(Topic ID: 236214)

Baywatch Switch Matrix/Flipper (?) Issue

By grantopia

5 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by grantopia
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Data_East_Flipper_Board_520-5080-00_schematic (resized).jpg
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#1 5 years ago

Not really sure what to make of this one...

When I have both flippers activated and hit a switch in row 7 or 8, the switch in the other row of 7 or 8 in the same column will activate.

For example, if I have both flippers held in and activate switch 56, switch 55 will also activate at the same time. With both flipper in, switch 39 also triggers switch 40 and so on. This doesn't seem to happen with only one flipper activated.

I don't see any visible shorts under the playfield on the switches for these rows. Before I started chasing my tail and clipping diodes all over to test I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on what this sounded like.

Transistor issue, bad diode, short somewhere I missed? Would a bad flipper coil diode cause this? Would appreciate any starting point or thoughts anyone can chime in with. Thanks!

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#2 5 years ago

Check Q5 and Q7 on the SSFB (Solid State Flipper Board) in the cabinet.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Check Q5 and Q7 on the SSFB (Solid State Flipper Board) in the cabinet.

It has aftermarket pinled flipper boards in it. I'll take a look to see if those are laid out the same but I am wondering if those are bad. I've seen a few threads saying they have caused issues in games...

#4 5 years ago

I'm having this exact same issue and it's infuriating. I've replaced the flipper boards (both original and PinLED), traced the wiring throughout the whole machine and tested every lead.

Do you have a shaker motor? Mine is powered through the flipper board and I think the aftermarket connections might be the problem.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I'm having this exact same issue and it's infuriating. I've replaced the flipper boards (both original and PinLED), traced the wiring throughout the whole machine and tested every lead.
Do you have a shaker motor? Mine is powered through the flipper board and I think the aftermarket connections might be the problem.

I don't have a shaker. I disconnect the board closest to the back of the cabinet and the issue went away. I need to see if I swap the boards if the issue follows the board. Did you have the same problem with the original flipper boards?

I wish I knew more about the Sega/DE flipper boards. I dont really understand yet how or why they would potentially impact the switch matrix if they just drive the flippers. I'm going to test the mpu as well...

#6 5 years ago

I had the problem with the original boards and switched my lower flipper board (front of the cabinet) to the upgraded model and had the same issue. When I switched the boards the problem persisted.

Next, I disconnected one plug at a time from the flipper boards and did a switch test for each. The problem stopped when I disconnected the lower flipper board data plug. (I don't have schematics handy at the moment - the plug closest to the front of the cabinet; not the power input connection.)

#7 5 years ago

It all comes down to the Q5 and Q7 transistors which are switching the switch lines to the mpu.
Two 50 cent parts.

Data_East_Flipper_Board_520-5080-00_schematic (resized).jpgData_East_Flipper_Board_520-5080-00_schematic (resized).jpg

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

It all comes down to the Q5 and Q7 transistors which are switching the switch lines to the mpu.
Two 50 cent parts.
[quoted image]

I noticed that in the schematics and figured that's the most likely place for a connection. I'll work up the courage to solder in some new transistors, but it doesn't explain how several different boards give the same result. Grantopia mentioned flipper coil diodes, which I hadn't considered.

#9 5 years ago

I think that could be getting close to the answer but unfortunately I have the pinled boards in there (but maybe they are the same schematics?). I haven't tested my flipper coil diodes but if I get the same error in test when the coil isn't active I assume that can probably be ruled out?

I did some messing around today and I think one of the flipper boards might be causing the issue. With the lower flipper board disconnected, a row 7 switch closes the switch in the same column on row 8 but NOT the other way around. With the lower board connected and the upper board disconnected, the issue is totally gone. With both boards connected, row 7 triggers the same switch in row 8 and vice versa.

I swapped the boards (upper now lower) and the issue seems to follow the board as I disconnect the lower board (former upper) the issue goes away. If I disconnect the now upper board, I get the same as above where row 7 triggers 8, but not the other way. With both in the issue is totally back.

I am strongly suspecting that the board that I had in the upper flipper spot is causing the issue as when it's not connected everything is fine and when its swapped the issue seems to follow it.

The question is is it just the transistor or is something else bad...or is both pinleds together just a bad combo for Sega games?

I assume (I know I know) if I had a playfield short or an mpu issue, the problem would persist regardless of which flipper board was where.

Thoughts? Ha!

#10 5 years ago

Try to find the schematics for this type of board....
I could not find it op the Pinled website.

#11 5 years ago

@topmoose I borrowed some original boards and replaced the (seemingly) bad pinled board with the original and the issue is totally gone. I'm wondering if you may have had issues with your original boards too...I'd try replacing the transistors on them. I'm hopefully going to grab another original board to use, but I wonder if the pinled board was just a fluke or something failed since the other one seems to work great.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

@topmoose I borrowed some original boards and replaced the (seemingly) bad pinled board with the original and the issue is totally gone. I'm wondering if you may have had issues with your original boards too...I'd try replacing the transistors on them. I'm hopefully going to grab another original board to use, but I wonder if the pinled board was just a fluke or something failed since the other one seems to work great.

I was just going to post! I ordered some new transistors, replaced the Q5 and the Q7 on the original board and the switch issue is gone. Unfortunately, the flipper power is a bit weaker and it's harder to make the ramps.

The flipper power is great with the PinLED board, but while the Q7 is replaceable, the Q5 is a micro component and can't be removed by hand. So to get a working game with good flipper action, I'd probably need to buy another new board.

Unless someone can guide me to more adjustments on the original board to boost the flipper power. Maybe a lower-power resistor or a higher power capacitor would do it?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I was just going to post! I ordered some new transistors, replaced the Q5 and the Q7 on the original board and the switch issue is gone. Unfortunately, the flipper power is a bit weaker and it's harder to make the ramps.
The flipper power is great with the PinLED board, but while the Q7 is replaceable, the Q5 is a micro component and can't be removed by hand. So to get a working game with good flipper action, I'd probably need to buy another new board.
Unless someone can guide me to more adjustments on the original board to boost the flipper power. Maybe a lower-power resistor or a higher power capacitor would do it?

Yes! Double check your incline and EOS switches. I gapped mine a bit closer when I brought the game home and I wouldn't say it made a world of difference but I can make the ramps reliably after adjusting them. My game is right around 6 degrees but YMMV. You could always see if you need a rebuild too!

#14 5 years ago

Well, dang it, Gran. My incline was set at 6.8 degrees. I lowered it to 6.0 and it's way better now. Plus I can make the side ramp.

Why is my first instinct always the most complicated and expensive?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

Well, dang it, Gran. My incline was set at 6.8 degrees. I lowered it to 6.0 and it's way better now. Plus I can make the side ramp.
Why is my first instinct always the most complicated and expensive?

Ha! Pretty sure that's how everyone in this hobby operates. Last week I had a burnt out bulb that I was convinced was a connector problem...turns out the bulb burned out

Glad you're back in business! 6 works pretty well for me. I had it at 6.5 and the ramps were makeable but you could tell it was a bit of a struggle. Lower than 6 and it felt a bit floaty to me so maybe 6 is just the baywatch sweet spot!

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