. Power comes from the power driver board on J16-pin9 (Yellow wire) and goes down under the playfield to the tube dancer motor (S30) and the motor control board in the center of the playfield (which uses the S31 and S32 controls to spin the motor).
The S31/S32 motor returns come from the same 7-pin connector back on the gray/black and gray/violet wires to J25 on the driver board. The transistors on the driver board open/close the S31/S32 circuits.
There shouldn't be any connection between J6 (the display board power connector) and the motor control board. Power should be coming in on the yellow wire from J16. Ground should be coming in from the black wire on J14.
Disconnecting J6 should not have any impact on the motor control board. You should check the power and ground connections going to the motor control board. If either power or ground for the motor control board is coming from J6, something is connected or wired incorrectly.
Thank you for all the detective work Randy. You guys went way beyond expectation.
Keeping in mind these games were assembled 1 by 1 from volunteers, it is a likely possibility there is a wiring miss-link. I feel lucky it works well to begin with. It would be Golden if I could get it to work with these great color displays.
Dang. I've had a ColorDMD for BBB sitting in a box in my office for 1.5 years. First off, where did the time go ?!?
You guys are motivating me to go downstairs and tear into it because you've piqued my curiosity.
I'll report back in on Sunday.
In the meantime don't quit trying @fulltilt, you're a tenacious SOB, rewire that bitch.
-----
edit: Well rats. Turns out that in late 2017 I got one of Kim's wiring kits to serve my purposes and I see it doesn't use the same connector to draw power from as is being discussed above...
yes... turns out I've been sitting on this ColorDMD for longer than I thought - damn I'm a lazy SOB.
Maybe there's a silver lining to this?? Perhaps Kim's kit would help you overcome your troubles?
Here's the link: https://www.kimballspinballs.com/capcom-games/
Quoted from mrbillishere:Dang. I've had a ColorDMD for BBB sitting in a box in my office for 1.5 years. First off, where did the time go ?!?
You guys are motivating me to go downstairs and tear into it because you've piqued my curiosity.
I'll report back in on Sunday......In the meantime don't quit trying fulltilt, you're a tenacious SOB, rewire that bitch.
Perhaps Kim's kit would help you overcome your troubles?
Here's the link: https://www.kimballspinballs.com/capcom-games/
I ain't sending it back yet. This SOB should be fixable. I'm just wondering who it was wired my game... Kerry?? (:
Quoted from jake35:You've inspired me to install one in mine. It's a great game, can't imagine what it will look like with color.[quoted image]
Like that topper! Nice
Quoted from jake35:You've inspired me to install one in mine. It's a great game, can't imagine what it will look like with color.[quoted image]
Sweet! Is that a Laserific topper?
Quoted from Fulltilt:Sweet! Is that a Laserific topper?
no it's a custom one with a light changing LED strip built into the base. It's pretty neat. Someone had it made for the machine before I owned it.
I am in the process of installing my Color DMD (thanks to this thread) but had a question. It says in the directions to disconnect the 14-pin DMD ribbon cable from the CPU Board and the 8-pin high-voltage wire harness from J2 on the Display Power Board. I do not have anything on J2 and only 1 ribbon cable? What am I missing?
IMG_6722 (resized).jpgIMG_6728 (resized).jpgQuoted from jj44114:Any thoughts on the led version vs. the lcd?
That is a personal preference. For me on this game would be LCD. LED looks great in many games though.
Quoted from vegemite_nick:Hope you get is sorted, of all the games I have with color, BBB is by far the best looking, the animations are spectacular.
Did you get the led or lcd version?
Quoted from Tyamry:I am in the process of installing my Color DMD (thanks to this thread) but had a question.
Quoted from Tyamry:Thanks...I'm almost there!
Are you doing an original or Illinois Pinball?
Quoted from Tyamry:Illinois Pinball.
Looking at your wiring colors etc, very different than mine. I couldn't get it to work in my machine.
The Color DMD looked fantastic, but my Alien motor wouldn't work at the same time. Sucked!
I really wanted this to work in the game.
BTW, Randy with Color DMD support ROCKS! He did everything short of coming over to my house.
This is why they are so successful.... and that they make kick ass products!
Quoted from jj44114:Did you get the led or lcd version?
LED
Quoted from Fulltilt:Looking at your wiring colors etc, very different than mine. I couldn't get it to work in my machine.
The Color DMD looked fantastic, but my Alien motor wouldn't work at the same time. Sucked!
I really wanted this to work in the game.
BTW, Randy with Color DMD support ROCKS! He did everything short of coming over to my house.
This is why they are so successful.... and that they make kick ass products!
Randy was awesome! He posted in this thread and sent me a couple of PM's to help out! I also want to give to kudos to #Yelobird who sent me pictures and answered some other questions I had! Thanks to everyone, I could not have done it myself!
Quoted from Fulltilt:Looking at your wiring colors etc, very different than mine. I couldn't get it to work in my machine.
Did you ever reach out to Kerry Stair at Mantis? He basically ran the project to completion.. if there were variations in production he would be the one that would know best.
Mission accomplished.
Using the alternative installation process and wiring I had from kimballspinballs worked just fine with my LED display.
While I was at it I took the opportunity to replace all the 'GI' bulbs, which were a mix of 1SMD Ghostbusters and Cointaker premiums (this dates back to long before LED-OCD was a thing,) with Comet Optimus Maximus bulbs - results were just fantastic (I've had an LEDOCD in it for several years too.) Got on a roll and even tore it apart enough to install a Cliffy in the Darts area as well.
Thanks for the kick in the pants y'all, the new display looks 'out of this world!'
IMG_20200426_173648.jpg
Man that looks great. What number is yours
Quoted from mrbillishere:Mission accomplished.
Using the alternative installation process and wiring I had from kimballspinballs worked just fine with my LED display.
While I was at it I took the opportunity to replace all the 'GI' bulbs, which were a mix of 1SMD Ghostbusters and Cointaker premiums (this dates back to long before LED-OCD was a thing,) with Comet Optimus Maximus bulbs - results were just fantastic (I've had an LEDOCD in it for several years too.) Got on a roll and even tore it apart enough to install a Cliffy in the Darts area as well.
Thanks for the kick in the pants y'all, the new display looks 'out of this world!'
[quoted image]
Quoted from mrbillishere:Mission accomplished.
Using the alternative installation process and wiring I had from kimballspinballs worked just fine with my LED display.
While I was at it I took the opportunity to replace all the 'GI' bulbs, which were a mix of 1SMD Ghostbusters and Cointaker premiums (this dates back to long before LED-OCD was a thing,) with Comet Optimus Maximus bulbs - results were just fantastic (I've had an LEDOCD in it for several years too.) Got on a roll and even tore it apart enough to install a Cliffy in the Darts area as well.
Thanks for the kick in the pants y'all, the new display looks 'out of this world!'
[quoted image]
Congrats!
Quoted from mrbillishere:Mission accomplished.
Using the alternative installation process and wiring I had from kimballspinballs worked just fine with my LED display.
Can you expand a little on that?
Quoted from Fulltilt:Can you expand a little on that?
I forgot about this until it was mentioned here, but Kim had designed a wire harness for his 12V lighting mods and added a connector so it could also drive a ColorDMD. This was before we were officially supporting Capcom, providing our own wire harness and running from 18V.
It's a more complicated solution in that it requires getting 12V and ground from two different locations in the game, but I tested one in a Pinball Magic (without any lighting mods connected) and it worked fine.
While this could be a workaround for you, it still doesn't solve the fundamental issue that there's some linkage between 18V and your 12V motors that should not be there.
Randy
Quoted from Dmod:I forgot about this until it was mentioned here, but Kim had designed a wire harness for his 12V lighting mods and added a connector so it could also drive a ColorDMD. This was before we were officially supporting Capcom, providing our own wire harness and running from 18V.
It's a more complicated solution in that it requires getting 12V and ground from two different locations in the game, but I tested one in a Pinball Magic (without any lighting mods connected) and it worked fine.
While this could be a workaround for you, it still doesn't solve the fundamental issue that there's some linkage between 18V and your 12V motors that should not be there.
Randy
I hope to run through that check list you sent me in the next couple days. I sprained my right shoulder a week or so ago and the recent raising and lowering of the playfield really took a toll on it! Once it eases back off I'm going to run through that list and get you some pictures of the wiring. I'm hoping to get to some answers on what's going on. Your help has been fantastic to say the least.
Quoted from Tyamry:Illinois Pinball. I bought an LED but might get an LCD instead.[quoted image]
Glad you're up and running. I noticed your comment... and it got me wondering, are the new LCD models a different size now? (I'm really out of touch so this is just an innocent question.) I was thinking the extra height of the LCD display would/could make it harder to install in a Capcom system. no?
The new LCDs are similar in size the old LCDs but a little thinner. The main change we made was to rotate and move the ColorDMD control board mounting positiion so it will not interfere with the metal DMD cover on the speaker panel.
Quoted from Dmod:The new LCDs are similar in size the old LCDs but a little thinner. The main change we made was to rotate and move the ColorDMD control board mounting positiion so it will not interfere with the metal DMD cover on the speaker panel.
Removing the metal DMD support posts and replacing them with the "lower" plastic posts included in the kit gave the perfect spacing.
Although now it seems intuitive, it would help to add that step to the instruction sheet.
Quoted from flynnibus:Did you ever reach out to Kerry Stair at Mantis? He basically ran the project to completion.. if there were variations in production he would be the one that would know best.
No I haven't done that yet. I've had the pleasure of Randy (at Color DMD) helping to trouble shoot. What a great guy that's gone above and way beyond.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:And the resolution was?
Started with thinking there might be some strange voltage leak through J6. Voltages at the playfield motor seemed to check out ok and not associated with J6.
Randy provided an excellent checklist and systematically went through the machine.
Thought it might be a grounding issue. Traced ground wiring all over the place. The connector on the power board, J14, that was supposed to provide the motor ground wasn't. The schematic shows 2 wires at J14, I had only one. Seemed it may finally have been some how connecting with ground on the EL board by some other path. Haven't actually found the ground wire path there yet.... but
After plugging and unplugging connectors for a couple days it magically all worked when put back together. I'm assuming a grounding issue somewhere got solved by reconnecting one of the plugs.
Best to check all the wiring to the power board against the manual. J6 already seems to have a wire there it shouldn't based on some of your first posts.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bbb-color-dmd?hl=jake35 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Nowhere Ridge, TN
Melbourne
Victoria, BC