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(Topic ID: 167575)

Batman 66 by Stern new info


4 years ago

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  • 604 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Bamatami
  • Topic is favorited by 58 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1 Flyer announcing Batman 66 Posted by GAP (4 years ago)

Post #4163 Photo of the Batman 66 playfield via Stern Posted by dmbjunky (4 years ago)

Post #4193 Photos of the SLE Cab Posted by cavalier88z24 (4 years ago)

Post #4194 Photo of LE Cab Posted by cavalier88z24 (4 years ago)

Post #4264 Clear photo of the entire SLE Posted by DCFAN (4 years ago)

Post #4449 Video from the Stern tour at Expo 2016 Posted by KingBW (4 years ago)

Post #4974 Batman 66 Product and Feature Matrix Posted by KLR2014 (4 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#104 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The color lcd was never going to be part of a ~$5k game. That is why no competitors can produce games at that price either.

I kinda doubt anyone really wants to try and compete for the Stern Pro dollars, the money is obviously in the higher priced games and collectors, especially at the lower volumes competitors are moving. But just to be clear, color LCD isn't some crazy expense. Screens are cheaper than LED dot matrix displays even.

Sure, producing content for them CAN be more expensive, but it doesn't have to be. My guess is this is just like Spider-Man VE, no Pro, and they're dressing it up past that to cash in. Hey, if you can pull it off great, no criticism of Stern. If I made my own game I'd be down for making 30 $uper Premium LE games for collectors too, why not?

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from bayoubilly70:

I guess everyone has their own art opinion.

Which is why it's impossible to please everyone, there's no point in even trying. I promise you someone will complain bitterly about the art (it won't be me, honest) no matter how they do it.

#179 4 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

Well played Stern. Well played.
The only miss here is the introduction of a Stern cash rewards Visa card.

JJP already tried that.

#220 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I would really have a hard time believing Stern is going to swap over to LCD and not "Jack" the price up for the privilege. They have been doing a nice bump up each game. Now the do a game without a Pro, so when the Pro returns, a 5500 street price will look cheap, shouldn't it?

It doesn't make sense to me, from a business perspective, to do that. To be blunt, the rich dudes don't buy Pros, and the people who do buy Pros aren't bottomless money pits. There's a point where you say "I can't afford that" or "I cant justify that" or "That's not going to earn fast enough to be worth it".

Or, you push people up to the next price point. If you're paying $5500 and you can get a more fully featured game for $1000 more? And that's where Stern's competition is. Heighway of course, Spooky is that price range, JJP doesn't have anything that low I don't think, but you're creeping closer to them. Dutch Pinball I think is too high for that particular jump. Sure, you might upgrade to a Stern Premium. Or you might say at that price I have choice, let's see what else is out there. And they get Alien instead.

You can't squeeze blood from a stone, that Pro price point only works if it's actually cheaper. IMHO. You lose Pro sales, and some of them don't buy at all, some do convert up to Premium, but some buy competitor's games. That just doesn't feel like a win.

#320 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

The cost isn't the hardware, its artists that know how to the clipping, editing - JPD at Jersey Jack did a heck of a lot with commerical TV graphics in order to produce the content on WOZ and THLE. Is the time involved in the graphics and probably the expertise needed for content that has kept STERN in the LCD development phase for so long.

First off, JP did killer work on Hobbit. Top notch, he's a real pro, nothing but respect.

I just want to say though, as someone who is actively working on a HD LCD game right this moment, and is able to speak from direct first hand experience, it's really not that big a deal to do LCD instead of DMD, just in general. Yes, it's work. But so are dots. Dots are an art, it's not easy to do good ones. Games like Metallica and TWD took real effort and time.

Either way you have to plan out animations and choreograph etc. It's just a medium, the work and planning isn't all that different either way.

If you gave me a choice right now between doing and HD LCD game and a DMD dots game, purely from an effort standpoint, I'd prefer to do the HD one. There are just more options. Yes, you can go 'overboard' like Hobbit (in a good way), into some really intricate territory, but that's just one approach. And if you have a license with video, like Batman TV show clips, you're set.

Batman 66 especially. It's practically designs itself. Is anyone not expecting to see JACKPOT!! in the style of BIFF!! WHAMM!! ?

pow (resized).png

All I'm saying is take it from someone who's doing it, LCD isn't something cr-a-a-a-azy that needs huge budgets and giant teams to pull off.

#347 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinstein:

So your also creating the animations for alien?

No, we have an animator, Kelly, I'm just working with him, as well as working on things like the dashboard design for displaying scores etc. And he of course works with Joe, our lead programmer, and David who's doing sound. All the pieces need to fit together to work. We have a good team.

It's really about people, and not hardware. LCD is just something to use as a tool. I'm not trying to badmouth Stern at all, they're the big dogs for a reason, but all this talk of only they can program games, come on. With all of the Stern where is the code threads? They're not code magicians, they miss as much as they hit. It's not about Stern, it's about Lyman. Maybe Dwight, I haven't played his new games really (I owned Star Trek, but don't count that as his game), but reaction seems pretty good. People make things happen.

JJP was lucky to find JP, he's made a ton happen for them. Let's see what the Stern team does with an LCD. But it's not wizardry, and it's not some crazy leap from a DMD, that's all I'm trying to get at.

#404 4 years ago
Quoted from Evoga:

I don't understand if Stern are celebrating 30 years why they have to partner with Ka-Pow?
Are they short of money or am I missing something?

I assumed they brought in the license. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#407 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

I think having Joe part of this is big plus.

Not everyone shares that sentiment apparently.

#438 4 years ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

I personally think it's funny as hell that Jared is back on Pinside up-voting any positive Stern post (like the original post in this thread) and hiding from any ghosting, chipping, overdue code, delivery, mis-matched rails, or any other QA/QC issue like it's the plague.

What's he supposed to say though? He's got the company line, or he's got find another client. I don't envy that position.

Maybe stick with staying away, you're right, it's funny, but pick on Jody, not Jared.

#497 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

(easy example.. the custom STTNG pins for the cast)

While those were very cool, all they have that's different is a little plaque and some speech outtakes in the ROM. I have two friends who own STTNG cast machines, and the story of getting them from the cast members is cooler than anything else about them, IMHO.

The LE thing has always been a cash grab, and it only works if people feel like the intangible value is worth the extra. If you dilute the special sauce that's harder to do.

Doesn't seem like Stern is having trouble selling them out still, so probably no big deal to them.

#541 4 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

Can you tell that story? I'm intrigued.

If you didn't figure it out already Rarehero has one, he can tell the story, and the Facebook link is to the other, Pat's game. Looks like you can't see if if you're not friends with him, I don't want to post photos without his permission, but he's standing with the actor who played Worf next to the NIB STTNG game. Rarehero also opened his NIB. The actors just didn't care about the pins I guess!

Edit: vid posted it, so it's on him, not me. I'm sure Pat wouldn't mind at all though.

#651 4 years ago

There are some people who just have to have a certain theme. It means something to them. Obviously the Alien buyers for instance, they pre-ordered because the theme meant a lot to them, they haven't seen any gameplay, and I'm not judging them, to be clear. I'd be a moron to bitch about them pre-ordering, right?

I imagine Batman is the same, nostalgia or big Batman fan or whatever. Plus however many people just love to order the latest game, or get LEs or whatever, plus however many people are playing the speculation game (I think that's a tough one to win personally). That adds up, I get it.

Still, at least on Alien you knew the price, and you could see CAD of the playfield, the features are mostly known. Maybe I shouldn't be, but I am kinda surprised at how many people are putting down money without any further details. I mean, the price at least, before you put down a deposit?

I assume that they wouldn't say "all new layout" if they only changed a couple things, but keeping the crane toy makes it sound like it's going to be at least partially like TDK. Maybe Gomez had a cool idea that was cost cut from the first game and he gets to do it now, maybe it shoots totally differently, or maybe it's like Rarehero says, inserts and bottom and crane are the same, and then tweak some of the shots.

Totally different rules from scratch from Lyman? Or is he adding onto TDK's rules in some fashion instead?

Just a lot of questions that only have guesses for answers is all. If Lyman did new rules from scratch why didn't they put that as a bullet point? This is a game aimed at collectors, they know how much people love Lyman's rules. If it's updated TDK is that cool with you? I have faith in Lyman, but he's supposed to be programming the next game is the word, right? So how much time did he get to work on it?

I dunno, I'm honestly not trying to be down on Stern, or people pre-ordering, it's all good. It's just pinball. But it bothers me a little because it makes the hobby feel less stable when people are throwing money around on such low information. These price increases are feeling out of control. The speculation feels unhealthy. It's not like Batman 66 leaked (well nothing substantial beyond the idea) Stern was the one who put the Batman stuff on the flyer. They're not a small startup trying to get pre-order cash to operate, why ask for deposits before even revealing the price, let alone pics of the game?

This double LE thing, with the Super LEs? That's cool. I hope they're really decked out, I want to see it. But this luxury level pinball pricing feels bubblish. You know? The sky isn't falling or anything, but it feels like $6500 is becoming the new baseline, and the LE ceiling just keeps raising. What's the high end LE JJP stuff cost? I want to say $9,000 is that right? Stern approaching that on this yet? Are the 30 Super LEs really going to be Jpop priced?

What's the street price on a Ghostbusters Pro, anyone mind sharing? I feel like I've heard $5400, can anyone verify my number? No special pickup deals, normal people shipped to your door price. I don't think this Batman thing is the death of Pros. I'd be surprised if Aerosmith didn't have a Pro model, with color LCD. Think the price will stay stable? Or will it go up a couple hundred?

I spent $7200 on my Metallica LE (HUO) I don't want to be a hypocrite. Spend the money if you want it! You only live once, enjoy it if you have the means. But I don't think I feel like repeating that stunt, it's reached a level where it's feeling ridiculous, I can do a lot of other things with that money. Maybe I'm alone in that, and people are down to just keep opening their wallets. How long will that last if prices keep creeping up?

I hope the game looks great. Buy Alien first, and then go get one if it's great. Maybe this Super LE stuff is a one off thing, 30th anniversary. Just starting to feel a little crazy town.

#652 4 years ago

Sorry, didn't mean to essay, pent up pinball angst.

#674 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You can say "buy Alien" in so many fewer words next time.

It's no wonder anyone involved with the industry leaves Pinside. Buy Batman, don't buy Alien, does anyone not know Alien is being built and that I'm involved? I thought maybe insight on things like working on an LCD game would be helpful from someone who is actually doing it, and not just guessing and talking out of his ass.

But if it's just going to generate whining I can find other uses for my time.

#680 4 years ago
Quoted from Wizcat:

Thread derail, but are you doing the on screen animations too now Aurich? Sorry if this is old news, but first I'm hearing about it!

No, we have an animator that I'm working with, who's also a friend of mine.

I had the impression you were hired for playfield and cabinet art, but you're a permanent employee now, and doing animations too? Cool

No, the opposite, I'm not an employee and I'm done after this game. This is still just a hobby thing for me, and I need to pull back from this being too much like a second job. After Alien I'm back to my personal projects when it comes to pinball.

3 weeks later
#2790 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I will/ have bought other pins from him in the past, can't imagine he would risk future business over 2k

From what I've heard about distributor margins you'd have to buy quite a few pins from him in the future to make up that 2k difference. Seems like a pretty cut throat business. Not saying they'd leave you high and dry, just saying, that would be a lot for them to eat to keep your business.

#2994 4 years ago

Ed is one of the nicest pinballers around. His posts here are well thought out, and he's always trying to broker peace or get people to agree to see things differently. We could use more of that. (I'm as guilty as anyone of going off the rails sometimes.) You might not know his pinside name, but you've definitely read his posts.

He picks up pins while he's touring, what a great way to find games across the country. They get tucked in under the bus. That's rad.

I don't really dig soft rock, or alternative, or whatever genre they play, but who cares? I like trap rap and death metal, plenty of people here probably hate both. I thought the Silver Ball song was catchy and well done, again, it's just not really my kind of music, but I could appreciate it. And more importantly, they filmed the video in his game room and probably exposed a bunch of people to a really nice pinball collection. That's a baller move for the hobby.

They're playing at Stern's party. I won't be there, didn't really feel like many people would want me there, but you should introduce yourself if you see him. I know I will if I do elsewhere at Expo, we've only emailed. I'd be glad to shake his hand. But obviously he's got a relationship with Stern now. Big deal, they let all kinds of "friends of the factory" in. Jack Danger doesn't work for then either. So the guy headlining their party who's a big pinball fan is in town, and they show him some whitewoods and do a little PR (that's obviously working).

Be nice to the nice guys.

#3043 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Why should he, or anyone else for that matter, just let this go?
It's freaking insanity and should be (perhaps repeatedly) called out as such (in my opinion).

That's this forum in a nutshell. Already people are trying to shout down the Jpop critics, just like the first time. History showed who was right on that one.

#3065 4 years ago

Edit: n/m I posted about Jpop stuff in reply to Rob, but this is the Batman thread, no need to derail, so removing it.

#3171 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

if JJP just follows Stern and raises the price of JJP #3 by more than $500.00 compared to Hobbit, it ain't going to go over well

Speaking as a buyer of pinballs, Hobbit is already at least $500 more than I'm willing to spend on a game. Any game, from any manufacturer. If they tack another $500 it won't change anything for me, but I wonder where other people's personal lines are. At some point it's just too much right?

#3175 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

No personal line but to me, it's important to get value in the form of stuff in the game. For example, though expensive, I think WOZ is a good value and Hobbit is an okay values when compared to the other new games/price available.

That makes perfect sense to me, I get where you're coming from. But for me the key word is "game". I buy pins to play them. And after a certain price point it's just too much money for a game. I can spend it on other things to have fun with instead. Like cheaper pins! Or I'll pick up some more candy cabs and a bunch of PCBs. Or upgrade my gaming PC. Or remodel the bathroom, I dunno, it just becomes too much money to be worth any game.

#3235 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

You are incorrect sir. See comments from the artist, Chris Franchi, from his facebook page.

Cool, thanks for posting that, very interesting.

You know me, I love a good round of critical thinking over art and design, but maybe wait until the whole thing is revealed? If you don't like it after the reveal then say so. But without seeing it all I dunno how you can come to an opinion. You're not buying a poster, you're buying a game, see how it all fits together.

This is Stern's own fault for posting teases I guess, but still.

#3299 4 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

The composition of that ad is way off. Why does she have a pistol in her right hand and one in her right holster?!
Also I hate the outline.

Not to mention that ad was clearly not kept in the goodie bag, look at the wear at the edges.

#3458 4 years ago
Quoted from ViolinSteve:

If there is a Thursday evening Twin Peaks party for Heighway, it will likely be like last year, where the front party room of Twin Peaks was reserved. It's a short walk across the parking lot from the hotel. And yes, it will conflict with the 8pm JJP seminar/reveal. It stinks that everyone has conflicting parties/reveals/whatever scheduled at the same time as other manufacturers. I want it all. I don't want to have to choose.

If you imagine what the politics behind the scenes at Expo are like with the various manufacturers and their size and clout you're probably imagining things exactly right. I agree, it sucks to have to choose, it's beyond stupid.

And yes, we know JJP's event is the same night as the Alien party at Twin Peaks, if you want to go to the JJP thing and then the party after I'm sure that will work fine.

#3536 4 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Who else besides me is on the BAN list?

The usual Facebook ban list? Or did they actually ban you from the party?

#3538 4 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Adam West charges between 20k and 30k to attend a show(there is a website that tracks what stars charge for appearances)

Damn. That's a pretty sweet hourly rate!

#3581 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett: has these, but seem to be high priced. Are there better prices elsewhere?

Hot Toys are high priced, no getting around that. Pay or or pass. Personally I recommend pass, because I've seen how people get addicted and that ain't cheap.

#3623 4 years ago

Man, this relentless drip is punishing, I'm already tired of the theme and I haven't even seen it. I can only imagine how Alien pre-order people have felt, like 20x worse. Dropping games as pure surprises is definitely the way to go.

#3661 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I just posted on their site to see if they could provide clarity....

Enjoy your ban.

#3836 4 years ago

Yes, yes, you play the game, not the LCD screen. But you can do things with an LCD screen you can't with a DMD, and it opens more possibilities for new rules and new ideas. And pinball could use those things frankly.

Doesn't mean you can't make a great game with just numeric displays, because of course you can. But if you want more depth and possibilities for a more expansive play experience (something key for home ownership) the LCD will take you further.

#3942 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Best pinmat I have, btw:

Really ties the room together.

#4762 4 years ago
Quoted from ATLpb:

The armor also isn't exactly standard LE as it is wing themed and speckled. Isn't the GBLE slimer armor simply green with lollipops?

ACDC LE armor. Star Trek LE armor. Fancy cutouts aren't a new thing.

What was impressive was the decals on the Super LE. Put those on a game that isn't a ridiculous $15k Stern!

#4772 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Were the decals made out of the foil type material that imve had?

No, it was a layered effect, with some parts shiny and some parts more matte. It was really slick, I give Stern props for it. Would I pay $15k to get those decals? lol hell no. But it did look bad ass.

#4774 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

This standard of finish should really be in the regular "beggars" LE for the price they're asking.

The thing that struck me as odd was the LE has the same boring blank speaker panel the Pro, I mean, Premium has. The SUPER LE speaker panel was blinged out nicely, made the LE look plain.

Honestly I thought they all looked pretty slick, I'm not trash talking them at all. But the Premium has the "Pro" black armor, and the three in a row really did look like Pro/Prem/LE.

#4814 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

One could argue that the game is sparse enough that that they had to remove armor and such because there's not much left to strip from the game...that game is thin.

The new spinning toy seems interesting, but since they wouldn't let anyone play it and didn't have a video who knows.

Honestly I'm just grateful Stern made the reveal so blah, it helped Alien out.

#4819 4 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

So he was kicked out of the Stern tour and the party? Seems crazy and strange to me. Pinball News is highly regarded within the industry. Pretty lame if that's true. Stern shouldn't be afraid to answer a few questions.


Unfortunately, because we had the temerity to question the $15,000 price tag for the new Batman 66 game, Pinball News was banned from the Stern factory.

While the JJP Deep Dive event was taking place, Stern Pinball were holding their 30th Anniversary Party at the Viper Alley concert venue in Lincolnshire. Sadly, despite purchasing a $30 ticket, Pinball News was banned from the party by Stern Pinball for suggesting their $15,000 Batman 66 Super Limited Edition machine might be a little overpriced.

#4834 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

The playfield art IS hand drawn. It's hard to tell from the photos, because it's done in a photo-realistic style.

It is and it isn't. The whole game's package is put together in Photoshop with a collage style, but it uses hand drawn art as the source.

I don't care, I thought it looked good. I'm just saying that we should probably save that terminology for something like Aerosmith or Metallica, where Donny actually hand drew the entire layout. Just so that the term doesn't start to lose meaning.

Just compare the Premium and LE translites for instance. Look good, but they're the same art just with the collage rearranged and tilted, and the LE has Batgirl and the Premium doesn't as they moved the Batmobile around. (Going from memory here, pretty sure that's right.)

#4848 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i'm looking at the SLE and wondering how much does it cost stern to built the game? 4-5k?

That's the price just for the decals!

#4879 4 years ago

I hadn't seen it even rotate, so thanks for the video. But I'd prefer to see gameplay.

#4963 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I thought the LE and SLE had the same armor? with the webbing and flake powdercoat?

Same shape, same powdercoat, but the SLE is pinstriped, has the red line outlining the shape.

Edit: Beaten to it, but at least I wasn't sitting there trying to peel off the pinstriping.

#4998 4 years ago

Wait, the B66 Premium is $1000 more than what I paid for my NIB Stark Trek Premium and doesn't even come with a shaker? These prices are ridiculous.

Does it come with lube or do you have to buy your own for that too?

#5045 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

How much more did you think Stern was going to charge once they implemented the LCD screen?
I figured it would be somewhere between $800-$1200, and it looks like they came in right in the middle.

Wow, nope, definitely not. Why would you pay that much more for a part that's cheaper than a DMD? I'm hearing $200-500 increase (from "normal" not B66) for Aerosmith. People will swallow that I guess if the Pro doesn't feel horribly cheaped out.

#5052 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You are smarter than this, so I'm not going to waste my time spelling it out for you since you are obviously being deliberately obtuse.


I don't think I'm being deliberately obtuse, no. You're the one saying you'd expect to pay up to $1200 more just to switch to an LCD. That's ridiculous.

If anyone here thinks they have more experience developing content for a high rez LCD display on a pinball then I do I'll say "Hi JP, you're doing great work!"

I understand the costs to develop, I understand the costs to buy, and none of it justifies the kind of price increase you're talking about. If you think "it's new and shiny so they can just upcharage whatever they want" then okay, but I don't think that accounts for the realities of the market. More than $1000 price increase on a Pro? Not gonna fly.

Luckily what I'm hearing doesn't match your numbers, so we'll see how it all comes out in the wash on Aerosmith.

#5055 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the LE/Premium price point, not the pro.
And yes, part of it most certainly is the "new and shiny" and "new fangled" LCD screen that many people on this site have been *begging* Stern for for years, so obviously there is going to be increased desire/demand.
Your original post didn't say a single word about "experience developing content for a high rez LCD display" and you only referenced the actual cost of the LCD screen, which is precisely why I said you were being obtuse. But you already know that.

Well there are obviously three costs, right?

There's pure BOM. And LCD is cheaper than DMD, hands down. You save costs with the switch.

There's cost to develop the hardware/software. Spike 2.0 or whatever it is. That's a long term sunk cost that you amortize over several titles.

Then there's the cost to develop the graphics for every game for the display. And that's a really wide spectrum of possibilities. Obviously if you're trying to make it look like a AAA modern video game for instance that's gonna cost you. On the other side of the spectrum if you are doing a license that comes with video assets, say Iron Man or Spider-Man (OG) etc then it's actually easier than dealing with dots.

The truth is that doing "true" dots is hard. It's an art to work personality and animation into 128x32 pixels and all in grey(red)scale. Working at high rez is often just much easier. Less compromise, more 'cheats'.

Batman66 hasn't really been revealed yet, the LCD content at Expo was really limited during the attract mode. And we haven't seen Aerosmith yet. I can't make any educated responses to what they're doing.

But I know quite a bit now about what goes on behind the scenes for the development process. And I just want to use that experience to tell people "don't get fooled", meaning great, everyone is on LCD now, I think that's a good thing, but don't just open your wallet for it. Make them earn it. Any company, Stern, JJP, Heighway, whoever. Don't shell out another $1000 just because you've got some color now. Don't compare the costs to adding a ColorDMD. Look at the value proposition.

#5056 4 years ago
Quoted from hawkmoon:

As far as I'vs heard,there will not be a PRO Model of this pin!!

There won't be, Rob and I are spit balling about the future.

#5060 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I just read that thread about high pinball prices being bad for pinball, and it seems that perhaps we will have more people keeping their word about not buying at these ridiculous prices.

It's easy to keep my word, that's for sure. When the "cheap" version is $8k and missing features (pick a company, more than one that's true for!) it's not exactly a struggle to walk away.

If I really wanted it I could afford it, but I'm not made of money, that's a genuine cost for me. I have to weigh that against what else I could spend that kind of cash on, including lots of great pins for a lot less.

#5193 4 years ago

I consider myself very fortunate. I don't consider myself lucky.

If I look back at my career, my successes, and how I got to where I am I can trace it all to the work I put in. The energy I put out. Nothing fell in my lap. Opportunities arose because I put myself into position to be there for them. I believe in making your own luck.

Part of being successful in what I do is that I have 'play money' that I can spend on toys. I drive a nice car, because I decided to splurge on one. I buy pins when they make me happy.

But I'm not made of money, I work for it, and it's not unlimited. Dropping $9k on something isn't casual for me, I need to weigh that. And the scales just don't balance for a $9k game. Who cares what the theme is? Still nine thousand dollars for a pinball game like any other pinball game. Another LCD or another magnet or whatever, great, but it doesn't mean the values suddenly balance.

New games are exciting to talk about, it's a lot of what we do here, because how many times can you tell everyone how great Flash Gordon is or whatever. New is fun. But the fun is vanishing for me. If this relentless price increase trend keeps marching I'm gonna bail on buying any of them. And the greedy companies can either survive off rich dudes or wonder where they f**ked up.

#5196 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I see a lot of people upset at game prices. I'm certainly in that camp - I can't even afford used games anymore, let alone new ones.
However, from a manufacturing standpoint, selling fewer high priced items is a lot easier than selling a lot of lower priced one. Less parts on hand, less time to build, less after sales support. Easier to run off 200 games than 2,000.

That logic works fine for small, boutique shops. Once you're larger, Stern sized for instance, you've got to feed the beast and keep the line running. That's why Stern loves to say they're not a pinball company, they're a manufacturer. They make shit. Assembly line, factory, boom boom boom.

200 games doesn't keep the line running, and it doesn't justify the rent etc on the square footage.

Aerosmith will supposedly be a $200-500 increase from the old prices, and have a Pro. Batman66 is obviously overpriced because of the Kamikow/studio whatever deal.

I suspect Premium/LE buyers haven't hit their real pain point quite yet. But Pro buyers, how much more increases are they willing to soak up? The days of sub $5k games are over. When do you bail? Is $5500 too much?

#5369 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

SLE also has red edge glow plastic protectors on slings and inlanes. They are supposed to be avail for purchase via stern for LE and premium

Are they billing them as protectors? I could be remembering wrong, but when I looked at the game at expo they looked like they were the same size as the plastics, so you got a stacked effect, but not the extended edge protecting effect like ones from Pinbits.

3 weeks later
#5770 4 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

We'll have to see if they started with all-new rules or just appropriated the BDK rules, too.

I think the game is too expensive for what you get, but the code won't be one of the reasons. Lyman is doing all new rules, not a BDK rehash.

Source: talked to the man himself in person about it at Expo. Doubt he'd mind me sharing that.

#5773 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Come on Aurich, people don't believe what Gomez and Lyman say, they like to make up their own facts.

Damn you post-truth era!

#5792 4 years ago
Quoted from DJNOEL30:

Did anyone skip the Nov 4th $2000 deposit deadline and get a pay in full by Dec 1st to confirm your SLE email from Stern today??? I just got one, looks like I still have the honor and privilege to drop 15k if I want haha..

Without seeing even a second of gameplay? That's effing ridiculous. Man, we're just a dumb wallet now to these companies, open up.

#5944 4 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

I specifically asked the guy at the kapow booth at expo

There were people at that booth? I never saw anyone attending the games, they just sat there behind the velvet rope.

I was actually surprised how low key the whole Stern presence was.

1 week later
#6071 3 years ago

No one has played this game, so anyone telling you how it's going to play is full of shit.

#6088 3 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Ed Robertson played it, and he talked about it on one of the recent Buffalo Pinball podcasts (on the STLE podcast recorded at his house). He said it was a blast to play.

Cool, I like Ed, but he's not posting in this thread, so I'm gonna stick with my post being accurate still.

#6110 3 years ago

Stern are cowards for banning Martin.

Ed isn't a coward. He'd say something if he wanted to say it.

#6243 3 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Pretty sure this isnt even an issue...completely uninforceable and irrelevant...

I'd never buy a Super LE, the whole idea is beyond stupid to me. But if I did I'd absolutely ignore that clause. WTF is Stern going to do? Sue? Try and black ball a huge customer? It's just dumb.

I think people should spend their money however they want. If it's not stupid to you then I wish you nothing but happiness with it.

If you think no gameplay video is dumb don't give them money. Paying them and then complaining on a forum is pointless. Money talks.

#6280 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

And maybe it's just the pictures, but it all looks oversaturated. Batman '66 is colorful, but it seems like it's overly bright. I would need to see that in person, however. Some games look way different in person than they do in pictures.

Nah, it looks that way in person too.

#6334 3 years ago
Quoted from pauloz:

Problem with that approach is you mostly miss out on the LE,s
If I really like a theme, I'm happy to get the LE when I can and code can come later.

I have a Metallica LE. Didn't buy it until after the legit code dropped. It's not that hard, it just requires something few have here, called patience.

#6406 3 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Wow. Tidbits of info and some amazing photos of the game but holy sheep shat! Some people on here need to get over themselves.
I get that not everyone is thrilled about this pin, or maybe the pricing, or whatever. That's fine. Everyone's entitled to an opinion.
Thinking that your opinion is worthy of dominating a 128 page thread, droning on and on, spewing hate, in a thread that's celebrating this pin? It's past sad, all the way through pathetic. Possibly nearing "time to seek help".

It's a f—ing forum, we're here to talk about shit. Everyone who's all worried about the "noise" or whatever is the one that needs to get over it. When there's a video or something there will be like 4 new threads in an hour, chill out.

I swear the whining about the whining is almost the worst, only thing more stupid is this post, that's whining about the whining about the whining.

#6416 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not when you have a single person virtually taking over the entire thread with his incessant bashing, repeating the same thing over and over and over and over again. 90 posts by someone who has zero interest in ever buying the pin that is the subject of the thread. Do people have a right to give their opinions even if they aren't a buyer? Of course! I am the first one to defend that. But 90 posts? Ridiculous.
But I guess we shouldn't be surprised that you would defend that kind of behavior given what you did with the artwork in the GOT thread.

So use the ignore button you big baby.

#6547 3 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Yes, the decals on the SLE are embossed. You can feel the textures of the images as you run your finger down them. They really pop and were the nicest decals I have ever seen on a pinball.

Yeah, they're not worth the extra money by a longshot, but it was super slick.

#6714 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Wow, the foil cab art is killer!

You have no idea Ice, you really have to see it in person. Credit where credit is due, it looks killer.

#6715 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

It does look cool but i still perfer custom dots with color dmd as it seems to go with the gameplay better compared to these random clips....

I get where you're coming from, but do you really think this theme would look better with red LED dots? I sure don't. Dots had a long, good run, I still love them, but I think it's time to move on.

This is Stern's first attempt with an LCD, maybe it's not mind blowing, but give it some time. T2 didn't exactly have amazing dots either.

#6719 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Didnt say i like red dots .....i like stuff like twd and met but with color dmd ... i guess im not a fan of clips like this basically and i like custom animation that fits the gameplay more.

Metallica has imho some of the best dots ever done. But even in color I can't see them doing justice here. Purple blob for Penguin? Eh.

I think you're more responding to the LCD being kind of dull, just a TV playing back clips isn't that exciting. Not much energy or custom editing etc. But I don't think that's an indictment of the LCD, just the choices.

It's early still, maybe it will get better. Or, it's Stern, maybe it won't change at all and you'll be begging for code changes for years to come.

Either way I think the transition to LCD was smart.

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