(Topic ID: 167575)

Batman 66 by Stern new info


By GAP

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Bamatami
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26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 7100 posts in this topic. You are on page 75 of 142.
#3701 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Shouldn't there be only 30 people in the world who care... if that's really what's happening?
It never ceases to amaze me how much energy people have to invest in *saving* other people... who may not even care.

Just an opinion. No need to save anyone.

Welcome to the Internet.

#3702 3 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

Still waiting on your point.

Gary said in the latest interview that the Super LE is loaded with a topper and better sound system.

All we know, is you get a topper and better sound for $5,000 extra.

#3703 3 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

They might also know that Pat's new game is going......to......kick.....ASS!

If that was the case, the intelligent business decision for Stern would be to make a killer pin, and undercut the opposition, kill their sales and hopefully destroy their company.

Pricing your pin far more expensive than the oppositions (which some perceive to be a better presented product) only drives customers to buy the oppositions products.

Sort of Business 101 really ...

rd

#3704 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

It seems to me Stern is trying to milk as much cash as they can, as quickly as they can, as if the end of the world was in sight,

Well, a lot of us believe the end of the financial world is coming (ie the next recession is just around the corner) so another way to look at it is that they are increasing the paper profitability of the company, in preparation for sale or floating it on the stock market.

If you want to cash out of a business, the crazy, heady days of 2016 are a really good time to do so.

Get in and cash out before the recession, because when the recession hits, turnover and profits will take a dive, and nobody wants to buy retail or manufacturing in a recession.

I've just sold some of my assets at the top of the market ... no doubt I will be able to buy them back at a good discount in about 2 years

rd

#3705 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

- did I forget something?

Full Throttle. Unsubstantiated but I heard they only sold 73 of those.

#3706 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Full Throttle. Unsubstantiated but I heard they only sold like 73 of those.

Oops! Original post edited.

15
#3707 3 years ago

This is such a money grab... it makes me want to puke. Forced and faked collectibility with pure greed as the cherry on top.

True rarity is a beautiful thing... something that's made rare by the passing of time or unfortunate / unforseen circumstances.

But this Stern money grab is just pathetic. I hope hobbyists let Stern know by keeping their wallets closed.

#lame

#3708 3 years ago

It's way beyond just 30 people that should care.

I'm part of the 240 LE crowd, and I care. It's a pattern of deception and questionable business practices.

I have bent over backwards to defend Stern and their right to do whatever the hell they want to do.

I mock myself for being one of the "dummies" that go along with paying the extra "flipper ransom".

I justify it this time because I love the theme, it has an LCD, they promise to "go the extra mile" and it has Lyman working on it.

That said, I'm getting tired of the BS, TWD tactic and now this.

It has lessened my enthusiasm for this pin, so we will see this weekend.

Going forward I had decided I'm out on Star Wars and anything else they do NIB in the near future and will only consider the secondary market.

-21
#3709 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's way beyond just 30 people that should care.
I'm part of the 240 LE crowd, and I care. It's a pattern of deception and questionable business practices.
I have bent over backwards to defend Stern and their right to do whatever the hell they want to do.
I mock myself for being one of the "dummies" that go along with paying the extra "flipper ransom".
I justify it this time because I love the theme, it has an LCD, they promise to "go the extra mile" and it has Lyman working on it.
That said, I'm getting tired of the BS, TWD tactic and now this.
It has lessened my enthusiasm for this pin, so we will see this weekend.
Going forward I had decided I'm out on Star Wars and anything else they do NIB in the near future and will only consider the secondary market.

So sad you've joined to the naysayers....

-3
#3710 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Gary said in the latest interview that the Super LE is loaded with a topper and better sound system.
All we know, is you get a topper and better sound for $5,000 extra.

I was just stating some facts....you're assigning value to it.

#3711 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

But this Stern money grab is just pathetic. I hope hobbyists let Stern know but keeping their wallets closed.
#lame

I tried to defend it at first, now I can't.

This expo is going to set the stage in many ways for the future of pinball.

JJP #3 might be a huge game changer.

And the rumors floating around about Heighway and them under serious financial stress are coming from where? Maybe others are fearful of another great competitor offering MORE for LESS $$.

#3712 3 years ago

I am annoyed by this SLE development as well. it is souring me on the whole game.

#3713 3 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

So sad you've joined to the naysayers....

So happy Stern can still count on you.

-18
#3714 3 years ago

Sad to see people with their panties in a bunch over an "SLE".

Jesus, people....it's just a pinball game.

You don't like it, don't buy.

But what ever you do.............STOP WHINING!

#3715 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Well, a lot of us believe the end of the financial world is coming (ie the next recession is just around the corner) so another way to look at it is that they are increasing the paper profitability of the company, in preparation for sale or floating it on the stock market.

Makes sense to me.

#3716 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

So happy Stern can still count on you.

Why wouldn't they? Just like Nixon, they haven't done anything to me.

#3717 3 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

So sad you've joined to the naysayers....

I haven't canceled my order yet, I'm waiting to see how the weekend plays out. I hope its great, I want it despite the pure "money grab".

But that may change this weekend.

#3718 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I haven't canceled my order yet, I'm waiting to see how the weekend plays out. I hope its great, I want it despite the pure "money grab".
But that may change this weekend.

Which model are you down for?

-4
#3720 3 years ago

Calm down, hipster.

-13
#3721 3 years ago

I just don't understand the anti-SLE hype.

It you don't like it, don't buy it.

Simple.

But for some...it means BITCH on Pinside constantly.

#3722 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Shouldn't there be only 30 people in the world who care... if that's really what's happening?
It never ceases to amaze me how much energy people have to invest in *saving* other people... who may not even care.
It sounds to me like this other group is 'yet another edition' of the game. Not necessarily just expanding the 30...

Sure, the 30 people should feel completely screwed. Meanwhile it just reaffirms my opinion that Stern is treating its customers with arrogance and is only interested in milking them for every dollar possible. With every dick move like this it makes me want to throw more money at Sterns opposition.

IMG_5815 (resized).JPG

#3723 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Well, a lot of us believe the end of the financial world is coming (ie the next recession is just around the corner) so another way to look at it is that they are increasing the paper profitability of the company, in preparation for sale or floating it on the stock market. rd

It would not surprise me at all if they are prepping to sell off the company. Seems like a good time to do it, use GB sales and BM66 to show performance and order book. They are not stupid and they now competition is coming so cash out while the going is good.

#3724 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Interesting claim. Let's try to get an estimate of pins actually shipped by competitors since 2014
- 3000 WoZ ?
- a few hundreds hobbits
- 150 AMH
- 150 Rob Zombie (by the end of 2016)
- 50 TBL so far
- 4 Wooly, a few Nemos...
- did I forget something? Yes ! Full throttle (thanks Kim): say 100 by the end of the year?
(edit: MMr! But assembled in the Stern factory, right?)
Say 4,000 pins in total? Assuming this figure represents 2% of the market, it means 200,000 pins were sold in 3 years. Not a chance.

It was either Gomez or Gary that said it. And was about a year ago.
Doesn't really matter as the latest interview opened up with describing stern as 'the only true pinball manufacturer'

#3725 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Shouldn't there be only 30 people in the world who care... if that's really what's happening?
It never ceases to amaze me how much energy people have to invest in *saving* other people... who may not even care.
.

#3726 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Sure, the 30 people should feel completely screwed. Meanwhile it just reaffirms my opinion that Stern is treating its customers with arrogance and is only interested in milking them for every dollar possible. With every dick move like this it makes me want to throw more money at Sterns opposition.

I'm sure after a year or two... people will care as much as AC/DC owners care about Luci and it ruining things for them as everyone screamed it was doing at the time.

I just don't get why people are so wound up about a move that doesn't actually impact them personally at all.. but instead just want to be wound up over the company. Best thing to do is simply stop buying 'fake' limited stuff.

#3727 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Going forward I had decided I'm out on Star Wars and anything else they do NIB in the near future and will only consider the secondary market.

The house of common sense is always open and welcoming

The buying market has become about 'not missing out' vs 'buying great games'. There are plenty of games on the resale market, no need to be the first guy to have one.. or buying for fear of not getting one, etc.

#3728 3 years ago

Like I have always said, Mad Gaz dont give a fuck.. This bullshit shit pro/prem/le/sle is only for cash.. NOTHING MORE. Furthermore raising the bar from 30 to 80 CLEARLY shows that he does not favor the collector. Players are getting screwed playing pros on site given they are missing out on Prem/Le features, operators are getting dicked by lack of reliable games and collectors.. well.. they are also getting screwed by vault games.. I am hoping that B66 turns out to be something that advances pinball in the right direction but JJP#3 imo will shit on anything ever made imo.

#3729 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It has lessened my enthusiasm for this pin, so we will see this weekend.
Going forward I had decided I'm out on Star Wars and anything else they do NIB in the near future and will only consider the secondary market.

Wow Ice, if they're turning off buyers like you then they really need to question their marketing tactics.

13
#3730 3 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

I just don't understand the anti-SLE hype.
It you don't like it, don't buy it.
Simple.
But for some...it means BITCH on Pinside constantly.

I don't understand the shrugging it off. They announced a special version of the game limited to only 30 units with a gaudy outlandish price of $15k! Apparently, at least 80 people sent in a video clambering and begging for the right to throw their money at this game. Stern's eyes light up with $$$$ like you see in cartoons and all of a sudden there are 80 SLEs?? I bet Gary turned to George and said "we REALLY underestimated the number of suckers in this hobby, bwaaaahahahahaha! Let's triple the number to 90!". Then George said, "no Gary, we don't want to look greedy. Let's only go to 80." Is this really true?? There can't be 80 of these now, right? What a dick move. Are people just going to shrug their shoulders and pay up? That is crazy! This is a crazy hobby.

#3731 3 years ago

To be clear: the game, concept, and price are cool. If people buy, so be it. Changing the terms of the deal is what is really, REALLY weak.

#3732 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I just don't get why people are so wound up about a move that doesn't actually impact them personally at all.. but instead just want to be wound up over the company. Best thing to do is simply stop buying 'fake' limited stuff.

Well it could affect people not into this game in the future. Pricing, customer service, game quality. These are things people will worry about now because if they decide they would like one of Stern's games (or anyone else's games), they would like these problems to be solved. While pinside may not be the majority of buyers it is the most vocal group and pin makers have shown that they listen to our opinions for better or worse. This is a forum where the activity is discussing pinball related topics so there should be varying opinions.

It's the anti-bitching bitching like Air Pinball or your posts today that I find amusing.

15
#3733 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Wow Ice, if they're turning off buyers like you then they really need to question their marketing tactics.

It's just a combination of a couple of things.

Stern announces an exciting 30th yr anniversary pin and a theme I really love.

The first story was hey, we are still putting the BOM together and we aren't sure how much it will cost but we need you to put your deposit down to lock in the game. Ok, I went for it knowing full well it wasn't the smartest thing in the world to do.

As we rush to jump in, make videos to get a chance to buy an SLE, we are told the LE will come in at around "$8500 or so"

They lock in the deposits, gather all of the "indications of interest" and then decide to price it at $9500. Ok, I'm still in, clearly they want to take out the flipper and capture ALL of the profit. I get it, grab my ankles and assume the position and go with it. Still excited about the pin.

Then we start to hear "rumors" floating around about how much trouble Heighway is in and no way should anyone send any $$ to them. Seems like dirty sleazy BS to me.

And now we get the new Gary revelation, another 50 SLE's, I could care less about who or why anybody wants to drop $15k on another 50 pins but to me its that combined with Heighway and TWD no premium BS that is disappointing but i guess par for the course.

They might have F ed themselves this time. They did with the SM VE pricing.

If BM66 doesn't deliver at a time when Alien and Lawlor are coming out, where you get MORE for your $$$, then yeah, they have F ed up.

I love my Sterns pins, but "fickle" is my new middle name.

12
#3734 3 years ago

When Iceman changes sides like this, Stern should listen.

Seems like they have, Air_Pinball is replying on their behalf already

-3
#3735 3 years ago

Most of the people whining here aren't even getting an SLE - this place is nuts lol - If those that thought they where part of the 30 now can get out of if knowing that its 80. I've got an LE on order (and paid the deposit) if they change the numbers on that i'll be out.

Looking at Stern's behavior I'd say they are doing everything they can to bring cash in which worries me a little...

Neil.

#3736 3 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

Calm down, hipster.

Ahh Kirk the namecaller... shoo!

#3737 3 years ago

So this is post no. 3737. I dropped in to get some infos, since - as far as I heard/read - there is a launch party this week. But it seems beside the flyer and some controversy about the LE / Super LE topic, no info at all at this time. And yes the LE / Super LE thing is crazy

Okay - I'll be back on Friday 8 pm... more infos should come up then.

#3738 3 years ago
Quoted from frg:

no info at all at this time

but... ahh nevermind...

#3739 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I am annoyed by this SLE development as well. it is souring me on the whole game.

The only way any of this changes is if consumers say "no." And "no" means that they don't spend.

Complaining about it and then forking over money has absolutely zero impact...in fact, it has the opposite effect: it validates the behavior and price points of the manufacturer.

#3740 3 years ago

The Batman66 is another 'partner' pin, meaning that Stern partnered with Kapow and now has an obligation as a partner to maximize sales. If you look at Mustang-Ford helped Stern with an initial investment for development, Pabst also ponied up some cash and now Kapow. Are these partnerships part of the problem? The pros and cons of partnerships come into play and Kapow is trying to maximize their potential sales just like their slot-machine segment. These partnerships may help with Sterns development cost but may hamper the image of a company who will be portrayed as a sell out and not staying true to their core values. It is a fine line when trying to maximize profits while trying to stay true to your core.

#3741 3 years ago

A flyer was released and posted announcing 30 SLE's @ $15k, an outrageous figure compared to the past 30 years of manufacturing pinball. Stern's Facebook confirmed 30 games on a number of occasions. During a recent interview Gary mentions there are now 30 + 50 SLE's. 80 games @ $15k - it is easy to see SLE buyers were screwed. However, the impact to LE and Premium buyers is likely neutral. Manufacturing more SLE's that are priced at the top end helps hold the value of the LE and Premium games. It should also exert downward pressure on the value of the SLE and this should slowly erode much of the 5k "premium" over the LE model.

Changing the number of SLE's while orders are active and non-refundable deposits are collected is dirty pool. Stern's actions have tarnished this game and I will be steering clear of BM66. I won't be considering a premium purchase any longer because these shenanigans have created a bad taste in my mouth that won't easily rinse away.

#3742 3 years ago

have you guys seen this?

#3743 3 years ago

I'm thrilled to be giving my money to Spooky this year.

#3744 3 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

The Batman66 is another 'partner' pin, meaning that Stern partnered with Kapow and now has an obligation as a partner to maximize sales. If you look at Mustang-Ford helped Stern with an initial investment for development, Pabst also ponied up some cash and now Kapow. Are these partnerships part of the problem? The pros and cons of partnerships come into play and Kapow is trying to maximize their potential sales just like their slot-machine segment. These partnerships may help with Sterns development cost but may hamper the image of a company who will be portrayed as a sell out and not staying true to their core values. It is a fine line when trying to maximize profits while trying to stay true to your core.

The thing I don't like about this theory is that it completely tries to take Stern off the hook. "Hey, it wasn't us, the partner made us hose you".

They simply saw more demand for the high end than they thought they would, and changed the number based on that demand. They did a "soft" release with minimal information, and are calculating numbers from the real information they got back. That tactic will still sell more games in the short run, even if it ticks off their core base.

11
#3745 3 years ago

I'm just curious here... but there are thousands of pages on this forum with collectors stomping their feet and pitch forks complaining about all of the past pre-order fiascos. JJP. Zidware. Kevin Kulek.... "never again!" is the chorus. "Lawsuits!" "Guard your money!"

Yet, once again, folks are forking over their money and mentally buying-in on a game they (1) have NEVER seen and (2) know is being manufactured by a company that has been shipping very expensive games with quality control issues and identified defects (with, mind you, no response to the problem). And to add to that...they have committed non-refundable pre-order place holders for a game that has turned out to cost way more than past games...AND....now we find out they are changing the numbers of its limited nature.

And these folks are actually surprised that the stakes of the game are changing and it's not shifting in favor of the collectors?

Seriously?

Part of me feels like there's hardly any grounds for people that are "in" on Batman66 to be upset... the problem is that they are active and willing participants as part of the problem. The history is there folks. Plain and simple to see. This industry knows that a huge portion of its home customer base has a completely irrational Fear of Missing Out that overrides any commonsensical thinking... it has you by the balls. You know it. It knows it... yet people are complaining??

#3746 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

The thing I don't like about this theory is that it completely tries to take Stern off the hook. "Hey, it wasn't us, the partner made us hose you".

No not an excuse by any means but just stating the circumstances involved. Time will tell if these partnerships are lucrative for Stern. I cant imagine that Mustang did that well, and I cant see Stern selling very many of the Pabst machines either. Would Stern have done better if they just did a Batman VE with slight variations priced competitively without a partner or will they rake in the cash selling boutique pins with a partner? One partnership that may be working is producing for PPS. The added production lines seem to help with the overhead cost of their new building and with PPS about to announce AFM the lines will continue to flow.

#3747 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

quality control issues and identified defects (with, mind you, no response to the problem).

False. Stern has responded to the issues individually as they have always done. There is no need for them to make a public declaration as outsiders seem to demand.

-16
#3748 3 years ago

It's funny....all the people who downvote my comment about bitching on Pinside are the people who bitch the loudest on Pinside.

Thank you, genuinely from my heart. Thank you for proving my point.

#3749 3 years ago

Hitler video anyone?

-13
#3750 3 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Ahh Kirk the namecaller... shoo!

****YAWN****

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