We all know Lyman is a coding genius- and his track record speaks volumes.

The only thing I would be concerned with BM66, and all pins going forward- is Stern is calling the shots and likely allocating a specific timeline to get BM66 done, and how much they are willing to pay him to finish the game before assigning him to a new pin. I feel their move to the bigger factory, price increases, etc in order to grow the company also comes with some strict adjustments to how these things are designed, coded, announced, then delivered.

I feel GB is a great example of this. Why has there literally been no significant improvements in code for the game since it was released? I think they told Dwight to wrap it up and move on. It's not that Dwight is that much worse of a coder than Lyman, it's likely the fact they are tightening the coding budget because more profit.

I really hope they give Lyman a long leash on this, because what I see now is a game that people spent a lot of money on- and it has a loooong way to go as far as code is concerned.

You make very valid points of course, which is why Lyman is my favorite coder.. and why 3/5 pins I own are his games. I really hope that is the case.. but it is quite sad that he's the only coder at Stern who I have confidence that will see to it that a game gets completed. I look forward to watching BM66 progress and reading feedback from all the owners of the machine.

Congrats guys - the machines look sick.. can't wait to play one of these !

https://www.change.org/p/gary-stern-replace-defective-stern-pinball-machine-playfields

My GB playfield dimples are the worst of any game I have seen, or personally own. But that's not the premise behind my playfield issues, something I noted though- was much worse dimpling than normal.

2017-01-03 21.51.22 (resized).jpg

Iceman, we know dude - you are totally fine with everything- Gary has already put your Size small Stern Army shirt in the mail

You are so wrong brother.. so wrong... and to bet against someone trying to make find resolution for so many people who have been sold defective products is just not cool.

No sense of going around and around about this. It's no surprise that the few people who are not in the position of purchasing defective products w/ no timeline of resolution are quick to give advice on how to remediate the problem, and offer opinions and advice. I appreciate all of your input, criticisms, skepticism, advice, etc. In fact, I appreciate it so much, I personally printed everything on paper and have left it in the guest bathroom in the event I run out of toilet paper.

So... haven't heard much about your BM66LE iceman.

How is it? Are you satisfied it was worth the asking price?

How's the playfield and general build quality?

When I first saw pics of the playfield, I could tell this game was designed and made to put big dollars in Stern's pockets before year end 2016. It's literally a Pro machine, but they got people to spend $15K for a machine that had $400 in extra upgrades at best. Literally, it's such an empty playfield and there's nothing "special" on it besides a gimmicky turn table.

Gary is laughing right to the bank right now. It's no wonder it wasn't playable when it was revealed, and why they collected deposits and started shipping it before showing gameplay.

So, reading between the lines:

The turn table is not awesome, but you are hoping it will be eventually
The code sucks right now, but since it's Lyman, you are hoping it will turn out great
The photoshop artwork isn't as nice as the Zombi Yeti artwork of GB (no surprise)

I'd like to hear whats so fun about it in its current form?

Really? Did you get a bad playfield and get promised half a year ago it would be replaced, then get completely ignored for the past couple months?

You might not whine, but I refuse to get on my knees for people I pay thousands of dollars to for products I expect to be built with pride and quality. Your cheerleading is much louder than my whining, that's for sure.

Hope you didn't get stretch marks on your lips

You are so full of shit, you need to wipe your eyes with toilet paper.

I went MONTHS without saying anything, and praised Gary for calling me. I was silent here for many months without raising hell. It's only when I was getting ignored about my PF request after almost 6 months did I start up again about it.

Also, unbelievable - as much as I want to say "I told you so" to Iceman about his BM66LE, it's pathetic his machine is unplayable right now. Seriously how fuckin sorry is that a product that costs that much is having that many problems. The ironic part is that Iceman himself got a dud. Sure, he's fine with it now- imagine waiting 6 months to make it right!

Total garbage from Stern, yet again. Which is why I'll never buy a NIB from them anymore and I'm not alone.

Ice I hope your machine works 100% very soon and don't have to go through what me and many others went through.

Thanks for this. I guess it's hard for some people to realize the only reason I'm pissed at Stern (now) is because they sold me a $8,000 piece of shit- and 6 months ago Gary promised to make it right, then ignores me for a couple months - months that I didn't even say anything about them here on Pinside.

Funny thing is when I made a stink about it 6 months ago here on Pinside, Gary Stern called me again and asked if I could "turn it down online" because he knew I was creating a shit show. He didn't like that of course. I know he doesn't like it now either lol.

I'm definitely not a consumer that lets companies sell me a $8K POS then come on here and praise it like some of these other jack asses. You know 99% of the people who bought BM66 know it's a turd bucket but will defend their purchase like it's their own child.

PS- dzoomer - that was f*ckin weird you spent all that time reposting me - you need to get a damn life

Exactly.

Which is why my money HASNT been going to Stern.

In the last 3 months I've spent money on other machines that would have went to NIB Sterns.

Instead, this is where my money has gone:

MMR: $8K
TZ: $6K
Jim McCune & HEP restored MB: $12.5

That MB I got for $12.5K makes BM66 look like a wal mart piece of shit. I'm over Stern's Chinese built motorcycle quality machines. Defend them all you want, but they are shipping garbage and people keep blowing their money on these things. So many better pins out there at these prices.

Dude I saw you were selling your BM66 a long time ago - no one wanted to make an offer or did u decide to keep it after all?

Right on man ! Glad you are enjoying it and got a good one!

Man, I can't stand attitudes like this. "Can't afford one" "get a better job" etc.

That's not what this hobby is about.

Get off your soap box, rich guy. This site is about discussing pins and debating if they are fun or not, shitty, or great.

Like Iceman, and some others, we might have our disagreements with certain subjects.

But to come out and start talking about what people can afford and not afford, and about the jobs they do to be a part of this hobby?

Seriously, that's some bullshit post you made... GTFO with that attitude seriously.

Every single person I've met here on Pinside has been awesome people, very down to earth chill dudes who love playing pinball. I know none of them would spout that garbage.. u make people in this hobby look bad.

Ok, glad to hear that - I was like.. dude.. really !?!? haha

Don't take that out of context - that was probably a post regarding how businesses are ran. Nothing about me bragging about what I make or being condescending to others about my situation. Don't even know why you brought that into this thread to be honest, and how you remembered that was 9 months ago. Kind of weird.

I think the problem with Pinside is people take others opinions and impressions of a particular game to heart. It's as if its their personal creation they made themselves. It could be because pins are pretty expensive, and I get that- just as if someone said they didn't like someones car or motorcycle or whatever.

But honestly I seriously could care less if people don't like the games I own. I just don't get what the fuss is here. Who cares? If someone says they dont like MET, TWD, MM, TZ, GB, or MB I won't get my panties in an uproar. That's fine- we all have different preferences and flavors. We all have our reasons for not wanting or caring for a particular pin.

Iceman, you just need to relax and not care what other people think about the pins you buy. I am sure you have your opinions about the ones I own.. I don't care.

Your analogy about talking shit about homes, clothes, cars, and looks is just totally wrong- if you get your feels hurt from an opinion about a PINBALL MACHINE you need to get a damn life, seriously.

Hahah! Dude. I'm not offended. It's probably the nicest MB anyone has ever seen. It's a masterpiece.

Don't take my word for it - ask RobT! I bought it from him. No doubt even you would appreciate it. Used the money that would have probably gone to Aerosmith.

IMG_3857 (resized).JPG

Sorry brother !!! You are welcome to come play it some time ! I'll have u guys over sometime

It's actually an issue with the optos for the Drac track - had to order a cheap opto board that I'll replace.. no biggie at all.. minor issue and easy fix, considering how mint it is!

Dude he told me a bit about it one day when he was over at my house and I couldn't picture it.. then I saw the video of it and had to talk him into selling it to me. I'll be honest it took a bit of convincing him to let me buy it.. but it's the nicest pin I've seen in person and it's a lot of fun. Whole family enjoys it. Simple Lyman rules that don't need to be deep and complex to be a bunch of fun.

In all honesty, I may have ended up with a BM66 of Stern's quality wasn't so bad and they didn't pull this crap with my GB playfield. I know Lyman is going to take that basic layout and make it a lot of fun over time. I just couldn't give Stern another dollar of my money. But it's a great looking game that's for sure. I just hope Stern gets their shit back together sooner than later.

I told him he could have it for free and he told me he didn't have any room for more junk

Dude I want to start a business like Stern! I am going to build halfway completed shit and sell it to people.. and when I demo it a convention, I'll make sure to rope it off so no one can see how shitty it works - I just want to sell pre-orders to people and tell them it will be finished 'whenever' because my rock star employee might finish it one day

Sounds like a bubble is popping to me

I currently put a value on your BM66 as $0

Why?

Because the motherf*cker was dead on arrival and is still not playable! Straight up lemon from the factory.

Stern saw you defending them every 10mins here on Pinside then Gary literally squatted, and shit out a BM66LE into a box and they put a shipping label on it addressed to Iceman.

But in all honesty I'm kidding and feel bad your BM66 is dead right now. I won't point out the irony or anything like that. I'm not that kind of guy.

But it's ironic as f*ck!!

Seriously man. We're grown men arguing, debating, bitching, etc on a PINBALL forum. Haha. That's why I don't take anyone serious on here. 99.9% of people on here are probably cool as hell. I think it's just a good outlet to frequent a forum about a hobby we all enjoy, and blow off some steam here.. even at others expense. I think we've done a lot of that, and I don't care if we keep going or not because it's fun lol.

But all of us here would probably be buddies in person. That's what I love about this hobby.

So with that said... Stern if you are reading this.. fix Iceman's machine ASAP! This guy has gone to bat so much for you and then you ship him a dud? That's craziness

At these prices - a tested product should be expected.. it should not be an "add on" or have to come out of your pocket.

Sorry, but Stern's profit first/quality last approach is complete bullshit.

I dont doubt it that their testing is 5 games or less... just like the metal rail bending issue on the captive ball area on GB bending after 50 games or so. They had to release a fix later on.. had they tested it properly, then they would have caught that. Stern believes in rushing out as much crap as possible with a popular theme on it, and selling it to people with too much money to burn. Once people realize what a piece of crap that game is, they announce the next big licensed theme.. rinse and repeat.

I was one of those guys I admit.. no more.

Dude just because they are backlogged doesnt mean anything. They could easily be backlogged because of the playfield problem and other supplier issues. If there were only 50 orders for pins that month, and they only had parts to make 10 of them, then a backlog would happen. You are only speculating on the reason they are backlogged. With all the quality issues they are having they should be backlogged, because clearly at their normal production speed they are only shipping well-packed turds in large brown boxes.

If people could easily pack up a pinball and return it like you could at Costco and Target you better believe they would have a line of returns.

If you gauge the success of a company based on the amount of cars in the parking lot, then I dont know what to tell you. What I can tell you is that Sears has a full parking lot.. of employees... and you can look at their financial information that's made publicly available to see a better picture of what is actually going on. GoPro's corporate headquarters are also packed with cars... go look at their recent financial performance.

Trust me, don't get into investing into companies... especially if you base company performance on parking lots and the amount of "people with pitchforks" outside

No one has said Stern is pissing "everyone" off. There's hundreds of pissed off customers though. How many people are actually buying pinball machines? The petition has almost 130 pissed off customer signatures now. That's a lot of people and potential pinball sales.

Speaking of beating a drum over and over- you are guilty of that as well, cheering on Stern repeatedly anytime someone has an opposing view or bad experience. Just because you haven't had a bad experience, doesn't mean other people haven't.

I think your arguments and ways of justifying everything is "fine" at Stern is just straight up weird. Who cares about how many cars are in their parking lot. What does that have to do with shipping defective products then lying about fixing, replacing, and buying them back?

Look at how many quality issues are happening w/ BM66.. playfield issues, poor design, full on machines not working out of the box, defective parts, assembly issues, extreme dimpling, etc. It's crazy that this is happening with products that sell for this much $$ and people like yourself come on here and defend such a company. I guess next time someone has a problem w/ their NIB Stern pinball machine, i'll just quote you and let them know everything is fine because their parking lot is full.. LOL

Just be glad you got lucky w/ your BM66 .. not so many purchasers as of late have shared that luck.

Yeah, their offer to buy back the machine is going just like the promise to replace my playfield 6 months ago. I am told they will do that and i'll hear from them within a day or two. It has been 3 weeks since their offer, and no one calls me or my distributor back. They love over-promising and under-delivering. They are about as reliable and honest as a Trump cabinet member.

Put me on ignore if you have an issue. I see you complaining a lot about my posts, that's why the forum software has such a feature.

I'm sure the moderators are going to love you cracking the whip and telling them what to do, and what actions to take. Don't flatter yourself.

I think over the course of many threads we determined JY64 is a Stern employee or someone affiliated with the company.

That LE has been for sale for 2 weeks and no one seems to want to buy it lol.

BM66 is going to be the fastest depreciating pin in Stern's history. I'm willing to bet the SLE buyers will have a hard time offloading for anything more than $10.5K

Played BM66 Premium at the Pinball Expo in Banning. I had doubts.. I thought it wouldn't play that good.. but I was wrong. It was terrible. Worst modern Stern I have ever played.. Lyman has his hands full with this one, because the game is simply no fun to shoot. The spinning toy was dumb... the phone ringing was annoying.. the LCD graphics and animations seemed rushed and cheap. The ramps were not exciting to hit.

Walked over to Aerosmith Pro and had a blast- MUCH better game, better shots, the LCD had cool animations and really highlighted the move to LCD. Great game. But neither got my money and ordered an AFMr instead.

But seriously.. there's no way BM66 is a long term hit.. it just doesn't shoot well and code updates will have no effect on a game that doesn't have any satisfying shots to hit.

Makes sense, those who are financially invested in the machine love it and claim it's another classic are the ones who praise it.

Those who play it without any bias or financial interest in the machine explain how they really feel. Removing the emotional and financial attachment to the machine is where you read between the lines on this game. It seems everyone who didn't pre order it does not like it, and those who bought it sight unseen think it's the next best thing since sliced bread.

I am truly shocked and surprised!

I am not even a good player and progressed through many villains. It got boring so quick I literally walked away during my Ball 3 on my 3rd or 4th game. I played dozens of games at the expo I have never played and had a blast. BM66 was, in my opinion, the worst modern Stern there- and they had them all. I am sure there are people like you and Iceman that enjoy it, and that's great! Money well spent.

For the rest of us, it is just a mediocre game and our opinions reflect that. There's no comparison between BM66 and Aerosmith.

Just being honest. Keep in mind I played BM66 and Aerosmith back to back for the first time, so that had an effect as well. Unbelievable they got $15K for the SLE version of BM66. Aerosmith Pro is a great looking machine, the custom art- sounds- LCD animations- layout- etc just nailed it for that price point. Playing BM66 back to back is such a contrast, it just seemed so cheap and boring compared to Aerosmith. Why compare them both? They essentially came out at the same time.. one represents Stern very well... the other- not so much. I wish Lonnie did the code on BM66 and Lyman did the code on AS to be honest.

No need to get into hostile arguments defending the fact you like the machine. In fact, I'm stoked there are people who are enjoying them! That's what's great about pinball.. there's always something for everyone. If someone says they like sushi, and I say I don't - no one is going to sit there and tell me why I am wrong and try and change my taste buds. We get it, BM66 is your flavor and you enjoy it. Right on! Flip away and have a good time, that's why these machines exist. Glad BM66 puts a smile on your face. Just because I have no interest in it shouldn't offend anyone.