Certainly some interesting info coming out. I think the development of this game is all over the place. If you look at the rumour mill a while back, there was a lot of talk about TDK being the next VE. This was before the Batman 66 license would of been up for grabs. Then all of a sudden STERN is doing a joint collaboration with Ka-pow pinball. Joe & Eugene from Ka-pow have a great history in game design across pinball and video games. They also have the funds to acquire a license such as Batman 66. It much more likely they approached STERN with the license and probably a game layout, and STERN then decided to kill two birds with one stone by switching the TDK VE to a whole new game. The fact they mention the Crane and New Interactive Toys, plus Gomez & Lyman means that the TDK bones are going to be in this game.

As far as pricing goes, Im not surprised, this is similar to Whizbang collaboration with STERN, it not a pure STERN designed and produced game, so the revenue pie has to sliced up even more. This does not spell the end of Pro models for STERN, you will see future games with Pro models at the MSRP $5495, however there might not be as heavy discounting from distributors as in the past, hence why STERN has been so strict on distributors not posting prices. With the prices of LCD's now days, I think the actual BOM for an LCD Stern would be the same or cheaper then a Dot-matrix display. There might be a little more programming costs but nothing over the top.

It would seem that Gary is finally letting go of his fixation with operators and starting to really focus on the home collector market. Batman 66 - Whoa Nellie - Spiderman Ve all seem squarely positioned towards the home collector rather then operators. Maybe the new norm for STERN will be releasing 2 core games a year plus 2-3 VE/Collaboration games. I also get the feeling that maybe with the new Spike & Spike 2 system, designing and manufacturing games is getting easier for STERN allowing for more boutique limited runs. This could be a great thing for the industry, as others have mentioned there are a lot of themes that might not have the appeal to sell thousands of units or attract operators, that would still sell 500+ tables to collectors at premium price points.

spooky needs to bring in some outside design talent. Charlie and Ben are great guys, but you need someone with talent that's designed dozens of games to come up with a table that really captures the market. Spooky has been relying on the limited Le feature of their tables rather then the providing a blow away game experience. Stern has the talent and the commitment to providing a great gaming experience. JJP could certainly mix things up, with Pats game particularly if it standard body, which I belive it is. I have a feeling this will deliver the classic Bally/Williams vibe updated to 2016.

Anyone got any thoughts on "LCD replacing the dot matrix display" which way do you think Stern will go? Dutch pinball with sega size display, showing a more traditional pixilated image? JJP with full LCD? Personally my pick is for a Dutch style display, might be a bit old school but I think it more of an evolution of the traditional dot matrix, were as JJP display is a totally different direction. Might need to start a poll on this one.

The way George was talking on Coast to Coast, I would say they have a working whitewood and the game is quite away along. He was discussing combo shots, and more importantly the way hits to the crane caused bounces into other shots. I don't think these sort of details could of come if they weren't playing a fully populated whitewood. For all Sterns issues, there is no doubt they are a very well oiled machine, when it comes to putting together a game. Mostly because they have such experienced a professional employees, with a real passion for what they do. George didn't try to hide away when Nate asked if there would be a flippable Batman at expo, rather he seemed really confident in his reply, only saying unless the game still needed polish. The code might be a little lacking, but there will be a game to play at expo is my bet. Stripped down code is not a major for expo, as most players are only going to get to spend 10 minutes or so with the game in total, as the line will be out the door. As long as the sound, animation, and art are fully realised, and a detailed ruleset described, I think most people will cut Stern a break if the actual implemented rules are not quite there for expo.

On a side note, in Australia we have Pinfest 24-25 September which is probably the biggest pinball comp/show in OZ. They announced about 6 weeks ago that there would be "big news from Stern" which no doubt will be some sort of reveal of Batman 66. Not saying there will be a machine at the show as this won't happen, but would not be surprised to see some sort of presentation with photos etc..

The pricing reflects what the market is willing to pay, however it is still a relatively small market, in terms of volume. Stern is not turning into a boutique high end producer anytime soon. Regardless of how big the margin is on a $15k or even 10k pin the overall profit pales compared to the volume they sell with their 5k pros. Stern has taken this root with batman 66 because let's be completely honest here, and maybe I'm reading this wrong as an Australian buyer, but seriously batman 66 does not have anywhere near the fan base or relevance of gb or GOT or even TWD. They have created a super high priced limited run product because that is what the license ditacted. There is no pro model because frankly there is such a limited demand for this title that there is no market for a pro. Operators would not be lining up to purchase pro batman 66 nor would the majority of HUO buyers. They know they would only sell a thousand or so machine regardless, so why not milk every cent they can from those thousand buyers. You may see this happen in the future with license that have dedicated but niche fan bases. If this is the case then that is great for the hobby and for people that want to own their grail theme. However when it comes to massive themes with proper appeal I.e Starwars there is no way Stern is going to loose 3-4-5 thousand pro sales by over pricing. The income and profit they make on those pro sales still far outstrips the money they make on Le or even super Le machines by factors of 100s. Do you really think stern could survive if they only sold 500 or so of every new title? Hell no, not even at 10k a machine. This is a big company with major overheads that has just moved into a new larger manufacturing facility, they are not going botique anytime soon.

The deal is that stern has probably been under pricing there main product line being Pro models for a couple of years, as they where still in survival mode mentality. So yes the new pro price will probably be 6k going forward, however you should get a lot more for your money as far as feature and toys go I.e GB. The high priced Le's are just Stern taking money thats sitting on the table. All the whinging regarding these systems come from people who see these as collectible investments or money making oppertunities. For fuck sake do you think guys that pay 15K or even 10k for a pinball machine are buying them as an investment or give a shit about the resale value. This is disposable money they have and choose to spend it on something they percive will give them enjoyment and fun. Most of the people bitching about not being able to own a 10k Stern are in fact liers, almost everyone that makes this comment would have multiple pinball machines in their collection with a combined worth well in excess of 10k. So yes you could afford a 10k or even a 15k machine but it would mean selling other tables which is not something you are prepared to do , hey me neither, so who give a shit. However all of us have a grail theme that might have a very narrow limited appeal, that means enough for us to trade 2-3 of our collection to own. That what batman 66 is.

I had to laugh listening to the latest podcast from he who must not be named today bitching and crying about the batman 66 pricing, the guy makes fun and ridiculed everyone else on this site that has a complaint then spends 30minutes crying over super Le prices. You know why, because he realised hey I can't make money on buying a 10k limited edition batman like He originally key planed. He also goes onto say that he would jump at the oppertunity to buy a batman Super Le if he hot the chance. The only reason? Because he know he could flip it for more money down the line, for fuck sake it makes me shake my head, this hobby is meant to be about having fun and playing games guys. Guess what PINBALL is not a designed to make you money, STERN is not in the business of making you money. If you spend 10k or 5k on a new toy for your home, be prepared to loose 20 or 30% of the value when you come to sell in the future and yes be happy it is only such a small percentage. The whole market has been totally skewed in the last 5 years when people think that they should be able to buy a pinball machine and then sell it for more then they paid a year or two later. This is not normal in ANY hobby and you know what it just destroys the whole fundementals of the hobby for everyone. Yes a game from 20 years ago might be worth more now then it was nib but that's 20 years of accumulated worth and rarity. Someone trying to sell their orginal Spider-Man or POTC or SPP for thousands more then they paid less then 5 years ago and thinks this is the norm, is delusional if they belive this will be the status quo forever. Bally williams went under that is why classic tables are worth more now then 20 years ago, it's like when an artist dies and his works sky rocket. Buying a new stern is not the same deal.

My advice is don't worry so much 90% of the people having a go in this thread really couldn't give two shits about batman 66 as a theme regardless of the price point and the other 10% either have enough money not to worry or are die hard fans. Really every ones a winner baby that's the truth.

The pro model is no longer going to be in the mid 4's this is not a price point that makes sense for Stern, it is not because they are being greedy, when pins where in this price range a few years back STern was on life support. That is what companies do in really tough times they survive, however if 4.5k was stern surviving then hell 6k is not so bad Hardly what I call price gouging. Sucks for us the buyer but that is just life you can't afford everything you want.

I did say that as an Australia, I don't see the appeal of batman 66 as a theme, I think you will find this to be the case with many overseas markets. Not knocking it at all but, it not really Batman as many people know the character. I stand by my comment, if there was a batman 66 pro it would sell maybe 25% of GB or other big title themes such as Starwars.

Homepin can really put pressure on especially once they have their core component manufacturing completed. I would say they would be aiming for less then 5000usd maybe even as low as 4000usd. However I still think that for companies such as homepin or even spooky to really take it to stern they need to have a strong design and programming team in place. I belive homepin will be able to get the manufacturing side right, they are already shipping multiple containers of cocktail tables a month, so they know how to get product out the door. However one of the main reason stern is so popular is they have great designs in Borg,Ritchie , Treaudu plus some amazing programmers such as Lyman. Just like with the golden days of Williams/Bally, the really key is game design and rules. If these companies only try and develop games with their own in house design teams, then unless they have the next undiscovered Lawlor or Ritchie working for them, there is a good chance the games won't threaten Stern. We hear a lot of people say "making pinball is hard" maybe they should also say "designing and coding pinball is hard".

I will hold judgement on Sterns pricing untill their next release, it's still to early to determine if the Batman 66 is just a one off hike or if future Pro/premium/Le will now be all priced $2k more. If the latter is true the biggest losers are the playing public and operators. Pinball is not exactly the best option for operators now against cheaper, higher earning claw machines and the like. Add a couple of grand to the outlay and I can see even the most pin friendly operators ditching stern and either dropping pinball altogether or going back to b/w titles, which will take similar earnings at far lower capital investment. If this turns out to be the case then it is a really shame for the hobby as a whole. Location pinball is still a lot more fun then having your own arcade at home. I have 5 games in the collection and still go out to our local arcade a couple of times a week, because it's a much more social and engaging way to enjoy pinball.

That being said I wouldn't be surprised if this pricing is the new norm for stern. With the US dollar being so strong lately, many collectors around the world have already being paying north of 12k for nib Le sterns. My guess would be that the American market is easily bigger enough to handle 250 or more 10k limited edition sterns if the theme and game are appealing. So by selling at 8k Stern has been leaving money on the table. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Stern had priced GB le at close to 15k they would of still probably sold out. The most price sensitive market is going to be the premiums and pro buyers, Stern will need to tread a lot more carefully with future titles to avoid loosing volume in this market. I think premium sales in particular have been a good high margin source of income for stern over the last couple of years, so maybe the batman pricing is a one off and they will rein in the prices on future releases.

I think the non-refund has more to do with the meet and greet. Stern only wants actual buyers/owners at the meet and greet. It like they really trying to create a special club of limited owners. It may also be an effort to try eliminate the speculators and flippers, at 10k for an le the machine would have to be spectacular to have any upwards price movement, so I think the price alone would of eliminated the flipper market. To me it's kinda of a BS move making deposits non-refundable before the reveal, but as many have already said, this machine is a unique release and does not necessarily reflect Sterns policy moving forward. I think the quicker they get to releasing their next table the better, so everyone can stop speculating on future pricing and purchase policy and see if things return back to "normal".