Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Why not give one of those games a shot before going the hookers n blow route?
That's a tough trade off, I have given up a few pins over the years in that regard.
I don't see what the big deal is, I have zero interest in Batman 66 but it seems its a grail pin for a lot of u guys and I understand the excitement, pay in full for it before any pics of video and gameplay, why not? I did it with Alien, for me best theme to date, If Sterns next pin was Motorhead or Slayer, yep I'm paid in full for an LE before any reveal and there's so many more that will never happen for me but if they did I would go in blind, its a toy, its suppose to be fun, unless its a non-refundable deposit then who gives a shit? Ghosting and delays etc. aside this pin is sold out already for those of us that must have it, I get it and I say good for you, happy ur getting something that really ur passionate about.
Quoted from MikeS:
I think that's fine as long as you are fine with taking the risks involved and living with the consequences. Code is the biggest issue. What kind of incentive will Stern have to devote code resources to a game that's already sold out. I'm sure it will be like every other game Stern releases.... Collector's will be in a frenzy to buy it, they will rank the game #1 on the Pinside top 100 list, and then 3-6 months later all you will hear is complaints about how the code isn't finished and the game is collecting dust in their gameroom. Why not make Stern work for your sale by forcing them put out a quality product from day one with great code. Now is the time to buy games like Met and TWD that already have great finished code and reward Stern for a job well done. Let sales suffer on the new games until code is complete and give Stern some incentive to actually devote the code resources
I agree, I don't buy new Sterns anymore, I'll wait a year at least for code to mature, gives me time to play it and make a sound decision, but if it was a theme that I knew I wanted the best possible example then yeah I'm going in blind as a bat, seems the issue is other people hating the fact that either some folks have the money to do this and its keeping prices high well I get that too and if I had a real problem I just wouldn't buy new games or leave the hobby. Makes no difference to me and you can't fault Stern for charging these prices and getting the sales, how could you?
Quoted from Mr68:
You're paid in full on Alien? Heighway Pinball's Alien??
What r u saying that this isn't going to happen or the game will be crap? If it doesn't and I get screwed that's my business, I find that and a poor playing pin to be extremely unlikely. Although I had high hopes for TH and man was that a let down for me anyway, so you never know. Its a lot like video games this pinball thing in terms of normally I wait a year for a game to drop in price and have the bugs worked out etc. yet there are some that I must have right away like GTA and will actually spend the money on it, its games and toys its supposed to be fun.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Why is it so hard to understand that if Stern has zero trouble selling 30 $15,000 games and 250 $10,000 games, and a shitload of $8,500 games, they aren't gonna see any need to roll back their prices, and in fact, it would be silly to do so?
I think that concern is understandable to most understanding folks.
Yeah but this is a big deal in terms of theme for a lot of people (not me), guys who grew up with the show, more modern geeks and so on, I doubt Aerosmith SLE/LE/Pre would sell out at these prices. but this could be the new norm, Stern hasn't specified that, I do know that those prices are closer to what we have pay up here and it has affected sales, unless Stern keeps pumping out themes that will cause people to suck it up I just don't see it lasting.
They also never had a SLE or a 30th ann pin that the pin geeks salivate for, this show is obviously important to a lot of folk out there, they may not decrease the price and this is the new norm for pricing, I'm just saying if Aerosmith was released under these pricing conditions where you get to meet the band etc. It would not be sold out this fast and Pre's certainly would not be flying off the shelf, only time will tell.
Quoted from Rarehero:
they're targeting it at easily-manipulated rich guys with Batstolgia.
I agree and I also think its a good thing, if I was into the show I would be in for a Pre or LE for sure, can't afford it or not into the theme then don't buy it, while I do feel prices are too high right now between new companies, Stern, the used market and there is a lot of stuff out there, Stern is giving people something they really want here and who knows the pin could be mind blowing, clips from the show and amazing gameplay etc. How the tune will change if thats the case, but this is why I love pinside.
The prices in Canada are as follows
pre - 9690
LE - 11,950
you can maybe get a little bit off or a free shaker but with tax in Ontario 13% the prices are already out of control, if there are enough people willing to pay and Stern can keep going then all the power to them. I wish it was cheaper but its not, plenty of great older used pins out there and recently places to play the new games are popping up, I started collecting 5 years ago and many of the 90's dmd were half the price they are now, more people buying and collecting, new manufactures more games and higher prices, its either deal with it, buy old and used or quit the hobby, what it means for me is that a pin will have to have a theme and gameplay worthy of the high price tag which is really rare, Aliens is the only one right now but if BM66 was something I must have then I would and if I couldn't afford it and other people could then good for them.
Quoted from SimonBaird:
I will hold judgement on Sterns pricing untill their next release, it's still to early to determine if the Batman 66 is just a one off hike or if future Pro/premium/Le will now be all priced $2k more.
I agree, no one knows for sure if this is the new pricing for Stern, there's no pro so this is a specialty item, I'll wait to see what happens with the next game and then laugh if its Star Wars with this pricing and it too sells out fast which I'm pretty sure it will, if its too hot in the kitchen stay away from the cook.
Quoted from 27dnast:
I gotta say...and this might not be the popular thing to say... but after seeing RZ in person and playing it: no way, no how I'm paying $6K for that.
I agree, so far Spooky pins have resembled garage projects to me, I'm hoping the 3rd one takes it up a notch both with theme and gameplay, not that RZ is terrible but I would rather buy a Stern Pro and even the home editions of TF, AV and SM which I actually like the look of seem superior with the exception of display ofcourse. JMO
Pinball will disappear in my opinion and in the not so distant future, now I'm talking decades here and I hope I'm wrong but the young ones of today will not embrace this hobby, they didn't grow up in arcades and with the exception of a few that will carry on with their fathers collection I just don't see it and predict it goes heavy into the VR realm as that tech becomes better and better, I'm sure that a small faction will always be trading and buying used pins, manufacturing? I don't know.
Point is lets just enjoy this for as long as it lasts, when I started collecting there was only Stern, now you have Heighway, JJP, Dutch, Spooky, I mean I agree things have gotten expensive but the alternative sucks.
Quoted from Maken:
$8500 USD = $11200 CAD today as per Google... not even close to the $13390 CAD+tax that Starburst is asking.
So a game that Americans can buy for $8500 is over 15k in Canada with tax. Nearly double.
These price increases will absolutely destroy NIB pinball sales outside of America.
That applies only to this WOZ which I can't understand, 8500usd pin is what 12,500 with tax, still out of control but what Playdium is doing charging extra on that WOZ is crap. Unless its the Ruby Red edition and they screwed it up which is the most likely answer, still TH standard is 11,590 then the LE 12,390 so what the hell is with 13,390, I think I might know.
Having the disease of being a fuckface
I haven't seen you in a while, I thought you died but its good to see they found a cure for fuckfaceitis.
Quoted from Pinstein:
I remember she was on classic star trek as the pregnant tribal leaders wife. It was forbidden to touch her. Her husband gets killed and bones delivers the baby, and she then falls for bones. Im sure one of you trekkies knows the name of the episode.
Friday's Child, great episode and seeing as there is a vault edition for Batman66 lets get ST going next please Stern, Oh man would that greatness.
Who cares if Stern has raised the SLE's to 80? Isn't that great for all the fans of this show who really want the best version of the pin? Isn't it possible Stern was flooded with requests to make more and willing customers who have no problem paying that much for what must be a grail pin to them? I don't understand what the issue is, If they were making a must have title for me and I missed out on the SLE version but now I could buy one it be nothing but good news, if this is because of prices then I'm sorry but that's crap, don't buy it.
Quoted from cooked71:
Really? You can't see the issue in Stern asking a ridiculous price for a game based solely on it being a "Super Limited Edition" (Sterns term not mine), specify a number of 30 units, and then increasing the amount available by 160%? But keeping the price the same?
The $5000 premium is only because of the "Super" Limited nature of the game.
So the super LE is the same as the LE with the exception of the title? I didn't know that, if thats the case then yeah its crap but then why would anyone buy one for the plaque? doesn't make sense, you see this is all coming down to money and future value I guess, I find that to be foolish, if the demand is there and people are willing to pay a premium no matter what the increased percentage then why not make them?
Quoted from FalconPunch:
You are not paying 5k extra for 5k of value. You are paying 5k for rarity.
Well that's stupid and if there aren't any extra features to validate price out side of rarity and you buy one then you are a douchebag (not you the community in general) WTF? I've bought several LE's and it was because I wanted the best possible example of that pinball machine, I never once considered its rarity, who buys a game based on that? It's like BBB I like the pin but would never pay the going rate as the gameplay is nothing special to me so why would I, rarity? I'm not trying to defend Stern here and am well aware that its a shifty move but if the demand is there then why not?
Quoted from flynnibus:
It's nothing more than people acting like they've been insulted, when they aren't even the people involved. That's drama - not discussion. It's like being upset about your neighbors are doing in their bedroom... if it doesn't impact you, don't get so upset about it.
People are so wound up tight about just how much their games will be worth... anything that has the very sense of hurting the value of their game Pinside acts like there can be no good at all from this. It all comes from the worry about values.
Just forget it, I agree with you 100% and still have not gotten a valid reason for the disdain of Stern making more SLE's, its because so many pinheads are about the value in the NIB market and the deal in the used market if anything could cause a person to hate this hobby its exactly that but no one wants to admit it, its suppose to be fun, its not a business to me at all, never will be.
Theres 2 kinds of collectors, the first is someone who will pay 15 to 20K for rarity, BBB, Kingpin, KingKong, Batman66 SLE I think I'm the other kind in which I'm not paying 20K for BBB which offers the same if not less amusement than TS or JM or AFM which I could buy all 3 for the same price and still have enough left over for 2 girls and party favours , If I was collecting coins or cards well then I can see it but I buy pins to play them not to impress other collectors or turn a profit, nothing wrong with it but difficult concept to grasp in the game playing department.
Quoted from zr11990:
Why are you guys going batshit over a woman who has to be 70 years old? True, she was amazingly beautiful in her youth but that was 35-40 years ago. It's kinda weird to me.
I think she was responsible for some of these fellas discovering their PP's, there wasn't any internet porn or Hustler magazine, that kind of thing "sticks' to you, I mean with you.
Amazing and I congratulate all SLE owners who bought what is most likely a grail pin for themselves, at 80 or 200 who cares, it looks beautiful, look forward to playing this.
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:
Sorry there is nothing on that machine that Justifies 15k even the fact that there are only 80 and will possibly have a different backglass and art changes on each.
Nothing that justifies it to you, I just watched another video and the cab art on the head is some kind of raised plastic in spots, who knows what else is extra for sure as it does say these are production games so while I doubt it will reach 5K worth of a difference I also don't care, Geez are you guys the same bunch who would key a Ferrari because you can't afford one , I can't and feel nothing but admiration and envy towards all those who can, don't buy it.
Quoted from ronaldvg:
Wrong. I just sent the e-mail to cancel. Here in Belgium the LE costs 14000 dollar and the LE that I am seeing is not worth more than my GBLE to me. I did not have to prepay anything yet, we could wait until the pictures were shown.
I do think it is a nice machine but no way that I can justify the price. It's less of a machine than the GB. The drawings are copied to every side of the machine and also again on the playfield. All the same ! Gameplay of TDK was not great and if I have to guess this one will also not be stellar. The LE does not even get the 5 dollar toys of the SLE .
Well that's different isn't it, that's almost a SLE is the States, I hear ya as Canada's price right now for an LE is the same thing and I'm not spending 14K on anything less than a dream theme. I just keep thinking about Slayer in this case, If they had made a Slayer SLE I would have to have it or Evil Dead and some folks feel that way about BM66. I just don't understand all the negativity when it should be in the Aerosmith thread where it belongs.
Quoted from MK6PIN:
Completely agree!!! Went for Alien as a grail theme, but I have major nostalgia ties to BM66....suspect I will enjoy both of these for quite some time!!!
All I know is that we have 3 good pinball machines to choose from right now and from 3 different manufactures, while I'm in on Alien I do like having choices, good times, I didn't grow up with BM66 and dialed in isn't my style but I look forward to playing them.
Quoted from rotordave:
Interesting that the 80 Super LE emails have gone out ... and I think we have had 2 guys (?) in this thread that have said they are getting one.
Which would mean that either the guys getting them aren't the boasting kind ... or a lot of the recipients aren't on Pinside.
I think there is a group of very rich people who buy these pins, basically every LE or whatever the best model is with out any thought of how much it costs and who have way better things to do than be on pinside, keep in mind I'm insulting myself as well.
Quoted from DCFAN:
The owner's lists on Pinside show that a very substantial portion of the LEs and limited games such as Spooky are owned by Pinsiders and that does not even include the people that don't list the games they own.
Well considering the fact that the LE's and Pre's are all lumped together makes ur theory excuse me garbage. I'm not saying pinside isn't important but there might be a reason Gary Stern isn't all that interested in our views and JJP has made major changes based on a lot of whats said here, Andrew Heighway is very involved in the site and I appreciate that, DP and spooky too, I think they kinda have to but Stern is absent for the most part and will cut you off for the slightest jab at his company, think about it and don't worry you and me are integral to the business.
Quoted from o-din:
We used to do that going to high school. Get half way there and turn around.
Yep, or maybe first period would happen but after a brief meeting in the smoking lounge it was off to the arcade with 20 mins or so spent in the car before we went in, not smoking hash or anything it was just a pep talk and counting change.
Quoted from RobT:
The vast majority of people who "are very rich" didn't get that way by dropping an extra $5k for for a whole lot of nothing in return.
I have to disagree Rob, they might be frugal when it comes to things that do not interest them but a rich fella who's into pinball will spend that money, I'm not rich but the guys I know with cash spend that much sometimes in a night on stuff and things that go with the stuff. If money was no object for me and I was a BM66 fan then I'd be trying to get the SLE with zero concern of price, but wouldn't spend a cent extra for car rims or fancy clothes, not into that at all, I understand what ur saying but most people I know with or without money don't see value in a pinball machine regardless of the price.
Quoted from kvan99:
The kind of magic he was talking about was games that were made in the 90's. Remember the first time you saw Rudy talking in FH? Or the Mist ball on BSD? Stern games are simply missing that magic..at least it's severely watered down. Maybe that's why we're less enthused about the price increases. IT NEEDS MORE MAGIC!
How much is really gonna change when its all the same designers from 30 and 40 years ago, look at the new Sterns while some have interesting layouts for the most part there are reboots, I like the PL games from years back but Dialed In? come on, maybe what we need to breathe new life into this hobby are new designers who think out of the box or its gone as far as its going to go and will die in the next couple decades, I don't anyone under 35 who's into pinball, I know they are there but its a minority, I hate to say it but pinball is peaking right now and that's great, however it won't last and the next time she goes down that will be the end of it, or I completely wrong, I hope so.
Quoted from DJNOEL30:
I think it's incredible that all we have are pictures and the SLE candidates have a Nov 4th "snooze or lose" line in the sand to pay the deposit if they really want this thing! Maybe I might change my mind and pull the trigger on the 15K if I had a nice video of the game play! I figured we would all see something by now especially after the expo...
Shouldn't be incredible at all, this is a dream theme for so many and I'm envious big time, my dream theme would be a toss up between Castle Wolfenstein, Blade Runner and Slayer any of those announced by Stern in SLE form and I'm in, I'm in sight unseen, for me anyway its 1 in every 15 or so pins announce that even remotely excites me and besides Aliens I don't have one theme from the entire pinball history that is a must have so when these things come up its major, I like some of the OG themes from the 80's and 90's but movies/music/TV/videogame not a one.
Quoted from taz:
I guess I understand the principled aspect of your point, but I don't understand why you're so passionate about it or personally offended if you're not an SLE buyer. The numbers changed from 30 to 80 before buyers were selected, so no one was on the hook for an SLE at the 30 quantity and then had the rug pulled out from under them.
exactly, I don't give a shit how many they make and I would say the same even If I was a buyer, the last reason on my list to buy a LE/SLE is rarity, in fact it doesn't even make the list. Stern will either continue to sell pins at these prices and be successful or they won't and prices will come down or they will go out of business, its a game, lots of pins out there, lots of choices as of today, "if its too hot in the kitchen, stay away from the cook" Archie Bunker 1972.
Quoted from rai:
If someone has enough money to spend twice the cost of a previous LE for a stupid whatever it has then they really have more money than brains. Most likely to these guys who can spend $15k because the pin has nicer cabinet decals like $15K to some people is like $15 to other people.
No offense but I don't think its a good idea to compare brain power with the English you just used in this paragraph, I hope ur not just figuring out now that money to some people is easily spent and to others must be budgeted and held sacred.
What the hell are they waiting for? even unfinished code gameplay would be welcomed. I could understand if they weren't asking for more money but this is stupid.
Quoted from guyincognito:
but was this Batman TV show even any good?
Not really, but then again I loved that 60's Spiderman cartoon so much growing up in the 80's, if the VE had been based on that cartoon I would have to have it. All you old timers are damn lucky to be getting a theme like this, enjoy.
Oh man, A SWLE or SLE Sith edition is a dream theme, I really hope they do something like this, my wallet won't like it but who cares, I gotta say this 15K SLE shit is a little much but a BM66 SLE beside a ST OG Trilogy SLE is pretty special, I hope Stern keeps going with this boutique style now and then, theres always the LE/Pre models and it gives some of us the chance to own dream themes in the best possible way.
Quoted from jar155:
Honest question: Besides paying a LOT more, what is special about this? How is the "best possible way" to own a pinball machine?
Its special in regards to the theme, besides all the stuff mentioned by docquest its a dream theme for certain collectors and that in itself makes the SLE a must have. If Stern made lets say Predator or Blade Runner, Total Recall or Running Man I would drop the 15K in a heart beat, I want the best example available and it wouldn't be going anywhere so who cares about value down the road. The main thing is I don't care how much it is if its something I want, I mean theres limits but if you have the coin why not buy the best?
Quoted from DaveH:
I agree Taz. People shouldn't be bitching about Stern lying about the quantity of "Super Limited" games... They should be bitching about the sub-par playfields, or the incredulous pricing.
How about not bitching at all and appreciating Stern's last pin and current machine that are dream themes for so many, I mean Ghostbusters on the OG films and BM66, ok yeah it would be better if everything was perfect but whats the alternative? Stern going under in the mid 2000's and the same buying and trading of 90's DMD's for the last 10 years, because of Stern we have JJP, DP, Heighway, Spooky and more, I thank Stern for keeping it alive and hope I can add a Star Wars OG triology SLE or Sith LE to my collection in the next 6 months. Personally I would rather pay more money and have the option of great themes than get a deal with what are for me really lame themes, but hey you always have the option of paying a lot of cash for lame themes too, "Dialed In"
I love Alien and it has an edge because of theme for me and JJP WOZ and TH are beautiful but this thing is simply gorgeous, I like the 27" displays but I prefer what Stern has done, BM66 SLE might be the nicest pin I've ever seen, I think the gameplay is going to be great, the small LCD with villains taunting you and Lyman on code, damn
Quoted from Mojosan:
Everyone makes financial choices in life to upgrade to premium products. We all probably do it 25 times per day without even realizing it. What may seem like a waste to me might make perfect sense to you and vice versa.
My brother always makes comments on how I can spend big money on pins and arcades/consoles etc. yet him and his wife just bought a 10,000 stove and an 8K dining room table, they like to cook and entertain but my Grandmother whos the best cook I've yet encountered managed to prepare glorious foods in small kitchen with a shitty stove and we ate it all off a generic style kitchen table, personally I wouldn't spend more than 1K on both a stove and table, that leaves me 17K to buy pinball machines, but to him its ridiculous, point is we all spend money on things other folks would deem a waste.
Quoted from rai:
Even if I was rich I still can't see why I'd rather have a SLE instead of a LE plus a Met pro.
If you become rich then you probably would see, think of it like this what if you made 5K a week, would it be a big deal anymore? that's only 240,000 a year, well not only that's a lot, what about a 500K or a million? you can see how that 5000 hike to a SLE really doesn't matter, not to mention this pin will retain its value and if anything go up so it seems the only people who have an issue with this are those who can't afford it or aren't interested in the theme
Quoted from kpg:
To answer your questions:
Q: Why upgrade to ceramic brakes on a Porsche 911 (for $8500.00) when the standard brakes work fine?
A: Carbon ceramics provide much better cooling characteristics for track use, and outperform standard brakes exponentially as they will not fade. Also, they can heat cycle many times before needing to be replaced- where standard steel brakes will need frequent replacement and will actually cost a track driver more over the long haul.. of course, unless you use your 911 for mall trips and weekend drives along the beach.
Q: Why do hundreds of millions of people use iPhones and iPads when alternatives exist for a fraction of the price?
A: Because other devices suck and do not work as well as their iPhone's and iPads
Q: Why spend $65.00 on a NY strip from DelFrisco's when the $19.99 NY Strip at Outback is the same weight and provides the same calories?
A: Because the $65.00 steak is likely a Prime cut that wasnt frozen, and was seared to perfection by a Chef who graduated from Le Cordon Bleu culinary school.. and the $20 Outback steak was thawed and pan seared by a guy who just was hired for a slight pay increase from his former Sizzler job.
Q: Why spend $85.00/mo on a daily Starbucks coffee when you can make it at home (in a paper togo cup with lid) for about $12.00/mo?
A: The prices of lids and cups are at least $15/month - and coffee is likely another $15-20/month. That means you are in $30-35 per month in costs of materials to make your own coffee, and for $50 more you get the pleasure of having a morning stop and someone else conveniently making your own coffee.
Q: Why did I waste my time doing this?
A: I have no fucking clue
Who the hell r u the answer man?
Quoted from iceman44:
Will be exciting to see what he does with the video assets too
I think it looks great but the big thing is going to be the LCD and the mini LCD with the villains taunting you during play, I know we have several LCD pins already but this the first theme for me that I'm actually excited to see the video, well until Alien comes out. Congratulations to all the SLE owners its a thing of beauty.
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