When a game has almost entirely long shots, it's really hard to judge from a video, especially one that is as poorly shot as the one Stern released. This one will have to be played before any sort of meaningful evaluation can be given. I've seen people play Ghostbusters on video and it's a nightmare watching them brick shots and take avoidable drains. Now, Lyman is a great player, but again, the camera never stops moving around, the lighting is bad, and it cuts away too often to show any real flow. Maybe it's to disguise that not much is happening with code, maybe it's just actually meant to "tease" and not show anything aside from a peek.

Those long shots interest me. I like longer and narrow shots in pinball, but I know they can be frustrating for others.

The LCD looks to be a perfect size, but I REALLY hope that there are going to be some custom animations (beyond text). I am not a fan of the clip show treatment. We're losing an aspect of pinball art that can't be replaced by video loops with the loss of dot art. Custom animations could ease the sting of that loss to some degree.

But overall, you can't tell much from this sort of video. Jack Danger's stream will go a long way towards firming up opinions. He's a solid player, and the camera setup will be ideal. I will most likely get my first hands on with the game in the next month or so.

I think BDK is pretty underrated. Not an all-time great, but underrated for sure.

All I know is that anybody claiming that The Hobbit is the best JJP game has opinions that are beyond suspect...

Nah, I'm good. Clips of The Walking Dead show would harm the art package. The Walking Dead has amazing dots. Nothing we've seen in an LCD comes close. GB will be right there when Color DMD hits.

I'm not a fan of all this clip show nonsense. No charm. No soul.

When games were a bit more reliable out of the box and quality and QA wasn't such a concern, it was really fun to be part of the discovery process of a new game. For LE versions, you had to get in early to get one, usually anyway. But now, it simply doesn't make sense to buy NIB from Stern. I won't do it again. I've bought a few NIB, but GBLE taught me that the risk of frustration is too high.

There's nothing quite like having a NIB game. It's all so clean, perfect, and shiny. Well, it used to be that way...

I have to de-purple a lot of games...

Uh...7 years ago you were only paying $5,000 if you were getting ripped off.

Looks...bricky. I can't tell until I play for myself, but lots of bricks and slow roller action in the middle playfield. Lyman's play looked the same. Probably a game you need plenty of time on to avoid that sort of thing.

Gah, I don't like pinball's move to LCD. Cheap clip shows suck. We're literally losing a major part of a game's art package, and everybody is excited for it. Super lame. I don't much like it on JJP's games, and I really don't like it here. I really hope that some custom animation is in the works, because even in these short videos you see the same clips recycle over and over. Dots >>>>>>>> video. At least we'll never have to see video translated into dots anymore.

The cab looks great. I'm not a fan of the oversaturated colors in the translite, but the art overall is nice (photoshop collage aside). I'm hoping that it becomes a good player. I'm excited to get a chance at it in the coming weeks.

Nobody expected any more or less of you, Jody.

Seriously though, it's not a rehash. Star Trek is far more of a recycled design from Spider-Man than this is of The Dark Knight. There are several games that should be pointed out as rehashed before this one should be. Ever take Sopranos and overlay its playfield on top of Lord of the Rings? Quite a bit of similarity there...but the games could hardly feel any different. Don't sweat the layout stuff too much, people.

Finally watched some of the stream. I was skipping around, and watching bits and pieces, but the game seems kinda janky. Are people at home having any issues?

We're taking about Hondas now? Well, I bought a loaded up 2016 Fit this year in a cash deal for only $2,500 more than the SLE. There, that's my Honda comment.

Jody, chill.

The LE topper is supposed to be different than the SLE topper, right? Has anyone seen the LE topper yet? If it has been shown somehow I missed it.

My Tron, Iron Man, AC/DC, and Spider-Man never dimpled anywhere near as bad as this Batman SLE is showing or nearly as bad as my GBLE has across the first few hundred plays. Yes, some amount of dimpling is normal and can't be avoided. And yes, that level of dimpling will even out. But with some of the "dimples" I have on my GBLE, there's no way it will even out to that depth. The newer Sterns are different in a very big way and the dimpling is far worse.

This is crazy. Apologists need to back off, because they're going to delay this problem from being properly addressed.

Ok, explain why my Iron Man, Tron, Spider-Man, and AC/DC didn't wear like my GBLE has or how GoT has or how Batman is now showing. The games are different in some way today. The dimples are much more noticeable, numerous, and deeper into the wood in the newer games. Call BS all you want, but you're wrong. All evidence (proof, actually) points to newer Stern games having a higher likelihood to dimple and pit.

AC/DC had TONS of airballs when it was new and they come back a bit every time you wax it up. It still doesn't dimple as badly as the newer games.

It's not just the presence of dimples. It's how deep the dimpling is.

Don't let normal dimpling stress you out. Again, that's all normal. It's the deep pits that are troubling. Yeah, the wood will compress and smooth out all over with time, but those deep ball strikes will always be deeper than typical dimpling.

I don't know the specs of Spike 2, but I wonder if compression is necessary to avoid any sort of lag for those clips. I would be shocked if that was an actual issue with solid state media, but I don't know for sure. Maybe down the line those assets can be updated to be higher res. Could storage space be an issue as well?

Ugh. Seeing recent complaints and concerns bubble up makes me sad. My GBLE is a fantastic game, but the headaches and frustration that I've dealt with because of this machine aren't anything that I would wish on anybody. I really hope that issues are few and that those affected owners get taken care of quickly. I'm still waiting for resolution on my playfield, and I had to do a TON of fixes on my own. For the B66 owners, I hope that they're much more aggressive in fixing things.

If the wood is really that soft, it might reduce the severity of the dimples, but they would still probably happen to some degree. Mylar is fantastic at reducing wear from ball skips, small drops, and drag wear, but heavy airballs are a bit out of scope for a thin sheet of mylar.

That's not the first 3rd owner I've seen. I think he's the second 3rd owner on Pinside. Patience is running low these days.

Yeah, another SLE buyer I know just sent an email and was able to buy one. It was REALLY late too. Games were already in peoples' homes when he got in. I don't think these went as quickly as we like to accuse the community of for snapping them up. Of course, maybe someone dropped out late and his timing was just right. I don't really know.

I have a Dialed In on preorder, but I'm almost expecting some sort of issues with it. The Hobbit was nowhere near "the most ambitious pin ever created," and it had all kinds of crazy issues with balls falling off ramps, ramps breaking, pop ups getting stuck, and plenty more. Eventually they got worked out, sure. Side note: WoZ wasn't the most ambitious pin ever created, it was just the most ambitious for a while.

All that said, Batman '66 is supposed to be a premium machine. All the fine details should have been aggressively obsessed over. Testing should have been doubled or tripled up. It's pretty obvious that the game didn't get any extra level of care than any other game. That's a shame.

I really hope that Dialed In and Aerosmith buck the trend for problematic game releases. This is getting ridiculous.

C'mon, dude. It's not the club thread. This is for impressions and opinions on a wider scale. It's not like you aren't running your trap all over the Dialed In threads. I've seen you call people hypocrites. Careful now...

It's better contained here. Opinions evolve over time with more play. It's better to get those feelings lumped together here than in the club threads where people are generally discussing the game deeper than "it sucks" or "it's the best."

I get the fatigue, but as long as people feel that they have something to say or argue about a game, these non-club threads will be filled with back and forth. Often those back and forth discussions get circular. Just nature of online discussion. As long as the club threads remain relatively civil, expect this to be the dumping ground.

There we go. Now you get it.

Got a chance to put some good time in on an LE version of the game. The game was obviously rushed to get out for the 30th anniversary milestone, and it suffers greatly for it. Some of the problems will get cleaned up over time via code updates, but some are permanently baked into the design.

First of all, the LCD integration and presentation is nearly perfect. The size of the screen, and the placement of the screen, is far better than what anybody else has done so far. It's nice having it lower on the backbox, so you can glance up easier. You have to look too high and take in too much screen space on JJP games. Stern absolutely nailed the screen. They just need to clean up the moments when it's displaying the old DMD dots, which will obviously happen with updates.

The art looks fantastic as well. I wish that the artist could have used the machine as his canvas instead of providing a file of clip art, but they did great with what they had to work with. I really hope that they give the artist a shot at doing more art for a future title. While the colors look oversaturated in pics, they look great in person.

I have mixed feelings about the music. There's good variety there, the melodies are solid, but the jazz style is a bit rough. It could grow on you over time or get more annoying, but that's just a personal preference thing. Probably not a deal breaker for most people.

I'm not even going to critique the code, because there was so much missing. Certain things do absolutely nothing, and there's obviously a lot of things that are going to change. The game is surely still in beta, and it has a long, long way to go. Ran into quite a few bugs, but again, that's all WIP at this point.

The real bummer is the actual geometry of the game. That left orbit is awful. It's partially blocked by the blue nub, but even if it wasn't, the angle of entry on it is bad. The ball enters sharply, so you rarely get a smooth transition form the main area to the orbit, and you get rattles. It's just poorly laid out and the orbit entry needs to be lower.

The left ramp is nice when the ball stays put, but it flew off often during play. Moving the nub from the outside of the ramp to the inside seems like a bad idea, as that ramp shouldn't be tightened up any more than it is. I love the shape of the wireform. Very pleasing to watch the ball roll along. I know there are fixes for the ball flying off, but that's insane that it left the factory as it is. That ridiculous nylon tie also got the ball stuck in the left orbit more than once. WTF IS A NYLON TIE DOING THERE?!

ballstucky (resized).jpg

The turntable is a mess. Not a good shot on any side. On the magnet side, you get really goofy action, and there's too much dead space. The sides with the targets have dead space around them too. The spinner side is the worst, as the clean shot just dumps with a thunk into the orbit, and a spinner hit barely spins the Batmobile because of the dead space around it which causes the ball to deflect back into the spinner before it dribbles down the middle of the playfield. Often times it would tell you to shoot the phone and not have the phone facing you. The phone is also ridiculously loud and annoying. The ball often got stuck on the lip of the turntable, and it causes airballs too. Neat idea, but bad implementation.

The right ramp is weak. it's this tiny little climb up, which often gets made by ricochet (a ramp should never be a ricochet shot!). Feels ok to hit though. Feels good to combo from the left ramp and vice versa.

The right spinner is really poorly integrated. That target right behind it often stops the ball and causes it to roll back through the spinner. Other times you get just messy action as it bounces around up there as the ball has to make a sharp direction change right after hitting the spinner. Feels like it was just tacked on for no real good reason.

The half scoop on the right was a little odd. Feels like a full scoop would have been better. We had a screw fall into the spot and had to pull the glass to get it out.

The right orbit is the best shot in the game as far as entry goes, but it's still not as smooth as most orbits should be. I noticed that a lot of orbit shots fed into the slings often rather than coming reliably to the flippers. I hope that was just a problem specific to this machine, because that would be an unforgivable design flaw.

The gadget stand ups should have been drops. It's a shame that they went cheap there. Oh, well.

The game just geometry problems that aren't going to be fixed by code. Yes, the game will get MUCH better as the code evolves, but it's never going to be a smooth or great shooter. Gomez has really struggled to get a smooth game out the door in recent years. Transformers, Avengers, and now this are all rattly and kind of janky in their flow. I don't know what happened after Lord of the Rings, but everything since then feels pretty much half baked. Maybe he's not getting enough time, or maybe his attention is divided, but B66 definitely feels underdeveloped in many ways, mostly on layout. Had to pull the glass off often throughout the night.

glassed (resized).jpg

I fear that this might be a casualty of just hurrying a game to production. It's not Avengers or Transformers bad, but it's not going to settle very high in the rankings of modern Sterns. Do your magic, Lyman, because this game needs it badly.

South Park?

Code can make this game better, and it probably will. I played it again at TPF on a game that had the latest 0.70 code and was able to get to the new multiball. It's a small addition, but there are obviously lots more things to be added with the minor villains.

That said, the layout is just the biggest limiting factor. They can improve code, add in new video clips, and change the callouts and music all they want. In the end, the canvas that they're painting on is rough. If this was the final state of the game, it would be in the running to be one of Stern's worst. I don't think they'll let that happen. They'll polish it as well as they can and it'll most likely end up settling someone in the middle of their efforts. Not every game can be a home run, so it's not like it's a major mark of shame to swing and miss once in a while.

Lord of the Rings. He's had a rough run with Transformers, The Avengers, and Batman '66. Batman: TDK has some fans, but I think it's pretty flawed. It's ok, but I wouldn't say it's a great game. You really do have to go back to LOTR to find something that's universally accepted as a great game.

Dude, chill out. This is a thread for posting impressions on the game. This isn't the club thread. People are here to say what they think about the game based on what they've experienced. If you're sensitive to feedback, hang out in the club thread where it's going to be owners and fans posting about it. All impression threads are going to be a pretty big mix of opinions, ranging from extreme dislike to complete satisfaction. While you don't like reading negative opinions and you're sick of hearing them, people are still going to have them.

Also, running to white knight the game won't change an opinion, it just irritates people who are giving opinions. Let them have their say. This is the place to do that. This is exactly why the thread exists.

It's also problematic that people lean on the "oh, you don't get it" or "you haven't had enough experience" to refute an opinion. How do you know how much time someone has on a game? Heck, I've played newer code than Iceman44 has, but he's talking about people not having enough time on the game to form an opinion. It's all just crazy.

For many of us, the shot geometry on Batman '66 is bad. That's not going to change with more time, because code won't change that. It didn't for Avengers, and it won't for this. Sometimes a layout is a miss, it happens.

Yet you attack people who don't like B66 and accuse them of having not played it or having not played it enough. In my case, you outright called me a liar for stating my opinion on the game because you didn't agree with it. I had hours of experience on the game and saw literally everything the code offered up to that point. But "your own standard" is different. Wow, dude.

I don't ever attack you for your opinion. That's fine. What I don't like is how you intentionally troll pretty much every thread on Pinside with an "I'm smarter than you" attitude.

k.