I have some older games and some newer ones (BM66, GBLE). They all dimple, but I do think there is a bit of a difference in how it shows up. If you look at the artwork on the older games, they usually used darker colors and/or a very busy playfield (yes, there are exceptions, and there is no need to point them out to me). Newer games are using brighter colors, and a more polished surface, which makes the dimples stand out. Now before everyone tells me I am smoking something illegal, take a look at your own pins. Sit 2 of them side-by-side and look for the dimples under normal lighting and you will see there are dimples on all of the playfields, however some games are more noticeable than others. The dimples on my BM66 show up more pronounced than my other pins, even though there are less dimples per square inch. Even putting the BM66 and GBLE side by side is a big difference. The GB has a lot more dimples, but they don't show unless you shine a spot light on the field and look for them. Now add in all of the "concern" for defective playfields and how everyone is immediately inspecting everything with a magnifying glass, and you end up with "Dimple Mania".

Annnnnd that kiddies would be why KPG is at the end of the line! lol

And my impression is the game is already a lot of fun and will be even better with more code. I bought mine knowing the code was bare-bones, and I am OK with that since I knew it going in. It's my money, and what I do with it really isn't anyone's concern except maybe my wife...lol. I have no issues with stuck balls, cratering, etc. The one and only problem I had was a ramp issue that I was able to fix with a small rubber pad. Outside of that....I love the pin and am playing the hell out of it.

Actually, I would look at the table if you have that problem. Mine doesn't jerk or stop in the middle at all. It rotates for the shots and multiball etc, and I have never noticed an issue.

And yet I drive by there almost every day and there are no folks outside with pitchforks, or lined up trying to return machines. They have a 2 month backlog, and games keep flowing out the door. These can't all be going to new buyers, so either the problems are not as bad as we all would like to believe, OR, deep down, folks know Stern will stand behind the product and they take the chance, deal with the issues and move on with life. I am not defending or condemning anyone here, I am merely saying if things were as bad as what is posted here on Pinside, they would never sell to a repeat customer. And yes, I know they are the only major player in the market, but we are also talking about very expensive toys that we can all live without. And then again, maybe I just don't understand the business model, but they still have folks lining up to buy the next pin (even at 10K or 15K) , so they have to be doing something right.

Maybe so, but if that were the case, I doubt I would see a parking lot full of cars like I do. Maybe those are the folks returning pins? lol I did hear them say on the CBS story that half of the production goes overseas. If you think it is tough for us to return something, just think about them...........

Oh for gods sake you know what I mean and you are just looking for an argument so you can keep beating the same drum over and over. I wasn't considering investing based on cars, I was simply making an observation that there are a lot of employees obviously showing up for work, which would not be happening if they weren't producing games.......or I guess there is always the possibility Gary is running a used car lot on the side. I can tell you I drive past some of the Sears offices every week, and I see a lot more empty than full parking spaces, so there is that observation as well. I don't know if the backlog is due to incoming orders or if they are waiting on supplies, and neither do you, but you cannot just let anyone express their own thoughts about Stern without trying to stomp them into the dirt. Maybe the videos of the production lines are staged just for your benefit too, so Gary can claim he is too busy to get to your playfield? You just can't stand it that maybe the sky isn't falling, and maybe Stern is taking care of their customers....and maybe, just maybe, you pissed off the guy that was going to fix yours. As I said before, I am not defending anyone......I am just saying they can't be pissing EVEERYONE off, or they would be out of business fast. In the one case I had of a defective product, they made it right and went above and beyond to not only give me a new playfield, but all new parts as well. Yes, it should never have happened, and yes, it took a few months, but who the heck cares....not me. I got a new game after 6 months of play. And for a guy so "done" with Stern, you sure spend a lot of time trolling their threads.

I have absolutely no issue with that...just state your opinion and move on. What I am disagreeing with is the constant attack on anyone who disagrees or says anything he feels is not enough fire and brimstone.

Agreed. I'm sure they will make it right in time, they pretty much have to.

From what he was told, there was a buy-back in the works. As KPG said a few pages back, I am pretty sure this has more to do with his distributor than Stern. I can tell you my Distro went above and beyond to make sure we were taken care of, and other than the time it took, I have no complaints. Maybe the distributor lied about the buy-back, or maybe someone got pissed and pushed his to the back of the line....none of us will probably ever know. Gary is on record saying they will fix these, so it pretty much has to happen.. "when" is the question.

I am going to petition Stern to see if they will add KPG as one of the "minor villains" and code him deep into the game, so if you beat him, you get a new game.......lol (Lightening things up)

I never said cars in a parking lot equated to everything being A-OK at Stern. I said that as a response to your comment about the game backlog possibly being a result of waiting on suppliers. It stands to reason they would not pay people to show up to work if they had nothing to do. Not too many companies I know can do that for very long. That is all I said, and all I meant...nothing more, nothing less. I don't work at Stern, I don't go there, so I knowing nothing about what happens inside. For all I know, the place could be a burned out shell.

I wasn't arguing any of your points and I never told you how wrong you are. In fact, I have agreed with you on a lot of the base reasons why you are angry. I just don't agree on the method for resolution, but that is your path to take, not mine. You let everyone know your bad experience, and I let everyone know my good experience, and there is no need to go over either any more.

To avoid the complaints, how about I actually address the thread we are in...

Other than a couple of bolts coming lose in transit, and putting a rubber spacer under the wire form on my BM66, I have had zero issues with it and am very happy with the hardware. I love the artwork, and this pin sits next to my WOZ so I get to see both displays side by side. I must say, I have grown to like the smaller display better. I try to concentrate on the shots anyway, and although the JJP has beautiful video, there is often more going on there than I can concentrate on. The smaller display with the video clips is just about right for a quick glance. The left orbit of my BM66 was a 'rattler" early on. I don't know if I am getting better at the shot, or just wearing it in, but the rattling happens very seldom anymore. I don't have any issues with balls sticking behind the turn table, game is at 7 degrees. The code is the obvious letdown at this point, but I see hints of some real fun in the future. I just hope sufficient time is allowed for the code to mature give all of the potential. Things I don't like......the red in the topper is not red. Easy to fix and I am being picky, but for a retired cop, I want real red for my lights. I also think the left orbit is actually too easy, as well as the saucer hole next to the crane. I hit that left orbit over and over, and just about every ball drops into that saucer hole. I can see it becoming a point of wear. I don't mind the phone or the TV, but I do think the batmobile spinner looks cheap, and I bet those posts are the first part to snap. Good thing it looks easy and cheap to replace. The ramps are OK, I really have no issue with them and since adding the rubber pad, I haven't had one fly-off. I never played a BDK, so I didn't now if I would like the crane, but it is probably my favorite feature....I just wish it were implemented more. Hopefully the code will bring it into other modes. Overall, I am happy with the game, but I will admit, it did not have enough additional features to justify the additional cost, so my bet is the price on these will drop some on the used market. I knew that would be the case going into the purchase, and I am OK with it. I will get my fun out of the game anyway.

Or just maybe it is because those that own it actually spend more than 5 seconds playing it and don't spend the rest of the day griping about every aspect when they never got past the 1st villain. This is not limited to BM66...this is pretty much any pin. Yes, the people that own it will me more likely to stick up for it, but I disagree with putting everyone in the same can and saying they are all biased. Maybe they actually DO like playing it........

Well I guess I will just be ever so thankful that KPG actually rated BM66 Mediocre.....I figured you were going more for dreadful cause I always set my expectations low when I come here.....lol

Ok, it's fun to discuss pinball and banter back and forth and all......but did you really just compare a voluntary action like owning a pinball machine to Stockholm Syndrome?

For the record, I never said you were dumb...never even implied it. I just asked if the comparison is really one you intended to make. As to the text...all that proves is you can find anything on the internet if you look hard enough. We can draw parallels to many things in life and I am certainly not a psychologist, so who knows....but I also have some personal experience with this on a human level, (battered wife staying with her abuser, kids being kidnapped or abused and not alerting anyone, etc) and I think I know what their reaction would be if you put them in a room and tried to compare a pinball purchase with what they went through. I didn't think the comment was dumb near as much as it was insensitive....

And if you look at who the researchers are you cited....well I doubt they are any kind of psychological experts.....lol

Who We Are:

Stansberry Churchouse Research is the a joint venture between two independent financial publishers, Singapore-based Truewealth Publishing, and Hong Kong-based Churchouse Publishing.

Stansberry Churchouse Research is a subsidiary of Stansberry Research, one of the largest independent financial publishing companies in the world, with subscribers in over 50 countries around the world.

I am sure you are right in many respects...some of this is just human nature. I am pretty happy with the BM66, but I will admit I don't care for a couple of the shots on the turntable. I think they could have made that work better, but it doesn't ruin the game for me to the point where I am disappointed every time I play it. I do hope they concentrate on the code around that part of the game at some point....I don't know what they can do to make it better, but I think when things are less disconnected and more integrated, it will be less noticible. But you know, I have the same feelings over different parts of every pin I own. I absolutely hate the munchkin land playfield on my WOZ, but I can play that game for hours.. It pisses me off when I sometimes launch the ball on my GB and the ball smacks the marshmallow man and dribbles back into the playfield....etc. If a designer ever comes up with the 'perfect' layout........he/she will be hailed as a god and we will all stop looking, trading, buying, and selling. Until then.....play what you like

Now I WILL also admit, the one thing that really pisses me off about ALL of the last few pins I have bought is the insane pricing, and BM66 is at the top of that list. I didn't get an SLE, but there is no reason for the pin to cost what it did. The same goes for many other pins as well. Unfortunately this is also pulling the price of the legacy games up to unaffordable levels as well.

Dude, you are too funny....but it's all good. I don't get how the analogies you are trying to make apply because you are saying things like "hungry enough to eat a horse" is not the same as eating a horse, but I specifically asked if you were making the comparison between a buyer rationalizing his decision and someone having Stockholm Syndrome and you said you were....but I do realize this is a forum and I don't think you actually meant any disrespect. I was just saying if you were an actual victim, and you saw that comment come across your screen, you would probably be offended....but as you say, life is full of things that offend us so we deal with it.

But please do a bit of research on the links you use to prove your points..lol....I don't think a blog post by a guy that was a mediocre software consultant who decided to chuck it all and move to Shanghai and become a life coach qualifies for anything. I am sure there is a more qualified reference out there to use, (and I will concede so there is no need to dig one up), but for the love of Pete be careful what you use to prove a point.......lol Here is another one of his posts on that same board:

My paradox with kids...

I really like kids (and I am a kid at heart).

I would venture to say that I like kids better than 99% of adults do.

And I don't want to have my own kids.

I much prefer to enjoy other people's kids in doses that are optimal for me.

I have no desire to propagate my particular genes.

-Dwight GoldWinde