KS
Mine arrives tonight....well, it doesn't actually arrive. I have to go pick it up. They called to set up delivery for Monday, and there is NO WAY I am going to leave it on a dock for the weekend so close to my house.
(Topic ID: 167576)
Linked Games
Batman 66 (LE)
Stern, 2016-
Batman 66 (Premium)
Stern, 2016
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Batman 66 (Super LE)
Stern, 2016
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Quoted from docquest:Been playing mine a lot today and so far just one issue and its driving me nuts. Ball couldnt get out of the crane scoop. After closer inspection I saw a screw in the bottom if the scoop. Ive combed over the entire playfield but cant figure out where the heck that screw came from.
Hahahah...had the EXACT same issue, and I have no idea either. Please let me know if you figure it out......lol
Quoted from Manimal:Hahahah...had the EXACT same issue, and I have no idea either. Please let me know if you figure it out......lol
Figured it out. 1st bolt was off the bottom of the standoff post holding up the Cat statue. How did I find it you ask? Playing game #2 and another bolt comes whizzing down the playfield! I looked up and the cat had fallen and he couldn't get up.......looks like whomever was to tighten those bolts was outside smoking some Bat Blunts.......
Quoted from iceman44:Maybe the loose stuff is you guys not getting it put back together right?
Re rubbering is a tough job!
I guess i'll do that first thing on mine when i get it. Make sure everything is tightened up and in place while changing out rubber.
Never changed anything on mine, so no, they were lose from the factory. 1st screw was found on game #1
Quoted from Cserold:Effing embarrassing. Bought BM66 and feeling better every day about decision to invest in dialed In. Flame away.
No flames...I own JJP too, but I had issues with a couple of mounts on it when it first came out of the box. If this is all that happens, then it is all good and an easy fix. It's actually pretty common to have to tighten up or adjust things on this games after they rattle around in a truck for several hours.
I just got my game Friday night, but I will say, I am very impressed with the actual play. Love the crane toy, and there are a few repetitive shots, but overall very fun, and not so hard that you can't get some decent scores right out of the box. The code around the graphics, modes, etc will get better, but I am more happy with BM66 now than I am with my GBLE at several months old. (And I do like the GB game). I wasn't going to keep it because of the price, and I am still not happy I caved and paid the 9.4K.....but taking the money away, it is a very good game that will get a ton of play. Probably my only concern for the hardware is the Batmobile spinner.....that thing gets smashed time and time again and I guess time will tell how it holds up. It will probably be just fine, but I am betting there are replacements for the plastic covers out there in the near future.
1 week later
Quoted from MT45:Thought I'd share a mod I just completed with my BM66SLE
I was dissapointed with the color saturation of the red light topper. It just appeared too pink to me, not deep red enough like a real police or emergency type light.
To fix it, I bought some photo filters on Amazon - you'll get more colors than you want but the cost is cheap ($11.99) - you just need the red color
amazon.com link »
Reminder as you can see in the pics, the gel filters come with both side protected by plastic that must be peeled off.
You can use my templates to save a bunch of time if you decide to do this - most of the time was making the template for each section.
You'll be adding red filter material to: Sides of dome, top of dome and each side flasher
- When you add the filter to the sides of the dome, put the seam to the back and add a piece of tape to hold in place
- The "back" of the dome is easy to find as there are 2 screw holes closest together (opposite the single screw in the front)
- The side flashers are put in by folding down the tab and tucking the "wings" into the inside of the rest of the filter material
- Then just force it in ... it's VERY tight and tough to push down as the filter material is stiff - stick with it, you can't really hurt it
- The dome piece (the circle) is the easiest, just cut it, peel the protective material off and drop it in UNDER the 2 screws - they will hold it in place, no tape needed
I am VERY pleased by how deep red the color is now - very happy with the results
2 videos show before (front and top views)
2 videos show after (front and top view)
It's even more impressive in person!
Before front view
» YouTube video
After front view
» YouTube video
Before top view
» YouTube video
After top view
» YouTube video
Awesome! I was just at the hobby shop this weekend looking for the red filter material. You did EXACTLY what I was looking to do and for the same reason. As a retired cop, I want RED, not half-assed Red/Orange! lol Thanks for the link
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I was looking for a local store.
I ended up putting my order through them anyway.
I need to take some pics of what I did that worked very well. I haven't had a single fly-off since I adjusted things. I added the rubber spacer under the right ramp mount like some have shown here, but I was still getting fly-offs. I set up a go-Pro and took some film of the ball travelling on the wire form. Of course, the ball would not cooperate and fly-off when I was filming, but I did notice the wireform was bouncing just a bit as the ball went over it. If you look, there is really very little support to the left side of the wireform where it hits the ramp, and very little support for the ramp itself as well. I was working off the assumption that maybe this bounce, coupled with the inertia of the ball, was causing it to go up and over the rail.
The fix: I had several of the blue rubber squares you can buy from Marco that are self-sticking and go at the end of a ramp before the ball drop....just a one-inch rubber square made of pretty hard rubber. I used the adhesive back and stuck it to the top of the ball gate mount in the top lane (fits very nice) and it is just thick enough to push the wire form up just a bit, and give it some good support. With that support, the ramp is pretty rock-steady, and so far there are no ball jumps since. I still think there is a lot of inertia going on because the ball will skin the plastic cover that covers the switch on that wireform, but at least the balls are staying on. Anyone else do something similar? I would suggest getting one of the black rubber squares if you try it, but the blue doesn't look bad, given the colors of the game. I can post some pics tonight when I get home if anyone is interested.
Quoted from PiperPinball:Ya I did something similar. Stacked 3 small, silicone pads on top of each other.
It eliminated any vibration and helps with airballs.
Yep, same thing...I just used a square bumper pad. I really do think the majority of the flyoff problem is the bounce on that ramp. When the ball get to the top of the ramp, the wireform sags, but then recovers as the ball gets to the middle of the loop and actually bounces up as the ball starts down the other side. That little bounce is enough to send the ball over the edge in many cases.
Quoted from PiperPinball:Everyone should check their magnet to sure its level. Mine dropped down a bit. We adjusted it about a degree clockwise. Now its nice and level with the playfield.
So are you saying the magnet dropped down in the core, or the whole assembly?
The rubber pad I was referring to. It is just thick enough to prop up the wireform and add some needed support. Easily removable, but since it's install, I have not lost any balls over the rail....keeping fingers crossed. Sorry about the quality of the pic...dark room and I didn't want to remove the glass.lol
Quoted from iceman44:I don't know if you guys can see this or not but I dropped the motor, wasn't hard, remember it was half hanging on to begin with because of missing screws.
The wiring assembly is wrapped around the motor!
No wonder the wiring had no slack. Wtf!!!
Wow....just wow. I have pretty much shrugged at having to tweak these games out of the box, but that is just plain crap. Someone testing the mech had to have known something had gone wrong....that broken weld obviously hooked the wire harness, so you know it went out that way and wasn't from banging around in the truck. Stern is going to owe you a truckload of beer when you get it all straightened out.
Remember when all we had to worry about were playfield dimples? lol
Quoted from cooked71:The discussion has not been about whether its necessary, but whether to move it from the outside of the left ramp, to the inside. It is without doubt necessary as BrewinBombers said, but moving it opens up the left orbit significantly.
Still haven't figured out what the problem is for everyone with the left orbit. After a few games, I can hit that orbit just about every time, and I have moved nothing. I would give some time for the corners of the pad to flatten out a bit, or maybe it just takes some getting used to...but the more games you put on it, the smoother everything becomes. No need for tweaks on mine.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Pinstein:Thats a great idea. I think I have some black acrylic and I can cut out those wing points. I may have to try that. Thanks
Yes, I think the Bat-a-rang protector needs to be made.............I would be in for one just for the looks. But you need to use the old version.
3 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:I still have the machine. Covered. It now gets played for a day or so when the new code drops and is almost like the old code, then goes back into hibernation for 3-5 weeks until the next drop.
Anyone who believes that Lyman is being given full time to work on Batman '66 NOW is a rube. The code drops are way too sparse to account for 40 hours x the number of weeks it took since the last drop (in the case of .70 that was 5 weeks. The update was no way, no how 200 hours of work). And if they believe that he will be given time to polish it out into a masterpiece, I have a bridge to sell you. He's being pulled in too many directions, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was working on at least parts of one or two other pins currently besides Batman.
Nothing Gomez has said regarding Batman'66 code has come to pass. His two week promised "Gomez drop" schedule "until we getcha there" never materialized, and the space between drops is getting longer and longer, most recently 5 weeks.
In our case, this was supposed to be a cool "thank you" to players on a route, but the machine is so shallow with almost no content that we won't even put it on route. The operator I work with is not a happy camper about the whole situation. So the machine's up for sale, and if it sells, great. If it doesn't, at the current rate we should be able to put it out in late Summer with beta code for players to finally enjoy. Until then, it sits covered, waiting for the engine to make it fun.
Holy crap, is there an "off" button on all of this? We all know your point of view by heart so can you just stop beating the same drum? You have no way of knowing ANYTHING about where Lyman is and/or what he does so stop trying to convince everyone you do. It's the same dribble every time I come to the thread... I don't mind someone voicing an opinion, but voicing it over and over and over and over gets old.
Quoted from PinMonk:It's drivel, actually.
And if people stop posting stuff saying I don't have a BM'66 to play, or "is the code dropping today?" ad nauseum, etc, I won't always be posting in response. I don't post on this stuff anymore unless someone else posts first.
And if it's really too much for you, ignore works great. But there will still be drivel around here.
No I spelled it correctly.....it is dribble just rolling down your chin. I would also use a whole lot of other terms for it as well. You are trying so hard to convince people of your point when you have no factual basis for anything. All you have in a opinion based on something you claim to do. Even if you were right I have a news flash for you......no one cares...........
3 weeks later
Quoted from cooked71:Can't believe this update is just a 0.01!! Imagine what we'll get by 1.01!!! Game won't be recognizable.
lol, I am guessing the .01 designator is more than likely poking fun at those in this thread that are hung up on what number the code revision is assigned. The version number means nothing as far as quantity of code goes, it is just an arbitrary number the programmer assigns to the revision. You will probably see a small code change with a big revision number somewhere in the future...lol
3 weeks later
Quoted from taz:Huh?
Sorry, I got 2 posts mixed up. My bad........but I still disagree with you on the release content. This is all progress to a good end goal, and I think everyone is too quick to judge on the individual releases. It takes several layers to get where we need to be unless Lyman just stops dropping incremental code all together and outright finishes things....but then everyone would be having a melt down and would be accusing him of abandoning the code. Pretty much a no-win situation for him and we just need to have fun and be happy we are getting drops as promised....maybe not as fast as promised, but they are still happening.
Quoted from PinMonk:Now you're hallucinating replies from me that aren't there. Nice.
I wasn't hallucinating anything, I simply mis-read something and am big enough to admit I made a mistake. It was easy to jump to such a conclusion, given your history in this and the other BM66 thread.
Quoted from Sethman:when you're about to initialize the update, which settings are you using? Update type: Quick or Full ?
Verify: on or off?
These can definitely lengthen the update time depending on which combination you were using. I've been just using the default "Quick, no verify".
Same...took less than 30 mins last night.
Quoted from thundergod76:Yep I've tried both. CN9/CN15. I know ur not supposed to drop and drag the folder. Are you supposed to extract all files before the usb transfer?
Although some have done it to the thumb drive, that method has caused issues for many. Download the file to a PC and extract it there. Then insert the thumb drive and drag the file to that drive.....do not drag the folder. When you look at the drive, you should just see the one file. Several have complained about similar situations to your when they try to do the extract on the thumb drive.
3 weeks later
Quoted from jgentry:Maybe he had his fingers crossed behind his back when he said it.
No way around it, Gomez said regular updates with the goal of ever 2 weeks until this game is finished. Stern once again has not even remotely lived up to their statements when it comes to code. I'm really liking my AS, but I waited until I had seen enough of the code to know I would be happy with it before buying. I'd love to own a awesomely coded BM66 and will buy one if that happens. My money won't be spent based on sterns BS promises though. Seeing is believing.
First off I was just poking fun....hence the lol
But with that said, the complaints about Stern and broken promises, lack of communication, and everything else under the sun have been well documented here for a whole lot longer than Batman was ever under consideration. We can't have it both ways here.....either they are not dependable and never to be believed......or they are the saints that unexpectedly let us down. So realistically, if anyone really believed what Gomez said in a literal sense, then they have been living under a rock for a long time.
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:Having software that sucks initially (Walking Dead) but is complete, then waiting for it to get good is COMPLETELY different than having software that's nowhere close to complete 7 months after release. Walking dead shipped with 1.11 software. Batman '66 shipped with 0.57. Big difference.
7 months after release Walking dead was on version 1.25. As we approach the 7 month marker, Batman'66 is on 0.75 - not even at 1.00. So no, not the same, or even close.
Please....the comparison is just stupid. As stated about a million times, we all knew there was little code to start with...unlike TWD, not to mention it is a different system, different video, different mechanics, etc. You cannot compare anything about the two. I was at the factory last week, and I can tell you what I was told when I asked what Lyman was working on......but because you coded video games somewhere in the past, he will never be up to your expectations. Relax and enjoy the 4th....good things are coming.
Quoted from J85M:Please do, I would be greatful to know what they said if there was anything other than he's working on BM66 said, like maybe what Sterns next title is
I would never be privy to any new titles, but I can assure you he is working hard on BM66. Good things are coming......
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Stern seem to have really dropped the ball this year regarding regular code updates.
Ok, it's great they have got the production line busy but why can't they keep us in the loop more regarding updates?
Because nothing would be good enough and they would be roasted no matter what they did. Why would anyone submit for that kind of abuse? Better to just leave people guessing.
Quoted from iceman44:1000% agree.
This is a wtf moment
Here comes SW with what seems to be nearly full blown code.
Why, after they made the Expo $$ grab, which is fine and I participated in, are we still at this point in the software?
Yes I know it will end up being awesome with typical Lyman but seriously, its a wtf moment!
Maybe...just maybe he is taking his time to do a meaningful code drop because of the constant whining that the more frequent drops were not good enough. Maybe he is tired of some people making a lot of assumptions based on no fact at all. Had Lyman made the comment about code every 2 weeks, I would have put a lot more stock in it. Gomez made the comment, and he can say anything he wants, he is not the person coding the game. Lyman never said 2-weeks, yet he is the one everyone blames.
I will admit I am a defender on BM when it comes to code, but if you are thinking about the Bat Signal spotlight topper, my suggestion is to save your money. Had to re-work mine.....the quality left a lot to be desired. They are using a $29 spot light and actually using a bead of silicone to hold in a 29 cent plastic insert with the BM logo. There was silicone all over the lens and the bead around the edge was smeared, which made the whole thing look like crap. Took it all apart and fixed it, and now it looks OK, but not what I was hoping it would be. Just sloppy work, and nowhere near the value of what they are charging. Even with the circuit board they installed in the light base (I don't know what it does), the unit is way over-priced.
Quoted from iceman44:I'm sure they have Lyman focused on Elvira 3 pre launch.
Wtf
I can say for a fact that is not the case yet. I can't say what tomorrow will bring, but unless I was lied to on multiple levels in face-to-face discussions and visually deceived as well, he is still very much dedicated to BM66 code.
Quoted from PinMonk:52 days since the last sad Gomez Drop (that took 31 days, so really 83 days, or almost THREE MONTHS since an update of any substance) speaks more of the current state of BM'66 support.
And "dedicated" is probably too strong a word. "Still working on" is probably about the strongest truthful state of development. Notice how the Lyman is "exclusively on BM'66" language has disappeared because the length of time between updates has made that conceit laughable since 1Q this year.
And you have nothing to base that on aside from the time between drops, and some arbitrary number of days you think it should take between drops...never having coded a pinball machine. Aside from you just pulling opinions out of thin air how do you determine he is isn't working "exclusively" on BM66? (I am not talking about Gomez promising 2 week drops...I am talking about the actual programmer and the code he produces). Did you peek through his office window? How do you know the last release wasn't stuck in QA for 3 weeks and he was madly into the next segment before that one ever hit the street? How do you know it isn't done already and Stern is releasing it in small bits just to piss you off? Now I doubt the latter is true, but unless you are there, you have no way of knowing. As to your statement about "language" that has disappeared. Who are you referring to? Stern hasn't communicated anything since the Gomez Q/A, so how do you know anything has disappeared? If you are referring to my choice of words about being "dedicated", I am only stating what I know to be a fact. Just like you, I have no idea if he is or ever was working exclusively on BM66, but I know the game will be done, and it will be decent once it gets there. Will it be epic?....that is for the masses to decide, but I myself plan on keeping it around for a long time to come.
Quoted from J85M:Sounded like you did while you where at the factory but so far you have avoided any direct questions about it what you saw or where told.
I am not trying to be confrontational but can you say what you saw and heard or where you sworn to secrecy? Would just be good to share info with fellow owners and lift some spirits Stern themselves certainly are not making BM66 a particularly enjoyable/rewarding experience.
Unfortunately I have nothing to report along those lines........I just have a lot of faith. 
Quoted from thundergod76:Stern really blew it with their BM66 accessories. They waited WAY too long to release them. Seriously, who didn't already have the Bat fin side armor. Must add that the add on Bat signals are complete garbage. EVERY single one is scratched on the inner lens from the factory. I purchased 3 different beacons and all 3 are junk. The last one I had would only power up if I wiggled the cord. And even that one was scratched up. I've spent over a month and hours of my time monkeying around with these and trying to get one that is remotely worth the price. Everything is going back and I'm going use the $ to take the family to Cedar Point. The crap I've dealt with in the last 2 years with Stern is really starting to take the fun out of this hobby.
I think a lot of this frustration is that we have these expectations of near perfection these days, and I don't think Stern has embraced that philosophy yet. When all of the games were going out on route, no one worried about a scratch on a lens....but with the booming home market, and more importantly the huge rise in cost...we are now expecting more quality in return for that much cash. Stern is quick to take advantage of the home buyer, but I think they are really slow to the realization that the home buyers are not the same people as the route operators. Maybe that is a good thing, and maybe not, but if you are selling to that demographic in big numbers, then you need to give that demographic what it demands. Not sure if they will ever get there, but things are changing slowly......
Quoted from J85M:Can you not just unplug it?
Not easily, the plug is under the base. I did tinker with the idea of installing a switch on the base....it would be very easy to do. The thing is on all of the time in attract mode, and I am not sure I like that.
Quoted from PinMonk:The wait is RIDICULOUS. This is not Lyman's problem, but management, purely. This Thursday will be 63 days since the last drop, which is a bigger gap than the time between .65, .68. and .69 COMBINED. But that was right before they likely took Lyman off the project full time and the time between code drops doubled. Now, they've doubled again. We were originally told 2 weeks until they get us "there." The gap is now 8 weeks and counting heading into the 8th month since release and still nowhere close to 1.00 with a large amount of features just not coded at all or with placeholders.
Keep banging that drum......lol
Quoted from BrewinBombers:I previously believed that I was the biggest "the Batman code situation is fine and will be great" fan boy; Good to see that I've relinquished that title. Last week was a gut punch without code. If we don't have some this week, it'll be a swift kick to the boys.
I will gladly take the title, and you will thank me later............lol
Quoted from PinMonk:Unlikely. The Gomez email was to buy more time, probably at least 2 weeks from that letter, so likely 8/3-8/8.
Also, it's interesting that the letter says, "We are very close to doing the next releases which contains many of the features that the community has been asking for..."
That sentence was clearly edited and then not proofed. He probably initially said "the next release which contains" then decided that he was promising too much for one release (with Lyman on it only part time), so he changed it to "next releases" without editing "contains" making the sentence read "the next releases which contains" which no one would write in one pass since it's an obvious error.
This is ridiculous....just amazing how you are now a mind reader based on an extra letter which can be explained a million other ways. You are grasping at every straw you can to prove some kind of conspiracy, and you have no idea of ANYTHING in that letter outside of what it actually says. Maybe we should do a forensic on the message itself to see if George actually typed it, or if maybe if it was actually put together by Gary or even Lyman himself.....again, you have no idea and no facts to base anything on. The next release could put interactive character holograms on the playfield, with full Batgirl strip mode, and you are going to find fault with something. I guess you need to get your 15K worth of satisfaction for the error you made in recommending a pin that everyone knew would take lots of time to develop. Life is too short to focus this much negativity on one thing. If you know actual facts, then by all means, we can discuss them all day long.....but deciding someone's intent based on an extra letter in a sentence? Who would have thought, all of those years in investigations and I was doing it all wrong. lol
Quoted from hank527:Thevwait is just not acceptable. It's way too long between updates for this flagship title that Stern is hoping to release several more as the cost is extremely high.
It will get done, but I'm thinking it won't be finished for another year or more.
Next update should be big maybe even to. 86, bit there so much to do. The villain modes are important and no one knows how they will work.
The comment was actually a joke if you look at what I was making reference to. I still have no idea why people put so much stock in version numbers....there is no actual standard, and he can make the next drop V100 if he wants to....it means nothing so far as content goes. It is just a sequential inventory number. Please Lyman, make the next drop V365 to show you have been working on the code every day for a full year.........lol
Quoted from J85M:I guess the longer it takes the longer Lyman is working on the code?
Or at least I hope so, because at this rate it could potentially be one almighty update or like SW after all the hype and wait disappoint us.
I know Lyman will not disappoint once we have complete code, but the longer this drop takes the more I'm expecting and that's only because I am genuinely excited for the potential of BM66, what's already there entertains me more than AS Pro and everything I have seen of SW.
I know for a fact he is working hard on it.....I am really stoked for this next version......
Quoted from davidSpumpkins:Someone please fill me in here, is Lyman Sheets the only coder at Stern? I'm thinking someone with his talent would be doing mostly higher level design work, with junior programmers doing the bulk of the coding and testing to his requirements. I have been on firmware development teams and rarely can one person do it all. Maybe Stern is too small to afford a team, but of course then there is gained efficiency of iterative design work on a working prototype, especially when dealing with the complex asynchronous-input state machine designs involved with pinball.
There are others that help, but Lyman does do the bulk of the coding. I believe one or two of the unsung programmers are going into the rotation with their own games soon, which is a good thing. Lyman has not been reassigned, and he will finish BM66. I have complete faith.
Quoted from taz:Well, how many of us were ever able to work on just one thing at a time in any job? I think we've all juggled more than one thing in our various fields and done so fairly successfully. If a big new update to BM66 comes soon (Minor Villains anyone), Stern will have some good will for a period of time.
However, (and Stern I beg you to listen closely to this) if another game is released by Stern with Lyman doing the coding without significant progress on BM66, I predict it'll be the beginning of the end for Stern. Hell hath no fury like what will rain down on them in a PR disaster if that happens. Too many big spender, nearly automatic LE buyers like myself bit on the over priced BM66 amid promises of catching the code up quickly, and nothing would guarantee the catastrophic loss of our customer base than releasing a new Lyman coded game before BM66 is "significantly" further along. Surely, Stern knows that and the fact that it would be goodbye to any future hope of SLE sales. In fact, I dare them to do it, I triple dog dare them! (skipping the usual double dog protocols, of course).
Lyman's next game is Elvira, which was announced some time ago. I'm absolutely sure the company and designers are deep into that pin, but right now Lyman is focused on making Batman Great Again......
Quoted from MK6PIN:They commented on my inquiry for code just a few minutes ago:
https://www.facebook.com/sternpinball/posts/10155577364429244?comment_id=10155602283004244¬if_t=feed_comment¬if_id=1502323833129034
does the # at the end mean 1.0?
No, it means we need another dollar......lol JK
Actually, this all means just exactly what many are hoping for, and many already know.....that good things are coming. It is also a dig at those that say they are not working 100% on the code, or that they don't support the project 100%.
The bittersweet part of these posts is that probably means we will have to wait a while longer for a release. #itsworthit
Quoted from docquest:Here's some feedback today from George Gomez regarding BM66. It came from the Spike vs Sam reliability thread and was a response to the comment that Batman66 was just a cheap rehash of Batman TDK:
"On Batman and the notion that we are going away from designing full games:
Response: We produce 3 cornerstone games every year. In addition we may produce smaller runs of studio titles and other special games. Every cornerstone is designed from scratch and includes a Pro, Premium and LE version. Batman was not a cornerstone game; it was an anniversary edition designed to celebrate 30 years of Stern Pinball. The designers chose to build on their previous Batman model in order to improve on their own design. The game was also the first Spike 2 LCD game which required substantial effort from the design team for that reason. Development on the code is ongoing and the team is dedicated and committed to finishing the game. The key members of the team intend to buy the game with their own money and add it to their personal collections and to that end they want it to be something they can be proud off. They will not abandon the game."
I know some people on Pinside are dubious of anything George says after the "Every two weeks" fiasco but I see this as good news and welcome it.
I watched that video and some of his comparison points were valid, but much of it was exaggerated and he definitely had his own agenda. And as to the part about recycling an old design...well I could care less so long as the game gives me the entertainment I paid for and expected. There are just so many ways to bang a ball around a playfield, and i could care less if they re-use a toy, especially a moving bash toy. We don't complain when all of the games have pop bumpers and drop targets, so why does it matter so long as their are distinct differences? I don't think anyone has ever guaranteed a game to be 100 percent new concept. I am betting some of our pinball historians could point to many older games being the influence for newer ones.
Quoted from J85M:The whole Spike system is typical Stern, a great idea but poorly executed.
I am hopeful that once there is demand one of the current board companies will start making replacement boards for Spike.
The fact there isn't a lot of demand says it isn't too bad..........We will see in 20 years, give or take a few.
Quoted from docquest:Really I didnt realize anyone actually had a "pinstripe" guy.
So what is real pinstriping? A paint process?
Yes it is a brushed on paint, although there are a few that do it with an airbrush. Most custom bike shops have talented pinstripe artists, and I love watching them. They use a lot of different brushes for different effects, and it is not something just anyone can do. You need a steady hand and a lot of artistic talent.
Quoted from Sethman:manimal I think you should drop in the office and give some people a swift kick in the ass. Code soon, where
I think I'm on team Vireland now.
As you say that, I am working on a trip over for a different reason, so I will see what I can do. I will admit, I was never given a timeline, but based on my conversations, I would have bet it would have been before now. I am assuming they just decided to keep going more towards the finish line to get more of the modes completed, but then again, maybe everyone over there said the hell with the code and are in the back room playing poker.... lol
Quoted from Sethman:LOL thanks man, appreciate it.
Just massively frustrated, like many others, how this has played out.
For me, if this were my only machine, I would probably be right up there with you. But given I have a few others, it doesn't bother me much. I won't go as far as all of the others to say I am happy with the code as it sits, but it is better than some other turds out there. They pretty much have to come out with something soon, or Gomez will get roasted at the stake! lol
Quoted from PinMonk:Literally EVERY owner should be yelling Stern's ear off. I have no idea why there are still people defending the FACT that we're almost 3/4 of a YEAR since release and it's STILL nowhere close to even a 1.00 releasable version. Crazy. We're are 81 days since the last Gomez drop. Also Crazy, when "every two weeks until we getcha there" was originally stated pre-release.
Like I said a while ago when people were just calling me essentially a "Debbie downer" - I'm one of the only ones calling out the truth, just most people didn't seem ready to hear it. That's changing - FINALLY. To let this slide silently is to give Stern license to do this nonsense AGAIN, and that should NEVER happen.
And if the truth be known, your constant "calling of the truth" as you put it, is likely the biggest reason we don't have any incremental code drops. We all know Stern pays attention to what is posted...they may not comment, but don't kid yourself into thinking they don't follow these threads. You are unhappy they are working to get a major drop, and you were unhappy when they were giving us incremental drops that you decided were due to the janitor banging out code in the broom closet less than 1 hour each week. And the graph...oh my god, the graph is just comical...do you really need a graph to illustrate how many days between code drops? We all know this has taken longer than any of us spoiled kids would like, but this is just freaking pinball...we will get to a happy place, I am sure of it. I am as frustrated as anyone to walk by my game and know there are good things on the way....but I go on with life and find something else to occupy my time. I don't sit around and whine and make it sound like Stern did us some terrible wrong, when in fact, we did it to ourselves. It could be worse, we could all have money tied up in a Big Lebowski, or have a Magic Girl sitting in our houses. Let's be grateful for what we have..............
Quoted from hawkmoon:Can;t we all just be friends??Please???
We are all good....this is just pinball and no ill will here. Doesn't mean we will agree on many things, and being vocal about that doesn't mean we are enemies....just means we are human.
Just like your comment about being practical.....I would say that I am the one being practical by not losing sleep over this. Constantly making an issue out of this is just a waste of time and isn't going to make the code come quicker, which is the definition of impractical in my eyes. lol
Quoted from frolic:Christopher Franchi said he hopes his next game might debut at Expo. My gut (with no inside info) is that this could be the Elvira game, which would be another boutique release.
The only way another boutique run will sell is if the Batman code is seen as mostly complete by then. The pool of buyers for these games is pretty small.
They could release Elvira at Whitewood and it will sell like crazy....even better than BM66 by far. People do not learn, and they will all jump in just the same. For those that won't, there are 10 that will...............
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah, sure. Don't blame Gomez and Stern for shipping a woefully unfinished game and repeatedly making commitments they didn't keep and literally lying to the owners with things like "Lyman is on Batman full time" long after it was clear he was splitting his time with other projects. Blame the customers. Somehow twist it into Gomez was butt-hurt because *I* was calling him out on his BS. Yeah, that's good. And that doesn't hold water because I didn't really start complaining until many, MANY "Gomez Drops" had been missed. So what's the excuse for those missed commitments? Regardless of what that is, we're over 8 months since the game was released and nowhere near a shippable 1.00 version with even MOST of the stuff coded, not all. That has never happened in Modern Stern history, but it's my fault.
Give me a break.
I don't blame them a bit for selling an unfinished game......they can't sell a thing without a buyer, and we all bit! If anyone is to blame, it is all of us here.....we showed them we would pay a premium for a broken promise, and say "thank you" in the process. They will do it again, because they learned they can. Life is too short for all of this man....enjoy some summer sun and good things will come in due time. There are millions of folks that would trade all of us places, any day of the week......even with a BM66 doorstop.
Quoted from jfh:Can't agree with this. Stern did something unprecedented with Batman - they released a game to meet an artificial calendar deadline with (apparently) no other reason after it was clear to them they weren't going to meet their original schedule.
Yes, there were buyers who bit but most because (a) they really wanted an LE or SLE (which, unlike most Stern LEs, were actually limited) and (b) were willing to gamble that Lyman would eventually do the game code justice or (c) didn't want to forfeit deposits.
The only benefit to releasing Batman before the game was finished was to allow Adam West to see the game before he died (though Stern certainly couldn't have know that). Any other reason Stern used to justify the early release decision shows that they take their customer base for granted.
The decision to release a Batman early was short-sighted (and IMO, stupid). The Gomez "two weeks comment" was an ill-advised attempt at damage control, but what they have done since with Batman is reasonable and we should not pass judgement until Stern considers the game complete.
I'm confident Stern (and distributors) understand how this has impacted Batman 66 Premium sales (and potentially sales of future titles with early code). If they don't change because of that, shame on them. If we give them a pass on another title (waves to SW buyers), shame on us.
If you really think they care a whole lot about the sales of this boutique game, then you are going to be disappointed. They have a bunch of other games they can put in it's place, and they have a pretty good backlog of orders at the moment, so I don't think they are losing any sleep over BM66 sales.
But aside from that, I never said it was a good business decision, or that it wasn't a just a cash grab. We all know that is was nothing more than stern throwing a bright and shiny object out there and watching everyone fight for it. You know they were laughing their asses off at the way people were acting, they had to be. People were sending in videos for Christ's sake, trying to show how they were a worthy soul to be able to pay $15K for a game that barely worked. They played us all like chumps, and as I said, we all bit. When I say I don't blame them....I really don't. In a free market, I can put anything I want up for sale, so long as it is legal. Market determines whether I made a good decision or not. Most of us (you included) have admitted we bought the games knowing full well there was no meaningful code. You can argue that we were promised code sometime soon, etc, etc....but just because someone promises you something, does not necessarily mean it will happen. There is a risk involved in any transaction. So we all bought this box of lights with a lazy susan on the playfield, and took the chance Stern would deliver us some good code. Had we been lied to about the status of the code, it would be a different story, and I would place the blame on them....but they told us from the start they had almost no code completed. Now I know for a fact the code is coming, and despite what some would like you to believe, I know for a fact that Lyman is hard at work on this and it is his #1 priority right now. Do I think he is chained to his desk....probably not. So the big complaint here is that the code has not come fast enough...that is all. We are not complaining about the build quality, we are not complaining about electrical shorts, .....we are talking about the frequency of code drops. Again, we are all adults...lots of things could have happened here, and we took the risk. Stern could go out of business before the code was finished, Lyman could leave the company, Gomez might decide he doesn't like anyone from California, etc.....my point is that any number of things could have happened and we would be sitting with a box that had no code and never would. WE TOOK THE RISK........so I do not blame anyone at Stern......I BLAME US. Why do you think Stern keeps raising the game prices at every release? Because people are lining up to shell out the cash.......again I BLAME US. If we stop paying, then they will lower the price. Yes, they played us like fiddles.....I will freely admit that. But they never held a gun to our heads..........
Quoted from jfh:I think for the most part we are in violent agreement.
And, no, I don't really care about the potential lost sales of BM66 (other than the extent to whoch sales levels will impact code or game support). If Stern is so cocky that maximizing sales of any given title isn't important to them, there is nothing any of us can do about it. If Stern considers me a sucker for buying BM66 (and that turns out to be right), it's the last Stern game I'll ever buy.
HAHA...I love that term "Violent Agreement". I don't know if they really consider us "suckers", but I do think they pushed the envelope with a "let them eat cake" attitude. They don't lose any sleep if jfh or Manimal don't have code.......lol
Quoted from frolic:I don't know about that. I think in the end this was a miscalculated gamble to get the game out for the 30th anniversary. They could be doing the best they can. It all depends on whether the final game is delivers on its potential. Then we can decide their attitude.
Hell, considering Adam West died recently, and I'm sure call outs are recorded late in the process, who knows if he would have ended up being in the game at all otherwise if the game didn't come out last year.
If they hadn't gone to the "15k Super LE" model and asked people to send videos begging to be able to buy one, I would agree with you. It wasn't a gamble for them because they knew people would line up.......and line up we did.
I have said all along the code will do this game justice, and don't get me wrong......I am not complaining. The game is already a keeper in my books. But you have to admit looking back, there were a lot of silly things going on. I am betting most of the 15k buyers would sell today if they could get their money back.
Quoted from MattS:I know you said most not all but I know of 4 people, including myself, that would not let their SLE's go.
I'm sure there were SLE buyers expecting to make money on a flip but my friends and I are all in for the long haul, we love Batman. Is the sum of the different parts in the SLE worth $5k more than the LE, of course not. Is the SLE worth it to ME? Absolutely.
I loved Batman as a kid in the 70's, I love Batman now.
I was lucky enough to meet one of my childhood heroes at Expo, shake his hand, tell him how much I enjoyed his work, and get a picture with him. I will never forget that.
I made some great new friends standing in line to meet Adam in Chicago last year. We stayed in touch, had a great time at TPF, and are now planning to get together at Expo this year, how do you put a price on that?
As far as code goes, I have zero concern it will get done. I highly recommend talking to George and or Lyman at a show sometime if you (the collective you) get a chance. They are unbelievably cool guys and Batman fans to the core. They love pinball just as much as we do, probably even more than some of us.
When was the last time Lyman signed a playfied? I'm confident he will put everything he has into this game to make it great.
I know it has been a long time but code will happen and BM66 will go down as one of the best in history.
And I am adult enough to admit I could be wrong. It's very possibly a dream theme for more folks than I figured, and probably expains why there aren't any SLE's or LE's for sale to speak of. I weighed the 9K+ price tag pretty heavily, and I am sure those of you at 15K did too.
I have zero concern on the code as well, and I know it will get there. As to meeting Adam...he was a great guy, and I enjoyed meeting him as well. I don't know if I would call him a childhood hero, but I sure enjoyed his show, and still do to this day! It may sound a bit harsh, but I don't put that much stock in meeting actors or getting pictures or autographs. If I had got to know Adam as a real person, and we hung out as buds, then that would be special. But just because I stood in line to get a picture and a signature from a guy that didn't know me 10 seconds after I left is not that big of a deal to me...it's just another day for both of us. Don't get me wrong, I am glad I met him, and I am sure he was one heck of a guy...I just never really knew him as a person. I just knew a character he played....one that someone else conceived and wrote lines for.
I always loved the character of Marshall Matt Dillion played by James Arness on the Gunsmoke western series from the same era. Many years ago I had a chance to meet Mr. Arness, and in the early days of e-mail, we developed into quite the pen-pals. We E-mailed back and forth for some time before he became sick and ultimately passed away. I got to know the man behind the character, and he was a wonderful person. I cherish that friendship and the thoughts we shared, and during that time I never asked him for an autograph or picture. He was just another friend.....now a Gunsmoke pinball....THAT would be a killer pin in my opinion, but I don't think the younger generation would get it these days! lol
Quoted from J85M:Kapow have done a stand alone Superman 78 slot (its in the link I posted above), maybe it's a coincidence but it looks exactly the same as the Batman 66 slot almost a re-theme of sorts.
If Stern have any marketing sense (big IF) SM78 would the perfect follow up Kapow pin to BM66, it's the most belowed incarnation of the worlds most beloved superhero, plus the pin community has been asking for a new superman pin forever.
Beatles is a very good second choice though but it doesn't have the same pull imo as having BM66 & SM78 sat next to each other.
So what do we call a Super....Superman Limited Edition? lol Would we have to break into a vault to afford one? I could see the Stern Pricing slogan now.......Up Up and Away!
As I have said many times, I have no issue with waiting on the code since that is what I signed up for. Given Stern's track record of broken promises, I pretty much expected the Gomez comment would never hold, and again, I bought the pin without code, so I have no one to blame but myself. I Know for a fact the code is going to be really sweet when done, and I am guessing they are pushing for completion before release....but we need to be careful what we ask for. I think we would all rather have incremental drops so we can find bugs and offer feedback. Getting a "complete" drop is dangerous in that we may end up with a bunch of issues that never get fixed.
Now with all of that said, I do agree there needs better communication. I said it with GB and I say it here as well. I realize for Stern this is no easy thing because people are going to bitch, moan and complain, no matter what they do. But they know that up front and still choose to serve this market, so I do think they have the responsibility to give updates....at least on this pin if not others. I say that because they asked us to put a lot of trust in them for spending extra thousands on their "anniversary pin" that had no code, and wouldn't for some time. That trust needs to go both ways....just as we trusted them, they need to trust we will be adult enough to deal with information updates for the pins we paid a top premium for.
And for the real kick in the pants.....I may not have my BM66LE long enough to enjoy the new code when it comes...lol I took a promotion and will be transferring out of state in the next few months. My wife and I are very seriously considering a total downsize into a small apartment or Condo because this will be only a few year assignment before we retire in the Pacific Northwest and start travelling more. If we do downsize, the entire game room will be no more..........very bittersweet. Still deciding, but the thought of no house or grounds to maintain is very appealing these days.
Quoted from iceman44:The redneck army is a powerful force!
Indeed, when Y'all are done down there, we have a little issue in North Korea I would like some of you to tackle.......lol
Seriously, glad you and yours are OK, and prayers for everyone in that area. This will be a long healing process for the country..........
Quoted from PinMonk:Exactly 0.00% of what your Stern sources told you so far about Gomez drops came to pass, but knock yourself out.
Only when it comes to the release date, and that I will admit was changed to something completely different from what I was told. I believe it was the correct thinking at the time, but somewhere along the line they decided there were not going to be any more incremental drops. Other than that, I think time will tell if what I was told and saw is correct. I was over there today, but everyone is pretty tight lipped and tense over there these days, so I decided not to push the issue. I did not learn anything new as far as BM66 is concerned.
Quoted from Rasavage:I doubt the repercussions would be all that severe since there just aren't that many of us Batman 66 owners. blockquote>
Correct, I remember them saying at the start that they expected this to be a very small run game.
Quoted from docquest:I thought I remember hearing some high end players (Keith Elwin maybe?) get some early peaks at the updated Tron code to try out and comment on before Stern released it to the public.
I don't think that is a general rule unless they are doing a dead flip stream or something along those lines.
Quoted from PinMonk:They lied to you or just told you what you wanted to hear. You can get more truthful information from their facebook page. These are the Stern whoppers you bought into in the last 6 weeks:
47 days ago
"unless I was lied to on multiple levels in face-to-face discussions and visually deceived as well, he is still very much dedicated to BM66 code. "
(you were lied to, but this one is slippery because "dedicated" can mean different things)
45 days ago
"I am sensing good vibes this week......... "
(nothing happened)
28 days ago
"I know he is close on a drop"
(nothing happened)
26 days ago
"Lyman has not been reassigned"
(common knowledge by that point Lyman hadn't been working on Batman 66 full time for months)
Why defend the indefensible at this point? I mean we're weeks away from a YEAR since BM'66, their premium model anniversary pin, was first shown, and still running alpha code. That is a failure on EVERY level by Stern.
You can twist anything you want, you are so embedded in your Stern hatred that you refuse to see any logic or accept anything other than your own opinion.
You have never coded a pinball, you have never coded a pinball with an LCD, yet you somehow know Lyman is magically off on another project and has all but abandoned Batman. On the other hand, I have been there and physically seen folks on more than one occasion, deeply involved in developing this game. I have said many times I cannot account for what Lyman does with his day because I am not in his office all day, but I do know for a fact he is very dedicated to finishing this code and he has not been "re-assigned". Where is your "common knowledge" source? I sure haven't read anything to that fact other than the garbage in this thread. He could very well be working on something else...(again I don't follow the man around)....but I know for a fact his main focus is finishing this code. You can call those facts whatever you want, but anyone that knows me, also knows I am about as brutally honest as anyone.
I was wrong on the timeline for a drop and I freely admit that, but I don't think I was lied to, nor did I lie. There was a decision made later to just finish the code, and I don't work there and am not privy to the decisions they make, nor would I expect to be. What I learned was simply from casual conversations, and I believe Gomez explained that decision to another person who posted earlier in this thread. It sucks for all of us, but that is the way it is, and I am looking forward to having a complete code, rather than a piece at a time.
If you spend any time at all with the folks over at Stern....especially the programmers, you can see a huge passion for what they do. I am constantly amazed at how excited folks over there get about a project they are working on. They may not be able to tell you what the project is, but you can see the passion in their eyes and in how animated they get. All of this "they don't care about us" is pure bullshit, and no matter how instant we would like everything to be, the reality of it all is this is a lot more complex than any of us know that don't do it for a living. I have an idea: Why don't you come to expo in October and the 2 of us can go and ask some questions to get a better perspective? I will be happy to go along and I am betting we can arrange a meet with Gomez or Lyman at some point and maybe you can give them some pointers? I'm game...
My 25 cent prediction for all of this is that you will not be happy with the code that comes, and you will still complain that it could have been so great, but it obviously suffered because Lyman was already off to the next project, etc. etc. I can see it now, and no amount of code will make this right for you.
One last thing....all of this has been lighthearted up to this point, and we can passionately disagree on something as meaningless as all of this, and I hold no ill-will at anyone. But start to accuse me of lying or telling "whoppers" as you put it, and you cross the line into a personal attack. That becomes a whole different ball game that neither one of us want to play.
Quoted from Mayboyz:I think stern has been not telling the truth on a lot of things.
But me buying an SLE i was promised in writing this game would be complete.
You cannot buy parts ( Decals, Armor, topper parts, Cabinet decals, assemblies or plastic sets)
Who ever heard on not being able to buy parts?
They have not done right by this pin and I'm not sure they are going to either.
They have big problems in the STERN house and the only way to fix this is to not buy there pins.
Its all about $$$ to them no longer quality.
Correct, but this has been the case for a long time. They do not sell LE or SLE parts for any of their games unless you send the old parts back for exchange. They do not want people building their own LE or SLE and trying to sell them for inflated prices. They have stated this on numerous occasions.
Quoted from docquest:The super simple imexpensive mod to light the riddler saucer green and the penguin scoop purple look great. I'd recommend that one to all Batman66 owners. If you dont want to make it yourself I think mezelmods.com has them.
As far as brightening the playfield up I was gonna go with some extra spot lites but decided to try the pinstadium kit instead. That will brighten up the entire playfield and also have options for UV glow flashers and also be GI controlled. I was in on the preorder for it so i should be receiving it soon.
For the speaker lights I was able to use the ones sold by pinball life. I had to enlarge the holes in the speaker light mounting bracket a little but other than that it fit fine with my.flipper fidelity upgraded speakers. I think it looks great along side the color LCD. I can take some pics of the inside of the speaker panel if people are interested.
Maybe you already addressed this, but where did you get the bat emblems for the speaker grilles?
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from BrewinBombers:They basically MUST release whatever they have or it's going to be an extraordinarily uncomfortable Expo.
One would think that to be the case, but as was stated in an earlier post, they would probably hear a few remarks and respond that they are "working hard towards completed code" and then promise it to be "really special" and then folks will drop back into the shadows and wait just as they have been. People talk a good game, but when it comes right down to it, there is going to be very little said if there is still no code...at least not in a public forum. There will be no pitchfork wielding group of peasants wanting to drag Gary out to the parking lot and boil him in oil.
I am not saying I agree or disagree with any approach....I am just saying that is how things usually work. And because of that trend (Vireland surely has a graph somewhere that will show it....lol (Just busting your chops)) Stern will not loose any sleep about the BM66 code. It will either be done and ready, or it will not....but expo will have very little to do with the actual timing.
Quoted from J85M:AS sales peaked at reveal but have declined and SW is not selling anywhere near as well as expected.
I know I am going to get accused of making something up when I say this part is not true, but it isn't. There may be a few collectors that are passing on the SW theme, but the route operators are loving it because it is earning a lot more than most other games. Maybe that is just the theme, or maybe it is the play, but the route guys are happy with SW and I am told the orders are very robust. I have personally seen the parts and cabinets stacked up for production on both SW and AS, so I doubt Stern is singing the blues. I don't know what the targets actually are, but they are still selling well.
Quoted from docquest:Its drawn that way on the pinball game side drains as well.
"Batman Day" is an annual day promoted by DC to celebrate all things Batman. It started 4 years ago to commemorate the 75'th anniversary of his first Batman comic.
This year it was yesterday, Saturday Sept 23'rd. I was hoping Stern would use that day to maybe tease us with some more solid code update news. I guess not.
For a minute, I thought someone had come up with a new apron mod
Scuttle Butt is before Expo, so I am hoping with so many folks saying the same thing it is true. I am also told Lyman has been doing all of his code himself, and they have finally hired him a "code helper" such as some of the other developers have. Someone can verify that at expo, but it is good news if true.
Quoted from PinMonk:Exactly. For almost 5 months with Lyman "full time" on it like Gomez was fond of saying, it should be a huge update putting it at or over 1.00 with way more than just cliffhangers coded.
I think we need a reverse graph that counts down to Expo.......lol But I'm still not convinced it is going to happen in the next week....I think they would have said something to that effect.
Quoted from iceman44:It's just the Pinside Stern haterrazzi always chiming in
I bet they are selling the shit out of it
We don't care about seeing BM66 pins Manimal, did you happen to find the missing code!
I don't think it is missing....it is real! It said so on the web......lol
Quoted from o-din:Who said that? I heard they have had their best few months of sales in many many years.
Of course there are Star Wars addicts out there that would take a second mortgage on their home, to buy any crap related to the first movie.
You would be correct O-din, but there have been several mentions in this thread and others about how bad the game was selling. Route operators are loving the money it is bringing in.
Quoted from o-din:They know nothing then, but when the Star Wars craze once again fades it's back to pinball business as usual.
I stand corrected. I was thinking it was this thread where it was mentioned how bad the game was selling, but a quick search tells me I might have this thread confused with another thread about the next game coming out. At any rate, code is soon so we should all be very happy. But outside of a few extra back glass and a few other odds and ends, I saw nothing of Batman in the plant. Hopefully some new code will revive some orders. I would like to see more of these games in the market when they are finished.......
Quoted from hank527:I think the damage is done. Lyman is working on Elvira and it shows. Does anyone believe he has been full time on BM66? No way with about 5 full months that the code would not be done. No way! Code will get finished, but my guess is it will be a long time and on Lyman's free time.
The only hope is that people bring it up at Expo and as consumers we force the change.
I'm currently loving Star Wars Premium right now. Seems Dwight may be the safest bet out of the gate anymore.
And it shows how? Statements like this always get me....you are making a huge assumption and stating it as a fact. All you know is you haven't received BM66 code. Lyman may be working on the machine after Elvira, maybe he is playing checkers in the back of the plant for 6 hours a day, or maybe he is working on BM66...the truth is that none of us know. Unless there is someone here that I don't know about, none of us have ever coded a pinball game, let alone a pinball game with an LCD screen and several years worth of material to try and incorporate. All we know for sure is we have waited a long time for the code.....none of us and I mean NONE of us have any idea how long the code actually takes to develop. There are a lot of folks here that think they do, but none of them know the timeline as a fact.
Quoted from PinMonk:I'll add a data point. Batman'66 SLE has pulled ahead of Dialed In earnings on route over the past couple weeks. I guess most people get 3-5 minute games, so it doesn't matter there's little content and Dialed In's a better game.
Whaaaaaaaat? Can I get a graph on the earnings comparison? lol
Quoted from FourFlippers:Not to side track this too much but they may have a bigger issue today. I operate a Star Wars Premium and 1 day after the new 0.92 code drop the fork ramp motor quit. Did some tests and it appeared to be the controller board. Spoke to Chaz at Stern and they overnighted another board. It worked again for 1 day then failed again. Checked Pinside last night and this seems to have become epidemic and points to a code issue causing the board to burn up.
Basically, at Expo, they could be running into a really serious PR problem...they're 2 premiere games, one without adequate code and the other without the main feature working.
They better get a handle on this NOW!!!!
They had a similar issue early on, which is why they did a quick emergency release. I can guarantee you Dwight was working through the night to figure that out if he was aware of it. Until talking with him the past few weeks, I had no idea the software could do so much damage to the different boards and how careful they have to be.
And on a side note, I tried to reply to the "free drink" offer......but the post got denied because I was posting twice in quick succession to the same thread. Since when can you not post 2 back to back totally different posts?
Quoted from iceman44:No way, doesn't pass the smell test! Actually smells like a big steaming pile of turd if you ask me.
Like Mark and others, I refuse to believe they would even consider abandoning BM66. I still believe it will be great eventually.
We bought it, we are stuck with it so why not make the best of it!
.80 code tells me Lyman has been working on every other title and a little bit on BM66.
Remember, its all about keeping the line moving and BM66 ain't gonna get that done.
I can't go into specifics, but I do spend a bit of time each week or two with a couple of the Stern coders due to other mutual activities we are involved in. Some of you already suspect this based on the emails I got after a previous few posts. I try very hard to stay away from asking any specifics about games out of courtesy to them, as they are prohibited from saying much, and I do not want to put anyone into an uncomfortable position. But, in a general conversation, we have talked in great length about the length of time it takes to code a game, and the steps they have to go through. Again, I cannot go into specifics, but there are a few things to take into consideration when making the kind of assumptions outlined above.
SPIKE is a newer system for the folks at Stern, and on top of that, they added a completely new engine to run all of the video for the LCD. The programmers are still learning the new system, and it takes a lot of time to code to something you have not seen before. There is a lot of trial and error, and they make mistakes and refinements along the way. With both BM66 and SW, there is a lot of video and audio to work with, and I am told the number of lines of code to run pins like SW and BM66 is over 10 times the number of lines that exist in the older DMD games. In fact, I know the code was taking up enough room that they had to start being selective on what video and audio was included in the initial load. I also know for a fact (because I have been there) that a lot of the engineering and code staff work a lot of very long days and short nights to get this code and these games out the door. Lyman is not working on Elvira...there may be some others that are, but he is not yet. His sole focus is BM66. Again, I try very hard to stay away from trying to garner some inside knowledge...I don't want to take advantage of the relationship, but it kills me when people think they know a fact, simply based on their own opinion. Gomez screwed up with his remark and he has publicly stated he would love to have it back. But that doesn't brand him a liar, and he has also said time and time again that Lyman was solely focused on BM66, yet people still choose to believe what they decide to be the truth based on no real fact.
Yes this all sucks, and yes I was led to believe earlier that code was going to come more often, but no one intentionally lied. It was a simple case of someone at the top changing their mind and making the decision to take this out to a more developed code before a release goes out. I want the code as bad as the next guy, but making assumptions is not going to get it to us any quicker. I am sure it will be great when it is finished, and we need to keep in mind the long hours these guys put in. All you need to do is spend 20 minutes talking to guys like Gomez, Dwight, Steve Ritchie, etc, and you see their eyes light up and they ooze passion for everything pinball. They are a very good bunch of folks that take pride in what they love to do, and it shows. Don't blame them all for decisions made by a management team. None of them want a legacy of bad games with unfinished code. I probably said more than I should have, but I see these guys all of the time in their offices at 10pm and beyond without an exaggeration.
Quoted from jfh:I'm sure this is all true, but we should have heard the details from George. Or, if Stern was proactive, directly from Lyman. They certainly had to know the state of Batman code was a concern.
As it was, George effectively threw Lyman under the bus without explaining how your best programmer spends a year full time and there's nothing new to share publicly than 5 month old alpha code. It might make sense if we knew the details and challenges, but without those all we have are empty promises bad continuing frustration.
I know Lyman is passionate about pinball and Batman 66 in particular. If Stern is to regain any credibility on Batman, they need to let him explain things to us in his own words.
Maybe they would if they weren't being called liars at every turn. They are in a no win situation.
Quoted from jgentry:I have no doubt that they are good people that work hard. I have huge amounts of doubt that Lyman is working solely on BM66 and Gomez being vague gives me even more doubt. If what you say is true about new games taking 10 times longer to code then stern should be saying that and introducing us to the new team members that are going to help keep new code rolling out.
If it takes 10 times more work then we can just forget about sterns commitment to code as future games will never get much in the way of updates.
I didn't say it took 10 times as long to write. I said there were 10 times the number of lined of code.
Quoted from legionsoup:If this is really the case, how come Star Wars, which just came out, is already in the .92 code. It has lots of call outs and video clips. Shouldn't Star Wars be facing the same issues as Batman 66, and really be stalling when it comes to new code?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a disconnect since Batman has been out so much longer and is still significantly behind Star Wars when it comes to the code.
I can answer that question easily. Dwight has been working in that code non-stop. I know for a fact he has been working a lot of nights and weekends. This is his baby, and he really wants to make it special.
Quoted from ronaldvg:Again, I respect your faith, but I feel you are digging a hole here...
I am not digging anything. That is comical. I'm not making excuses for anyone....just staring what I know as fact by having seen it with my own eyes. You can choose to believe what you will, it is no skin off of my back. I just know he has put in a lot of personal time on the SW code.
Quoted from jfh:At this point, that's just an excuse. I'm not one who has called them liars. But with the complete lack of meaningful information and status in the last 6-9 months, it's easy to understand why some think Stern is lying to or misleading us.
I understand being tight-lipped about new games or unannounced products. But once a game is released there should be a steady flow of information, especially if it relates to something as critical as a quality issue, service issue or incomplete code or anything that is taking far longer than expected to address.
Providing timely status isn't giving away competitive secrets. Jack or Charlie or any of the other manufacturers could care less about Stern's coding issues, but the buyers of those games do.
I'll give Stern the same advice I gave my daughter when she was a teen - no matter how bad you think so something is, it's better to talk about it then not tell us (or worse, lie about it). She understood lying was going to result in the worst consequences and never did it again after the first time. And, if you know something is wrong, silence is NOT golden.
If Stern continues their policy of radio silence or giving us nothing of substance, this situation is just going to get worse and things will get more frustrating for all parties. Every week/month Stern keeps silent they lose some percentage of the Batman customer set no matter what ends up happening with the code. How much money that costs them in the long run remains to be seen.
Go back and read this thread or any number of others. Then put yourself in their shoes and really try to see it from their perspective. If they say anything at all they are lying and covering things up because everyone seems to know more than the people actually making the machines. I am not saying I or you would operate the same way they do, but I do understand their stance somewhat. Giving is a timeline isn't going to make the code come faster. But when all is said and done, I do think they learned a valuable lesson about putting games out with almost no code. I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, I would say the delay of the next game announcement was at least partially to get more complete code at launch.
Quoted from jgentry:Ok, but you implied it is much harder and takes longer. That means more resources are needed, right? You also implied the coders are working their buts off which also implies more resources are needed.
At this point stern seems to be considering BM66 a failure and moving on.
And there are a lot of folks here that would be mighty disappointed if they did that. If you have ever coded any kind of large project, you would know it isn't easy to just have multiple people working on the same thing. A coder puts their own personality into things and it is hard to keep that using different people. But with that said, I do know they have hiredd additional resources, and I know one is being or already has been assigned to work with Lyman.
Quoted from iceman44:I would say the "delay" is to get more of the SW and BM66 games sitting in dealer inventory sold first.
They need to get their shit together fast. No excuses.
Possibly...i really don't know that motivation for sure, but it is what I suspect. I think SW is selling a lot better than you think. I know it is out earning about everything else on route right now.
Quoted from J85M:Some fun trivia to ponder and lighten the mood regarding code.
This is every word/text that has appeared during BM66, I wonder if we will see them all in the pin, would be pretty cool to eventually have them all appear through the modes or randomly in multiballs.
All any of us want to hear is the "Plop" of the code drop..............lol (yes it is in there)
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:For the record, this is the only time I've made a pinball-related graph. But the lies, mis-directions, and delays were so egregious on this one, I felt a graph told the story best. Today is 152 days since the last Batman'66 alpha code (we're not even to BETA yet, one year on) update, and if what was said at Expo is right, they spent almost FIVE MONTHS moving the software forward 0.01.2, which is ridiculous.
OK, can we start a pool on how long it takes for someone to point out the version numbers mean nothing........lol
1 week later
Quoted from docquest:I made a little tutorial for those DIY types who may be interested in making their very own "Batmobile Parachiute Pickup Service Van".
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-tutorial-batman66-parachute-pickup-van#post-4059882
If you aren't the Martha Stewart type and don't know what a hot glue gun is, you can buy a fully assembled one for $40 shipped. I went all out and made a retro blister card pack for it. PM me if interested.
Someone needs to 3-D print a couple of chutes piled up on the ground that you can place close to the spinner, in front of the van.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I'm really loving the new code.
What a world of difference 5 months of coding did for this machine.
With the time between releases, it is obvious Lyman was not devoted to this code full time given he only went from version .80 to .81. (Sarcasm LOL)
Quoted from PinMonk:Already have an SLE. Just wondering how he got SLE decals to sell when he only had an LE and Stern wouldn't sell us a spare "safety" set when we actually have an SLE.
He probably had a cabinet issue. Stern's way of addressing the weak cabinet joints was to send out a new set of decals. I have a friend with an LE set.
Quoted from PinMonk:But why did they send SLE decals for an LE then?
Sorry, I didn't catch he had an LE. I thought he had an SLE.
Edit: went back and looked and you are correct, and in that case I have no idea. I was told they didn't sell the LE and SLE playfields and decals because they didn't want anyone trying to alter a lesser model to pass off as a limited edition. But I guess there is no real way to prevent that if you send out LE decals for a bad cabinet corner, so maybe that was just a line they fed me when I took my GBLE playfield back to swap.
Quoted from BrewinBombers:Does the shaker add much to Batman so far? I don't have a shaker, but thinking about it. Mod Couple's stuff is also so freaking tempting.
I am not a big shaker motor fan on any pin, but Lyman does do a decent job integrating it into this one.
3 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from jfh:Agree. The raw numbers are small.
What vireland didn't say was that his incessant bashing of Stern last year about the code was almost certainly a factor in the relatively high number of secondary market sales in 2Q and 3Q last year and probably still taints the Batman market for those that don't folllow it closely. (Not sure why he still seems so down on Batman, but he ignores me so we may never know).
The demand for the game has clearly spiked since around Halloween. There are people who want games that haven't been able to find them for months (though it seems like many want LEs) even though Stern ran another batch of Premiums in November/December. I still believe the overall market for Batman is small (primarily demographics and pricing). Maybe we see some sales when the code reaches 1.00, but people I know with the game have no interest in selling at this point and I don't see the addition of whatever comes between .87 and 1.00+ changing that. The game is already deeper than any recent Stern game and Lyman may be setting the stage for the honor of having the best Stern game play ever.
This game is the poster child for "code sells games". The code came too late in this case to take advantage of the initial hype by Stern, but Stern seemingly keeping the promise George made that the game wouldn't be done until it was the game he and Lyman envisioned will certainly help Stern with sales of future boutique titles. (Of course there is the issue of whether Stern really understands that code sells games, but that's for another thread ...)
If anyone wants to sell their game now, it should sell quickly. I'm going to continue to smile and say "No, sorry" when people ask to buy mine and happily help them find a NIB Premium.
A few of us had faith and knew this was going to be a great pin when finished. I got tired of arguing and just decided to say nothing and let things happen. Admittedly, those initial releases didn't come as quick as I was told they would be, but a later decision was made to hold the incremental releases to get to something more substantial, and I am fine with that decision. Smaller releases would just have fueled more of the fire surrounding whether or not Lyman had moved on to the next game and was not devoting any time to Batman. I think the current progress has more than shown he was deep into this code all the time, and those making assumptions were wrong. Regardless, I am just glad to be to this point and it is like a new game with every release.
1 week later
Quoted from 82Trooper:So while playing today, this came down the right side flipper lane.....any idea where it lives?
It is a bulb behind the slings. The ball often knocks the top off of those and after gluing them on a few times, I just left them off for good. Does no harm.
Edit: I see others answered as well. I hadn't read all of the posts yet so sorry for the repeat
Quoted from Concretehardt:I got some very serious health news yesterday not sure what is in store for me now but I may be selling all my games soon including BMLE. My wife wants me to keep them because they make me happy but if this is worse case for me then I don’t want to leave her with pinball machines to deal with. In the mean time I could use all the prayers I can get, I’m going to see a neurosurgeon on Monday.
I am walking around in a daze thinking of my wife and young daughter, cherish every moment guys.
After losing many family members early in life, I can understand, and my prayers go out to you. I know it is a well overused phrase, but if there is anything we as a group can do, all you need to do is ask.
2 weeks later
8 months later
Quoted from Mojosan:Here's your chance to pick up a nice "Batmobile Parachute Pickup Service" van...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-gmc-handivan-chassis-g1001pf4113a/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2018-11-12
[quoted image]
Ultimate accessory.................
2 months later
Quoted from AUKraut:You may be right, as I'm just going by what Pinballife's website said. I hope Franchi has some goodies at good price at TPF, I'll be there as well.....
I sent a message to CF the other day and he indicated he will have prints and materials there to purchase!
1 month later
Quoted from iloveplywood:I think Stern's website has been mixed up for a while, looking through market place archive and all the premiums I saw had batman on one side and robin on the other. Once again, I actually have a premium and that's how the decal is. It's bloody confusing because of Stern's website and distributor pictures (probably from website).
Those pics were taken before production started, and Stern changed the stickers early on. The LE has Batgirl
1 month later
Quoted from imagamejunky:I completely agree with you guys that the atomic pile mod is fantastic looking. I also feel that the stock Stern one looks like shit. Same with the dog toy phone. Same with the flat cats. It's such a beautiful game and those cats look so cheesy and cheap. For the amount of money we spend on these pins they should all come with good quality 3d plastics instead of those flat plastic chintzy looking things.
People always complain about the price of jjp pins but at least with those you get quality molded toys that look good from the factory
And to your point, if Stern added some stunning Atomic Pile Mod to the game and charged for it, everyone's heads would explode. But those same folks will run out and spend $200 for the mod and add it with no second thought. And yes, I know it has to do with profit margins and how much Stern makes per machine, but they obviously have a certain percentage they have to make, and adding more costs more.
2 weeks later
Quoted from DeathHimself:After what date period would be considered the later runs? I do know the Munster's Prem are built extremely well and do have that style corner bracket in the machines.
The latest BM66 runs not only have the WMS style brackets, but they also have small metal cabinet corner braces at the top of each front corner (Not sure about the back). I will try and snap a pic tonight, but they should hold very nicely. Got to give them credit where due....they are listening.
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