Perhaps. But, at least with BM66, we have a chicken and the egg situation. People aren't buying Batman primarily because of the code situation (some is price). There aren't that many more blind faith customers.

The potential buyers of Batman are voting with their wallets - they don't want to get left holding the bag on a game they see as one that isn't going to be finished. Why in the world would anyone buy a NIB BM66 now without knowing what they are going to get with game play? (It was somewhat different when there were still LEs to be had).

Delaying a subsequent game announcement doesn't help sell existing inventory one bit if demand is depressed because of incomplete code. Though if SW is selling well, there shouldn't be that many games sitting in dealer inventory.

From comments on Stern's Facebook page (not mine). The release number was not specified and it's unclear from Stern comments if the code to be released "soon" will be the same level as shown at Expo or have more (though it seems from one of the comments from Stern Pinball is that it is the same "teaser" code on the machines at Expo).
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Analysis of new code from one big game yesterday. New callouts/animations, gadget target bank behavior, villain cliffhangers, ect. Looking forward to next update.

Hello folks! I played Batman 66 yesterday at the booth and put up a 3 billion score. For those who aren't at the show, here's some things I noticed about the new code...

* New callouts from Batman, Robin, the announcer and various villains. Noticed some during ball locks, collecting gadgets, playing/completing villain modes, start of multiball, when a new player is up and entering high score initials. Maybe more I didn't hear.

* Different musical sting when you lock ball 2 in the turntable.

* "To the Batpoles" mode tweaked. Dunno if it's still exclusive to Joker and Riddler, but if your first shot in those modes in the scoop, the left loop lights; shooting it now doubles all scoring in the mode. Also added new instructions in the display.

* Minor villain modes still not implemented.

* Different Bat-Vehicles race across the display during combos.

* Gadget targets occasionally all flash at once after completing them? Hit one and they all shut off again. I saw clips of Batman's utility belt and heard speech from Alfred.

* New villain cliffhangers. After making enough shots, the super jackpot lights. Hit it and you're given a choice of collecting your points (including with any multipliers) or continuing to another, deeper "stage" of the mode. Each stage has different animations, speech and rules it seems. At one point I think I had to spin the Batmobile to make the Joker dizzy/sneeze?

* Didn't focus on the TV, but during attract mode I noticed images of the villains pop up (i.e. it's not just the Batman logo).

This game has potential in its theme integration and deserves all the polish it can get. In fact, ALL games do. That said, hoping for an awesome final product from the genius that is Lyman Sheats.

Thanks for that post jfh. Sounds like some nice enhancements and little touches of detail in the Expo code, hopefully the code that George said would drop this up coming week is a little more advanced than the Expo code.

From the next drop moving forward I don't mind all that much how long Lyman needs to complete his vision and make this game awesome as long as you "communicate" what is happening Stern!

I was updating my post as you typed yours. Reading the comments posted by Stern it appears that the code released to us will be the same level shown at Expo, though that is certainly not clear and is muddied further by the curious explanation of why the code wasn't released to those not at Expo.

Absolutely!

Thanks for posting, it's good to finally hear someone that has actually played it. Fingers crossed code drops this week and some more updates occur in the not too distant future.

Thanks for sharing, that is great news.

wow. Gary stern said Star Wars is there best selling title of all time.

If you do decide to use/buy the Hot Wheels 1/50 Batmobile and Batboat/trailer combo in your shooter lane, make sure you buy the Batmobile with included trailer hitch. They only did a very small run of those with the trailer hitch. I got the Eaglemoss 1/43 Jokermobile. It's super cool but unfortunately its too big to include on the plate with the Batmobile. By the way can anyone confirm if they added any Penguin callouts or sound bytes?

Most of the new call outs seemed to be of Adam and Burt saying the basic pinball stuff like "ball 1 locked", "player 1 is up", "holy additional chromium sphere". As I battled villians there were more video clips and speech for them that seemed new. Cant remember any specific ones from P. N. Guin.

I alos want to comment on a conversation myself and a couple other pinsiders had with Lyman at the show regarding the expo code.

First and foremost I let him know that what he has done so far (in my opinion) is the best theme integration so of any Stern machine Ive owned. Things like the bat-turn, cliff hanger continues, answering the bat phone, use of bat gadgets, use of the narrator sound alike, etc all give you that immersive theme integration that just isnt on many other games.

The theme integration aspect of the code development takes more time than the basic standard pinball rules. For example, when you battle a villain he wants to use appropriate clips from an episode with that villain that shows progression towards beating the villian as you progress through the mode. If you battle the same villain again he wants to use audio and video clips from a different episode so its not the same thing everytime.

He could have taken a quicker lazier approach of just showing generic head shots with a pow or bam over them as you do the mode but he wanted to be more detailed than that with his choice of video and audio. As I played the expo games more I noticed more of these types of changes.

I would rather he took his time thinking through how to best integrate the game rules with theme and have the modes be interesting and unique rather than just generic "chopping wood" type of feel that we have seen in other games. He said its trivial to program basic standard rules and point values for things but he doeant want to do just that for the game. He really wants each mode to have its own feel and draw you into the zany 60's world of Batman. The code thats in there so far does just that.

I asked.him about the continue mode after defeating Joker as I wasnt sure what was happeneing there. When I chose to continue Joker after intially defeating him all 6 gadget targets flashed in unison. Lyman said this was a hurry up mode he put there but the text and speech describing it as such needed to be put in still. After you start the hurry up by hitting one of the gadgets you fight he Joker again via gas bombs from your utility belt. Each shot I made showed of clip of him getting gassed. I later read someone mentioned that they could make the joker dizzy by shooting the spinner but I didnt see that part. So maybe you have a choice as to how to fight Joker when you continue his episode?

Im hoping the reason they didnt release the expo teaser code is that the code we get in the week or so has even more content and polish.

We didnt pressure Lyman for specific dates for completetion of anything because its impossible to accurately predict issues you dont know about until you see them. However he is painfully aware of everyones high expections and is doing everything he can to meet them. We will have a release in a week or so with others coming soon afterwards.

I was a little down on the code after the Stern talk at the start of expo but myself and the 2 other pinsiders all felt better about it after hearing lymans enthusiasm for the game first hand. It would be great if they had Lyman address it at the Stern talk himself so everyone else could hear it from him for themselves. Maybe a facebook chat "talk to the coder" or something similar could be tried" He really wants to make Batman66 a special game and if it takes longer than usual to do it than so be it. I think it will be worth the wait and am looking forward to upcoming code drops.

Bat calendar says great code is coming soon!

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thanks for the info. Good to get some actual information about the game code. Cool that Lyman was there in person and could talk about it a bit with you.

Everything we've been told, over and over, is that he'll finish it on his terms. It's been longer than any of us wanted, but I still feel like we'll get there.

Were you able to get any tidbits on his path forward beyond fighting the big 4 villains? For instance, inclusion of Batgirl, Batuzi, or anything similar to Bat Turn?

Would have been interesting if you ask him if bm was the only game he is working on

Doc, great information - thanks. It's great to hear about this from someone we trust in this forum. I agree totally with your comments on theme integration. If Lyman is allowed to complete the game, it will be fantastic.

But that makes me even more disappointed in Stern management. Why in the world would they not have wanted to have Lyman share that passion during their session? What a difference that could have made.

I hope Stern at least produces a video that allows Lyman to talk to us about the game, what he's done and why and share both his vision and enthusiasm. That would go a long way to repairing the goodwill about Batman that Stern seems determined to fritter away.

What happened to the minor villains? Did they decide to change their approach on these guys?

This has been the problem with Sterns upper management/decision makers for some time, I don't think they are intentionally being difficult with information, I believe and it's becoming more evident and apparent imo that they are just completely and utterly out of touch with the modern market and how to deal with the home collector side of the market.

Unless Lyman doesnt like talking in front of a crowd and simply didn't want to there is no reason to not of had him at Expo answering questions on BM66 and giving some insight into his plans for the code, literally Lyman saying what doc just posted would have turned Sterns seminar 180 degrees and wouldn't have got them so much backlash and critism.

I just don't think Stern have a clue anymore Gary's presentation all but confirmed that, a couple of friends of mine said it was like the ramblings of a great mind gone mad.

There was a huge lack of preparation for that seminar. Gary should have had his say, but not run the seminar.

A separate "fireside" chat with Lyman and Gomez on b66 would have been cool as a way to re-launch the game. Talking about code, design, what they were thinking, issues they've had etc etc. And they really should have taken the time to re-launch it, but obviously code was not ready. Maybe next expo??

BTW, what happened with Franchi's seminar?

Good point on the minor villains. I wonder what Lyman's vision is for implementing them, or maybe they're not going that route now with so much fuss and energy on the 4 major villains.

I was one of the other guys there listening to Lyman and can confirm everything Docquest said. (it was nice meeting you by the way )
It's so great to hear the passion in Lyman's voice when he talks about this game.
I have no idea how long it will take him to finish but I also have no doubt it will get finished and be amazing when it is.

Any other observations about the new code or conversation with Lyman you can share?

Docquest summed it up well.

Something I thought was very interesting is that he said AFM took him 7 months to code.

Think about the difference between those rules and what he is trying to give us with BM66. I know computing power has increased exponentially since then but it is still an enormous amount of work.

Lyman knows everyone is anxious for new code but he wants to make it great. There are a handful of us here that have spoken to him in person about it last expo and this one, his commitment to getting it right has not changed and Stern is giving him the time to do it his way.

We all know he was pushed to get the game playable last year so they could meet the 50th anniversary of Batman and the 30th anniversary of of Stern which I understand. The build date on my BM66 is 12/29/16, talk about cutting it close.....
There was no talk of Stern currently pushing him to just get something out the door on the updates which is good for all of us.

I wish everyone that is concerned about code was able to talk to him in person (I know this is not possible).
I know you would walk away saying what the rest of us that were fortune enough to do this are saying with complete conviction, IN LYMAN WE TRUST!

Franchi seminar was interesting. Stern hired him to design all the bat gadgets for the LE plaques (which may or may not be put into the code as well). Since he had already had a ton of Batman 66 art he did previously je quickly made a Super LE back glass in 1 day. They loved it, and asjed him to do a LE backglass.

Then they gave him 2 weeks(Stern loves 2 weeks) to create the 3 cabinets and the 3rd backglass and promo flyers etc. Somebody else laid out the playfield using his artwork.

One of his side stories stated That Commissioner Gordon (Neil Hamilton) estate never agrees to the use of his image on anything! How Stern was able to get the licenses tito use him baffled Franchi and thought this machine will go down in History.

I'd like to see minor villains stackable with main villains and each other - the more villains you take on at once you should get a bonus or multiplier for that.

Also give a reason to go after multiple minor villains by offering specific changes to gameplay based on their characters attributes. Set the main mode structure up similar to how the old main villain modes played out, but with added perks while they are the minor villain/s running.

Mr Freeze - all timers are frozen while he's the active minor villian being caught, but as a negative effect add a balls are also frozen.

Bookworm - sequenced series of shots that need completing. Has it ever been done in a pin where you have to purposefully cradle a ball and watch a series of shots you then have to repeat by making those shot?

Egghead - I have no idea LOL, maybe have lit shots flash up then go out hiding what shots are lit, hitting the "e" stand up shows lit shots again but only for a set amount of seconds before going out again. As you complete shots it forces you to keep track of what shots you have made and what shots you have left. I would also "eggspect" as many egg puns as possible in this mode!

Shame - as he was the stupid/less intelligent one of Batmans 66 rogue gallery have lit shots values randomised (maybe let the player know via the RGB inserts or maybe leave it totally random) one lite shot could be 250,000, another 5,000, would add some frustration and laughs in multiplayer.

Mad hatter, something classic and simple but with a campy twist, a roving shot mode, shots could move side to side at different rates, also 2 shots moving from the orbits and meeting in the middle and going back out.

King tut....... hmmmm? Multipliers or hmmm..... he's big so.... big points mode

Thanks very much for the info Doc. You've restored my faith. Why Stern didn't have Lyman speak about BM66 code etc at Expo is beyond me. I'm sure more people would've preferred to hear him than Gary's "beer and barcades" babble. I guess patience will be key for us BM66 owners.

Being new to this, I'm of a mindset that I would rather be playing a 0.75 BM66 LE than sitting around, typing on my computer all day long, complaining about code not being quick enough, being lied to, etc. I didn't realize that there were so many "children" playing pinball these days. I have better things to do, than to complain about something I can do nothing about at this point, like play pinball! And if you are so unhappy with Stern, than don't ever buy another one of their machines. But, for people that are new to this hobby and who want to learn about mods, gameplay, have questions, etc., it's very disappointing when most of the posts are about how disappointed you are with code and Stern. Most posts are nothing more than pure speculation about Stern's intentions, is Lyman doing this or that, who's working on what....man, it gets old. I understand the importance of code and I'm sure a lot of you are going to say then don't read this thread. But, I have a better suggestion....why don't all of the complainers and speculators start a new topic/thread on BM66 code and how broken your little hearts are. Then, we can get back to talking about what really matters and what we can actually do something about....playing a really cool game, that in my opinion, is one of the best that will only get better with time. Patience really is a virtue.

Pretty much sums it up. Thanks for stopping by and have a nice night.

Sooo.. your complaining about the complainers.

Patience is a virtue. Gee thanks for that nugget of wisdom

This has been a great thread. Pay attention

So, ive finished 0.75 code numerous times and its starting to get boring. In fact that was about 5 months ago. Ive also moded the game more than I want to. What do you want to talk about?

Hooray Matt!!!...thanks for the update.....you and docquest provided great info....sorry I couldn’t make it this year, but shall make up for lost time at the next event!!!.....this will be a great game....

Well I was the third man in this chat with Lyman . Doc and Matt nailed the points made above but I want to comment that I also walked away highly encouraged for the games progression and feeling positive about the commitment. Lyman's enthusiasm comes across as you speak about the game and the show. There are ideas for a lot of things from the show and seasons but it needs to fit into the game. I agree with Doc and Matt that he wants to make the game something that Batman fans are proud to own. He is NOT taking an easy out and unfortunately that means more time. I have faith that he is getting BM66 done when he is satisfied and then we will be as well.

I also wanted to say that if Lyman is reading this thread to keep up the good work and the passion for the game is appreciated!

Same here. After 9 months I'm exhausted of chopping wood capturing the same four villains. I used to enjoy playing it, but there's not near enough variety to keep it fresh at present. I've also spent more than I should have on mods, so I'm in a holding pattern throwing more money at it. I'm letting it rest for the time being, and will revisit it after the next code update. The last thing I want to do is give up on it and sell it for a huge loss.

I’m encouraged by this...tremendously. It is great to know that he won’t stop until he’s satisfied.

Great input guys. Never a doubt with Lyman.

To me TWD is the best pin I've ever played and its because of the Borg/Lyman combo.

This game will be great eventually, we all know that. Gonna shelve it and play the others for awhile too.

I wish I could be as forgiving as everyone else here. Call me from Missouri on this one, but I'll buy into all of this passion talk when it translates into game improvements and "fun." I'll show some patience once I see an update that makes the game more interesting and completes some of the things that are so glaringly missing. I really don't see how an option for more points and longer time to capture the same 4 villains is going to refresh the game very much.

Still, I'm the fool for pre-ordering this game, so there's nothing I can do at this point except try not get burned again.

Agreed...probably best just to wait for the bomb drop rather than get little teases that still fall short.....retract my previous comment.....AFMRLE calling.....

Please don't take this as me trying to be a dick but if it causes you that much heartache, why not sell the game?
Nobody likes to lose money and I understand you have modded it but wouldn't it be better to take your lumps, free up a space in the game room, take the money and buy a different game?
Again, not trying to be mean, just genuinely curious as to why you would put yourself through this?

I don't see a lot of forgiveness here.

As for being a fool for pre-ordering the game - no. You believed what Stern said publicly and were willing to give them the benefit, probably because of Lyman's track record.

You ARE a fool if Stern doesn't deliver on Batman AND you buy another new game with alpha (or even beta) code at launch.

I got the impression that the Bs are within the scope of ideas for the game and modes for the seasons. Batgirl was season 3 so that "could" occur in the game. Batusi is in the ideas bucket. I was personally happy to hear mention of a certain surf event. Again, these are ideas and nothing is a gaurantee! I trust Lyman to make the right decisions and he seems to want the stuff that we love represented in the game. Again, these are just my impressions.

Do you have any idea how much of a bath we would take selling our BM66 pins right now? I don't either, but given the notoriety of this game I suspect that it's probably in the $2K+ range and now is probably the worse possible time to sell given this weekend's Expo debacle. I paid $10K for an LE, added the topper Batlight and quite a few other mods so I suspect I'm very, very upside down right now. It's my fault, but I still charge Stern with a huge fumble on this one.

I'm not even considering selling my LE, but I agree this would be the worst possible time to do so.
Whatever the current value is, it should only go up from here, assuming we eventually see code updates.

My collection is large enough to support an unfinished game, especially one with a grail theme for me. I may end up disappointed that it won't meet lofty expectations, but I won't sell the game on that basis alone. (I also have NGG - another famous unfinished game - and that isn't going anywhere either).

Imagine if Lyman is allowed to complete the game he wants to see (and perhaps told it will only happen this one time) and we are blown away with a deep and brilliant theme integration. On a game that is a truly limited edition. Do you really want to be the guy kicking yourself for having dumped it when things looked the bleakest?

I think his intended use of the minor villains hasn't changed. If you listen to the Jack Danger stream when they first showed Batman66 gameplay you can hear lyman mention using the minor villains to affect game features. Unfortunately there were other people talking so it was hard to hear everything he was saying.

Yesterday when we talked, he repeated what he said in the fead flip stream about selecting Mr Freeze would "freeze" your timers for the rest of the ball. He starts talking about the minor villains around the 41:20 mark.

You may be surprised.
I heard more than one person at Expo say they wish they could get an LE and there are none for sale in the market right now.
I agree, bad time to sell with new code coming but a page or so ago I thought I remembered you posting that you felt physically ill about it. This is a hobby and should be fun, not make you sick.
Hopefully later this week the expo code will be released and we can get one step closer the the game we all want to play.

I never add mods expecting to increase my pins value. I do it because its fun and gives me a creative outlet.

Plenty of other Stern LE's and others (Hobbit) have lower resale value than they were NIB so thi isnt a Batman thing. Not every game will appreciate in value less than 1 year after it comes out.

Speaking of resale, I noticed the Batman66 SLE for sale in the free play room was gone fairly quickly. Anyone know what it sold for?

Oh, so when I'm a "seasoned" veteran like you, I can sit around and second guess a multi-million dollar company and whine about things you can't control? If you can do better, code it yourself. Let me know as soon as it's finished so I can upload it. If you think you're intimidating, you're not and just because you've been doing this for a while, doesn't make you any better than anyone else. I'm going to go play with my new $10,000 machine. What was your first one Thunderdud...Space Invaders or Baywatch?

Love to know myself but I will say that game had some minor issues. Not sure but it seemed like the spinner switch was stuck on and as long as you sat there you kept getting points. Add to that the rotating playfield had some issues and the ball lock did not work and the lock bar pin striping was starting to slide. Nothing major but that is the cost of Expo testing. I was amazing someone would bring a game of that prominence and $$$$$ to an Expo to be beat to death. Hope the new owner can polish it up and give her a new home. Great to meet the Doc and several others at Expo this year. Put a face and Real name to the characters on this forum. lol

You're right about the physically ill part, kind of like the sick feeling you get when you find out a close friend has deceived you, or breaking up with someone. This weekend was a double whammy for me. I've backed and passionately defended Stern for years and easily spent $50K on their NIB games in the past 5 years, but this weekend brought a long overdue epiphany to me that I've been backing the wrong company. Worse is my realization that there just isn't enough progress or time for my grail theme BM66 to ever be completed like I hoped it would. I'm sure Lyman can make it better with probably one more intermediate-term update after whatever is in the hopper for next week, but reality dictates that he very soon must jump on Elvira(?) full time, and then I suspect that we'll go over a year before they "make another pass" on BM66 as they look back at it from their rear view mirror. After all, the assembly line must keep rolling and future big sellers like GotG, Iron Maiden, Beatles, Munsters, or whatever will rule the day. A year or so from now BM66 will settle about one rung above WWE in sales and be yesterday's news. I own plenty of other games to play and there are many non-Stern choices for great new games which I'll pursue, but I'm still very disappointed in what's happened this year with Stern and especially BM66. I know it's just business, but it feels personal right now.

When you're ready to contribute more meaningful and more educated posts rather than insulting members and boasting about your $10,000 toy let us know. We'll be here.

And that's the downside of the passion most of us have for this hobby.

I couldn't have said it better. Right now, I own 2 pinball machines that I can't/don't play. Batman 66, because I played the heck out of it so far, all the way up to 0.75 code, and don't want to ruin the magic of the theme by overplaying the same couple things over and over. And Star Wars because the latest code update literally breaks the machine (which I installed almost immediately on its release). So I can't play it until they release an update to fix it. As a Stern fan, it was a very souring weekend.

It might not have been so bad if JJP didn't show off their newest game. But seeing a company release a new game that they are going to stand behind and support with loads of options, modes, etc kind of made it even more aggravating, and I even started doing the math in my head ("if I sold my Batman SLE and lost $3000 on it, I could still afford the Pirates game and have some money left over...").

Eventually I decided not to make a move and wait it out, but like the previous person said, we're running out of time where Lyman is working exclusively on the Batman 66 machine before he has to move on.