(Topic ID: 227267)

SOLVED: Batman Forever DMD half on issue


By jmountjoy111

7 months ago



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  • 70 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 7 months ago

So I picked up a Batman forever today and it has some dmd issues. Most of the time the screen is half lit and dim like in the pic. Some of the screens light the bottom half and it’s bright like it’s supposed to be. Sometimes it just works altogether but never for long.

I’m just looking for a little advice on where to begin. I’ve not worked on many sega pins. Is this most likely a power supply issue?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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#2 7 months ago

Bad display ROMs?

#3 7 months ago

Power supply problems are quite common on this machine and often affect the performance of the large dmd. Do you have the service bulletin that directs owners to a power supply update?
There is a harness that helps or alleviates power supply issues.
Pinball life almost always has them in stock.
Another common issue is the connectors and the large ribbon cable for the dmd.
If I don't play mine for awhile I have to reseat, reseat, reseat the "z"connector and ribbon cable, as well as the others.
These two suggestions often remedy dmd issues on this machine.
Start with these and let us know if anything helps.

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

So I picked up a Batman forever today and it has some dmd issues. Most of the time the screen is half lit and dim like in the pic. Some of the screens light the bottom half and it’s bright like it’s supposed to be. Sometimes it just works altogether but never for long.
I’m just looking for a little advice on where to begin. I’ve not worked on many sega pins. Is this most likely a power supply issue?
Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
[quoted image][quoted image]

Check the connector to the power board on the upper right. This machine ALWAYS has issues with that connector and the power supply in general.

#5 7 months ago

It has the harness on it but it looks a little hacked up. I went ahead and ordered a new one just to be sure.

I will pull the power supply this evening and start checking for bad solder and connectors. I know the data east boards were notorious for bad fuse clips so I will check those too. I’m just hoping it’s a power thing and not a dmd thing. I’ll report back this evening what I find

#6 7 months ago

I would definitely replace and repin the connector to the DMD, as rollitover said above. That’s commonly very flaky on all 6 large DMD Sega games. Even if that’s not your issue now, it will become an issue later making the display cut out totally during gameplay.

#7 7 months ago

Ok so I reflowed all the pins on the power supply and the dmd controller board. I also replaced the 26 pin ribbon cable. The machine was missing a bunch of board screws so I replaced all that were missing in case of grounding issues. I also just to make sure, tried a rottendog mpu in the game.

Any ideas on where to go next? If the screen is bad I’m ok with ordering a color screen I just want to make sure that’s what the problem is first.

#8 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Ok so I reflowed all the pins on the power supply and the dmd controller board. I also replaced the 26 pin ribbon cable. The machine was missing a bunch of board screws so I replaced all that were missing in case of grounding issues. I also just to make sure, tried a rottendog mpu in the game.
Any ideas on where to go next? If the screen is bad I’m ok with ordering a color screen I just want to make sure that’s what the problem is first.

You don't have another SEGA game to make the swap and see if the display underperforms there, too?

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

You don't have another SEGA game to make the swap and see if the display underperforms there, too?

Unfortunately I do not.

#10 7 months ago

Try posting in the
Batman Forever Club thread.
You might get more insight, opinions and suggestions.

#11 7 months ago

Ok so I got the harness on from pinball life. I replaced the hacked up one that was on it but the display is no different.

Anyone have any idea what would cause the dmd to do this?

#12 7 months ago

I wish I knew more so I could help you further.
You might try researching this forum on anything to do with "dmd" or more specifically Sega large dmd.
There were a small number of machines made with the large dmd so you might investigate those Club threads if you haven't done so already.
Might be a bit time consuming but might be worth a try.

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Ok so I got the harness on from pinball life. I replaced the hacked up one that was on it but the display is no different.
Anyone have any idea what would cause the dmd to do this?

Can you take a video of it in the display test mode (row/column test) to give a better idea of what it's doing in action?

#15 7 months ago

Hopefully this will help. I am deifntley no master at sega pinball. I just figure that if the screen lights up like that that it is probably good and something else is to blame. But once again I know nothing of sega dmd so just looking for any help I can get

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Hopefully this will help. I am deifntley no master at sega pinball. I just figure that if the screen lights up like that that it is probably good and something else is to blame. But once again I know nothing of sega dmd so just looking for any help I can get

Thanks for the video. I was expecting the row test line to drop out at the halfway point where you lose the bottom half of the screen, thinking it was the IC that manages the rows on the display. But that doesn't happen. So, back to the drawing board.

Definitely wondering if it's one of the Display EEPROMs that is going bad. Do you have access to an EEPROM burner?

Also, can you take a nice-res picture of the DMD controller board on the back of the display (without the connectors, so it's a full picture) and upload that here with full res (click the dropdown box before uploading)...

#17 7 months ago

Here’s mine if that helps at all. It looks like whoever had my game temporarily before I bought it back cracked the connector and put a tie around it. Thanks for making me look.

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#18 7 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Here’s mine if that helps at all. It looks like whoever had my game temporarily before I bought it back cracked the connector and put a tie around it. Thanks for making me look.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks, but I still would like to see the one on his machine (without the connectors, and with the board lined up to use all the resolution in the picture) in case something jumps out at me (suspect solder connection, etc).

I really am leaning toward an issue with the display ROMS, especially since the screen itself passes the row and column test fine.

#19 7 months ago

Here is a picture. My phone is crappy and the lighting isn’t great. I can move the machine if you need a better one

I don’t have a rom burner. But I can order a set of ROMs for it

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#20 7 months ago

Use the flash on your phone and brighten it up 'eh.
Flashlight even.

#21 7 months ago

This one should be better. I can take more. Just let me know what you need

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#22 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Here is a picture. My phone is crappy and the lighting isn’t great. I can move the machine if you need a better one
I don’t have a rom burner. But I can order a set of ROMs for it
[quoted image]

If you can edit that post and re-post that picture, but before you drag and drop it or pick it using the button, select "original size (no rescaling)" so pinside doesn't limit the resolution, that would help. The one you posted was resized to the default pinside medium res.

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#23 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

This one should be better. I can take more. Just let me know what you need
[quoted image]

The first one was better because the board was full-frame. So more like the first, but with flash or some extra lighting and pinside resize off when you upload should be perfect.

#24 7 months ago

B74CCE9E-0FC1-4A03-88D9-66DFB7EA67F6.jpeg

#25 7 months ago

Looks like a burned capacitor at C9 (the little orangey yellow ones), right below ROM2 on the board. Possibly some other damage nearby. Still inspecting...

#26 7 months ago

'atta boy
Btw
As a BF owner I am learning right along with you should it ever come up with mine.
Hope you get this resolved.

#27 7 months ago

Here is the back side just in case you need it. I suppose those caps are there for a good reason?

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#28 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Here is the back side just in case you need it. I suppose those caps are there for a good reason?
[quoted image]

The schematic mentions capacitors on the back of the board, so those are probably factory. I think your problem is C9. I'd start by replacing that. Also the corrosion or fire or whatever happened to C9 looks like it might have damaged the corner of the U10 chip and the trace, plus some of the smaller traces that just ran under C9. I'd also check for continuity on that trace that runs up to the top of the board as well as those thinner traces that ran under C9.

#29 7 months ago

Do you happen to know the value right off. I do not have a schematic

#30 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Do you happen to know the value right off. I do not have a schematic

If it's like all the others on the board like it, it's 470pf, but I can't find it on the schematic (the scans are crappy).

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#31 7 months ago

All I had on hand was .1 and .01 so I will order some today. I guess I’m going to go ahead and get a set of ROMs too just in case that is the issue. I really appreciate the help. I’ll post back as soon as I have any more info

#32 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

All I had on hand was .1 and .01 so I will order some today. I guess I’m going to go ahead and get a set of ROMs too just in case that is the issue. I really appreciate the help. I’ll post back as soon as I have any more info

Looking at that damage, I really doubt it's the EEPROMS now. I would get some socket rows and that chip at U10 as well so you can replace it if replacing C9 and cleaning up that area doesn't fix it.

#33 7 months ago

I ordered the chip and sockets too. Looks like it should all be here by Thursday. I’ll install it all after work and post the findings. Thanks. I really appreciate it

#34 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I ordered the chip and sockets too. Looks like it should all be here by Thursday. I’ll install it all after work and post the findings. Thanks. I really appreciate it

Have you unsoldered ICs before? If not, I recommend carefully clipping the legs off then unsoldering one leg at a time. Very easy to lift a trace and make more work for yourself. Do NOT overheat the pads. Add new solder to loosen old solder.

Definitely post how it turns out, there may be other components along that trace besides the chip that were also compromised.

#35 7 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Have you unsoldered ICs before? If not, I recommend carefully clipping the legs off then unsoldering one leg at a time. Very easy to lift a trace and make more work for yourself. Do NOT overheat the pads. Add new solder to loosen old solder.
Definitely post how it turns out, there may be other components along that trace besides the chip that were also compromised.

Yes I have replaced lots of IC before. It is so easy to screw one up for sure. Hopefully it will fix it The shots on the game a pretty cool. I can’t wait to play it while actually knowing what is happening lol

#36 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Yes I have replaced lots of IC before. It is so easy to screw one up for sure. Hopefully it will fix it The shots on the game a pretty cool. I can’t wait to play it while actually knowing what is happening lol

I'll chime in on that point. This one has some really cool features and shots that is for sure.
Looking forward to your next update.

#37 7 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Yes I have replaced lots of IC before. It is so easy to screw one up for sure. Hopefully it will fix it The shots on the game a pretty cool. I can’t wait to play it while actually knowing what is happening lol

You might want to consider this service kit for the display if it's not already done. Prevents freezing and resets on the display due to power dropping below 5v while in use:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=500-6326-00

Service bulletin is on that marco page, too.

#38 7 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

You might want to consider this service kit for the display if it's not already done. Prevents freezing and resets on the display due to power dropping below 5v while in use:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=500-6326-00
Service bulletin is on that marco page, too.

The game had that harness in it when I got it but it had some spliced places in the wiring so I ordered another one and installed it just in case.

#39 6 months ago

Well I replaced the capacitor today and there was no change. New display ROMs were also checked in the game to no avail either. The ic below the cap has. It come in yet so I will have to check it when it does

#40 6 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Well I replaced the capacitor today and there was no change. New display ROMs were also checked in the game to no avail either. The ic below the cap has. It come in yet so I will have to check it when it does

Did you check continuity on all those little traces that ran under C9 (from wherever they started to wherever they end)? They may have been damaged when C9 blew out. I'd do that while you're waiting for the IC.

#41 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Did you check continuity on all those little traces that ran under C9 (from wherever they started to wherever they end)? They may have been damaged when C9 blew out. I'd do that while you're waiting for the IC.

Sounds like a plan. I will start checking those tonight. This thing is driving me crazy. I just hope the screen itself is good. I’d imagine since it lit up in test that it probably is.

#42 6 months ago

Ok so... I checked all the traces. I removed the old chip and inserted a socket. I added the new chip and there is no change in the dmd. The chip came out cleanly and no pads or traces were damaged in removing it. I checked them all before I soldered in the socket. Any idea where to go next

#43 6 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Ok so... I checked all the traces. I removed the old chip and inserted a socket. I added the new chip and there is no change in the dmd. The chip came out cleanly and no pads or traces were damaged in removing it. I checked them all before I soldered in the socket. Any idea where to go next

I need to find a schematic with that C9 on it to see what else is in line with it on the +trace. The one I posted doesn't have that part on at all that I can see. Can you see where the positive trace goes when it goes under the ROM2 bracket and disappears?

#44 6 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

I need to find a schematic with that C9 on it to see what else is in line with it on the +trace. The one I posted doesn't have that part on at all that I can see. Can you see where the positive trace goes when it goes under the ROM2 bracket and disappears?

I will pull it back apart tonight and check.

#45 6 months ago

I tried to see where it goes but it appears to stop at the top right leg on the socket for what would be rom 2.

On another note, a super generous pinsider is going to let me use a known working display to test in my machine. That way I can rule out the display itself as the problem

#46 6 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I tried to see where it goes but it appears to stop at the top right leg on the socket for what would be rom 2.
On another note, a super generous pinsider is going to let me use a known working display to test in my machine. That way I can rule out the display itself as the problem

Great news! It will be interesting to see if it's the display.

#47 6 months ago

I will post as soon as the screen comes in. It may be a few days as it has to be shipped

#48 6 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I will post as soon as the screen comes in. It may be a few days as it has to be shipped

That is good news.
Get closer to the problem that's for sure.

#49 6 months ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I will post as soon as the screen comes in. It may be a few days as it has to be shipped

If anything falls through with that, let me know. I could always send you the one out of my BF for testing.

#50 6 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

If anything falls through with that, let me know. I could always send you the one out of my BF for testing.

I really appreciate that. People complain all the time about pinside being negative but honestly there are so many great people on here.

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