(Topic ID: 168122)

Battery leak in NGG, Suggestions please

By Robl45

7 years ago


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NGG security chip (resized).png
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#1 7 years ago

I'm beside myself at my stupidity at this point, Games put away for 5 years and two of them have batteries in them, don't know about the third. I knew to take the batteries out, I just can't believe it. Anyway, on my other thread, TOM was okay, this is NGG, I fear I need a new board?

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#4 7 years ago

2011 expiration. Duracell. Is there no way to send it out for repair or clean off the acid? These things seem to be 300 dollars with the chips. Thats 300 more than I have at the moment. LOL. Are the chips I need to remove on the new blank board damaged too? Some of the socketed ones look damaged.

#6 7 years ago

ebay.com link: Williams Pinball WPC 95 CPU MPU PCB Board A 20119 For Parts or Repair

What about this? Is it possible to see from the pics if its good? What chips would I need to replace? The rom seems fine as its on the other side of the board.

I can't just soak the whole board in vinegar and water, dry it out and try it? What happens if I just turn it on as is? Smoke and explosiions or it just won't work correctly?

#10 7 years ago

So I can't clean this board or at least attempt it? I figured I could at least try and clean it. Is it safe to drop the whole thing in vinegar and water or do parts have to be removed first? I figure its worth a shot.

#18 7 years ago

So I pulled the board out. back looks okay, pulled out the rom and security chip. The security chip on the a couple of legs had some green, but looks okay, Can I just clean that with vinegar? I would like to try and clean this board just for the heck of it before I spend more money, I"m just unsure if I can dump the whole thing in vinegar and let it sit like I did for the corroded battery holder in TOM. Is that okay for the chips? Then assuming cleaning fails, is there a recommended place to get this from? Is it easy enough to get the ASIC out or should I get a special tool? saw something about doing it with 2 paperclips.

#20 7 years ago

Don't know didn't try, figured I should at least attempt to clean first. Waiting on proper way to do it before I try.

Quoted from jawjaw:

Does the game run? My Congo had a corroded mpu. Worked okay up until it wouldn't boot. Rottendog replacement was only $135. I used all my chips but needed new ribbon cables.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Just dunking the whole board will guarantee the damage to spread faster. There is much more involved in just cleaning parts. You must remove the parts that were hit, sand down traces, clean the areas that were affected with vinegar and then follow with alcohol, and then install new parts. Many hours involved in doing the job right.

You would need a special PLCC chip puller to remove the U9 ASIC chip.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-ICE

I get that, however I'm not doing that,I just want to give it a shot before going out and buying a new board for 200 plus dollars. Can the chips safely get wet? Is that a problem? Worse case I need a new board, but no harm in trying to see if I can salvage this one.

As for the puller, I can get that chip puller, saw it mentioned somewhere, but is it definately a no go on the paper clip method I saw mentioned? Someone else sells a tool that says you lift up a bit on one end and then move the tool to the other end, that sounds risky to me.

-2
#27 7 years ago

Right now I'd just like to find the right way to clean it. In theory I could potentially do some of the repairs depending on how bad it is, but I need to clean it off first. I don't see what the big issue is, worse case I destroy the board, best case I save 200 dollars.

Quoted from Homepin:

There is no short cut here. If you "just try it" by half heartedly cleaning it and drying you not only risk damaging other things in the machine BUT also damaging the chips you need to re-use in any new board you might buy.
You have four choices as I see it.
(1) Send the board out and pay to have it repaired ($150 ???)
(2) Buy a replacement and swap over your chips ($200 ???)
(3) Sell the machine "as-is" and walk away from it
(4) Try your patch-it methods (which will not work) and risk damaging more and end up costing $????? - probably hundreds
There is NO short cut here. There is damage to the electronics and it must be fixed PROPERLY or replaced - end of story.

#30 7 years ago

You guys are right, the board is in bad shape, I"m going to have to get a new one unfortunately. So how about salvaging the chips. The Rom is fine, the ASIC I believe is fine. The Security chip and other other chip each have one or two legs that were green, but they both look fine, can I salvage those chips? I could try to send the board to get repaired if that would be cheaper, but its definitely more than I can handle.

#33 7 years ago

Who is rob Anthony? Will it be cheaper than a new board?

Edit: found and emailed him.

Does anyone think my chips will be okay to move to new board?

#39 7 years ago

The batteries expired in 2011. What would I say to Duracell? Chris and John responded. Not econical to repair. Now I just have to figure out if I buy full board with chips or try to reuse mine.

#51 7 years ago

All 3 people got back to me, all said it would not be economical to fix. Unfortunately, while I know how to solder and have done so for years, soldering small things like this is not something I'm good at. I did change a board connector and some other minor parts on Dr. Dude years back and it took quite a bit of time and that was before a wife and two little kids. I'll bite the bullet and get the board. If I open Dr. Dude and have a problem, I might consider trying to do it, but if I was stupid enough to forget the batteries in all 3, I might just ask the wife to back over me with the SUV. LOL

So main question, can I save the 3 chips? pics of the two I got out. The ASIC is still in the board and hopefully okay.

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#58 7 years ago

I called. 2to3 weeks to get the paperwork and 6 to 8 weeks to get it settled. I need to call them with the battery info.

Quoted from brainmegaphone:

Woah. Well I eat my words and stand corrected then! Perhaps the companies are so service / customer driven they don't care if you follow the dates? I guess the OP should call!
Side note - I stand by my statement that no one should be using batteries on their boards though. NVRAM all the way.

#68 7 years ago

I have the batteries, as I understand, they might just need pictures of the stuff. I called and told them the expiration date of the batteries, twice in fact and they didn't say that invalidates it. Back looks perfect to me.

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#70 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm surprised they are not asking for it to be shipped to them so they can destroy the board once they receive it.
Back of the board, I see there is some corrosion that made it through under the CPU socket and already it even started to run down the traces from the pins that you can see that were hit. I am surprised I do not see any worse damage than this.

Right now I"m waiting for the package from them, they said 2-3 weeks and then 6-8 weeks to get some money or something. Not thrilled about not having the game for 3 months, but we will see how it plays out. I might have to send the board, but they seem to have this confusion about it being a pinball machine and not being able to send it to them, so I'm thinking pictures are probably going to suffice. I'm under the impression they would actually send someone to the house to install the board if I couldn't do it as they were asking about how the piece would get repaired and such and I explained I took out the board, how much a new one costs and that I could install it.

#73 7 years ago

Lock when lit site appears cheapest I think when factoring in shipping. Most places want 13 plus in shipping. However I have to wait because I need to know whether to get New chips. I'd prefer that, but I need to know what they cover first.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Well, I would think you can go ahead and buy the new MPU now. They will not be buying it for you. It would be good to have the receipt showing the cost of the board to help move that process out faster. Even if they decide not to cut you a check, you need it anyway.
The Rottendog board I posted a link to for $175 plus shipping was the cheapest I found at this time. Anyone else?

#77 7 years ago

One place does. But they are high on shipping. Ksarcade
Amazon has it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00SL1J3US/ref=dp_olp_new

#78 7 years ago

Both 6809 and security chip are damaged. Asic might be too. There is leakage right next to it. Honestly I think I'd like to have this board repaired if they will do it. Thread I read on here says aftermarket board hurts value.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Use the chips that you have. Knowing that the board can be bought without the chips, it seems that was they will base the price on. Only the Security chip seems suspect at this time. Clean it has someone recommended and see what happens. If it works out that the security chip fails, then you'll have to add that to the list with the MPU to try and reimbursement for.

#80 7 years ago

Yea the two chips are definitely damaged. That's not to say they wouldn't work but definitely damaged. I'd have to confirm on whether it could be repaired correctly. Everyone seemed to think it could but it was the same as buying a new board. I don't think this is one of the Games that is reported to have problems with the board but I don't want to kill value of I ever sell it. Although out of Tom Dr. Dude and this, ngg is likely to never leave.

#84 7 years ago

So I'm being stupid to worry about the MPU board replacement on resale value?

#88 7 years ago

So I got the package from Duracell today. I called and asked if I could take pictures and they want the board. However, they have a whole page devoted to them destroying the board and me signing to acknowledge that. I wrote on the page that under no circumstances are they to destroy my rare circuit board without compensating me. I'm going to call tomorrow and confirm as they said they would send the board back if they couldn't compensate me, but I really don't want to risk 300 dollars worth of board and chips getting destroyed.

#91 7 years ago

Original boards are almost impossible to find, I can't find one. I could sell this for something, regardless if its a little bit of money, its still something. I have no problem if they destroy the board, hang it on their wall, lick it etc, as long as they compensate me, but sending it in so they can destroy it and then say sorry we can't give you anything doesn't really work too well for me. I'm sending it and we will see what they say, I clearly marked they don't have permission to destroy it. Its not like they have to do anything to it, you can't miss the battery damage.

Quoted from Homepin:

Your board isn't rare, it's a little expensive sure, that's why you are asking them for compensation. If they paid me 50% of replacement value I would be overjoyed - the board has already seen out its design service life well and truly.
Owning these machines is an expensive exercise - sometimes you just have to suck up the cost I'm afraid.
I think you need to accept that you made an error and think yourself lucky that they are offering at least some money towards fixing the machine.

#92 7 years ago

Board sent out to duracell, hopefully they respond in less than 6-8 weeks.

#94 7 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

After looking for how many days?

I searched google, didn't find one aside from unassembled boards.

#97 7 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

That was just a little bit of sarcasm. Lots of us have looked for rare parts that took years to track down. I see decent used boards on eBay from time to time. Don't give up that easily.

Understood, I have looked on and off for 16 years for a Dr. Dude ramp, never found one. For the original board, is it WPC 95 MPU you search for or would the original go by something else?

1 month later
#102 7 years ago

So after all this Duracell writes back and says the batteries were not defective, apparently leaking batteries is normal for duracell. Apparently the best before date means you must use them before that date, call me crazy, but this isn't milk. At any rate they are supposedly sending a check for half the amount in the next 5-6 weeks.

#105 7 years ago

So best I've found so far is K's arcade for 288.92 with shipping for the board with all the chips. Anyone know where or if I can find cheaper? I"m thinking probably not, but figured I would ask. I have the rom and it appears completely free of damage, the other chips were sent to duracell so I would need the board, security chip, asic and 68b09.

#106 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Even though they are way out of the expiration date, I am glad to see they are still paying something out on it. Was no guarantee they would. As always, it is good to inquire anyway.

Yea, but what bothers me is its not an expiration date, they even go on to say that they guarantee that the cells will be fresh if used before this freshness date. So say the date is march 2011 and they were just sitting in the package until february 2011, they should be good to use. Then they go on to say the best before date does not indicate how long a battery will last in your device. So basically what they are saying is. It could last a day or 10 years and we will use that to try to get out of our batteries leaking. Honestly I don't buy name brand batteries anymore as they all do the same thing. Oh well, lesson learned, and time to find the parts and get this thing working. I also can't understand how they can send a letter, but another piece of paper with a check takes 5-6 weeks.

#110 7 years ago

The new board at least is remote batteries. I just hope to god I remembered to take the batteries out of Dr. Dude. That board is 300 bucks by itself.

#113 7 years ago

Nope no parts back. 150 bucks though. Parts had some green on them anyway.

As for Dr Dude. I don't have the room right now. Have to get ngg done and setup.

So the ram nvram if I want to add on new board is just plug in socket?

#116 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

When you said half, I thought you were going to say $75. Good. so this should cover the Rottendog board at least.

Whole thing shipped with chips is 288 And Change so it covers just over Half. I estimated about 300 total to replace ..

#119 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes, the Rottendog board has the old RAM in a socket. So only have to remove the part and install the NVRAM. No soldering.

Where would I get the ram? Any pinball nvram work on this?

#121 7 years ago

http://nvram.weebly.com/ is this site any good?

#123 7 years ago

finally back together. Now that its back together, can anyone recommend some balls? I got 4 of 6 right now because two of them were rusty.

#125 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

With NVRAM? And result is?

Nope not yet but the batteries can't leak on the board. It's working. Tested a couple balls. Wanted the kids to get to play tonight.

#127 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Good. Happy playing. Now get the Dr Dude opened up very soon!!

Thanks, I am moving some of the stuff in here so hopefully that goes up shortly. Next task is to fix the bulbs that decided to stop working in NGG. Had same problem in TOM and not one of them was dead, had to wiggle all of them to get them working.

#130 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Oh the fantastic 555 lamp sockets.

That will be the adventure this weekend. Gotta get those balls ordered too.

#131 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

With NVRAM? And result is?

speaking of the nvram, I just looked and indeed the ram is socketed. but its 62256 ram and its rottendog wpc-95 that I read a little bit has an issue using other ram, do you know anything about that?

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