Batman (The Dark Knight)
Stern, 2008
Batman 66 (LE)
Stern, 2016
Batman 66 (Premium)
Stern, 2016
Batman 66 (Super LE)
Stern, 2016
Star Trek: The Mirror Universe
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Sounds just like a BDK VE. Lyman/Gomez were on the original.
Trying hard not to be cynical but...dressing up a VE up as something new..... pro being replaced by premium as an excuse to bump the price again.....Super LE "by invitation only"(!!!!! WTF?).......
You'd want to love batman.
Quoted from Air_Pinball:Having new interactive toys, and an interactive LCD screen on the playfield, and a new LCD screen don't sound they were that worried about keeping costs down. They may have just brought the best part of BDK over...the crane.
Really doubt it's any more than a re-skin like SMVE. Mostly identical layout, but new toys art and callouts. But we dont know until we see it.
Quoted from rubberducks:Who'd have thought at the beginning of the year Ghostbusters would be the only all new game for Stern in 2016 ...
Didnt think of that - I guess with moving to the new factory and also the new OS, a big year of new titles wouldnt have been ideal. And proven to be a good strategy given the struggle keeping up with existing demand and all the GB issues/PF issues. One new title and a couple of re-skins has proven more than enough.
On the plus side, next year will be huge.
Quoted from Air_Pinball:If it's new interactive toys, then it's not a re-skin. If the Coffee can is gone, it's not a re-skin, etc...
Spider-Man had new toys, but they were the same toys.
Guess time will tell. But a new toy, doesnt make for a new game. Without changing the layout and code it's still the same game (IMO). It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.......or should I say bat.
Quoted from hawkmoon:HA HHAA MY FRIENDS!! Just this minute,i talked with my rep.Eric,at Gameroomguys!
People,i just Cancelled my GB/PRe,and JUST BOUGHT a Batman 66.LE!!! WOHOOO! Ghostbusters was a test pin for the Spike system,developed for THIS PIN!! Eric told me we have never seen anything like this before,AND I"M IN!!BATMAN66 Club,here we are!! Eric ALSO told me that tha SLE's are only given to Gary Sterns personal friends for sale! Eric has 1LE left,delivery,late November,Christmas for the PRe'sOH,by the way October for the GB/PRes I finally got the goody first!!
You're funny.
Quoted from musketd:Needs more ramps bad; has one of he worst ramp layouts ever; hoping Gomez used for very little from batman dark knight other then the craned
Really hope this is not just BDK VE. Will be very tempted if it's not.
Quoted from PinB:PLAYFIELD LAYOUT
- Left ramp & right ramp that cross
Wonder how that's going to work? Where will the new ramp entry be? Current one goes Centre to right. Can't really put a new ramp entry on the right because of the crane, so must be on left.
Quoted from Miguel351:a la Hobbit and Heighway…
Looks like that might be the only option.
Quoted from Miguel351:I just don't understand why they're retheming BDK.
Maybe Gomez felt he never got the game he wanted with the original. Maybe due to budget restrictions? Now with a new buoyant market and matching prices, he can finish it as he originally wanted.
Quoted from DaveH:So, are the teases from Stern exciting me, or irritating me? Hmmm, to the Batcave. Punch this into the numerical batfabulator.... The card that dropped out of the slot said irritated.
I don't like this kind of release. A game with drawn flyer. Still no info about the game beyond the crane that us fans apparently loved.
The Hot Wheels toys are irritating me no end. If I see one Hot Wheels toy on that PF Im out.
Anyone else see the irony in Sterns new position?
According to Gomez and Stern, pinball is grass roots. It's all about the game. No bullsh*t "gimmicks" like colour displays. "The game is on the playfield, the game is under glass". It's all about the player.
Must have now changed to "F*ck, why do we bother even showing a playfield? The game is now in the hype."
Quoted from badbilly27:Stern will also be offering extra chances to get a SLE in the form of raffle tickets. You can buy them for $300 each (30 years x 10), limited to 30 (30 years), available to the top 30 people (30 years) they select who come to the Expo party dressed as their favorite Batman 66 character. You will still have to pay for your SLE if selected.
Awesome, going out to buy my outfit now. I wont look stupid will I?
Quoted from BoJo:Kudos to Stern for finding a way to make a quick 9K
Considering the party is limited to 450 people and many will not dress up you have some good odds to be in the top 30 selected. Maybe people will start flipping their tickets since it's sold out.
I actually assumed it was a joke. Hoped it was a joke. Someone please tell me its a joke.
Quoted from Air_Pinball:And yet they're all sold....so why should Stern care?
They care because every time a company communicates with its customers it's sending a message about the company. Sure they may have sold the 15 SLE's but what has it done to Sterns image?
Sure they may have "swept the GB playfield issues under the rug" by not officially acknowledging the problem, but what has it done to Sterns image?
The image I'm seeing is a company that's suddenly decided to milk the booming pinball market for all its worth. Lower production standards and higher prices......just because they can get away with it. Not because they are improving the product.
And that's fine, it's their prerogative. But it's a short term strategy in my opinion. Not a strategy you'd normally see from a 30 year old family owned business. More like a strategy from a 30 year old business that's just been taken over by private equity investors.
Quoted from solarvalue:There's also an unusually negative article in Pinball News entitled: "HOLY CASH COW! BATMAN 66 DETAILS REVEALED"
"Stern were clearly milking this title for every last drop they can wring out of collectors, and that appears to be fully confirmed by the prices for the three models."
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/batman66/index3.html
"The Super-LE meanwhile shamelessly tries to cash-in with a price tag of $14,999"
Quoted from vid1900:People said the same thing when Harley Davidson keep raising prices.
I think now the Ultra Limited Low Harley is $30k.
If people keep buying them, of course HD will keep building them.
-
Same with Stern.
You guys keep buying them, of course Stern will keep building them........
I've always thought of Harley and Stern as the same company in different markets. Stern just a few steps behind.
Quoted from Mike_J:Most well off people expect to lose money when selling a toy.
Though, most well off people I know don't sell their toys. Their collection just keeps growing whether it be pinball or automobiles.
So true. Pinball has been unique up until now. Buying a NIB toy then selling in a few months with almost no depreciation. Stern is currently testing exactly how much people are prepared to lose before saying enough is enough. I would guess there is a large portion of the market that won't be able to justify the acceptable loss that comes from buying and selling NIB toys. Their annual cost of being in the hobby might go from $1000 to $3000. This may be hard to justify. Which means they'll either drop out of the NIB market completely or buy significantly less of them to spread the loss over a longer time.
Quoted from Meph:..... Stern really should know that people will know and pick apart everything they do.
Especially with the hype they have created with this title. They have allowed no room for anything but pinball perfection. Photoshoping existing assets, hand drawn or not, is not a good start.
Quoted from Yipykya:It still looks good though and true to Stern's cost cutting of late, it"s probably saving them $$ to be sure.
Yeh, I think for most releases, it's acceptable if executed well. But the game is $15k and they're asking people to beg for the right to purchase. If the best they can come up with is photoshoping existing assets, then they're setting themselves up for a fall. Lets hope the "redesigned left playfield" is phenomenal.
penguincombined (resized).jpg
ridlercombined (resized).jpg
edit: good catch docquest
Quoted from docquest:Looks like they are using the same art that was used on the moebius model kits which looked great.
Quoted from flynnibus:Doesn't look photochop'd to me.. looks like redrawn in the same styles. There are differences like the head tilt is different relative to the hat.. hat different.. elements on the skin are different, etc.
Nah, its the same. Stern has gone over it with some heavier outlines and slightly added to the shading to make it look more hand drawn.
Quoted from iceman44:Some of you guys can't help yourselves.
I'd be jealous too
Not jealous as I have a (refundable) deposit down. Just making me more critical because its AUD $14500 and at the price this game needs to be freakin' awesome. Was hoping for more than re-used assets, but I realise this is only a small element. Will definitely wait until reveal at which stage I can pull my deposit if i'm not happy.
Quoted from Billy16:Vid--not buying this. Autotune is lame--any self respecting vocalist who can actually sing on key wouldn't be caught dead using it. It has made stars out of a lot of "singers" who are pitch challenged, however. Of course, I've never made it out of the bar/party circuit, so what do I know...
So Vid, by comparing B66 artwork to autotuned music your expressing your disappointment in the artwork? Just because there's a precedent, doesnt mean its a good one.
Quoted from vid1900:How would Stern know if an end-customer cancelled their game?
It's not like your name gets engraved in the serial number plate at the factory.
I don't believe your distributor for a moment, but I'm glad you got the fnck out while you still could!
From what I've been told, Stern is asking for deposits from suppliers for the number of LE's they've been allocated. Whether they pass that on to the customer is then up to the distributor.
Quoted from Hazoff:You disagreed with my post but I would like to hear a valid reason, why is it a problem to increase the amount of SLE's?
Really? You can't see the issue in Stern asking a ridiculous price for a game based solely on it being a "Super Limited Edition" (Sterns term not mine), specify a number of 30 units, and then increasing the amount available by 160%? But keeping the price the same?
The $5000 premium is only because of the "Super" Limited nature of the game.
Quoted from flynnibus:Shouldn't there be only 30 people in the world who care... if that's really what's happening?
It never ceases to amaze me how much energy people have to invest in *saving* other people... who may not even care.
It sounds to me like this other group is 'yet another edition' of the game. Not necessarily just expanding the 30...
Sure, the 30 people should feel completely screwed. Meanwhile it just reaffirms my opinion that Stern is treating its customers with arrogance and is only interested in milking them for every dollar possible. With every dick move like this it makes me want to throw more money at Sterns opposition.
Quoted from 27dnast:This is all just so stupid. What a crock of crap. All of this LE and Super LE non-sense. Many moons ago (several years past) Nate Shivers joked about a Super LE version of some game and it sounded so silly... and here we are. People worried about LEs and Super LEs.
This reminds me of what happened to baseball cards back in the 80s. Baseball cards got uber popular - truly rare (old cards that survived attics and shoe boxes) cards got super expensive and new young player cards from newish standard run of the mill yearly releases were gaining value. Think of those newer players as the Trons and IMs (pre Vault Edition) of the pinball world.
Know what happened?
Companies got greedy. They started releasing special sets, sets with foil cards, extended rookie sets that captured rookies that had unexpected good rookie years... all kinds of craziness...and prices skyrocketed. Things got super expensive.
New companies started popping up (Fleer and Topps were challenged by Score and others).
Collectors started buying complete sets in the box and storing them - keeping them mint and untouched.
And guess what happened?
Well, for one, the card collecting craze ended. And all of the nonsense manufactured during those boom years is completely worthless. None of it ended up being special in the long run - it only felt special during the "forking over more money" and immediacy of the "fear of missing out" limited nature of card run IN THE MOMENT. There's nothing special about the special cards made during those years because it was all a completely manufactured limited nature....and too many collectors bought and mummified the regular run of the mill stuff.
Don't believe me? Go call up a card shop (if you can find one) and tell them you have a complete set of Topps 1988 cards - never opened, Mint - see what they say.
Sound familiar?
Just step back and look at the crap that modern pinball companies are starting to pull... there's an end game coming to this nonsense, and these LE and Super LE games are not going to deliver on their faked limited nature. Go ahead and trick yourself now, if you must, but a wake up call is in order IMO.
The very essence of pinball collecting and playing has been completely overridden by an industry that is creating a false market of demand...and they are tweaking that false market right before your very eyes to make more money.
You win Pinside today. 
Didn't Stern just hire a guy that used to work for one of the card companies? Or something similar - an "expert" in limited run marketing bullsh*t.
Quoted from DaveH:This analogy still doesn't apply. A baseball card is an object you look at and hide away. Its entire value is that someone else might want it.
A pinball machine on the other hand, is a game. Sure, I collect them, but I play them. And Tron is a perfect example. I bought mine NIB, and it lost some value the moment I opened it. Later it was worth more, then less, and then more again. And none of that mattered because I think it's a very fun game. Right now, I could sell it and make a nice profit, but I wouldn't have Tron to play.
In the end, the "value" of my. Tron could drop to $2000, and I wouldn't care. It would still have the value of fun. This is the difference between this and cards. When MMr was announced, I almost jumped on it, but even though it was a big drop in price, I never considered MM to be 8k worth of fun, so I passed.
Sure, the machine itself still has value as a game, but it's all the artificial LE crap that won't hold value. Your Tron has held value because it is truly limited - you can't go and buy another new one and they're not making any more (yet). B66 is available in 2 LE versions at the moment and an unlimited premium version for as long as the licence is valid. Maybe in 10 years when pinball has collapsed again, then B66 will be truly collectable.
Quoted from Rondogg:Stern needs to figure out a way to get into the used game market. They are missing out on the millions of dollars their games make in the secondary market. I'd bet 60,000 games change hands every year and Stern is leaving a lot of $$ on the table. A LOTR game that has changed hands half a dozen times only profits Stern for the first sale. I'm thinking they need to build is some sort of gps tracker chip that disables the game if it is moved more than 100' from your house. Call it a "Security Feature" that allows you to get your game back if stolen or lost. Then, the next owner has to pay $500 to get it updated and re-established for their own home.
Maybe install them on all games (Sega, DE, Stern) at shows and locations so they can capitalize on their back catalog of games? Maybe get the B/Wms license, they like money too, right?
Quoted from Rondogg:Another idea: Stern "Home Route" line. Home purchased games "credit up" when you call a special "Collector's Line" and hit the number of credits using your dial pad. 10 cents a game, less for bulk purchases. They won't work otherwise. For $5 per game you can get full credits for a night in case you are having a party and don't want to be on the phone ordering credits and such. Maybe have a special "CEO Edition" where for an extra $10k you can have credits for life (unless you sell the machine then new credit charges/transfer fees apply).
Quoted from Rondogg:Or maybe an edition that does play for free in the home but gives you a little shock, nothing dangerous (I'm not crazy!), just a soft little jolt that you can barely feel. Maybe it would affect kids and pets a little more but for an adult it would be almost nothing. Then you could pay for credits if you know you're having a lot of people (especially kids!) over. That way everyone could play as much as they want and not get charged(!).
Jody, you realise you are posting confidential Stern emails on Pinside? Gary is not going to be happy.
Quoted from Mr68:Sticker shock may kick in for some when they have to write the check. There could be a second round of announcements.
I can see a heap of guys turning up expecting their free B66SLE only to be presented with an invoice for USD$15,000.
What pisses me off is the SLE should be the LE, the LE the premium and the Premium the Pro. That could at least justify the Pricing. But the SLE price hike is truly laughable.
Guessing the pricing strategy on this is mostly Ka-pow's doing. But if they sell everything, no question Gary will be implementing it into the next in house launch.
There is no way to justify either B66sle or Dialed In Collectors Edition prices. Seems you get a little bit more on B66sle, but $5k more? So theyre both as bad as each other.
The major difference is there are no collectors who want a collectable version of Dialed In. At least as a theme, B66 is collectible (not $15k collectible, but still). Anyone buying Dialed In is buying because it's a good game, not because of theme and collectibility.
Quoted from iceman44:If 240 people would pay $9500 for the le
Why would they sell it for $8k?
100% agree. Just seems odd for George or Jody to come out and announce they're trying to take the aftermarket profiteering out of play, as if it's of some benefit to the end user. By all means do it, but don't try to pretend it's for my benefit. I'll be still paying the same either way.
Quoted from iceman44:Def not for our benefit
The 240 are sold out and in distributors hands. The 120 in Europe and Canada need some kind of rebate program that passes through to the end user. Doesn't matter what version it is. Those guys are getting pummeled
Same here - AUD$14.5k for the LE. Definitely no profiteering left here.
You guys are just approaching the psychological $10k price point. I'm guessing sales will hold up ok to that point. We've well and truly jumped it. Now it's all stupid money - $12k, $14k it's all ridiculous and I as I type it, I can't believe I'm even considering buying one.
Quoted from badbilly27:I was at Expo, here's my quick take:
- SLE cabinet looks very cool in person. In fact, best cabinet I've ever seen - sorry Jpop. Artwork, pin striping just excellent job.
- SLE speaker grill, backglass and topper thumbs up (really need after market of this for LE and premium)
- Playfield layout - ouch. It's BDK. Yes, there should be some flow because tumbler gone and path of the dead - should speed game up. So those are both pluses. I was disappointed at the new spinning can replacement. In this one case, pics look better than it does in person.
- LCD looks like the perfect size going forward for all Stern games.
- Only in attract mode.
I'm a Batman 66 fan, but play field reinforces - FOR ME - have to wait. That play field looks so sparse in person. Code and LCD are gonna have to rock to justify an even aftermarket purchase for me. I really hope it becomes something special.
Talking to people who are not pinheads, showed them play fields on Batman66 then WOZ, Hobbit and Dialed In and they said Batman66 was the lower priced of the four.
Thanks for the honest feedback. Im not locking in my order until I see good gameplay video. (Still cant believe some US distributors are insisting on no refund deposits).
Quoted from kermit24:So he was kicked out of the Stern tour and the party? Seems crazy and strange to me. Pinball News is highly regarded within the industry. Pretty lame if that's true. Stern shouldn't be afraid to answer a few questions.
gary-hopkins-questions-are-only-offensive-to-those-who-have-something-to-hide.-i-asked-n-numerous-times-about-his-relationship-with-j.-he-gave-me-lies-ridicule-and-insults.-sharpcheaters-sharpinfidelityhurts (resized).jpg
That's the issue I'm having with this game, and I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I don't think I can justify it. As others have said, I swear it's made me bi-polar.
For a split second every day I forget the price and think how good it might be, LCD, Batman, Lyman etc. Then I wake up and tell my self it's obscene to even think about it. Even given the "scarcity", I can't reason it. If it were GBLE pricing, even just for the B66LE, I think I'd be in. But I truly think Gary has jumped the shark.
Trying to work out the different modes available on the new rotating centre thingo. Looks like 3 separate modes/shots.
Looks like the Batphone is just a couple of stand ups. But maybe to the right there is a shot:
Then the Bat cave/Bat computer looks like a mini TOTAN lamp style rotating spinner with the bat mobile on top. (Edit:maybe wishful thinking ...might not be a spinner - the circle looks just painted). And maybe something behind it if you shoot through it? Can't quite work that out:
Then the TV "Villian Vision" is a couple of angled stand ups, with a physical lock mechanism to the left. Which is a bit weird because the lock shot inserts are on the right loop:
The whole mechanism is pretty complex.
Quoted from MK6PIN:Man, doesn't that magnet look like the whole thing could go down, TOTAN style, to a tunnel???...sure looks like a lot of metal around that thing...
Would be great if it did, but looks like the new wider Magnet style like on TWD/SMVE. The other thing that looks interesting is the scoop on the right - it looks different to an ordinary scoop - its longer. Does anyone know if this was on BDK? If so how did it work?
Quoted from CaptainNeo:in the reality of it. Prices should drop from an LCD screen. You can buy them in bulk for 1/4 of that it costs them to buy a specialized part like a DMD. So if anything, going to LCD is cost effective and should be reflected in a better price for the customer. But a lot of pinball buyers are not that smart, and think they should be charged more for such an item.
And I think long term coding for LCD would be cheaper. Of course there's the immediate cost of changing over. But once they've got a template for fonts and screen layout etc, dropping in full colour clips, especially from licences, would be easier than converting everything to dots.
Here's some more hype. This game will likely be one of the most limited Stern games ever!
LE and SLE have sold easily and the value/pricing argument gets clouded by their limited nature.
But its the Premium that really lacks and Stern will struggle to sell many. The 500 signed "baseball" cards Stern have might be too many.
I could see Stern reducing the Premium pricing once LE's and SLE's have been delivered.
Quoted from BrewinBombers:You don't think they will sell 180 Premium? I'd wager a fair sum that they sell far more than 180 Premiums.
Maybe it's not such an issue in the US, but over here the B66 Premium is the same price as Ghostbusters LE was. And Ghostbusters Premium is $2000 cheaper than B66 Premium. It's a hard sell.
Quoted from J85M:Has anyone heard if Stern plan to sort out the Catwoman art issue with the ramp flaps over the top half of her head? Tried posting on Facebook and via private Facebook message and clearly just being ignored, even went so far as to mention I was asking purely for some confirmation so I could pay up for an LE
Quoted from gweempose:When Jared was showing me the game, he specifically mentioned that this would be corrected before the machine goes into production.
My guess is they'll somehow adjust the ramp flaps - not sure how and not sure if I believe it will happen
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