(Topic ID: 167575)

Batman 66 by Stern new info


By GAP

4 years ago



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There are 7100 posts in this topic. You are on page 39 of 142.
#1901 4 years ago
Quoted from clg:

I really hope Homepin can start cranking games out from China at reasonable prices....

I have now lost hope in this happening. Imagine if Stern started getting games made at the Homepin factory. Would overseas markets see a discount? I'm guessing the company would be profiting from cheaper manufacturing costs and the consumer would still be paying the same amount.

Batman 66 would want to be jam packed. At best I predict it will be equivalent to TSPP and LOTR in regards to features.

#1902 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

What I don't get is Gary is always stating that the pinball industry would not be successful without operators and having pinballs on locations. So why would you not want to offer a reasonably priced pro machine that is built to stand up in a commercial environment to commemorate the operators that supported you for 30 years? Quite wasting time with building the Pin and the super boutique games and just serve the basic bread and butter that has kept Stern in business.

You need to stop looking at the business as "one game at a time". This is one game. If an operator wants a cheaper game for route, there are like 10 different titles with Pro models in production at the moment. This one game isn't being marketed for operators, they're targeting it at easily-manipulated rich guys with Batstolgia.

#1903 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

they're targeting it at easily-manipulated rich guys with Batstolgia.

I agree and I also think its a good thing, if I was into the show I would be in for a Pre or LE for sure, can't afford it or not into the theme then don't buy it, while I do feel prices are too high right now between new companies, Stern, the used market and there is a lot of stuff out there, Stern is giving people something they really want here and who knows the pin could be mind blowing, clips from the show and amazing gameplay etc. How the tune will change if thats the case, but this is why I love pinside.

-1
#1904 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This is one game. If an operator wants a cheaper game for route, there are like 10 different titles with Pro models in production at the moment.

It starts with one game like "the pin" and then moves towards the high dollar boutique game-really what's next? These little side projects for Stern are causing backorder issues for all their main pro premium/LE titles and also causing major quality control issues. They have too much on their plate with trying to run the pin version Spiderman, Spiderman Vault, MMR, GB, and all of the other current production titles, let alone a $15,000 boutique game. Like I said stick to the bread and butter that got them where they are. I honestly hope when your Ghostbusters Premium arrives that it is flaw free. It sucks to be on the receiving end of poor quality control because a company is too busy with too many projects.

#1905 4 years ago
Quoted from clg:

I really hope Homepin can start cranking games out from China at reasonable prices....

Quoted from ahdelarge:

Imagine if Stern started getting games made at the Homepin factory

I'd be content with seeing the initial title announced in mid 2013 actually enter production first, at the very least for the sake of those who prepaid.

#1906 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

These little side projects for Stern are causing backorder issues for all their main pro premium/LE titles and also causing major quality control issues. They have too much on their plate with trying to run the pin version Spiderman, Spiderman Vault, MMR, GB, and all of the other current production titles, let alone a $15,000 boutique game.

How do you figure that having too many projects is what's been to blame for the quality control issues?
Holy jumping to conclusions, Batman!

#1907 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

How do you figure that having too many projects is what's been to blame for the quality control issues?
Holy jumping to conclusions, Batman!

When Stern messes shit up big time on their main Pro Premium/LE models( GOT Premium/LE-Orbit, Ghostbusters Playfields, Side Rails, KISS decals.....I could go on and on and on) Yes any diversion of key resources will cause quality control issues. Look I am arguing the point that Stern is wasting their time producing "low" end pins and "high" end boutique pins. I am excited about Batman 66 just not keen on the SLE bullshit. Wish they were making a pro is all.

#1908 4 years ago
Quoted from clg:

To be fair to Stern they are not targeting this at operators with this game. They are after Iceman and his mates!

I agree, here's a recent pic of Iceman!

Burning-Money-cropped (resized).jpg

#1909 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I honestly hope when your Ghostbusters Premium arrives that it is flaw free.

"When" is starting to turn into "if".

#1910 4 years ago
Quoted from clg:

To be fair to Stern they are not targeting this at operators with this game. They are after Iceman and his mates!

There are certain operators and establishments out there who DO buy this stuff. I know of plenty LEs on location, and there's even two Big Bang Bars out there that I know of.

#1911 4 years ago
Quoted from chet218:

Didn't they say on a C2C podcast that essentially the right half of the playfield was identical to batman the dark knight. IMO you would really have to like that machine to pay those prices

Yes he did...the right side is basically the same. The different element is the on the left side (redesigned ramps, divertor?), also the crane has a cab on it with penguin in it. I bet money it will have 3d buildings like ghostbusters, which may interact with the crane like MM. So anyone telling you it's a totally different game is just spewing marketing hype.

Edit: We really shouldn't be surprised they've rehashed so many games, IM is said to be like Austin Powers, Sopranos is basically LOTR. TWD's crossbow borrowed from AP....etc...etc. However to rehash a game for the 30th is a bit of letdown. I think almost all potential buyers would have prefered a fresh design.

#1912 4 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

I agree, here's a recent pic of Iceman!

That definitely was me in Vegas last weekend.

I managed to lose a Batman and have nothing to show for it!

It's all coming to a head soon enough. People will get tired of buy $9k pins and selling them for $7k or less. That's when the party ends.

#1913 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

What I don't get is Gary is always stating that the pinball industry would not be successful without operators and having pinballs on locations. So why would you not want to offer a reasonably priced pro machine that is built to stand up in a commercial environment to commemorate the operators that supported you for 30 years? Quite wasting time with building the Pin and the super boutique games and just serve the basic bread and butter that has kept Stern in business.

Does anyone really place much stock in what he says?

#1914 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's all coming to a head soon enough. People will get tired of buy $9k pins and selling them for $7k or less. That's when the party ends.

...and the second hand party begins.

#1915 4 years ago

Lots of interesting thoughts here. Those prices are crazy, no matter how special the game.

I'm still is little bewildered that they are taking applications to buy a fifteen thousand dollar game. This is really happening?

#1916 4 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

He also states that more than 50% of their business is overseas ... and overseas customers / sellers / distributors are left to swing ........

I'm pretty sure more than 50% of Stern's sales are domestic. Numbers are more like this: 80% of overall sales to collectors, 98% of overseas sales are operators, so BM66 is geared to the domestic market.

#1917 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I'm pretty sure more than 50% of Stern's sales are domestic. Numbers are more like this: 80% of overall sales to collectors, 98% of overseas sales are operators, so BM66 is geared to the domestic market.

I think that you will find that 98% of the overseas market goes in to peoples homes.. collectors. We tried to get a BM66LE and missed out.

#1918 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That definitely was me in Vegas last weekend.
I managed to lose a Batman and have nothing to show for it!

Glad to know I'm not alone...usually survive Vegas, but back to back Cruises can be crushing in the casino if you get on a bad roll....tough to walk away on the ship...

#1919 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Edit: We really shouldn't be surprised they've rehashed so many games, IM is said to be like Austin Powers, Sopranos is basically LOTR. TWD's crossbow borrowed from AP....etc...etc. To rehash a game for the 30th is a bit of letdown. I think almost all potential buyers would have prefered a fresh design.

That's true. I wonder how long this game has been in development. There were rumors that Ghostbusters and GOT were supposed to have LCD screens and also that SMVE was done really quickly to give a little more time to work on Ghostbusters.

26
#1920 4 years ago

I found this funny.

twe (resized).JPG

#1921 4 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Premium Model: $US 8,599
Limited Edition Model: $US 9,999
Super Limited Edition Model: $US 14,999

Holy S*#t, and I though JJP was costly!

#1922 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Holy S*#t, and I though JJP was costly!

Yeah, and I bet even though there is an LCD I am willing to bet Stern's graphics and interface sucks compared to JJP's awesome animations and UI. That would be hilarious if their jump to LCD is just some half ass animated dots.

#1923 4 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

half ass animated dots.

Hey! I like dots.

I think it would be great if it was like a ColorDMD with different filters. That would be a let down though with the price they are at. Also they said they were using TV footage and that produces the worst dots.

22
#1924 4 years ago

My $$$ is going to Spooky & JJP's next games.

Shame on Stern for not stepping up/out and relieving the anxiety of those of us, who threw down big $$$ on GB. Just sweeping all the issues, for such a long time, and now "Hey buy my next Super Duper LE".... for those reasons; I'm out.

-1
#1925 4 years ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

My $$$ is going to Spooky & JJP's next games.
Shame on Stern for not stepping up/out and relieving the anxiety of those of us, who threw down big $$$ on GB. Just sweeping all the issues, for such a long time, and now "Hey buy my next Super Duper LE".... for those reasons; I'm out.

I dont like Sterns prices either and would like to see people stop buying their pins at these ridiculous prices, but have you seen JJP's prices? They are ridiculous also and I wouldn't buy a Spooky machine at any price, they are horrible imo.

-1
#1926 4 years ago

TDK is a turd and Gomez is ultra overrated.

#1927 4 years ago

These prices are just plain stupid. (period)

#1928 4 years ago

They are only stupid if they don't sell and it's clear they are going to sell out. Stern is a business that has a lot of operating capital so raising extra cash like this is a no brainer. Also it's an anniversary both of stern and batman so let's not base the entire future of their strategy on just this one machine. In my mind it shows how great pinball is as a hobby that even without seeing the machine people are willing to buy on faith - why is that? Well basically because last few machines stern put out absolutely rocked the house - yes the playfield issues are a concern but will be resolved I'm sure. If you can't afford these NIB then just wait because they come down in price. I've ordered an LE and am looking forward to it!

#1929 4 years ago

Stern should give these away at the end of this year's Expo factory tour...

Pinball Machine (resized).jpg

#1930 4 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

He also states that more than 50% of their business is overseas ... and overseas customers / sellers / distributors are left to swing ........

If this goes on there will be no overseas business any more. I know round about a dozen "I'll buy any new Stern pin" guys that used to be in on just about any release. The interest has slowed down significantly since GoT and the general attitude towards BM66 is extremely negative, not nearly as mixed as in the states. I don't know anyone even remotely interested in buying it which is a first.

You need to take into account that in general people in Europe react much more sensitive to manipulative marketing strategies like artificial scarcity.

#1931 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

People will get tired of buy $9k pins and selling them for $7k or less. That's when the party ends.

Who cares?

You're not buying it for an investment!

#1932 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont like Sterns prices either and would like to see people stop buying their pins at these ridiculous prices, but have you seen JJP's prices? They are ridiculous also and I wouldn't buy a Spooky machine at any price, they are horrible imo.

IMHO JJP off sets their prices by quality vs quantity and then there is their whole 1 year warranty as opposed to Stern's 60 day warranty. Yes they had a a few hiccups with their first pin, but have since resolved them and are what a NIB should be like. Not a fan a boy and do not own a WOZ or TH, but I will when I get back from deployment. At least I know my play field will not fall apart or be subject to Stern's judgement if they decide to honor their Warranty with their "Case by Case" basis.

#1933 4 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

IMHO JJP off sets their prices by quality vs quantity and then there is their whole 1 year warranty as opposed to Stern's 60 day warranty. Yes they had a a few hiccups with their first pin, but have since resolved them and are what a NIB should be like. Not a fan a boy and do not own a WOZ or TH, but I will when I get back from deployment. At least I know my play field will not fall apart or be subject to Stern's judgement if they decide to honor their Warranty with their "Case by Case" basis.

Ive never played a JJP machine but I hear they are good quality and I don't doubt that a bit. I think Stern makes a great machine also except for the playfields here lately which I believe will be fixed soon if they havent been already. They have no choice but to fix the problem or theyll go under. I do believe that the playfield should have a 1 year warranty for sure, especially for a HUO machine. There is a reason why people love Stern machines, but they arent too big to fail either and they better realize that. They also better keep the prices down so the average Joe can afford them, because the rich guy alone isn't going to keep them in business.

11
#1934 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

have you seen JJP's prices?

umm...JJP is now cheaper than Stern. That's the amazing part. Gomez said the new LCD is gonna be a 15 inch and, I'm a fan of a smaller LCD screen, but it'll be hard to justify this price increase when JJP and Heighway are making pins with that huge screen in the backbox at a cheaper price.

I really hope the Alien reveal is great at Expo. It would be nice to see them steal a little thunder from Stern.

#1935 4 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

I really hope the Alien reveal is great at Expo. It would be nice to see them steal a little thunder from Stern.

I'm waiting for that and JJPs Lawlor reveal...just hope Jack doesn't jack his prices up now after seeing Stern's new ridonkulous prices.

#1936 4 years ago

We just have to wait and see. I think this is good for the second hand market. Some people say that older machines from bally williams era will be less valued next year as there are so many new machines to buy, but against these prices, i am not worried about the value of my older machines. People still want to own a pinball machine, not all can cough up 8K-15K for a NIB. recent issues also show that not everybody will want to buy at that price. Stern is looking hwat flex there is in their pricing. I expect a line of machines to serve the lower market. Stern/Dutch/JJP can not all build only supercars, there will be a manufacturer that will see that cheaper machines do sell faster.

#1937 4 years ago

not the case in Australia as recently most 90's Bally / WMS game have shot up $1k or even more, good if want to sell, bad if you are after one.

#1938 4 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

I have now lost hope in this happening. Imagine if Stern started getting games made at the Homepin factory. Would overseas markets see a discount? I'm guessing the company would be profiting from cheaper manufacturing costs and the consumer would still be paying the same amount.
Batman 66 would want to be jam packed. At best I predict it will be equivalent to TSPP and LOTR in regards to features.

Surely Trump won't allow this. But hopefully he will visit the Stern factory to highlight the demand for US products even when prices double

#1939 4 years ago

Are the factory shipped balls still made of solid silver?

Why not switch to a cheaper metal?

#1940 4 years ago

What Stern should have done to commemorate it's 30 year anniversary is to give its loyal patrons a reasonably priced machine with three options-Good, Better, Best. This is nothing more than a greedy money grabbing move that also includes a three ring circus act for advertising. Yes Stern will sell 30 "Special Limited Editions" to wealthy fanboys but how many other people will they piss off in the process.

They should have priced them reasonable for their core customer base. They probably could sell considerably more units and make a higher profit margin than if they just sell Premiums, and LE's at a high map price...

Pro-$4495 (currently being called premium)
Premium-$5995 (currently being called LE)
LE-400 units(200 of each style) split-So oversees customers don't get the short end of the stick.-$7595 (currently being called Super LE)

#1941 4 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

Who cares? You're not buying it for an investment!

Agree 100% about the investment part, but part of the reason I'll spend the price of a pinball machine is that they hold their value better than the purchases from my other hobbies. If the NIB price is way over inflated, I won't step up to enjoy the NIB price because it's not worth the price of the loss to me. I'll let someone else take the depreciation and buy it used.

#1942 4 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

If the NIB price is way over inflated, I won't step up to enjoy the NIB price because it's not worth the price

Yea don't forget about Sterns new price fixing policy with map pricing-no more "deals". This is going to hamper future sales because everyone will be forced to pay full retail. I will not pay retail-I will wait for a nice HUO and let someone else take the hit.

#1943 4 years ago

Blame rich people all you want. Its fashionable to do so these days and be sure to also call them stupid.

Its the struggling middle class with the "Keep up with the Jones" mentality to blame. The "spend now, the future will take care of itself" generations will be right in the middle of all of this. And that is a much larger issue than our little hobby.

#1944 4 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I'll let someone else take the depreciation and buy it used.

Quoted from pinmister:

I will not pay retail-I will wait for a nice HUO and let someone else take the hit.

I agree with this 100% but this situation will lead to less games and increased demand in the secondary market. In the end the price you will have to pay for the machine will stay the same.

Man, Gary really has you by the balls, no way to escape!

I'm stating "you" and not "us" because I enjoy the games from before 2010 just as much as the newer ones, if not more. I like to play some games on them when visiting friends, but at home I prefer a more "original" retro arcade feel. The humor of WPC95s and the toy loaded WPCs is what i love most about pinball.

11
#1945 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Blame rich people all you want. Its fashionable to do so

Charles please make sure and order the pinball "Armor" for my $15,000 Super LE, I want to make sure to keep it pristine so I can sell it after Stern's contractual agreement expires. Oh and please pass the-"Grey Poupon"

grey-poupon.jpg

#1946 4 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

They are only stupid if they don't sell and it's clear they are going to sell out. Stern is a business that has a lot of operating capital so raising extra cash like this is a no brainer. Also it's an anniversary both of stern and batman so let's not base the entire future of their strategy on just this one machine. In my mind it shows how great pinball is as a hobby that even without seeing the machine people are willing to buy on faith - why is that? Well basically because last few machines stern put out absolutely rocked the house - yes the playfield issues are a concern but will be resolved I'm sure. If you can't afford these NIB then just wait because they come down in price. I've ordered an LE and am looking forward to it!

Yeah... yeah... this is the common arguement that's put out there. And as Stern continues to go for broke, my eyes glaze over every time I read it.

As for your comment about "if you can't afford to buy" followed by "I've ordered an LE." You've got to be kidding me, man. You do realize that someone's decision to pay or not to pay stern an obnoxious price for their version of a pinball machine might have absolutely zero to do with what they can "afford." Perhaps the sane thing is to (1) actually see and handle the item you're about to drop $8k - $10k on and (2) do more than hope that some nasty little manufacturing issues have been magically solved.

At this juncture, buyers going in on Batman 66 are completely waiving their rights to bitch about code, cheap parts, manufacturing defects, Sterns use of an LCD, and how Stern treats them post sale. The story of the last 6 months or so is still being written.

#1947 4 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

Who cares?
You're not buying it for an investment!

I don't care.

That's why i turned back my RZ spot instead of trying to sell it for a profit.

It's been a long run of people being able to buy pins and sell them for "mas or menos" the original price and not have to worry about getting hit hard on the future sale.

Many other people are going to care as they buy these $8k plus pins and try and sell them a year later, for 10-20% less. Nib buyers might get a little more picky at that point.

Either way its a great hobby for any type of buyer and pinball enthusiast. Fun factor is off the charts. How much is that worth? A 10-20% discount off of a Nib theme you love? For me it is.

So i guess Stern will always have dummies like me to push their pinball drug to.

#1948 4 years ago

The pricing reflects what the market is willing to pay, however it is still a relatively small market, in terms of volume. Stern is not turning into a boutique high end producer anytime soon. Regardless of how big the margin is on a $15k or even 10k pin the overall profit pales compared to the volume they sell with their 5k pros. Stern has taken this root with batman 66 because let's be completely honest here, and maybe I'm reading this wrong as an Australian buyer, but seriously batman 66 does not have anywhere near the fan base or relevance of gb or GOT or even TWD. They have created a super high priced limited run product because that is what the license ditacted. There is no pro model because frankly there is such a limited demand for this title that there is no market for a pro. Operators would not be lining up to purchase pro batman 66 nor would the majority of HUO buyers. They know they would only sell a thousand or so machine regardless, so why not milk every cent they can from those thousand buyers. You may see this happen in the future with license that have dedicated but niche fan bases. If this is the case then that is great for the hobby and for people that want to own their grail theme. However when it comes to massive themes with proper appeal I.e Starwars there is no way Stern is going to loose 3-4-5 thousand pro sales by over pricing. The income and profit they make on those pro sales still far outstrips the money they make on Le or even super Le machines by factors of 100s. Do you really think stern could survive if they only sold 500 or so of every new title? Hell no, not even at 10k a machine. This is a big company with major overheads that has just moved into a new larger manufacturing facility, they are not going botique anytime soon.

The deal is that stern has probably been under pricing there main product line being Pro models for a couple of years, as they where still in survival mode mentality. So yes the new pro price will probably be 6k going forward, however you should get a lot more for your money as far as feature and toys go I.e GB. The high priced Le's are just Stern taking money thats sitting on the table. All the whinging regarding these systems come from people who see these as collectible investments or money making oppertunities. For fuck sake do you think guys that pay 15K or even 10k for a pinball machine are buying them as an investment or give a shit about the resale value. This is disposable money they have and choose to spend it on something they percive will give them enjoyment and fun. Most of the people bitching about not being able to own a 10k Stern are in fact liers, almost everyone that makes this comment would have multiple pinball machines in their collection with a combined worth well in excess of 10k. So yes you could afford a 10k or even a 15k machine but it would mean selling other tables which is not something you are prepared to do , hey me neither, so who give a shit. However all of us have a grail theme that might have a very narrow limited appeal, that means enough for us to trade 2-3 of our collection to own. That what batman 66 is.

I had to laugh listening to the latest podcast from he who must not be named today bitching and crying about the batman 66 pricing, the guy makes fun and ridiculed everyone else on this site that has a complaint then spends 30minutes crying over super Le prices. You know why, because he realised hey I can't make money on buying a 10k limited edition batman like He originally key planed. He also goes onto say that he would jump at the oppertunity to buy a batman Super Le if he hot the chance. The only reason? Because he know he could flip it for more money down the line, for fuck sake it makes me shake my head, this hobby is meant to be about having fun and playing games guys. Guess what PINBALL is not a designed to make you money, STERN is not in the business of making you money. If you spend 10k or 5k on a new toy for your home, be prepared to loose 20 or 30% of the value when you come to sell in the future and yes be happy it is only such a small percentage. The whole market has been totally skewed in the last 5 years when people think that they should be able to buy a pinball machine and then sell it for more then they paid a year or two later. This is not normal in ANY hobby and you know what it just destroys the whole fundementals of the hobby for everyone. Yes a game from 20 years ago might be worth more now then it was nib but that's 20 years of accumulated worth and rarity. Someone trying to sell their orginal Spider-Man or POTC or SPP for thousands more then they paid less then 5 years ago and thinks this is the norm, is delusional if they belive this will be the status quo forever. Bally williams went under that is why classic tables are worth more now then 20 years ago, it's like when an artist dies and his works sky rocket. Buying a new stern is not the same deal.

My advice is don't worry so much 90% of the people having a go in this thread really couldn't give two shits about batman 66 as a theme regardless of the price point and the other 10% either have enough money not to worry or are die hard fans. Really every ones a winner baby that's the truth.

#1949 4 years ago
Quoted from SimonBaird:

Operators would not be lining up to purchase pro batman 66 nor would the majority of HUO buyers.

I disagree with this statement. With the LCD and a new layout and what I consider to be the funnest toy in pinball-"The Crane." The Pro model if priced in the mid 4's would have been very successful. Batman in general is huge and the nostalgic Batman series is well known. I think it would be a top earner at many locations for operators with the attraction of Batman and the new LCD.

11
#1950 4 years ago

I know stern has priced me and many others i know out . Not bc the price per say but the price for what you get just isnt worth it. There are so many other options that are cheaper/or equal and offer alot more and are not cheaped out. I really thought the pros for 5k and premiums for around 6500 were a good price point for what u get .

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