(Topic ID: 176623)

Batman 66 - What's your impression?

By Barakawins1

7 years ago


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#1951 7 years ago

Question for the more technical guys: when I look at the turntable I see it uses a regular motor with al lot of opto's, levers, a plate with indentions that a lever has to fall into to grab the turntable etc. Wouldn't it have been much easier (and cheaper) to just use a stepper motor and program the steps ?? It would also have been much smoother.

The setup just seems so old fashioned to me. I know they can use steppers, because the dragon in GoT LE uses one. Reliability should be no issue because steppers are always used in 3D printers and they make plenty of hours working.

So the question is: is there a reason why they made this so difficult ? Any reason not to use a stepper ? Genuinely interested in this. The setup works fine, but it seems to me it could have been much easier.

#1952 7 years ago

Colsond3 for president!

#1953 7 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Turntable behaviour is most probably due to the early nature of the code.

I'd still be looking to make sure the wires are not getting caught because of a wire tie sticking out of the wire bundle or something basic like that. Sometimes it's the simple things.

#1954 7 years ago

Do you think its strange that Ghostbusters & Aerosmith are getting all sorts of accessories and even a new youtube video from Stern, while Batman66 has nothing? Seems odd to me. There's no topper for sale, no art blades. Nothing.

#1955 7 years ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

Do you think its strange that Ghostbusters & Aerosmith are getting all sorts of accessories and even a new youtube video from Stern, while Batman66 has nothing? Seems odd to me. There's no topper for sale, no art blades. Nothing.

Very strange and annoying. I'd like to get the art blades and see what topper solution they have for premiums.

#1956 7 years ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

Do you think its strange that Ghostbusters & Aerosmith are getting all sorts of accessories and even a new youtube video from Stern, while Batman66 has nothing? Seems odd to me. There's no topper for sale, no art blades. Nothing.

BM66 was moved up in the release schedule for the anniversary and in turn bumped Aerosmith back a release. So, everything about BM66 was rushed. It's behind on code, accessories, good engineering, etc. Aerosmith is a little more mature than it would have been thanks to being delayed a few months.

#1957 7 years ago
Quoted from chucksmith:

Do you think its strange that Ghostbusters & Aerosmith are getting all sorts of accessories and even a new youtube video from Stern, while Batman66 has nothing? Seems odd to me. There's no topper for sale, no art blades. Nothing.

I'm sure there will be tons of accessories for Batman, probably some really cool ones too. I think Stern need to come out with a new GB Topper though because the one they have now looks like a kids toy that you'd buy at Walmart mart or something.

18
#1958 7 years ago

Got a chance to put some good time in on an LE version of the game. The game was obviously rushed to get out for the 30th anniversary milestone, and it suffers greatly for it. Some of the problems will get cleaned up over time via code updates, but some are permanently baked into the design.

First of all, the LCD integration and presentation is nearly perfect. The size of the screen, and the placement of the screen, is far better than what anybody else has done so far. It's nice having it lower on the backbox, so you can glance up easier. You have to look too high and take in too much screen space on JJP games. Stern absolutely nailed the screen. They just need to clean up the moments when it's displaying the old DMD dots, which will obviously happen with updates.

The art looks fantastic as well. I wish that the artist could have used the machine as his canvas instead of providing a file of clip art, but they did great with what they had to work with. I really hope that they give the artist a shot at doing more art for a future title. While the colors look oversaturated in pics, they look great in person.

I have mixed feelings about the music. There's good variety there, the melodies are solid, but the jazz style is a bit rough. It could grow on you over time or get more annoying, but that's just a personal preference thing. Probably not a deal breaker for most people.

I'm not even going to critique the code, because there was so much missing. Certain things do absolutely nothing, and there's obviously a lot of things that are going to change. The game is surely still in beta, and it has a long, long way to go. Ran into quite a few bugs, but again, that's all WIP at this point.

The real bummer is the actual geometry of the game. That left orbit is awful. It's partially blocked by the blue nub, but even if it wasn't, the angle of entry on it is bad. The ball enters sharply, so you rarely get a smooth transition form the main area to the orbit, and you get rattles. It's just poorly laid out and the orbit entry needs to be lower.

The left ramp is nice when the ball stays put, but it flew off often during play. Moving the nub from the outside of the ramp to the inside seems like a bad idea, as that ramp shouldn't be tightened up any more than it is. I love the shape of the wireform. Very pleasing to watch the ball roll along. I know there are fixes for the ball flying off, but that's insane that it left the factory as it is. That ridiculous nylon tie also got the ball stuck in the left orbit more than once. WTF IS A NYLON TIE DOING THERE?!

ballstucky (resized).jpgballstucky (resized).jpg

The turntable is a mess. Not a good shot on any side. On the magnet side, you get really goofy action, and there's too much dead space. The sides with the targets have dead space around them too. The spinner side is the worst, as the clean shot just dumps with a thunk into the orbit, and a spinner hit barely spins the Batmobile because of the dead space around it which causes the ball to deflect back into the spinner before it dribbles down the middle of the playfield. Often times it would tell you to shoot the phone and not have the phone facing you. The phone is also ridiculously loud and annoying. The ball often got stuck on the lip of the turntable, and it causes airballs too. Neat idea, but bad implementation.

The right ramp is weak. it's this tiny little climb up, which often gets made by ricochet (a ramp should never be a ricochet shot!). Feels ok to hit though. Feels good to combo from the left ramp and vice versa.

The right spinner is really poorly integrated. That target right behind it often stops the ball and causes it to roll back through the spinner. Other times you get just messy action as it bounces around up there as the ball has to make a sharp direction change right after hitting the spinner. Feels like it was just tacked on for no real good reason.

The half scoop on the right was a little odd. Feels like a full scoop would have been better. We had a screw fall into the spot and had to pull the glass to get it out.

The right orbit is the best shot in the game as far as entry goes, but it's still not as smooth as most orbits should be. I noticed that a lot of orbit shots fed into the slings often rather than coming reliably to the flippers. I hope that was just a problem specific to this machine, because that would be an unforgivable design flaw.

The gadget stand ups should have been drops. It's a shame that they went cheap there. Oh, well.

The game just geometry problems that aren't going to be fixed by code. Yes, the game will get MUCH better as the code evolves, but it's never going to be a smooth or great shooter. Gomez has really struggled to get a smooth game out the door in recent years. Transformers, Avengers, and now this are all rattly and kind of janky in their flow. I don't know what happened after Lord of the Rings, but everything since then feels pretty much half baked. Maybe he's not getting enough time, or maybe his attention is divided, but B66 definitely feels underdeveloped in many ways, mostly on layout. Had to pull the glass off often throughout the night.

glassed (resized).jpgglassed (resized).jpg

I fear that this might be a casualty of just hurrying a game to production. It's not Avengers or Transformers bad, but it's not going to settle very high in the rankings of modern Sterns. Do your magic, Lyman, because this game needs it badly.

#1959 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Transformers, Avengers, and now this are all rattly and kind of janky in their flow. I don't know what happened after Lord of the Rings, but everything since then feels pretty much half baked.

Gomez hasn't put out a smooth layout since MB. LOTR is a pretty damn clunky game too. Like Gomez, Steve Ritchie may put out boring fans consistently but at least you can count on his games shooting smooth.

#1960 7 years ago

The first time I played LOTR I thought the path of the dead was, like, broken or missing something, but it's just like that.

#1961 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

The real bummer is the actual geometry of the game. That left orbit is awful. It's partially blocked by the blue nub, but even if it wasn't, the angle of entry on it is bad. The ball enters sharply, so you rarely get a smooth transition form the main area to the orbit, and you get rattles. It's just poorly laid out and the orbit entry needs to be lower.
The left ramp is nice when the ball stays put, but it flew off often during play. Moving the nub from the outside of the ramp to the inside seems like a bad idea, as that ramp shouldn't be tightened up any more than it is. I love the shape of the wireform. Very pleasing to watch the ball roll along. I know there are fixes for the ball flying off, but that's insane that it left the factory as it is. That ridiculous nylon tie also got the ball stuck in the left orbit more than once. WTF IS A NYLON TIE DOING THERE?!

Moving the blue nub to the inside solves the left orbit shot problems completely. It actually makes the left orbit shot easier and more consistent than the right orbit shot. So, non-issue if you make the easy fix.

Quoted from jar155:

The turntable is a mess. Not a good shot on any side. On the magnet side, you get really goofy action, and there's too much dead space. The sides with the targets have dead space around them too. The spinner side is the worst, as the clean shot just dumps with a thunk into the orbit, and a spinner hit barely spins the Batmobile because of the dead space around it which causes the ball to deflect back into the spinner before it dribbles down the middle of the playfield. Often times it would tell you to shoot the phone and not have the phone facing you. The phone is also ridiculously loud and annoying. The ball often got stuck on the lip of the turntable, and it causes airballs too. Neat idea, but bad implementation.

Agreed, and the targets are mounted too close to a metal support on the TV side and will get jammed closed in the inside side (and stop registering) unless the targets are moved away slightly. I've had to do this twice already.

Quoted from jar155:

The right ramp is weak. it's this tiny little climb up, which often gets made by ricochet (a ramp should never be a ricochet shot!). Feels ok to hit though. Feels good to combo from the left ramp and vice versa.
The right spinner is really poorly integrated. That target right behind it often stops the ball and causes it to roll back through the spinner. Other times you get just messy action as it bounces around up there as the ball has to make a sharp direction change right after hitting the spinner. Feels like it was just tacked on for no real good reason.
The half scoop on the right was a little odd. Feels like a full scoop would have been better. We had a screw fall into the spot and had to pull the glass to get it out.
The right orbit is the best shot in the game as far as entry goes, but it's still not as smooth as most orbits should be. I noticed that a lot of orbit shots fed into the slings often rather than coming reliably to the flippers. I hope that was just a problem specific to this machine, because that would be an unforgivable design flaw.

These are pretty small concerns compared to the left orbit and turntable (for me).

Quoted from jar155:

The gadget stand ups should have been drops. It's a shame that they went cheap there. Oh, well.

100% agree.

Quoted from jar155:

The game just geometry problems that aren't going to be fixed by code. Yes, the game will get MUCH better as the code evolves, but it's never going to be a smooth or great shooter. Gomez has really struggled to get a smooth game out the door in recent years. Transformers, Avengers, and now this are all rattly and kind of janky in their flow. I don't know what happened after Lord of the Rings, but everything since then feels pretty much half baked. Maybe he's not getting enough time, or maybe his attention is divided, but B66 definitely feels underdeveloped in many ways, mostly on layout. Had to pull the glass off often throughout the night.

Never had to pull the glass on this one (well not mid-game - I did fix the targets, twice). But TWD shot kind of weird and code eventually changed the focus, which made the game seem to shoot a lot better with the same PF layout and toys. BM'66 could be like that, but Lyman has his work cut out for him, that's for sure!

Quoted from jar155:

I fear that this might be a casualty of just hurrying a game to production. It's not Avengers or Transformers bad, but it's not going to settle very high in the rankings of modern Sterns. Do your magic, Lyman, because this game needs it badly.

They need to give development more time and bring back location testing. JJP is doing it right, and it will give a better overall day 1 customer experience on Dialed In. Stern needs to re-evaluate and adjust. They won't, but they need to.

#1962 7 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They need to give development more time and bring back location testing.

FOMO early adopters are the location beta testers now.

GS would be rubbing his hands together in delight on the dollar they saved by not having to run sets of blank red plastics.

#1963 7 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

FOMO early adopters are the location beta testers now.

Yes, that's clear, but it's far inferior to a real location test of a handful of machines because if there's a real problem (say GoT left orbit) it's too expensive (not really, but they think so) to replace it for all the "beta testers" they sold it to already, whereas if they found it in a location test it could be adjusted and the part fixed before the first one ships to a customer.

#1964 7 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yes, that's clear, but it's far inferior to a real location test of a handful of machines because if there's a real problem (say GoT left orbit) it's too expensive (not really, but they think so) to replace it for all the "beta testers" they sold it to already, whereas if they found it in a location test it could be adjusted and the part fixed before the first one ships to a customer.

Agree and I was being slightly flippant with my observation hence the red plastics comment.

It is quite remarkable though how apparently easily they have transitioned virtually the entire quality control aspect of their product onto the end consumer rather than going through the rigours of field testing and consumer feedback prior to release to distributors.

With the added bonus for Stern that even if a fault is discovered down the line, then as you alluded to the money is already in the bank so the incentive to actually follow through with any type of meaningful fix is instead more likely going to be nominal and sporadic (code updates) or piecemeal (defective playfield replacements).

#1965 7 years ago

the early adaptors find all the issues and come up with the fixes for the rest of the buyers. not like stern goes out of their way to fix future production runs or make repair kits to send out. its like they got the factory in full production to get the machines out before the canceled orders start to come in.
its really sad to see all the buyers on a thread discussing all the fixes that need to be done on a nib machine. status quo really sucks and you see gary on interviews act like he is the godfather of pinball. really cocky attitude with the new junk they are producing. he says it magic. yeah he makes peoples money dissappear.

#1966 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

EVERY release by every pin maker is gonna have some issues.

But those really should be very minor, it just seems the games are rushed to production with a "we'll sort it out later" attitude.
I really was going to plop down $$ on an LE just on theme alone, sort of glad I did not. I wonder how many hours completed prototypes are play tested. I like how JJ has a dialed in on location getting 1,000's of plays to see what goes wrong. That's really how it should be done.

I still want a a BM66 but then I come and read all the issues and complaints, I change my mind. I don't like the Dialed In theme at all, but to tell you the truth, it's starting to win me over when you see the attention they pay to quality and fixing issues using prototypes. I would honestly pay more for a quality play tested Stern.

12
#1967 7 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I would honestly pay more for a quality play tested Stern.

At these prices - a tested product should be expected.. it should not be an "add on" or have to come out of your pocket.

Sorry, but Stern's profit first/quality last approach is complete bullshit.

#1968 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

At these prices - a tested product should be expected.. it should not be an "add on" or have to come out of your pocket.
Sorry, but Stern's profit first/quality last approach is complete bullshit.

I didn't really mean to comment on the prices of the games - maximizing profit means getting games in the hands of customers as quick as possible.

I just wish prototype games were location tested for 6 mos., brought back to stern, improved and then put into production.
I still want a BM66 based on theme alone..... It's really a shame they rushed it.

Maybe competition will force them to change - or maybe not....

#1969 7 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I didn't really mean to comment on the prices of the games - maximizing profit means getting games in the hands of customers as quick as possible.
I just wish prototype games were location tested for 6 mos., brought back to stern, improved and then put into production.
I still want a BM66 based on theme alone..... It's really a shame they rushed it.
Maybe competition will force them to change - or maybe not....

That's funny... 6 months. Based on the fact that most NIB buyers can identify the multiple problems within their first 5 games, tells me that Stern currently field tests their products for... well, less than 5 games.

#1970 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

That's funny... 6 months. Based on the fact that most NIB buyers can identify the multiple problems within their first 5 games, tells me that Stern currently field tests their products for... well, less than 5 games.

I dont doubt it that their testing is 5 games or less... just like the metal rail bending issue on the captive ball area on GB bending after 50 games or so. They had to release a fix later on.. had they tested it properly, then they would have caught that. Stern believes in rushing out as much crap as possible with a popular theme on it, and selling it to people with too much money to burn. Once people realize what a piece of crap that game is, they announce the next big licensed theme.. rinse and repeat.

I was one of those guys I admit.. no more.

#1971 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

I dont doubt it that their testing is 5 games or less... just like the metal rail bending issue on the captive ball area on GB bending after 50 games or so. They had to release a fix later on.. had they tested it properly, then they would have caught that. Stern believes in rushing out as much crap as possible with a popular theme on it, and selling it to people with too much money to burn. Once people realize what a piece of crap that game is, they announce the next big licensed theme.. rinse and repeat.
I was one of those guys I admit.. no more.

And yet I drive by there almost every day and there are no folks outside with pitchforks, or lined up trying to return machines. They have a 2 month backlog, and games keep flowing out the door. These can't all be going to new buyers, so either the problems are not as bad as we all would like to believe, OR, deep down, folks know Stern will stand behind the product and they take the chance, deal with the issues and move on with life. I am not defending or condemning anyone here, I am merely saying if things were as bad as what is posted here on Pinside, they would never sell to a repeat customer. And yes, I know they are the only major player in the market, but we are also talking about very expensive toys that we can all live without. And then again, maybe I just don't understand the business model, but they still have folks lining up to buy the next pin (even at 10K or 15K) , so they have to be doing something right.

#1972 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

And yet I drive by there almost every day and there are no folks outside with pitchforks, or lined up trying to return machines. They have a 2 month backlog, and games keep flowing out the door. These can't all be going to new buyers, so either the problems are not as bad as we all would like to believe, OR, deep down, folks know Stern will stand behind the product and they take the chance, deal with the issues and move on with life. I am not defending or condemning anyone here, I am merely saying if things were as bad as what is posted here on Pinside, they would never sell to a repeat customer. And yes, I know they are the only major player in the market, but we are also talking about very expensive toys that we can all live without. And then again, maybe I just don't understand the business model, but they still have folks lining up to buy the next pin (even at 10K or 15K) , so they have to be doing something right.

Dude just because they are backlogged doesnt mean anything. They could easily be backlogged because of the playfield problem and other supplier issues. If there were only 50 orders for pins that month, and they only had parts to make 10 of them, then a backlog would happen. You are only speculating on the reason they are backlogged. With all the quality issues they are having they should be backlogged, because clearly at their normal production speed they are only shipping well-packed turds in large brown boxes.

If people could easily pack up a pinball and return it like you could at Costco and Target you better believe they would have a line of returns.

#1973 7 years ago

For sure, Stern is biting (nibbling) the hand that feeds them. They are making money (for now) but the combination of price increases and lack of QA will eventually take its toll. After all Williams and Gottlieb were once very successful pinball manufacturers as well. Nortel, Blackberry ... also successful (non pinball) companies ... the list goes on. Consumers, while a fickle bunch eventually figure it out and move on. The time for Stern to address and fix these things is before they have a problem which affects their sales (profits) - once (if) the downward slide starts it is often much harder to reverse (and they will have less money to fix it).

The issues they have been having is definitely costing them sales. I now at least half a dozen collectors that are holding off on buying Stern NIB right now (myself included) - and not because I dont like the themes or artwork. It just doesnt seem like the value is there anymore.

#1974 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Dude just because they are backlogged doesnt mean anything. They could easily be backlogged because of the playfield problem and other supplier issues. If there were only 50 orders for pins that month, and they only had parts to make 10 of them, then a backlog would happen. You are only speculating on the reason they are backlogged. With all the quality issues they are having they should be backlogged, because clearly at their normal production speed they are only shipping well-packed turds in large brown boxes.
If people could easily pack up a pinball and return it like you could at Costco and Target you better believe they would have a line of returns.

Maybe so, but if that were the case, I doubt I would see a parking lot full of cars like I do. Maybe those are the folks returning pins? lol I did hear them say on the CBS story that half of the production goes overseas. If you think it is tough for us to return something, just think about them...........

#1975 7 years ago

My local place got one on Friday. I got to play a handful of games on Saturday at the AZ SCS. I think it is fun to shoot and look forward to how it evolves. Beautiful art and the surface of the playfield looks amazing, as long as you don't look by the turnstyle. In the few games I played, the phone wasn't annoying because it's an easy shot. However, in front of that area it was crater city less than 24 hours after unboxing. I had so many shots to that area bounce up and hitting the wireform and come back down onto the playfield.

I played one match against a friend and he finished ball 3 with 81m and then got 89m in bonus. Say what?

That being said, I'm glad I'm not the owner. I will happily play this game at D&D and look forward to future code updates. But I won't have to worry about bad clearcoat, or broken welds, or carroted code (just 2 weeks away...), or anything else. Instead, I'll just get to play it and enjoy what is there.

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#1976 7 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I played one match against a friend and he finished ball 3 with 81m and then got 89m in bonus. Say what?

The rollovers are ripe for abuse because each time they're complete, you get a +1 multiplier, and Mystery (complete inland/outlane batsignals, then hit left orbit) hands out +5 multipliers, too. The multiplier isn't capped, either (at least as far as I can tell), so you can get a 50-60-70x multiplier or more if you keep the balls up at the top in a multiball so the rollovers are active. I've had bonuses in the 300m range as a result.

-3
#1977 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Maybe so, but if that were the case, I doubt I would see a parking lot full of cars like I do. Maybe those are the folks returning pins? lol I did hear them say on the CBS story that half of the production goes overseas. If you think it is tough for us to return something, just think about them...........

If you gauge the success of a company based on the amount of cars in the parking lot, then I dont know what to tell you. What I can tell you is that Sears has a full parking lot.. of employees... and you can look at their financial information that's made publicly available to see a better picture of what is actually going on. GoPro's corporate headquarters are also packed with cars... go look at their recent financial performance.

Trust me, don't get into investing into companies... especially if you base company performance on parking lots and the amount of "people with pitchforks" outside

#1978 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

If you gauge the success of a company based on the amount of cars in the parking lot, then I dont know what to tell you. What I can tell you is that Sears has a full parking lot.. of employees... and you can look at their financial information that's made publicly available to see a better picture of what is actually going on. GoPro's corporate headquarters are also packed with cars... go look at their recent financial performance.
Trust me, don't get into investing into companies... especially if you base company performance on parking lots and the amount of "people with pitchforks" outside

Oh for gods sake you know what I mean and you are just looking for an argument so you can keep beating the same drum over and over. I wasn't considering investing based on cars, I was simply making an observation that there are a lot of employees obviously showing up for work, which would not be happening if they weren't producing games.......or I guess there is always the possibility Gary is running a used car lot on the side. I can tell you I drive past some of the Sears offices every week, and I see a lot more empty than full parking spaces, so there is that observation as well. I don't know if the backlog is due to incoming orders or if they are waiting on supplies, and neither do you, but you cannot just let anyone express their own thoughts about Stern without trying to stomp them into the dirt. Maybe the videos of the production lines are staged just for your benefit too, so Gary can claim he is too busy to get to your playfield? You just can't stand it that maybe the sky isn't falling, and maybe Stern is taking care of their customers....and maybe, just maybe, you pissed off the guy that was going to fix yours. As I said before, I am not defending anyone......I am just saying they can't be pissing EVEERYONE off, or they would be out of business fast. In the one case I had of a defective product, they made it right and went above and beyond to not only give me a new playfield, but all new parts as well. Yes, it should never have happened, and yes, it took a few months, but who the heck cares....not me. I got a new game after 6 months of play. And for a guy so "done" with Stern, you sure spend a lot of time trolling their threads.

#1979 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Got a chance to put some good time in on an LE version of the game. The game was obviously rushed to get out for the 30th anniversary milestone, and it suffers greatly for it. Some of the problems will get cleaned up over time via code updates, but some are permanently baked into the design.
First of all, the LCD integration and presentation is nearly perfect. The size of the screen, and the placement of the screen, is far better than what anybody else has done so far. It's nice having it lower on the backbox, so you can glance up easier. You have to look too high and take in too much screen space on JJP games. Stern absolutely nailed the screen. They just need to clean up the moments when it's displaying the old DMD dots, which will obviously happen with updates.
The art looks fantastic as well. I wish that the artist could have used the machine as his canvas instead of providing a file of clip art, but they did great with what they had to work with. I really hope that they give the artist a shot at doing more art for a future title. While the colors look oversaturated in pics, they look great in person.
I have mixed feelings about the music. There's good variety there, the melodies are solid, but the jazz style is a bit rough. It could grow on you over time or get more annoying, but that's just a personal preference thing. Probably not a deal breaker for most people.
I'm not even going to critique the code, because there was so much missing. Certain things do absolutely nothing, and there's obviously a lot of things that are going to change. The game is surely still in beta, and it has a long, long way to go. Ran into quite a few bugs, but again, that's all WIP at this point.
The real bummer is the actual geometry of the game. That left orbit is awful. It's partially blocked by the blue nub, but even if it wasn't, the angle of entry on it is bad. The ball enters sharply, so you rarely get a smooth transition form the main area to the orbit, and you get rattles. It's just poorly laid out and the orbit entry needs to be lower.
The left ramp is nice when the ball stays put, but it flew off often during play. Moving the nub from the outside of the ramp to the inside seems like a bad idea, as that ramp shouldn't be tightened up any more than it is. I love the shape of the wireform. Very pleasing to watch the ball roll along. I know there are fixes for the ball flying off, but that's insane that it left the factory as it is. That ridiculous nylon tie also got the ball stuck in the left orbit more than once. WTF IS A NYLON TIE DOING THERE?!

The turntable is a mess. Not a good shot on any side. On the magnet side, you get really goofy action, and there's too much dead space. The sides with the targets have dead space around them too. The spinner side is the worst, as the clean shot just dumps with a thunk into the orbit, and a spinner hit barely spins the Batmobile because of the dead space around it which causes the ball to deflect back into the spinner before it dribbles down the middle of the playfield. Often times it would tell you to shoot the phone and not have the phone facing you. The phone is also ridiculously loud and annoying. The ball often got stuck on the lip of the turntable, and it causes airballs too. Neat idea, but bad implementation.
The right ramp is weak. it's this tiny little climb up, which often gets made by ricochet (a ramp should never be a ricochet shot!). Feels ok to hit though. Feels good to combo from the left ramp and vice versa.
The right spinner is really poorly integrated. That target right behind it often stops the ball and causes it to roll back through the spinner. Other times you get just messy action as it bounces around up there as the ball has to make a sharp direction change right after hitting the spinner. Feels like it was just tacked on for no real good reason.
The half scoop on the right was a little odd. Feels like a full scoop would have been better. We had a screw fall into the spot and had to pull the glass to get it out.
The right orbit is the best shot in the game as far as entry goes, but it's still not as smooth as most orbits should be. I noticed that a lot of orbit shots fed into the slings often rather than coming reliably to the flippers. I hope that was just a problem specific to this machine, because that would be an unforgivable design flaw.
The gadget stand ups should have been drops. It's a shame that they went cheap there. Oh, well.
The game just geometry problems that aren't going to be fixed by code. Yes, the game will get MUCH better as the code evolves, but it's never going to be a smooth or great shooter. Gomez has really struggled to get a smooth game out the door in recent years. Transformers, Avengers, and now this are all rattly and kind of janky in their flow. I don't know what happened after Lord of the Rings, but everything since then feels pretty much half baked. Maybe he's not getting enough time, or maybe his attention is divided, but B66 definitely feels underdeveloped in many ways, mostly on layout. Had to pull the glass off often throughout the night.

I fear that this might be a casualty of just hurrying a game to production. It's not Avengers or Transformers bad, but it's not going to settle very high in the rankings of modern Sterns. Do your magic, Lyman, because this game needs it badly.

Oddly, alot of what you address (beyond qc and obvious rush in release) are what intrigue me when I play this game.

a) People who call this "just another fan layout" are dead wrong.

b) The tight left ramp is easily addressed by moving the blue nub (that ramp entrance has a huge opening, btw). A non issue for me, as I can hit it pretty smooth now.

c) the left ramp "flappy plastic" should have been handled with a better habitrail to contain the ball...definitely QC, and suspect I will eventually get one made for mine. A nice, flowy shot however.

d) The right ramp shortness, with spinner behind the u turn is quite interesting....allows for several ways to get around that area, I find it alot of fun.

e) The airballs causing early dimples (mine have not been crazy with over 200 plays now) are also caused by the crane bash toy, which I love.

f) Turntable - once the pitch was set to just over 7 degrees, I've had almost zero hung balls there, with a slight nudge freeing them.

g) Left and right side of rotisserie are definitely tight, but then again, somewhat mysterious in behavior. No stuck balls there after pitch adjustment.

h) Music and callouts are fine now, and code WILL help in this area, as well as ball lock, and other aspects.

The game is stunning, in it's campy way...freakin love looking at the thing.

I guess my point - I like it BECAUSE of it's different, sometimes clunky type of play, as it's so different than my other machines. It's going to really be a nostalgia hit with finished code, and always be a viable choice for a few games in the rotation.

Hell, I spend time on it now just to hear the clips I've missed...and i'll point out (for a final time)..once the TV becomes truly interactive, the rotisserie is going to be quite relevant and enjoyable.

Would have preferred having it "done" before I received it, but glad I've got it.......

#1980 7 years ago

He's done buying NIB Stern products. Doesn't mean he's done sharing his unsatisfactory experiences with Stern so others may learn from them.

#1981 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Oh for gods sake you know what I mean and you are just looking for an argument so you can keep beating the same drum over and over. I wasn't considering investing based on cars, I was simply making an observation that there are a lot of employees obviously showing up for work.......or maybe Gary is running a used car lot on the side. I can tell you I drive past some of the Sears offices every week, and I see a lot more empty than full parking spaces, so there is that observation as well. I don't know if the backlog is orders or waiting on supplies, and neither do you, but you cannot just let anyone express their own thoughts about Stern without stomping them into the dirt. Maybe the videos of the production lines are staged just for your benefit too, so Gary can claim he is too busy to get to your playfield. You just can't stand it that maybe the sky isn't falling, and maybe Stern is taking care of their customers....and maybe, just maybe, you pissed off the guy that was going to fix yours. As I said before, I am not defending anyone......I am just saying they can't be pissing EVEERYONE off, or they would be out of business fast. In the one case I had of a defective product, they made it right and went above and beyond to not only give me a new playfield, but all new parts as well. Yes, it should never have happened, and yes, it took a few months, but who the heck cares....not me. I got a new game after 6 months of play. And for a guy so "done" with Stern, you sure spend a lot of time trolling their threads.

No the sky isn't falling, but there are apparent issues that need to be addressed. Regardless if Gary is pissed or not he needs to make it right otherwise he is only doing himself and his business harm. There is no time for personal feelings when someone buys something for good money and it is defective. Make it right and move on. Adjust business procedures and move forward. Sure KPG is pissed but I would be too if it were my 8K.

#1982 7 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

He's done buying NIB Stern products. Doesn't mean he's done sharing his unsatisfactory experiences with Stern so others may learn from them.

I have absolutely no issue with that...just state your opinion and move on. What I am disagreeing with is the constant attack on anyone who disagrees or says anything he feels is not enough fire and brimstone.

10
#1983 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

I have absolutely no issue with that...just state your opinion and move on. What I am disagreeing with is the constant attack on anyone who disagrees or says anything he feels is not enough fire and brimstone.

He will move on when his game is fixed.

Fix the game Gary, so he can move on.

Until then I can understand him not moving on.

IMHO if they have time to make new games then they have time to fix KGPs PF. Just like if they have time to post on facebook and pat themselves on the back then they have time to communicate better.

#1984 7 years ago
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:

No the sky isn't falling, but there are apparent issues that need to be addressed. Regardless if Gary is pissed or not he needs to make it right otherwise he is only doing himself and his business harm. There is no time for personal feelings when someone buys something for good money and it is defective. Make it right and move on. Adjust business procedures and move forward. Sure KPG is pissed but I would be too if it were my 8K.

Agreed. I'm sure they will make it right in time, they pretty much have to.

#1985 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Agreed, and I have no issue with anything you just posted.

I didn't think you would.

#1986 7 years ago

From what it sounds like, Stern should just give him a new game as the whole thing is a cluster fuck POS.

10
#1987 7 years ago

Can we keep the kpg discussion out of the Batman thread?

#1988 7 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

From what it sounds like, Stern should just give him a new game as the whole thing is a cluster fuck POS.

From what he was told, there was a buy-back in the works. As KPG said a few pages back, I am pretty sure this has more to do with his distributor than Stern. I can tell you my Distro went above and beyond to make sure we were taken care of, and other than the time it took, I have no complaints. Maybe the distributor lied about the buy-back, or maybe someone got pissed and pushed his to the back of the line....none of us will probably ever know. Gary is on record saying they will fix these, so it pretty much has to happen.. "when" is the question.

#1989 7 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Can we keep the kpg discussion out of the Batman thread?

I am going to petition Stern to see if they will add KPG as one of the "minor villains" and code him deep into the game, so if you beat him, you get a new game.......lol (Lightening things up)

#1990 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Oh for gods sake you know what I mean and you are just looking for an argument so you can keep beating the same drum over and over. I wasn't considering investing based on cars, I was simply making an observation that there are a lot of employees obviously showing up for work, which would not be happening if they weren't producing games.......or I guess there is always the possibility Gary is running a used car lot on the side. I can tell you I drive past some of the Sears offices every week, and I see a lot more empty than full parking spaces, so there is that observation as well. I don't know if the backlog is due to incoming orders or if they are waiting on supplies, and neither do you, but you cannot just let anyone express their own thoughts about Stern without trying to stomp them into the dirt. Maybe the videos of the production lines are staged just for your benefit too, so Gary can claim he is too busy to get to your playfield? You just can't stand it that maybe the sky isn't falling, and maybe Stern is taking care of their customers....and maybe, just maybe, you pissed off the guy that was going to fix yours. As I said before, I am not defending anyone......I am just saying they can't be pissing EVEERYONE off, or they would be out of business fast. In the one case I had of a defective product, they made it right and went above and beyond to not only give me a new playfield, but all new parts as well. Yes, it should never have happened, and yes, it took a few months, but who the heck cares....not me. I got a new game after 6 months of play. And for a guy so "done" with Stern, you sure spend a lot of time trolling their threads.

No one has said Stern is pissing "everyone" off. There's hundreds of pissed off customers though. How many people are actually buying pinball machines? The petition has almost 130 pissed off customer signatures now. That's a lot of people and potential pinball sales.

Speaking of beating a drum over and over- you are guilty of that as well, cheering on Stern repeatedly anytime someone has an opposing view or bad experience. Just because you haven't had a bad experience, doesn't mean other people haven't.

I think your arguments and ways of justifying everything is "fine" at Stern is just straight up weird. Who cares about how many cars are in their parking lot. What does that have to do with shipping defective products then lying about fixing, replacing, and buying them back?

Look at how many quality issues are happening w/ BM66.. playfield issues, poor design, full on machines not working out of the box, defective parts, assembly issues, extreme dimpling, etc. It's crazy that this is happening with products that sell for this much $$ and people like yourself come on here and defend such a company. I guess next time someone has a problem w/ their NIB Stern pinball machine, i'll just quote you and let them know everything is fine because their parking lot is full.. LOL

#1991 7 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Can we keep the kpg discussion out of the Batman thread?

Sorry...that was too easy and had to be acted upon. At least it's getting us back to Batman, right?

meme 3 (resized).jpgmeme 3 (resized).jpg

#1992 7 years ago

And thanks to Jar155 and Vireland for posting in depth above and taking the time to do it. Very apt descriptions.

#1993 7 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

He's done buying NIB Stern products. Doesn't mean he's done sharing his unsatisfactory experiences with Stern so others may learn from them.

He can share his experiences all he wants, as all of us can (negative, positive,etc.). "Learn from them"? A subjective statement. I've "learned" that initial impressions, opinions formulated by others, and overly negative or fanboy reactions don't mean shit when I decide to purchase a game.

#1994 7 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

He can share his experiences all he wants, as all of us can (negative, positive,etc.). "Learn from them"? A subjective statement. I've "learned" that initial impressions, opinions formulated by others, and overly negative or fanboy reactions don't mean shit when I decide to purchase a game.

Just be glad you got lucky w/ your BM66 .. not so many purchasers as of late have shared that luck.

#1995 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

No one has said Stern is pissing "everyone" off. There's hundreds of pissed off customers though. How many people are actually buying pinball machines? The petition has almost 130 pissed off customer signatures now. That's a lot of people and potential pinball sales.
Speaking of beating a drum over and over- you are guilty of that as well, cheering on Stern repeatedly anytime someone has an opposing view or bad experience. Just because you haven't had a bad experience, doesn't mean other people haven't.
I think your arguments and ways of justifying everything is "fine" at Stern is just straight up weird. Who cares about how many cars are in their parking lot. What does that have to do with shipping defective products then lying about fixing, replacing, and buying them back?
Look at how many quality issues are happening w/ BM66.. playfield issues, poor design, full on machines not working out of the box, defective parts, assembly issues, extreme dimpling, etc. It's crazy that this is happening with products that sell for this much $$ and people like yourself come on here and defend such a company. I guess next time someone has a problem w/ their NIB Stern pinball machine, i'll just quote you and let them know everything is fine because their parking lot is full.. LOL

I never said cars in a parking lot equated to everything being A-OK at Stern. I said that as a response to your comment about the game backlog possibly being a result of waiting on suppliers. It stands to reason they would not pay people to show up to work if they had nothing to do. Not too many companies I know can do that for very long. That is all I said, and all I meant...nothing more, nothing less. I don't work at Stern, I don't go there, so I knowing nothing about what happens inside. For all I know, the place could be a burned out shell.

I wasn't arguing any of your points and I never told you how wrong you are. In fact, I have agreed with you on a lot of the base reasons why you are angry. I just don't agree on the method for resolution, but that is your path to take, not mine. You let everyone know your bad experience, and I let everyone know my good experience, and there is no need to go over either any more.

To avoid the complaints, how about I actually address the thread we are in...

Other than a couple of bolts coming lose in transit, and putting a rubber spacer under the wire form on my BM66, I have had zero issues with it and am very happy with the hardware. I love the artwork, and this pin sits next to my WOZ so I get to see both displays side by side. I must say, I have grown to like the smaller display better. I try to concentrate on the shots anyway, and although the JJP has beautiful video, there is often more going on there than I can concentrate on. The smaller display with the video clips is just about right for a quick glance. The left orbit of my BM66 was a 'rattler" early on. I don't know if I am getting better at the shot, or just wearing it in, but the rattling happens very seldom anymore. I don't have any issues with balls sticking behind the turn table, game is at 7 degrees. The code is the obvious letdown at this point, but I see hints of some real fun in the future. I just hope sufficient time is allowed for the code to mature give all of the potential. Things I don't like......the red in the topper is not red. Easy to fix and I am being picky, but for a retired cop, I want real red for my lights. I also think the left orbit is actually too easy, as well as the saucer hole next to the crane. I hit that left orbit over and over, and just about every ball drops into that saucer hole. I can see it becoming a point of wear. I don't mind the phone or the TV, but I do think the batmobile spinner looks cheap, and I bet those posts are the first part to snap. Good thing it looks easy and cheap to replace. The ramps are OK, I really have no issue with them and since adding the rubber pad, I haven't had one fly-off. I never played a BDK, so I didn't now if I would like the crane, but it is probably my favorite feature....I just wish it were implemented more. Hopefully the code will bring it into other modes. Overall, I am happy with the game, but I will admit, it did not have enough additional features to justify the additional cost, so my bet is the price on these will drop some on the used market. I knew that would be the case going into the purchase, and I am OK with it. I will get my fun out of the game anyway.

#1996 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Just be glad you got lucky w/ your BM66 .. not so many purchasers as of late have shared that luck.

And I truly feel bad for the ones that have had the issues (honestly)....QC was spotty at best.....I really don't have a metric to use on "good" vs "bad" games regarding QC.....really was focusing on gameplay experience. I hope you get your replacement machine (as I think you had stated they agreed on awhile back) and are able to potentially enjoy this machine.....mark

#1997 7 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

And I truly feel bad for the ones that have had the issues (honestly)....QC was spotty at best.....I really don't have a metric to use on "good" vs "bad" games regarding QC.....really was focusing on gameplay experience. I hope you get your replacement machine (as I think you had stated they agreed on awhile back) and are able to potentially enjoy this machine.....mark

Yeah, their offer to buy back the machine is going just like the promise to replace my playfield 6 months ago. I am told they will do that and i'll hear from them within a day or two. It has been 3 weeks since their offer, and no one calls me or my distributor back. They love over-promising and under-delivering. They are about as reliable and honest as a Trump cabinet member.

#1998 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Yeah, their offer to buy back the machine is going just like the promise to replace my playfield 6 months ago. I am told they will do that and i'll hear from them within a day or two.

Oh man....I thought that was a done deal!

#1999 7 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Just be glad you got lucky w/ your BM66 .. not so many purchasers as of late have shared that luck.

Enough. There are already a number of threads where your (valid) issues are discussed. If you have any defect issues regarding a Batman 66 games, by all means post here. Otherwise, post elsewhere please.

#2000 7 years ago

16640973_1416230928421069_1687567145431309688_n (resized).jpg16640973_1416230928421069_1687567145431309688_n (resized).jpg

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