(Topic ID: 168122)

Battery leak in NGG, Suggestions please


By Robl45

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 132 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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MPU back damage (resized).png
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NGG security chip (resized).png
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There are 132 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 2 years ago

All 3 people got back to me, all said it would not be economical to fix. Unfortunately, while I know how to solder and have done so for years, soldering small things like this is not something I'm good at. I did change a board connector and some other minor parts on Dr. Dude years back and it took quite a bit of time and that was before a wife and two little kids. I'll bite the bullet and get the board. If I open Dr. Dude and have a problem, I might consider trying to do it, but if I was stupid enough to forget the batteries in all 3, I might just ask the wife to back over me with the SUV. LOL

So main question, can I save the 3 chips? pics of the two I got out. The ASIC is still in the board and hopefully okay.

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#52 2 years ago

Chips might be ok. Try cleaning the legs with vinegar and a toothbrush if they are green. Then rinse/wipe with 99% isopropyl alcohol

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

Calling things "acid damaged" could mislead some so they start trying to neutralise it using an alkaline and that is what I would like to avoid.

Yes, you're right. I probably should have worded my original response better and I apologize for any confusion. But I have tackled many boards with the alkaline damage and have been able to bring them back. It just takes time and effort.

#54 2 years ago

I had a damaged board just this last spring and the batteries were dated 2012. Eveready paid for 100% of the repair and thanked me for using their batteries.

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

I had a damaged board just this last spring and the batteries were dated 2012. Eveready paid for 100% of the repair and thanked me for using their batteries.

Woah. Well I eat my words and stand corrected then! Perhaps the companies are so service / customer driven they don't care if you follow the dates? I guess the OP should call!

Side note - I stand by my statement that no one should be using batteries on their boards though. NVRAM all the way.

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from brainmegaphone:

Woah. Well I eat my words and stand corrected then! Perhaps the companies are so service / customer driven they don't care if you follow the dates? I guess the OP should call!
Side note - I stand by my statement that no one should be using batteries on their boards though. NVRAM all the way.

The dates on the battery are for shelf life and are about the battery being at full strength - not a 'they will explode by date'

If you use the batteries to their spec, they will support people that have had damage from their products. All it takes is a simple phone call, and if its expensive stuff, or questionable, they require more proof of damage, value, etc. Long term storage might raise some objections if that were disclosed...

#58 2 years ago

I called. 2to3 weeks to get the paperwork and 6 to 8 weeks to get it settled. I need to call them with the battery info.

Quoted from brainmegaphone:

Woah. Well I eat my words and stand corrected then! Perhaps the companies are so service / customer driven they don't care if you follow the dates? I guess the OP should call!
Side note - I stand by my statement that no one should be using batteries on their boards though. NVRAM all the way.

#59 2 years ago
Quoted from brainmegaphone:

Woah. Well I eat my words and stand corrected then! Perhaps the companies are so service / customer driven they don't care if you follow the dates? I guess the OP should call!

As I said, even if it is a partial refund of a new board, it is worth taking the time to call the manufacture. I deal with all types of electronic warranty issues at work, some well out of the "expired date" range.

You can now go drink your 5 year old milk.

Quoted from brainmegaphone:

Side note - I stand by my statement that no one should be using batteries on their boards though. NVRAM all the way.

I agree 100%. I've been upgrading people's games to NVRAM as part of any repair I do on a game for the past 2 years as well as any working games that I sell.

#60 2 years ago

By the way, NVRAM makes a really nice birthday/Christmas gift to any fellow pin collector/friend.

#61 2 years ago

Now it seems you will get some money back on your damaged board so you should be able to buy the correct tool for removing the ASIC chip. Do not use a paper clip unless you want to buy a $40+ ASIC part next.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You would need a special PLCC chip puller to remove the U9 ASIC chip.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-ICE

#62 2 years ago

Robl45. can you please post a picture of the backside of the MPU for us? I like to see how bad it was hit.

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

As for the puller, I can get that chip puller, saw it mentioned somewhere, but is it definately a no go on the paper clip method I saw mentioned? Someone else sells a tool that says you lift up a bit on one end and then move the tool to the other end, that sounds risky to me.

Use the proper tool. Using anything else to try to pry it out *will* fracture and damage the chip. The ASIC chip is a $50-$65+ component these days, so it's worth it to spend the $5-$10 on the proper chip puller.

#64 2 years ago
Quoted from marcocapetown:

its more a time thing as in what they talk about "economical" parts wise its not crazy unless im missing something ?

If you had ever repaired an alkaline damaged board you would know better. The worst part of this board is going to be under the parts where the alkaline collects and destroys the connection points, several IC will need through hole repairs, the labor is going to take several hours.

I no longer accept any alkaline damaged boards for repair no matter how minor it looks, as its always much worse.

#65 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

So main question, can I save the 3 chips? pics of the two I got out. The ASIC is still in the board and hopefully okay.

With the cost of the security chip, I would try and salvage it; if it doesn't work, the worst that will happen is the game wont boot.

#66 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

I called. 2to3 weeks to get the paperwork and 6 to 8 weeks to get it settled. I need to call them with the battery info.

Please let us know how this turns out.

#67 2 years ago

Sure hope you kept the batteries in a Ziploc bag as they will have to be shipped with the MPU.

#68 2 years ago

I have the batteries, as I understand, they might just need pictures of the stuff. I called and told them the expiration date of the batteries, twice in fact and they didn't say that invalidates it. Back looks perfect to me.

20160906_190315 (resized).jpg

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

I have the batteries, as I understand, they might just need pictures of the stuff. I called and told them the expiration date of the batteries, twice in fact and they didn't say that invalidates it. Back looks perfect to me.

I'm surprised they are not asking for it to be shipped to them so they can destroy the board once they receive it.

Back of the board, I see there is some corrosion that made it through under the CPU socket and already it even started to run down the traces from the pins that you can see that were hit. I am surprised I do not see any worse damage than this.MPU back damage (resized).png

#70 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm surprised they are not asking for it to be shipped to them so they can destroy the board once they receive it.
Back of the board, I see there is some corrosion that made it through under the CPU socket and already it even started to run down the traces from the pins that you can see that were hit. I am surprised I do not see any worse damage than this.

Right now I"m waiting for the package from them, they said 2-3 weeks and then 6-8 weeks to get some money or something. Not thrilled about not having the game for 3 months, but we will see how it plays out. I might have to send the board, but they seem to have this confusion about it being a pinball machine and not being able to send it to them, so I'm thinking pictures are probably going to suffice. I'm under the impression they would actually send someone to the house to install the board if I couldn't do it as they were asking about how the piece would get repaired and such and I explained I took out the board, how much a new one costs and that I could install it.

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Right now I"m waiting for the package from them, they said 2-3 weeks and then 6-8 weeks to get some money or something. Not thrilled about not having the game for 3 months, but we will see how it plays out.

Well, I would think you can go ahead and buy the new MPU now. They will not be buying it for you. It would be good to have the receipt showing the cost of the board to help move that process out faster. Even if they decide not to cut you a check, you need it anyway.

The Rottendog board I posted a link to for $175 plus shipping was the cheapest I found at this time. Anyone else?

#72 2 years ago

Yup buy the board now if you want, then get your refund later.
Atleast then it's playable.

#73 2 years ago

Lock when lit site appears cheapest I think when factoring in shipping. Most places want 13 plus in shipping. However I have to wait because I need to know whether to get New chips. I'd prefer that, but I need to know what they cover first.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Well, I would think you can go ahead and buy the new MPU now. They will not be buying it for you. It would be good to have the receipt showing the cost of the board to help move that process out faster. Even if they decide not to cut you a check, you need it anyway.
The Rottendog board I posted a link to for $175 plus shipping was the cheapest I found at this time. Anyone else?

#75 2 years ago

Use the chips that you have. Knowing that the board can be bought without the chips, it seems that was they will base the price on. Only the Security chip seems suspect at this time. Clean it has someone recommended and see what happens. If it works out that the security chip fails, then you'll have to add that to the list with the MPU to try and reimbursement for.

#76 2 years ago

They have been in business long time.

So far, every place we found who sells the new MPU board, doesn't sell the PLCC chip puller that you need.

#77 2 years ago

One place does. But they are high on shipping. Ksarcade
Amazon has it.

amazon.com link »

#78 2 years ago

Both 6809 and security chip are damaged. Asic might be too. There is leakage right next to it. Honestly I think I'd like to have this board repaired if they will do it. Thread I read on here says aftermarket board hurts value.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Use the chips that you have. Knowing that the board can be bought without the chips, it seems that was they will base the price on. Only the Security chip seems suspect at this time. Clean it has someone recommended and see what happens. If it works out that the security chip fails, then you'll have to add that to the list with the MPU to try and reimbursement for.

#79 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Both 6809 and security chip are damaged. Asic might be too. There is leakage right next to it. Honestly I think I'd like to have this board repaired if they will do it. Thread I read on here says aftermarket board hurts value.

I did not notice any damage to the 6809 itself, but to the socket. Though, it is not always easy to tell on pictures either. Any parts hit by corrosion, I would add it to the list of what needs to be included with the MPU. So now it looks like you need a MPU (or original repaired), 6809, and security chip at the least. So now, you need to hunt down someone willing to do the repair to the board. Problem is, they can replace all the affected parts and still have an issue they possibly may not be able to resolve without adding wires.

I would get a new replacement if this with Duracell works out. You could always buy an original board in the future, which will be tough and it will obviously cost more, and sell the new Replacement after you get an original board.

To most people, it doesn't affect value. Some will argue that just because they like the original boards. Most people just want a working game..

Another thing you can do is start a wanted to buy thread looking for an original 100% working original board. It is possible that Duracell could potentially approve that as a replacement board.

#80 2 years ago

Yea the two chips are definitely damaged. That's not to say they wouldn't work but definitely damaged. I'd have to confirm on whether it could be repaired correctly. Everyone seemed to think it could but it was the same as buying a new board. I don't think this is one of the Games that is reported to have problems with the board but I don't want to kill value of I ever sell it. Although out of Tom Dr. Dude and this, ngg is likely to never leave.

#81 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Both 6809 and security chip are damaged. Asic might be too. There is leakage right next to it. Honestly I think I'd like to have this board repaired if they will do it. Thread I read on here says aftermarket board hurts value.

Let's be clear - average Pinsider will look in the game and say "repaired board? I'm offering you $100 less". That same person will look in the next game and say "Repo board? Offering you $100 less".

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Yea the two chips are definitely damaged. That's not to say they wouldn't work but definitely damaged. I'd have to confirm on whether it could be repaired correctly. Everyone seemed to think it could but it was the same as buying a new board

Then sounds like you need to hunt down a working original WPC95 MPU.

#83 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Thread I read on here says aftermarket board hurts value.

#84 2 years ago

So I'm being stupid to worry about the MPU board replacement on resale value?

#85 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

So I'm being stupid to worry about the MPU board replacement on resale value?

Unless it's a mint collector quality restoration I wouldn't worry about it.

#86 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

So I'm being stupid to worry about the MPU board replacement on resale value?

Correct. Makes no sense. All that matters is the game works and it's stable. Just as many people are happy to see new stable tech in there as people who would want to see an original board. It's a total push in my humble opinion. Anyone who beats you up over it was just looking to beat you up on the price anyway.

Keep the original board for a hardcore buyer who wants it... let them fix it!

#87 2 years ago

I think I got my bare board from here:

https://ksarcade.net/rottendog-wpc-95-security-cpu-plug-and-play-a-20119-a-21377-mpu095.html

Guess I remember wrong about it being $135. Cheapest seems to be $175. Either way, it was a great deal for me because my mpu board was in bad shape. Repairs would of been costly and no gaurantee to work. You can always pursue getting the original board repaired and use the Rottendog in the meantime. You can always sell whichever one you are not going to keep.

#88 2 years ago

So I got the package from Duracell today. I called and asked if I could take pictures and they want the board. However, they have a whole page devoted to them destroying the board and me signing to acknowledge that. I wrote on the page that under no circumstances are they to destroy my rare circuit board without compensating me. I'm going to call tomorrow and confirm as they said they would send the board back if they couldn't compensate me, but I really don't want to risk 300 dollars worth of board and chips getting destroyed.

#89 2 years ago

I don't think I'd reuse any of the ICs if they had any alkaline on them. If it spreads to the new board, then you've got another junk board.

The expense sucks, no doubt.

I have become a lot stricter on what battery damaged boards I will take on for repair. Pictures never depict alkaline damage accurately - its always worse than it looks. It takes hours to clean up properly, and you can repair 3-4 other boards in the time it takes to fix 1.

#90 2 years ago

Your board isn't rare, it's a little expensive sure, that's why you are asking them for compensation. If they paid me 50% of replacement value I would be overjoyed - the board has already seen out its design service life well and truly.

Owning these machines is an expensive exercise - sometimes you just have to suck up the cost I'm afraid.

I think you need to accept that you made an error and think yourself lucky that they are offering at least some money towards fixing the machine.

#91 2 years ago

Original boards are almost impossible to find, I can't find one. I could sell this for something, regardless if its a little bit of money, its still something. I have no problem if they destroy the board, hang it on their wall, lick it etc, as long as they compensate me, but sending it in so they can destroy it and then say sorry we can't give you anything doesn't really work too well for me. I'm sending it and we will see what they say, I clearly marked they don't have permission to destroy it. Its not like they have to do anything to it, you can't miss the battery damage.

Quoted from Homepin:

Your board isn't rare, it's a little expensive sure, that's why you are asking them for compensation. If they paid me 50% of replacement value I would be overjoyed - the board has already seen out its design service life well and truly.
Owning these machines is an expensive exercise - sometimes you just have to suck up the cost I'm afraid.
I think you need to accept that you made an error and think yourself lucky that they are offering at least some money towards fixing the machine.

#92 2 years ago

Board sent out to duracell, hopefully they respond in less than 6-8 weeks.

#93 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Original boards are almost impossible to find, I can't find one.

After looking for how many days?

#94 2 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

After looking for how many days?

I searched google, didn't find one aside from unassembled boards.

#95 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Original boards are almost impossible to find, I can't find one.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Another thing you can do is start a wanted to buy thread looking for an original 100% working original board. It is possible that Duracell could potentially approve that as a replacement board.

#96 2 years ago

That was just a little bit of sarcasm. Lots of us have looked for rare parts that took years to track down. I see decent used boards on eBay from time to time. Don't give up that easily.

#97 2 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

That was just a little bit of sarcasm. Lots of us have looked for rare parts that took years to track down. I see decent used boards on eBay from time to time. Don't give up that easily.

Understood, I have looked on and off for 16 years for a Dr. Dude ramp, never found one. For the original board, is it WPC 95 MPU you search for or would the original go by something else?

#98 2 years ago

I don't mean this in a mean way... but why is having an original board important? Especially since you'll almost have to definitely buy one that is broken - and it sounds like you probably don't have the ability to repair it (I know I wouldn't either...)

You'll potentially spend far more on an original board than a new one.

If you think it somehow preserves the value of your game - you are wrong. The number of buyers that it REALLY deep down truly matters to (deal breaker) could be counted on one hand and every last one of them isn't likely to pay enough for the game to make it worth you spending the extra cash... or just let them buy your game and track their own board down.

Honestly not trying to be critical in any way - just trying to understand if you are just reluctant to use the replacement board for any reason?

Unless you are dealing with Comic Book Guy keeping things in a mint package - having a new board is much better. You know that part of the game is new and stable.

#99 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

I searched google, didn't find one aside from unassembled boards.

You are not the only person in the world looking for the same board.

I state this for the 3rd time.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Another thing you can do is start a wanted to buy thread looking for an original 100% working original board.

I have better luck finding parts I need using wanted ads over searching endlessly sometimes for years for parts I need.

#100 2 years ago
Quoted from Robl45:

Original boards are almost impossible to find, I can't find one.

I don't think wpc95 mpu boards are that rare. I see one on ebay for $85 but not sure if it works. Plenty of Rottendog ones out there. That's what I got for my Congo. Like pinballmaniac40 says, ask around.

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