(Topic ID: 33977)

Baywatch Club....Members Only!

By dnhayden

11 years ago


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#2993 4 years ago

Just joined the club last weekend with a working project. Game had flipper/board issues, which I have since squared away (one of the flipper boards was completely missing the low power hold components(!) causing the shark flipper to not hold, $2 SCR re-soldered to the board and a homemade heatsink later, and she's back up and flipping perfectly). Going to further "bullet proof" by wrapping the huge main bundle of wires in loom to protect them from dragging across the boards every time the playfield is lifted, and/or maybe put something over them to shield them.

The last thing I cant seem to figure out, however, is the shark awards aren't lighting up, in gameplay or attract mode. Obviously the same in lamp test. I looked at the matrix, and it appears that the five lamps also share the same column as the ball launch button lamp (which also happens to be out).

I gave up last night as I had to go to bed, but any idea where I should start looking? Nothing was really apparent from the quick once over I gave it. I believe the column wire is yellow/brown, but I don't have any of it in front of me right now. This is the last piece of the puzzle to solve before I tear the top half of the game off for a full cleaning/shop/LED. I haven't completely traced it back to the board yet, but I'm suspecting maybe a bad pin/pulled out wire at the board? Anything else I should look at?

#2996 4 years ago

little update on the 'Watch...

Lamp matrix up and working! Traced everything back to the connection at the board, and noticed wires 1 and 8 don't terminate at the pins on the board, but rather continue through (assuming for matrix continuity), anyways, the corresponding yellow and brown wire was loose in its connector. a light push with a small flathead, and we were back up and running!

So far:

Shark flipper fixed and fully working (flipper board, repaired missing low voltage section scr)
Upper left flipper fully functioning (replaced cracked bushing, replaced broken compression spring, re-sleeved coil)
All lights/lamps now working.
Both lower flippers fully rebuilt (sans Sonic bats, as they are awesome!)
All lamps (sans stapled GI) replaced with cointaker warm white 1smd frosted Led's.

To do:

Burn/Install Chad's code
Pull the convoluted puzzle of ramps and habit trails for a deep (and I'm guessing first ever) shop job (replace rubbers/full clean and wax/replace GI with LED's)
Adjust the right shark ball launcher, as it shoots and then bobbles a captured ball about half the time (Could also be final game leveling issue, as it's in a temporary work location)
Color DMD, as it looks awesome!

Final thought before full teardown: Does everyone leave the upper left flipper alignment so that it is resting against the wall, or is it supposed to be angled out slightly? Seems like a shot to the ironman ramp will be very challenging. Now that I've just typed that, I should probably tighten down the pawl at the very end of the flipper's stroke to get the full range of motion. As it sits now, it probably has spring tension pushing it into the wall, and there's still more range of motion left. i.e. currently, the flipper can only get 45 degrees of angle, but buy adjusting it in the pawl, I could probably get 65 degrees and still maintain it being flat against the wall while it is at rest. Will check when I get home...

I know it's preference, but do you guys recommend 2smd frosted bulbs (in cool or warm) for the stapled down GI? I like the look of warm, but this one might benefit from cool. (All backboard, inserts, and in/outlane guides /slingshots currently 1 smd frosted warm white). The center of the playfield is much darker than the rest of the game, as I'm sure you're aware.

Final thoughts on the game: This thing is beautiful. Cosmetically, this is the nicest one I have ever seen. The cabinet is *almost* perfect (a nick here or there, but no paint loss/scratches), zero fade, and the playfield/plastics are flawless and everything is present. I can't imagine anybody would have bought this game for home use back then, but it could pass for it. Once I get this baby fully cleaned and dialed in, I can't see it leaving anytime soon. I practically had to kick my wife and two of her girlfriends off the machine when I got back from a show this weekend so I could really get to work on it. It is absolutely packed with features and shots, and is surprisingly deep! The old saying 10lbs of $#!+ in a 5lb bag comes to mind.

#3001 4 years ago

Got the upper left flipper aligned perfect now, perfectly aligned with the curvature of the left orbit guide; if you don't flip a counter-clockwise traveling ball, it rolls perfectly past as if the flipper were the guide, and now the Ironman ramp is makeable on demand every time (consistent with skill, obviously).

Any tips on dialing in the right side shark flipper ball launcher? Still running stock code, so I don't expect that or the gate to act perfectly.

Planning to tear the top half of the game down (with assistance from the guide on pg 52 of this thread) maybe this Saturday. After that, Chad's code (to address everything above, but ESPECIALLY the seizure show before and during multiball!), and colorDMD, and this baby will be about perfect.

Really enjoying this game more and more as I play a few more games each time after working on it. Never realized how underrated this game was now that it plays great and everything is pretty much working as it should (Any of the ones I had played prior were beat or had multiple things wrong). Flow for days or stop-and-go. Can't really think of another game that caters to both playing styles as well is this one. It's very fast for its era, and it can be a real ass kicker. Might I say this may be Joe Balcer's best game?

#3003 4 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Yall should post pics along with which type you used! I feel like the cool blue just has an unnatural kind of look to it sometimes but this might just be a problem with my brain. My brain always has a problem with purple though.
In regard to the shark flip I think I had mine set to the maximum setting for the best results. It's just too variable how fast it comes to the flipper, I think I'm probably at about 50%.

I'm talking about the ball-relauncher that shoots the ball back around for a shot at the Ironman ramp (when you pick the third skill shot for example). Its just above and to the right of the shark flipper.

I think my actual shark flip setting is at 60? Works about 50% of the time as well.

#3005 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Weird, I had mine set at like 1 and sometimes it was still too early.
My shark kicker was 100% once I took it out, filled in the holes, and remounted it. Plus a new sleeve.

Holes? Huh?

As to the second part, if you're talking about the kicker out of the shark hole scoop, mine is almost too powerful, haha. It kicks the ball out FAST into the upper relight laser kick target, then usually bounces back across down the out lane about half the time, using up the laser kick or draining. You really have to anticipate the kick and nudge hard right when it ejects to safely avoid it. Might have to bend the scoop slightly...

1 week later
#3018 4 years ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Will version 4.01 work with color DMD?

Yes, as long as you have display rom version 4.0.

1 month later
#3038 4 years ago

Mine does the "Baywatch will be <abrupt end>" at initial power up. (to clarify, NOT during the start of a new game when the machine is already powered on...)

From what I understand, this is normal. I've seen something about this before as to why it happens, but as I recall, it has no effect on anything.

1 month later
#3078 4 years ago

pm'd you @freakmech

Nice looking Baywatch!

2 weeks later
#3110 4 years ago
Quoted from freakmech:

Having an issue with Baywatch. Flippers work fine but I can not change the Skill Shot at the beginning of a ball. Machine was working fine. If it matters, it has Rottendog flipper boards. Please help!

Got the DMD yesterday, can't wait to get it in this weekend, thanks again, sir!

I'd start with a switch test in the service menu if you haven't done so already; do all the flippers register, even after staging the two upper flippers?

Knowing that you just swapped to a colordmd, I'd bet a ribbon cable/other connection was knocked loose in the backbox during the install and just needs to be reseated.

#3114 4 years ago

So I swapped out my dmd that had some lines out for a known good one. With the new one in, the game won’t boot, and it sounds like there is faint “chirping” noise coming from the dmd itself. If I swap back to the old dmd, game fires right up.

Any ideas folks? The only difference is the old dmd is a vishay Dale and the new one is just labeled as vishay...

#3116 4 years ago

Hmmm, I’ll take a peak shortly and update

#3117 4 years ago

Here’s the power to it...

FWIW, the connector is unidirectional, and without looking at the schematic, I would be hesitant to flip the connector around, sending +12v to NC and vice versa...

The old one isn’t labeled on the female side:

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#3118 4 years ago

I’m just worried that flipping it will send juice where it shouldn’t go, and that could be a problem, haha.

#3120 4 years ago

I'm going to wire up a 4 pin molex today (to plug and play) and give it a whirl.

#3122 4 years ago

I was glancing at the schematic on IPDB, and this appears correct. I've swapped DMD's in the past, and have NEVER run across this, haha.

I'll twist up a conversion pigtail when I get home. Thanks again!

#3123 4 years ago

Got bored at work and rolled my own...we’ll see what happens when I get home

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#3126 4 years ago

Tucked in all neat and clean, and we’re back in business!

Thanks again for the help, as I probably would have overthought this minuscule issue and broke out the meter, haha.
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#3128 4 years ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

Is it common for the trap door in the tower not to open fast enough when you hit it up the ramp? Or do i need to look at that switch?

I believe, depending on your settings, the flap should be up all the time once a set of lock drops is completed...

#3130 4 years ago
Quoted from freakmech:

Glad you got it working! I was worried you were gonna think I sent you a bad DMD!

No sir, the thought never even crossed my mind.

Also, this is pinball afterall; things wiggle loose, the same games are built with completely different components, etc. Troubleshooting/repairing them is a big part of the fun, for me at least.

#3133 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

The trap door should drop after completing the flag lock targets once the ball passes the gate.

Quoted from Happy81724:

Mine does that and I cant find a setting to keep it up. I adjusted the switch and it seems to catch the ball now but I haven’t hit a real hard shot at it. Previously, I’d hit a hard shot up the ramp and the ball would be over it when it lifted so it wouldn’t lock

Sorry for the confusion...but get ready for some more, haha.

Upon the completion of the three center flag drop targets, within the allotted time (signaled by the beeping you hear), the ramp flap should come up for the entire duration of your game, until a ball is shot up the lifeguard tower ramp, to "capture it"; the "locks" can be set to virtual (the ball just continues around the ramp to the right flipper, but must actually complete the ramp to count as the lock), or standard (the flap comes up and "captures" the ball, and a new ball is fed to the shooter lane and auto plunged (it's not actually "captured", rather led by the subway back to the bottom)). I believe there is also a setting that you can stack the lock qualifiers i.e. you complete the three lock drop targets three times, every attempt up the lifeguard ramp from then on there will count as a "locked ball".

I have mine set for physical "capture", and lock qualifiers not stackable (you have to complete a lock shot up the ramp, to re-qualify the lock qualifier drop targets. I find this less frustrating when trying to get mode progression, as you are perpetually locked out of "Mitch" when multiball is in the qualifying stages).

Great nuances in the settings/rules of this game...sans the lockout of progression towards "Mitch".

2 months later
#3181 4 years ago
Quoted from Scoot:

Finally in the club! Why isn't this pin in the top 50 on pinside? Such fun to play.[quoted image]

Because of the theme...If this were something with more machismo, or comedy, it would be a top 50 for sure.

And that particular example is nice; I thought about grabbing that one, swapping the colordmd/blades/various other things into mine, then selling it with the non-blingy parts, but the 10 hour round trip sort of killed it, haha.

It really is a great game once you get it tuned/leveled perfectly.

1 week later
#3196 4 years ago

I did a standard white kit from Marco as I prefer "stock" looking games with less "bling". That said, next time around, I'll go with titans in red, blue, and yellow, as this game was an "adventure" to properly shop out, haha.

#3198 4 years ago

DE and BIG DMD Sega playfields tend to be very robust in my experience. They tend to clean up literally to brand new with some elbow grease and novus.

You don't really see many worn-to-wood spots on DE/SEGA games, other than typically around scoops, or well used examples where a ball is constantly kicked out in the same spot (GNR, LAH)

Based on the lack of wear at the shark hole, I'd wager this is a relatively low play machine compared to others. As an aside I would guess MOST Baywatch's PROBABLY were less played compared to their peers, as I can't really imagine walking into an arcade as a pubescent teenager when these were on location, and pumping quarters into this over a slew of other flashy, B/W titles, or more masculine themed games.

Nowadays, as a discriminating connoisseur who values play over theme, it's a GREAT game. And the theme now kind of just kind of works as a generic beach theme, or 90's nostalgic cheese, in a good way.

Congrats on the pickup!

1 month later
#3274 4 years ago
Quoted from Kuroda:

Check correct connection of coil and EOS. Something might have been misconnected by previous owner.
Check wether problem moves from right to left flipper when exchanging front flipper board with rear one and vice versa.
The one board controls both flippers on left hand side, the other board the ones on the right hand side of the machine.
Flipper board are located at left inner vertical wall of cabinet.

Definitely check your flipper boards! Swap them to see if the problem follows. Make sure all of the components are present and undamaged.

Being where they are located, they are susceptible to having components sheered right off them or damaged from what I like to refer to as the "Data East/Sega Flop"; being that they lack the spring lockouts that B/W's machines have, upon lowering the playfield from the service position, if you pull the playfield forward, it will fall into the cabinet, right in line with the flipper boards.

I'd recommend checking them first, as the low power holds can be knocked off the board. I'd also recommend placing a wire loom over the wiring harness bundle that runs by them as well, because they will eventually snag something on the boards, or pull a wire from the bundle.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

#3278 4 years ago

Check the SR1 position on both boards, they should have heatsinks attached; these are your low power holds on both flipper boards. Make sure they are there/fully soldered in. If it's present, pop the board out and make sure it's not cold-jointed/loose from someone inevitably having dropped the playfield directly on that small component...

When I got my BW, the shark flipper would "flip" but not hold/stay up with the flipper button depressed. After some troubleshooting and swapping boards around and realizing the problem followed, I inspected the boards, and sure enough, the scr and heat sink were both completely missing, as in sheared off. I searched around the cabinet, but they weren't there. A trip to my local electronics store and a $2 scr, and homemade heatsink later, and she was back up and flipping.

If that ends up being your issue, which it sounds like it is, I'll check the values of the scr I had to get, because the recommended ones in the manual are no longer produced/are outdated, and an electrical engineer buddy of mine recommended a proper/current production spec'd part.

1 week later
#3302 4 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

Anyone ever have trouble with the launcher by the shark flipper? Mine is hitting a rail near the pops about 30% of the time, which ruins the third skill shot option.

Getting the game ABSOLUTELY level helped mine to be about 95% reliable, which still isn't as reliable as I'd like, however. Putting the ball through the rollovers every time is great for tournament play, but I like to mix it up at home.

Just set the game back up after doing a basement remodel, and of course, the relauncher isn't consistent, and the upkicker for the Pam scoop starting acting wonky, only recognizing a ball was in it about half the time. I'm guessing it's the looped/lasso shaped switch edge in the scoop that needs to be tweaked up or down a little.

#3308 4 years ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

That hole is a little too wide I think. The ball doesnt always settle in the same spot. So I double sided taped a piece of aluminum to the side so the ball can only rest in the same spot. After that the kicker hit the balls straight every time.

Do you have a pic by any chance?

#3317 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballdork:

This is IT!!! I would get a good kick around about 20 percent. Now 100 freekin percent. I always thought it was the door interfering... I added a stick of Bakelite I had with double side tape and slid it between the coil and the left ball guide (when facing the machine). The material is a hair over 1/16 inch - 2.5mm thick. And 3/8 tall any size should work as long as the new guide is held where the ball makes full contact with it. And about 2 1/2 inches long.
Now I can successfully play my favorite mode of the game Tidal Wave!!! What an amazing mode!
Pamela Thanks you for figuring this out!!!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Just to clarify, you're talking about this, right?

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#3329 4 years ago

Reseat your roms. This exact thing happened to me a while back. Be very careful when reinserting them as to not bend a leg.

#3331 4 years ago
Quoted from Ive:

Most likely your 5v is low or dropping somewhere.
Search other posts on here - been discussed often as quite a common problem with Sega / DE games.

not discounting this, but they say they have a new rottendog...

2 weeks later
#3355 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

I just got a new switch for the shark hole from pinball life. It was pretty loose and would fail to recognize balls about 50% of the time. While I have it open, I'm going to put in the plastic piece to fix the skill shot.

If you do, could you take some pics of your install and post them?

I'm debating between going with pinballdork or yellowghost's (BIG thanks to you guys, by the way!) and just wanted to see what else someone was doing. I've got some really thin aluminum bar stock that I think will be perfect, and unnoticeable to the eye...

#3358 3 years ago
Quoted from PeterG:

My dmd just gave up mid play. There are some noises coming from the dmd. Cracking noise? Any idea to resolve or just take the plunge with a color dmd?

check connections/ribbons. Unseat and reseat.

If the game powers and still starts a game, sans dmd, try pulling and reseating your roms.

I had exactly what you describe last year, and after trying a bunch of things, I reseated the roms, and viola, back to normal. Just be careful that you don't bend or break any of the little legs when reinserting them.

1 week later
#3388 3 years ago
Quoted from northerndude:

I think a ball will still launch with both flipper held? Am I crazy or is that another one if my pins?
Maybe it thinks your flipping both?

A LOT of DE/SEGA/Early Stern games do that (which is not only very annoying, but catches people off guard in a tourney setting when they walk up and ritualistically flip the game to feel it out before meaning to plunge)

I know my GNR does, but I think it's disabled when set in anctual "tournament/papa" mode, but I like to play with the extra balls on so I rarely set it to tournament mode...

That said, with Chad's code, I'm pretty sure it's disabled (Thank you!!!)

#3390 3 years ago

*runs downstairs and checks machine*

Huh, I guess I never noticed. Good catch sir! Thanks.

1 week later
#3394 3 years ago

Beating a dead horse and all...but what has everyone done to get the skillshots working properly?

I'm running ChadH code;

I've adjusted the autoplunger to hit the ball dead center;

I've waxed the wireform;

It almost appears like the ball is hitting the gate midair as it comes off the launch wire form, so I will slow-mo video it tonight after work. That said, it almost seems like the gate is opening at the same time as the ball reaches it and is bouncing off 85% of the time.

Other than bending the wireform down, and seeing what's happening in slo-mo, is there anything obvious I'm missing?

And for the life of me since I've had the auto shark flip disabled so long, and would like to toy with it to see if I can get it to work properly, I can no longer remember how or which test/diagnostic mode where you place a ball over the appropriate shark flip switch, and the game will flip it for you, and out of the shark hole if it goes in...I know adjustment 50 is for adjusting the timing...but if a ball is rolled over the switch with the coin door closed, I get no flip in that adjustment...Can anybody refresh my memory?

#3396 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

Once I put in a piece of plastic on the left side of the launcher channel per the messages earlier in this topic, I haven't had a launch failure. But mine wasn't hitting the launcher gate. It was spinning a bit and hitting the wireform by the pop bumpers.

My problem is on the INITIAL launch, the ball bounces off the gate 85% of the times and down through the lanes; the relauncher works perfect since adding a shim (for tidal wave at least), and the rare occasion it makes it all the way around from the initial ball launch and the third skill shot option is picked....

#3397 3 years ago

I'm going to try increasing the rear levelers slightly as well...

#3402 3 years ago

The game is at 6.5, so maybe I'll pitch it up a little bit more to 7.

Will try adding a washer or two as well to the end of the launch ball guide to slow the ball a little more.

Gate is functioning fine. I wish there was a way to actually remove the coil that controls it from the bottom to clean the coil sleeve for smoother operation without having to remove the entire top of the playfield. There's a bracket that is accessible on the underside of the playfield that it's attached to, but I don't think it will fit through with the actuator arm attached.

Maybe this Saturday, it's finally time for a full shop out/re-rubbering/deep clean...I'm guessing it will take close to 8 hours or so. not like I really have anywhere to go.

#3407 3 years ago

There isn't a rubber on the "f" post on mine either.

Anybody know of a way to pull the actuated gate coil from the underside with the actuator arm attached? I want to clean the sleeve...Longshot I know, haha.

Another peculiarity I noticed; what's everyone's plastic behind the earthquake vuk, that sits between the end of the ball launch habitrail, look like? I have a clear plastic there, bent at the same angle as the downward slope of the ball launch habitrail (I'm guessing to prevent a stuck ball there), that is attached by a screw and a metal post on one side, but has a post and screw on the other side, not actually fastened to anything, as the metal post literally just sits on top of another plastic...I got this game borked and have brought it back to life, but it seems there's something new everyday I discover that I have to put back to "factory".

I'll post pics later if it helps...

2 weeks later
#3425 3 years ago

I had good luck with bending both the sharkhole and the earthquake "wire loop" switches way up off of their trigger buttons on the switch itself; basically so there is a ton of space between the wire itself, and the little button trigger; when a ball falls onto the wire loop, it really FALLS on it now, if that makes sense.

As frustrating as this game can be to keep running "perfect", it is absolutely a great game.

4 weeks later
#3452 3 years ago
Quoted from PeterG:

The normal multiball when you shoot the tower 3 times after locks.Earthquake, when all modes have been played. And tourist Season is a multiball. For the rest?

I concur with this.

1 week later
#3479 3 years ago

Every so often, I'll get a "similar" but different issue; when the game goes to serve a ball to the shooter lane (at start of game, at the start of each subsequent ball, etc.), the trough coil will fire multiple times, sometimes 7 or 8, before it will kick a ball into the shooter lane. I generally overcome this by giving the right side of the cabinet a swift "love tap", like one might do for an aggressive slap save, and it kicks a ball every time. I've taken the coil apart, cleaned it, as well as the kicker mech itself. I'm thinking maybe it's getting bound up somehow? As you can look down into the area the game stages the ball to (where the optos are), I can see that once a ball is kicked to this area, it immediately then fires the ball up into the shooter lane, so I know the optos are good. Any ideas?

#3481 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

Ok, just to be clear, there are two mechs here. The mech that shoots the ball from the trough into the shooter lane, and the mech that launches the ball into play. The first one is an opto set that are looking for balls in the lowest part of the trough. If either isn't working, it will think that there is a ball in there and try to clear it. That happens to me on occasion, and cleaning the optos and/or reseating the connectors fixes it.
The other would be the shooter lane firing. That would be the switch in the rail.
EDIT: I would try replacing the actual opto components before changing the boards. That shouldn't be very expensive.

Is the "staging area/upkicker" (the mini-trough under the surfer decal, with the optos and it's own coil up-kicker to shoot the ball into the shooter lane) not a separate mech from the main trough, with it's own coil/kicker that moves the ball to the mini trough?

i.e. balls travel through main trough (and their associated roller switches), ball is then kicked by the coil at the end of the main trough to the staging area/mini-trough with optos, then ball is up-kicked by another coil into the actual shooter lane. That's how mine is, at least. Or so I think it is, haha.

1 week later
#3488 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

So, this weekend, my launcher started acting weak. I thought it was just misaligned so didn't immediately do anything. Then, I realized it was locked on and smoking....
I let it cool down, then I tried clipping out the diode. Replaced it, no change. In fact, lots of solenoids weren't working. I changed out the fuse and got that sorted. Still locking on. Changed the coil to one I happened to have lying around. No change. I changed out Q44 and it's still doing it. I've got some pre-drive transistors coming, so I'll swap that next. Any suggestions on what else to look for in the meantime?

Possibly a short somewhere in the harness? Something rubbed through? Can you remove the launch coil and then possibly do a coil test? Do you get the behavior even when the playfield is up in service position?

The popped fuse would have me chasing a short.

From past posts, you are obviously competent...sounds like it's meter time. Please keep us posted, and good luck.

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#3491 3 years ago

Glad you got it sorted out!

1 month later
#3530 3 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

Two questions for the team:
1. I recently got sick of not being able to get a ball up the left ramp, so I installed a “Guns N Roses” coil on the lower right flipper. It fixed the problem, but now the game feels off balance, with one side way stronger than the other. I wonder if installing the old right coil on the left side would help. Has anyone tried this?
2. About 90% of my drains occur when the ball comes down the right side lane, past the shark flipper, bounces off the wire lane divider and falls into the outline. Any tips for how I can fix this for a more consistently clean feed to the right flipper?

Adjust the shark flipper within it's pawl (take a slow mo of the ball running down it; if the ball hits the the wire, adjust the flipper to the right; if it hits the outlane rubber, adjust it to the left.

I put new stops and sleeves in and cleaned everything up (as the plungers looked good) a few weeks ago, and it has made ALL the difference; after a marathon game, I found making the full lifeguard ramp extremely difficult if not impossible; now not a problem at all. Having a GNR myself, I know how strong those coils are, and I would be worried about potentially causing damage to things. And I can only imagine how unbalanced/underpowered the other flippers must feel now. I'd swap back and fully rebuild the lower flippers and restop/coil the ironman and shark flippers.

#3533 3 years ago

Very strange indeed...

It may or may not help, but check for loose transistors or cold solder joints on the high power section of the flipper board. They are notorious for getting wacked by inadvertent playfield drops on them (what I refer to as the data east/sega flop)

Now that I just reread what you posted, you swapped to a rd flipper board and it still had issues...

Check ALL of the fuses in the game. Even ones that aren't associated with the flippers can have an effect. Use a meter, not by sight.

Check the cpu board flipper relay for cold solder joints or for the relay itself going out.

The flipperwinkel DE repair site has been invaluable to me in working on DE/Sega games.

4 weeks later
#3577 3 years ago

Hmmm, place a small, clear bumper at the end of the trough (like the kind that you use to prevent cabinet doors from banging into the frames? maybe a thin wood shim cut the exact thickness of the trough and slid straight up from underneath to act as a spacer?

Also, could the balls be magnetized?

I still occasionally have a phantom failure of having a ball kicked from the trough to the "shooter lane staging area" (or whatever we are calling it, haha), even after replacing/rebuilding the optos and grommets and re-aligning them. Usually giving the game a gentle love tap on the right side of the cabinet while the trough is cycling will get it to kick a ball, but at times (almost always going into ball 3 of a monster game, of course), the game won't ever get a ball into the staging area, the game autoplunges a phantom ball that isn't in the trough, then ends the ball. Happens once every couple of weeks, and I can't pinpoint it.

I'll have to look at my trough better this week, and see if I can't get it squared away...

#3580 3 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

In the first pic it looks like you are missing a ball...is the 5th ball in the staging area to be kicked to the shooter lane? Or just a weird angle on the pic?

This has happened to me before. The game thinks there is a ball in the staging area where the opto is. When you replaced the optos did you reflow the solder on the header pins at the connector on the opto board (both sides)?

Nope, but I will! Thanks.

1 week later
#3587 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

I'll check it out. It's in an arcade right now, so I can't touch it. The owner mentioned the problem, and his tech took the pics while trying to diagnose it.

I finally got sick of dealing with my phantom ball eject/trough issues, so today was the day I decided to stop letting the Hoff down, haha.

I looked at the trough, and realized I had the same issue as you. Balls stacked towards the shooter lane. I messed with the kickout arm a little, and realized that’s what controls the amount of play of ball tension in the trough. I figured maybe the rubber bumper or mounting screws for the trough could be adjusted, but no dice. It dawned on me to ever so slightly bend the coil bracket back a “smidge”, and voila!, the balls moved back over the appropriate position within the trough to sit on their corresponding switches correctly. I guess that bracket must have bent ever so slightly forward over the years of getting repeatedly beaten by the balls and the force of the ball kickout arm. This explains me having to give the game a "love tap" on the right side of the cabinet every so often; it was re-settling the balls back over their appropriate switches in the trough.

Hopefully it’s as simple of a fix as this, one that has been embarrassingly baffling me for months, haha.

I’ve played roughly a dozen test games with nary a hiccup.

Good luck sir!

(Please don’t put much into the order of the attached pictures; I’ve re-uploaded multiple times in the correct order, and they still post out of order. I’m posting mobily, so I’m guessing that’s what it is...)

18984935-319E-4736-B537-D12449B933FF (resized).jpeg18984935-319E-4736-B537-D12449B933FF (resized).jpeg30786494-B5A1-4B08-973D-94AE2E617BE3 (resized).jpeg30786494-B5A1-4B08-973D-94AE2E617BE3 (resized).jpeg5D307B92-7677-4F50-BA32-106462B35851 (resized).jpeg5D307B92-7677-4F50-BA32-106462B35851 (resized).jpeg80CE99FF-2952-4EB6-9FDC-5E91D95178E2 (resized).jpeg80CE99FF-2952-4EB6-9FDC-5E91D95178E2 (resized).jpeg

86F6944F-384B-4937-95C6-DE7CCB1A5301 (resized).jpeg86F6944F-384B-4937-95C6-DE7CCB1A5301 (resized).jpegB84D84AF-35F8-4BDA-A14B-2BF9D2B039E3 (resized).jpegB84D84AF-35F8-4BDA-A14B-2BF9D2B039E3 (resized).jpeg

#3591 3 years ago

I was able to carefully pull the loop shaped actuator arm off of my old switch, and swap it onto a new micro switch I had laying around. It seems to be the most reliable alternative to the new "U/fork" shaped arms for this particular application. The angle or geometry the switch is mounted down in that hole is very finicky for whatever reason about how the ball interacts with the actuator arm and triggers the switch. Good luck!

#3594 3 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

How did you attach the arm to a new switch? Solder?

The little collars on the switch arm tabs/brackets themselves just snapped onto the little nubs on the switch body.

I used a jeweler's flathead screwdriver to carefully pop the old arm off the nubs on the old switch housing; the arm tabs/brackets put enough tension on the new switch body to hold the arm in place. That's just what I did, because I had another switch lying around that had a rollover wire arm on it.

2 weeks later
#3607 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

I have a weird problem. The balls in the trough get wedged forward sometimes, and don't quite hit all the switches. When this happens, and you drain a ball, you have to wait for a ball search, which will cause the balls to reseat. I attached some pics to show what I mean.
Any ideas on fixing this?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Curious if you ever got this resolved?

There's been at least 100 games played on mine since I bent the bracket back, and there hasn't been a single failure to kick a ball yet...(knocks on wood).

#3613 3 years ago

I mean with a couple 3d printed top railings (or any other material that you can think of to replace the missing ones), and about an 20 minutes of time with some good plastic model paint, and you'd be better than new, as highlighted by PeterG...

1 month later
#3672 3 years ago

My copy has the second post above the adjustable one as well, like a lot of others...

I bet that they were added early into production because they found 90% of all balls were lost down there; the geometry of the playfield lends itself to having balls caromed into that area regularly (ie shark hole into the kickback re-light targets, then bounced right down the left out lane to be kicked back into the lock targets, that then bounce into the shark hole, and so on, haha).

I have pondered this for a long time as well.

If anyone is tight with Balcer or Kaminkow, they are always willing to chat it.

#3677 3 years ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Hey all, my shark scoop isn’t registering very well, just checking on if this is wired correctly on the switch, I’ve been testing and it registeres maybe 60% of the touches. I have a spare, but maybe I’m dealing with a flaky switch or a bad diode, backwards diode?
My (green wire is on NO) and my (White on NC) with a diode across Common / NC. [quoted image]

That is absolutely correct.

I had the exact same problem...ball would go into shark hole, then register roughly 60% of the time; the other 40%...annoying ball search. I made adjustments to the wire loop, and it never remedied anything, even though the switch made an audible "click" when it was pressed.

I replaced the switch with another I had lying around, but carefully pulled the wire loop from the stock switch and transferred it over to the new one. I have heard that the new version with the fork/"Y" shaped wire could be iffy in Baywatch applications, for whatever reason. Either way, the old wire loop on a new switch has been rock solid since.

Interestingly, the switch that registers a full tower ramp hit (the one hung from the habitrail after the ball hits the apex and makes a right hand turn) on my copy does not register reliably in test mode when pressed by hand, and in fact, usually sticks shut (even though it doesn't indicate that in test). It is also a Cherry switch with a yellow trigger. For whatever reason, it functions perfectly when an actual ball triggers the switch, and it doesn't stick. Thusly, I've left it alone and it works fine. I can only guess that engaging the switch by hand over extends it internally or something.

Channeling a little Joe Dirt's dad: "How exactly do the cherry micro switches in Baywatch work? Nobody knows, they just do!"

#3682 3 years ago

We're probably beating a dead horse, but I FINALLY got everything reliable enough (that I would put mine on location like yours was), by replacing the trough optos and rubber grommets and getting them perfectly aligned; bending the ball bracket back a smidge so the balls sat on their respective roller switches perfectly, and adjusted the shooter lane switch a bunch.

I'd of rather just stuffed a rag down the shooter lane kicker or removed the balls prior to lifting the playfield like in EVERY other game ever, than to deal with the quirkiness of simply getting a ball to the shooter lane reliably, lol.

Good luck my friend!

#3684 3 years ago

Yeah, I was able to order a complete set (left and right opto boards) off of marco or pbl over the summer...I was also able to order the actual optical sensors so I could rebuild the originals in the future should there ever be another problem. Make sure to grab new rubber grommets as well, as that keeps them centered and more impervious to vibrating loose.

#3687 3 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

This is the kicker on the left side of the machine. When the ball enters the guard house, it rolls own to this kicker and comes up under the apron and rolls into the trough. I had a chance to look at it. It's a microswitch.

Gotcha. When you physically "lock" a ball, it rolls from the tower trap door, down the subway, to under the left side of the apron, and is then kicked over to the trough to put the ball back into que. There is a setting to disable the trap door, so when a ball is "locked", it simply continues around the ramp to be fed to the right flipper. The only caveat is that you have to complete the ramp for it to count, as opposed to having a half-ramp shot be good enough with the trap door.

Ahh...good ol' Sega "quirk".

1 month later
#3746 3 years ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Hey folks. My upper left flipper is weak, can’t make a ramp shot with it at all.
Any ideas what could be a culprit of that weakness? A couple years ago I replaced the coil, sleeve, and it looks right, but man, this thing isn’t functionable
TIA

Assuming it still "holds" while the left flipper is pressed (to eliminate a low power hold issue), as previously suggested above, check the fuses first, with a meter, then the holders as they can and do loosen. After that, I'd check for a cracked bushing (like mine had when I first got it), and make sure the pawl is tight and the flipper is lined up correctly.

If that all checks out, check the "high power" section of the flipper board for a loose or faulty transistor. The copy I have was completely missing the transistor and heat sink as it had been knocked clean off the flipper board from what I can only guess was the playfield falling into the cabinet and chopping it off. The main wiring harness runs through that area as well, and could easily snag components on the flipper board when ever the playfield is lifted/put back in place. If you don't have one, I'd suggest adding some wiring loom to keep the harness tidy, and to prevent any future snags from it.

Good luck sir!

3 weeks later
#3790 3 years ago

Lol, grown (I'm guessing) men (again, guessing) arguing over a pinball machine, let alone a Baywatch themed one.

This hobby is great!

#3793 3 years ago

Never really thought of it that way, but it's true: a mini shooting gallery under glass!

3 months later
#3896 2 years ago

Mine is a "hair" away from making contact, like less than a mm, but it doesn't touch. I found out there's a little room for adjustment when I re-centered mine to get more consistent ball contact when launching; I believe you can slide it forward a little from the bracket mounting holes, then crank them back down to hold, at least you could on mine.

2 weeks later
#3899 2 years ago

Can anyone take a quick picture of their flipper boards inside the cabinet for me? Both would help, but the upper flipper board (closest to the back box) is what I'm really looking for.

The shark flipper stopped low power holding, and it "appears" that the low power hold scr (SR1) has been knocked off the board (from the wiring harness dragging across it?).

8F6FD19F-F9B6-48EC-89DC-BF6A0EC669BF (resized).jpeg8F6FD19F-F9B6-48EC-89DC-BF6A0EC669BF (resized).jpeg
#3900 2 years ago

I think I found the problem…haha.

This is now the second time I’ve had an issue with the low power hold SCR’s getting knocked off a flipper board.

Heating up the iron now…

BE4B493D-5252-4296-B739-1ED08D539A49 (resized).jpegBE4B493D-5252-4296-B739-1ED08D539A49 (resized).jpegFAE6D4EC-AD9F-4076-B264-C87F24FC51D6 (resized).jpegFAE6D4EC-AD9F-4076-B264-C87F24FC51D6 (resized).jpeg
1 week later
#3916 2 years ago

I had really good luck with naptha (ronsonal lighter fluid) and a micro fiber cloth getting all the grime off, then a very, very, very small amount of turtle wax chrome polish on a terry cloth. YMMV. Good luck!

#3920 2 years ago

I've pondered that as well...

CONJECTURE ONLY: I wonder if BW was supposed to be another theme (Star Wars?), and after a bunch of things came in prior to assembly, they had to change the theme/software last minute (the operator Portals menu is Star Wars "themed" moving forward on all Sega games until at least Whitestar). Replace the Guard Tower with the Deathstar, change the art, change the video mode to be a cycle run through the forest, and I could see it.

I mean, even for the time, BW as a pinball theme is/was rather odd. I know it was far more popular over seas than here in the US, but still. Somebody ask Joe Kaminkow and see what he says.

Or, MUCH, MUCH, MORE likely, they felt the brass plating looked flashy and would attract more players.

#3932 2 years ago

I've found that there are 5 main issues getting the skill shot to work correctly:

1: Make sure the game is pitched correctly. 6.5/6.6/6.7. Make sure the game is level side to side as well. The playfield on mine is ever so slightly canted in the cabinet, so the game looks slightly unlevel in the lineup compared to other games when viewing the back boxes in a row, but the playfield is dead nuts 0.0.

2: Make sure the ball is being struck dead center by the launcher. A hair off center puts spin on the ball and/or causes it to jump/deflect slightly (similarly to how a jump shot is made in billiards) off the shooter lane causing the ball to strike the launch wireform and robbing it of momentum.

3: Make sure the ball launch wire form is clean and free of any bumps, burs, or crud. I even wax mine every so often.

4: Possibly the most important: Make sure the launch ramp is shimmed/adjusted properly where it attaches at the back near the guard tower. This can make or break the skill shot functionality. Here you can adjust the timing of the ball hitting the gate or clearing it by adjusting it towards the backwall slightly, or towards the front of the machine. Your particular machine my need to have the ball slightly bounce off the back wall to slow it down for the timing, or have a clean exit to speed it up to clear the gate. Use a phone in slow-mo to film it and see what it needs.

5: Make sure the gate itself is as clean as a whistle. Unfortunately, this pretty much requires a full shop-out/tear down to get to the coil that controls it. Make sure the coil is clean and the sleeve is new or at least super clean. You can try flicking it by hand from the underside of the playfield a bunch of times to free it up as well. Also make sure the spring isn't bound.

Good luck! BW is so satisfying to play when everything works and is playing fast!

1 month later
#3972 2 years ago

You can disable the match "knock" in software; conversely, past operators/owners may have robbed the coil entirely to repair a bad one elsewhere on the game (or on a different machine), or cut the wiring to it to disable it, as locations/homes may not want to hear the loud pop, again, even though it can be disabled in software. I've seen plenty of both over the years.

#3974 2 years ago

Should be adjustment 40, "external replay knocker"

2 months later
#4071 2 years ago
Quoted from Dantesmark:

Its not a sailboat.. its a schooner.

Ha! You dumb bastard!

#4091 2 years ago

I disabled shark flip, as it had a tendency to send the ball out of control after a missed shot and usually right down the outlane...

I'm running Chad's code as well, and it seemingly got worse after throwing in the new rom a couple years ago (NOT A KNOCK ON CHAD, IN ANY WAY...). Of course, that was AFTER probably a thousand or so games from it being thoroughly cleaned.

I'm due for a full shop again (as my skill shot gate is getting wonky, and I have yet to figure out how to get to the coil that controls it to give it a cleaning without pulling the ramps). As I recall, when I fully cleaned everything after initially getting the game, the shark flip worked roughly 80%. After I get around to shopping the game, I'll turn it back on and see if it's better.

#4096 2 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Like others have mentioned, Shark Flip is a gimmick. Always has been, always will be. Consider yourself lucky if it makes the shot 50% of the time. I added the option to disable it for those who never liked it.
Also, if it helps, there are tips on how to adjust it at the bottom of the Baywatch Guide on my web page.
https://www.pinballcode.com/bw401

And that option is HUGELY appreciated in this game! Before, I'd have to remember to hold the shark flipper up so it would (hopefully) roll over to the left flipper for a trap or dead bounce, instead of the game firing it wildly when it was a shark flip enabled event. Just having it OFF is so much better, especially for tournament play.

2 months later
#4158 2 years ago

Maybe another couple things to check...Have you checked the cabinet mounted flipper boards or main wiring harness by them?

The flipper boards, being where they are located, are susceptible to having components sheered right off them or damaged, from what I like to refer to as the "Data East/Sega Flop"; being that they lack the spring lockouts that B/W's machines have, upon lowering the playfield from the service position, if you pull the playfield forward, it will fall into the cabinet, right in line with the flipper boards.

Also check the main wiring harness bundle that runs by them; the bundle is susceptible to snagging the board and rubbing insulation off of wires in the huge bundle causing erratic shorts/behavior. Get a big wire loom over the wiring harness bundle if you don't already have one to protect the harness and the flipper boards from rubbing against each other.

Good luck!

#4160 2 years ago

After rereading the original post, possible rom issue? Possible logic processing issue on any of the chips? Any previous acid damage? Faulty diodes on the flipper coils? A faulty diode in the 7th row of the matrix? Just shot gunning here, but I'm guessing you've checked those.

#4162 2 years ago
Quoted from radial_head:

The only other thing I can think of is it possibly being an issue with something in-between the SSFB and the flipper button switches, but I think there's almost nothing in the circuit in-between the switch and the board.

It's been a while since I've been through DE flipper theory of operation, but to your point, I don't think there is either; the flipper buttons close their respective switches, which signal the driver board/mpu to send power to the flipper coils via the ssfb; i.e. driver/mpu are are completely separated from the flipper switches power-wise. They only send signal.

This really is a head scratcher. It stinks that you don't have access to some genuine DE ssfb's to test if the problem goes away to isolate the board(s) themselves. I am generally suspect of this type of rottendog or aftermarket all-in-one board. Something is sending a signal back on the logic end; if it's erratic current from the ssfb, it's anyone's guess. Sorry I can't be more helpful here.

4 weeks later
#4195 2 years ago

I'm guessing to prevent an air ball from getting stuck there. But I never understood the point of the access hole; there's nothing to access there...weird.

3 weeks later
#4211 2 years ago

Chad's, v4.01, pinballcode.com, no, it's amazing and completely changes the game (for the better) from stock. Let alone the changes in mode scoring, skill shot, bug fixes, etc., the reduction of the seizure inducing flashing is worth it on it's own. Burn the rom, and never look back.

#4248 2 years ago

Get ready for a "fun" shop job...

Read a guide, take your time, take lots of pics, check each GI bulb is working as you go (if replacing with LED, as you can't reach most them after everything is reassembled, ask many of us how we know, haha), and it's not that bad. Once you get shopping a 'watch under your belt, everything will seem like a piece of cake.

Good luck!

1 week later
#4288 1 year ago

That's what they go for for the xl's from ColorDMD; others use pin2dmd, which is cheaper, but a whole lot more diy, and not as "pretty" as ColorDMD's version (but damn nice)

2 months later
#4461 1 year ago

Are you talking about the trough opto boards with the rubber mounting grommets on them?

If so, they were like $12 from PBL for the pair, but did not include the grommets; you have to order those separately and they are absolutely key to having the boards line up correctly. I'm usually a replace individual faulty components on a board guy myself as well, but for the $12 for BOTH boards, I "splurged", haha.

#4466 1 year ago

Yeah, that was them...the single led boards that many modern Stern's used; my memory is a little fuzzy from a couple of years ago...at this point, I don't think I actually replaced the factory boards, but instead swapped in the new grommets and that fixed the trough issue.

And $30 does seem a bit steep considering the bom for these little boards.

That said, find a compatible receiver/transmitter set of led bulbs(a few bucks), desolder the old ones/solder in the new ones, and get a new set of grommets , and I would think you should be gtg.

(I really should keep a repair log for each game)

4 months later
#4650 1 year ago

Are you talking about the standup targets at the entrance to the ramps? I believe Mezel makes a splint mod for those, if that's what you mean.

#4652 1 year ago
Quoted from mikespins:

Nope, referring to the 3 drop targets across from the shark scoop.

Gotcha...that's a weird issue for sure. Never had it happen

1 month later
#4718 1 year ago

I'm guessing the coil stop is worn (the top metal tab with the two allen screws in it), even though it looks newer; or when the last person reassembled it, they didn't squeeze the coil bracket and stop tight when they were tightening it down, and it's causing some binding on the linkage or the plunger, or possibly a dusted up coil sleeve not letting the plunger get its full range of motion.

The red posts are there to close the normally open switches that switch the coil over to low power hold when cradling a ball.

I'm not sure why the coils don't match...I'm not near mine to check, but I would assume they should match on this game. Someone has replaced one (or both) at one point for some reason, and you will be dealing with different strengths on each flipper as one is stronger than the other. It may not even be noticeable, so I wouldn't worry about it yet.

Check out vid's guide to rebuilding flippers. It'll help you understand the theory of operation and how to check everything.

Welcome to the joys of pinball ownership!

2 weeks later
#4758 1 year ago

The unfortunate reality of most of the problems with the gate, after going through leveling and adjusting everything multiple times, is that they are almost always remedied by taking the mech apart and cleaning it/replacing the sleeve. Of course, that simple task requires basically a full top side tear down to access it. You can "almost" access and remove it from under the playfield, but my bear paws couldn't fit in there. I look at it as an excuse to freshly shop the game.

10 months later
#5055 5 months ago
Quoted from DrGonzo:

So my fuse F1 for the right shark flipper started getting blown tonight. Replaced it and it blows right away again. Right away as in when I use the flipper button maybe twice. It then got slow and finally stopped working.
Any ideas how to proceed? Where should I look?
[quoted image]

Have you raised/lowered the playfield and possibly dragged the main harness across the cabinet mounted flipper boards?

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