I'm a sucker for certain themes, The Dark Knight is the only Stern I own, because of the theme. I've fought off so many others, as if they knew what I would want in a theme. Metallica, Mustang (I own 4 - but it's just not great), and so many others. Now I must resist again. Or maybe it'll be somehow better than the other and I'll sell it... in time.

Many of you/us have been predicting the bubble will pop... It's coming folks. How much more $weight$ can the collecting market bare? Can't be much more...

This is what they based the comic book on. The artwork in bayoubilly70's post is from the comic.

Holy crap this thread has some of the best replies I have see on Pinside. Pure gold here. Someone call the Hoffmans and get big red set up!

The game sounds fantastic. I sincerely would like to see one. The timing is about like Hasselhoff's pay per view with the whole PF fiasco.

Stern right now is very lucky they are the only major pinball company right now. If they had any real competition from another major producer then all of their missteps would result in major restructuring. As it is this is the story "The Emperor's New Clothes."

For those history buffs, this has the Ford Edsel written all over it.

After reading through all these posts, in a thread about a new pinball machine release, I feel the need to email Robin, suggesting that Pinside be renamed to PinBitch.com
Most of you guys will be invited to participate, of course.

You miss a few points

- You ignore the need for product differentiation - its not just about BOM costs, but also about supporting your price points and product spread.
- the pro is built on a lower margin than the other games... boosting development costs hurts the lowest margin game the most
- if you think you can convert pro sales into premium... then the pro is leaving money on the table
- if you want to price the games radically different than the old pro price... the easiest way to defeat that backlash is not offer a pro

Stern knows what sells... they've seen their 'loaded' pro models sell great. So what does that tell you? The demand push is for the fuller games, not the stripped out ones. The location games of today are being ran by 'the faithful', not your redemption route operator looking for the cheapest thing around.

Stern can simply be thinking that $6k is a reasonable entry point for its new games and that they can get it. Eliminating a model also reduces overhead significantly.

There are plenty of reasons TO do it.... the question is will the market support the new price point. Stern is in a hell of a lot better position than us to forecast that.

It could be as simple as not every title gets the full range... if you have a premium brand/title... force people to buy up to get it. Maybe you see them alternate...

All we know is, Stern has not been shy with changing the formula in the past... so I don't think we need to be digging in thinking the current model is forever. They can change title to title.. and have.

I think you can take off the knee pads now. Gary says he has had enough.

Yep, big change going with a 50 year old theme vs a 30 year old theme.

This is a special 30th anniversary game, hence pulling out all stops with the video tech with some help from Joe K (and no Pros). The 30 Super LEs will be unobtainium and worth every penny because they will never drop in value. I heard a couple of months ago they would be over $10K. Anyone with the money who says they would not buy one if invited is fooling themselves.

The regular Pro/Premium/LE will only be skipped for this one game.

You misunderstand my point. Someone said the LCD was an excuse to make the Pro go away and to only sell more expensive models. I'm saying that's wrong, and they can easily make a Pro with an LCD as there is literally no cost factor involved with its inclusion. Sure they may raise the price....but its inclusion is a non-issue.

As in the past - Pro/Prem/LE have the same brain, the same display, and the same artists creating the display content.

Yup, I'm really wandering how they are selecting those on the list.

I think you mean "vs. an 11 year old theme". Batman begins came out in 2005.

Probably Gary and his most loyal and important employees. The leftovers would go to top distributors and a few close friends and VIPs. (This is just my guess based on rumors)

How many decades have we heard this Chicken Little stuff?

Only thing that makes it pop: All collectors decide they hate pinball and sell off simultaneously. This will not happen. Collectors generally hold onto their games, and occasionally sell a few - and there are so many new people entering the hobby that those games always get snatched up and the cycle continues. Inventory of classics is low. New games are filling demand.

My distrib already sold out of his B'66 LEs, and we haven't even seen pics of the game! What bubble!?!!

I was talking about their last game.

Highly entrenched monopolies are sometimes undone by their own avarice. In Stern's case, the cost cutting and resulting major problems with their games seems to have reached a watershed moment.

If Lawlor's game is a hit for JJP, Heighway manage to start mass producing Alien(s) this year, CGC get AFMr produced somewhere other than Stern and at a lower price than MMr and DP finally start spitting out more games ... then surely Stern have to be in some serious trouble, given the widely felt misgivings about their current direction and quality?

Then of course there are other x-factors ... next Spooky game will presumably be a bigger run, how will HomePin's Thunderbirds turn out and in what kind of volumes and prices, will TimeShock finally appear next year and how many will be made?

There's never been more choice, and never been so many major issues with the incumbent market leader.

That's a private club and you may or may not be invited......

Sorry, thought you were referring to the movie franchise. Yeah, and one problem with Ghostbusters was it came out two years after the 30th anniversary. Not going to blame Stern for that one, it probably had to do with Sony and their "Reboot" this year.

Edit: God, I just realized, what if Stern decides to do a V.E. based on the 2016 Ghostbusters?!?

It doesn't make sense to me, from a business perspective, to do that. To be blunt, the rich dudes don't buy Pros, and the people who do buy Pros aren't bottomless money pits. There's a point where you say "I can't afford that" or "I cant justify that" or "That's not going to earn fast enough to be worth it".

Or, you push people up to the next price point. If you're paying $5500 and you can get a more fully featured game for $1000 more? And that's where Stern's competition is. Heighway of course, Spooky is that price range, JJP doesn't have anything that low I don't think, but you're creeping closer to them. Dutch Pinball I think is too high for that particular jump. Sure, you might upgrade to a Stern Premium. Or you might say at that price I have choice, let's see what else is out there. And they get Alien instead.

You can't squeeze blood from a stone, that Pro price point only works if it's actually cheaper. IMHO. You lose Pro sales, and some of them don't buy at all, some do convert up to Premium, but some buy competitor's games. That just doesn't feel like a win.

Not as long as all those people keep shooting for the stars in terms of what is the tipping point in what the market will bear.

Spooky is the dark horse IMO.. they are operating as 'the everyman game company' and held back only by their ambition to stick to manageable growth. What happens if the next spooky title were some season'd vet and aimed for a 1500 game run.. that would turn some heads.

Spooky is the only one nipping at Stern's heels IMO.. CGC will just be a drain on the market and Heighway needs to make some desirable games before they become a shaker. Maybe that will come yet.. but Spooky is further along IMO.

Maybe all ghosting photos ..ahem.. ....WHAM...POW... disappear somehow.

Everything in pinball seems to be about some kind of anniversary now. Including Sterns 30th?

Anyway since I never married, I don't give a rats ass about any anniversary. So hopefully if and when they get past this nostalgia kick, they might resume with a more current theme.

That's both funny and not a bad idea!!!

I didn't miss that point, I agree with that point. Inclusion of an LCD in the lower model is trivial.

However, I feel it can also be used as a big differentiation point between lower and upper models. They have been using differentiators like that for years. It's why Daft Punk Multiball isn't on my Tron. The cost to add it would have also been trivial (actually slightly cheaper than having two code lines). But it was another thing to make the LE more special. I really think they will do the same with the LCD, even though it would be more expensive for them. It will help push customers to the higher level games.

Pinball collectors are so predictable.

I knew you were going to say that

c'mon.... Why so serious?

20160829_234031 (resized).jpg

At the rate NIB prices are skyrocketing, it's almost more economical to build your own custom game, and even hire out for some of the stuff you can't do on your own.

....then license the game to stern and have them build it.

New pinball...good stuff,
but on a side note does anyone remember when Gomez was doing a lecture back in 2011 (Transformers stuff) and he showed sketches of concepts he wanted for Batman The Dark Knight pin?
I'm pretty sure he had some-sort of spinning disk where three balls were captured and then spun out? I can't find the sketch online, but I'm almost positive there was more to what Gomez wanted on the TDK playfield then the "Coffee Can" section?

How many people willing to bet that the Special Super Limited Edition will have an Adam West signature on the translite?

I say translite and not the playfield because assuming Stern hasn't resolved the playfield quality issues with chipping and ghosting yet, it would be a risk having Adam West sign potential defective playfields and then need to sign replacement ones later.

Just an idea- im confident if there's a problem they would replace your playfield, but having a bunch of spare Adam West signed playfields wouldn't make sense either. Or maybe it would, I don't know. What I do know is John Trudeau is going to have to sign a lot of replacement GBLE playfields

I hope you are right as that means stern is doing the right thing!

Yes I definitely am confident they will. So far I've had a great experience with them and they are going to make it right. When they do, I'll have to find some room for this game if it plays good, because it seems like a very interesting theme. It just needs to be better then BTDK because I wasn't a fan of the layout and rules.

I know. My Internet humor button was broken.

rd

"The Pro is for poor people"

- Centerflank 2014

Maybe they are re-theming Twister.

What if they offer this premium for lower than normal? Everyone will be singing their praises because it's cheaper than regular premium msrp. Then they just never bring back the Pro. It would be a masterful way of raising your price on the lower model without having the backlash from customers. That's how I would do it if I was in charge and needed to raise prices.

totally agree and posted here

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sterns-game-release-history

August 2016 / Batman 66 / Pro - canned
August 2016 / Batman 66 / Premium (probably be the new Pro concept in 2017) / $
August 2016 / Batman 66 / LE (240 only) / $
August 2016 / Batman 66 / Super LE (30 only) / $

Kiss is way overdue for a update, imagine what will happen with a LCD game and they really need to solve the ghosting issues.

wonder if the pricing will be something like this
MSRP
Oct 2016 / B66 / Premium / $7750
Oct 2016 / B66 / LE / $9000
Oct 2016 / B66 / Super LE / $10000

Well, its almost the same thing as announcing a brand new crossbow mechanic never seen before, for TWD premium/LE, while ignoring that it was used in Austin Powers For information. I love my TWD Prem

Only one thing wrong with this theory ...

You don't move into a factory twice the size to make 75% less machines.

rd

This is simply not true. Lots of rich people buy pros. In many cases the pros are considered the better game by some. Faster, fewer unreliable components to have issues. Also, having money doesn't mean you don't value money. Actually it is usually the opposite. Clearly they "didn't get rich writing checks."

I will first want to see the machine and what it includes. To do a special 30 for your 30th aniversary is a good idea. The 240 LE's are limited but I think is ok for a theme like this. Batman 66 just does not appeal to me much....sorry. Maybe it is more an american thing or you just need to be older than me. I still have not forget the issues with my GBLE....they need to be fixed first.

spooky needs to bring in some outside design talent. Charlie and Ben are great guys, but you need someone with talent that's designed dozens of games to come up with a table that really captures the market. Spooky has been relying on the limited Le feature of their tables rather then the providing a blow away game experience. Stern has the talent and the commitment to providing a great gaming experience. JJP could certainly mix things up, with Pats game particularly if it standard body, which I belive it is. I have a feeling this will deliver the classic Bally/Williams vibe updated to 2016.

Agreed. The way you write implies a high education level as I had to look up some words. Very nicely stated....the bubble is coming.

Anybody have any idea if pics will be released today?

I partied w/Frank Gorshin in Hollywood right around the turn of the century.Its an awesome memory I'll never forget.I will think of it when I play this machine.

Funny and true.......Data East/Sega games now with LCD!!!Change is slow.

This one could not be downgraded to pro...

Just add 1k$ or more i think

Maybe a #wheresthepictures campaign would help.